Why are Bible scholars leaving Christianity?

[gpresdo]

Cause and effect.
Good works are the result of a renewed relationship with God, not the cause.
We can pile up all the wood, hay, and stubble (fleshly works) we like, but it won't save us.

I doubt those represent works desired by God.
Un notable distinction...for sure.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Cause and effect.
Good works are the result of a renewed relationship with God, not the cause.
We can pile up all the wood, hay, and stubble (fleshly works) we like, but it won't save us.

I doubt those represent works desired by God.
Un notable distinction...for sure.

That was my point. (fleshly works)

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
What is your definition of repentance?
Repentance is not a result of baptism.
The only thing required after getting wet is to towel off. - LOL

The Bible defines repentance ...not me.
If you don't know what that is..... study scriptures. If you need help know.

Baptism is required for sin forgiveness.

Read the Bible scriptures pertaining to baptism...already posted. Maybe u did not see them.

Such a cop-out response.
I ask for your definition of repentance, because it appears you don't have one.
Your response, "The Bible defines repentance ...not me.
If you don't know what that is..... study scriptures." - LOL
And regarding baptism, "Read the Bible scriptures pertaining to baptism..." - COP-OUT

 

[Gottservant]

Luke 13:24 "Strive to enter by the narrow gate, for many will try but will not be able"

I think we need to pray for their souls, but hand their name over to the Devil (that they learn not to attack the faith).

"We look ahead at that which is to come" Paul (from memory).

 

[St. SteVen]

Luke 13:24 "Strive to enter by the narrow gate, for many will try but will not be able"

What a terrible thing. Hopefully bad translation is to blame.
God making sport of human souls. A high-stakes game nearly impossible to win.
What an ugly situation.

 

[gpresdo]

St. SteVen said:
What is your definition of repentance?
Repentance is not a result of baptism.
The only thing required after getting wet is to towel off. - LOL

Such a cop-out response.
I ask for your definition of repentance, because it appears you don't have one.
Your response, "The Bible defines repentance ...not me.
If you don't know what that is..... study scriptures." - LOL
And regarding baptism, "Read the Bible scriptures pertaining to baptism..." - COP-OUT

Are you for real.....God sets a standard of His commandment...not me or you.
I am waiting for yours?

 

[St. SteVen]

Are you for real.....God sets a standard of His commandment...not me or you.
I am waiting for yours?

If it's "not me or you.", then it's not me. (or you)
What are you waiting for?

 

[keithr]

What a terrible thing. Hopefully bad translation is to blame.
God making sport of human souls. A high-stakes game nearly impossible to win.
What an ugly situation.

It's not a bad translation, and God is not making a sport of it - God is very patient. We are in the appointed time of sacrifice, and this appointed time has been ongoing for nearly 2,000 years, but eventually it will end. Read the verse in context - Luke 13:24-25 (WEB):

(24) “Strive to enter in by the narrow door, for many, I tell you, will seek to enter in, and will not be able.​

(25) When once the master of the house has risen up, and has shut the door, and you begin to stand outside, and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ then he will answer and tell you, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’​

Eventually the appointed time of sacrifice will end, with the resurrection and rapture of the church. At that time the door will have been shut and people will no longer have the opportunity to become the sons of God and members of the body of Christ:

John 1:12 (KJV):

(12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:​

1 Corinthians 12:27 (WEB):

(27) Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.​

Romans 12:1 (WEB):

(1) Therefore I urge you, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service.​

 

[keithr]

The Bible defines repentance ...not me.

The Bible uses the word repent, it doesn't define it - it's not a dictionary!

In the Greek it's metanoeo, which the Online Bible Greek Lexicon describes as:

1) to change one’s mind, i.e. to repent​

2) to change one’s mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one’s past sins​

Stong's Greek Lexicon says it means:

to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction): — repent.​

and says that metanoeo comes from the Geek words meta and noieo which mean 'afterward' and 'understand, perceive, consider'.

Dictionary defintions of the word repent:

To feel such regret or dissatisfaction over as to change one's mind about.​

1. to feel sorry, self-reproachful, or contrite for past conduct; regret or be conscience-stricken about a past action, attitude, etc. (often followed by of): He repented after his thoughtless act.
2. to feel such sorrow for sin or fault as to be disposed to change one's life for the better; be penitent.

 

[St. SteVen]

Read the verse in context - Luke 13:24-25 (WEB):

(24) “Strive to enter in by the narrow door, for many, I tell you, will seek to enter in, and will not be able.(25) When once the master of the house has risen up, and has shut the door, and you begin to stand outside, and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ then he will answer and tell you, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’

This is a very strange passage. It appears to have been assembled from other parts.

It mentions a narrow door, but with no comparison. As opposed to what?
Even says "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door..." - NIV

 

[keithr]

It mentions a narrow door, but with no comparison. As opposed to what?

Luke 13:24 (KJV):

(24) Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.​

Strive , or struggle to enter the narrow or strait gate/door, i.e. it is a difficult to get through gate/door, but we should make the effort to do so, before the gate/door is permanently closed. As Jesus said in Matthew 7:13-14 (WEB):

(13) “Enter in by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter in by it.​

(14) How narrow is the gate, and restricted is the way that leads to life! Few are those who find it.​

or ESV:

(13) “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.​

(14) For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.​

See also John 10:1-15 (WEB):

(1) “Most certainly, I tell you, one who doesn’t enter by the door into the sheep fold, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.​

(2) But one who enters in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.​

(3) The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name, and leads them out.​

(4) Whenever he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.​

(5) They will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him; for they don’t know the voice of strangers.”​

(6) Jesus spoke this parable to them, but they didn’t understand what he was telling them.​

(7) Jesus therefore said to them again, “Most certainly, I tell you, I am the sheep’s door.​

(8) All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep didn’t listen to them.​

(9) I am the door. If anyone enters in by me, he will be saved, and will go in and go out, and will find pasture.​

(10) The thief only comes to steal, kill, and destroy. I came that they may have life, and may have it abundantly.​

(11) I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.​

(12) He who is a hired hand, and not a shepherd, who doesn’t own the sheep, sees the wolf coming, leaves the sheep, and flees. The wolf snatches the sheep, and scatters them.​

(13) The hired hand flees because he is a hired hand, and doesn’t care for the sheep.​

(14) I am the good shepherd. I know my own, and I’m known by my own;​

(15) even as the Father knows me, and I know the Father. I lay down my life for the sheep.​

 

[gpresdo]

The Bible uses the word repent, it doesn't define it - it's not a dictionary!

In the Greek it's metanoeo, which the Online Bible Greek Lexicon describes as:

1) to change one’s mind, i.e. to repent​

2) to change one’s mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one’s past sins​

Stong's Greek Lexicon says it means:usly

to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction): — repent.​

and says that metanoeo comes from the Geek words meta and noieo which mean 'afterward' and 'understand, perceive, consider'.

Dictionary defintions of the word repent:

To feel such regret or dissatisfaction over as to change one's mind about.​

1. to feel sorry, self-reproachful, or contrite for past conduct; regret or be conscience-stricken about a past action, attitude, etc. (often followed by of): He repented after his thoughtless act.
2. to feel such sorrow for sin or fault as to be disposed to change one's life for the better; be penitent.

Geesch...I can't believe this;...
The Bible sets forth the meaning of God's commandment to repent...thusly;

We must humbly present ourselves before God and request forgiveness of our trespasses in Jesus name.
Then we must be water baptized...full body submersion... thereby acknowledging Christ as our Savior.
We are then born again.

What do you mean........ the Bible does not set forth a standard of God;s commandment?
It is contained in the Lord's prayer.
Sometimes I wonder if some have even read the Bible!!!

 

[gpresdo]

The Bible uses the word repent, it doesn't define it - it's not a dictionary!

In the Greek it's metanoeo, which the Online Bible Greek Lexicon describes as:

1) to change one’s mind, i.e. to repent​

2) to change one’s mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one’s past sins​

Stong's Greek Lexicon says it means:

to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction): — repent.​

and says that metanoeo comes from the Geek words meta and noieo which mean 'afterward' and 'understand, perceive, consider'.

Dictionary defintions of the word repent:

To feel such regret or dissatisfaction over as to change one's mind about.​

1. to feel sorry, self-reproachful, or contrite for past conduct; regret or be conscience-stricken about a past action, attitude, etc. (often followed by of): He repented after his thoughtless act.
2. to feel such sorrow for sin or fault as to be disposed to change one's life for the better; be penitent.

PS...wrong the Bible is all things related to righteousness....far beyond a man's dictionary, I submit. I will trust IT before any other reference manual.

 

[gpresdo]

The Bible uses the word repent, it doesn't define it - it's not a dictionary!

In the Greek it's metanoeo, which the Online Bible Greek Lexicon describes as:

1) to change one’s mind, i.e. to repent​

2) to change one’s mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one’s past sins​

Stong's Greek Lexicon says it means:

to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction): — repent.​

and says that metanoeo comes from the Geek words meta and noieo which mean 'afterward' and 'understand, perceive, consider'.

Dictionary defintions of the word repent:

To feel such regret or dissatisfaction over as to change one's mind about.​

1. to feel sorry, self-reproachful, or contrite for past conduct; regret or be conscience-stricken about a past action, attitude, etc. (often followed by of): He repented after his thoughtless act.
2. to feel such sorrow for sin or fault as to be disposed to change one's life for the better; be penitent.

I can't believe you want to apply man's definition rather than God's.
That's a new one.

 

[St. SteVen]

Luke 13:24 (KJV):
(24) Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

Strive , or struggle to enter the narrow or strait gate/door, i.e. it is a difficult to get through gate/door, but we should make the effort to do so, before the gate/door is permanently closed.

Very strange.
Struggle to get through the narrow door. Requires work (works) to enter.
Many, it says, will seek to enter, but will not be able. The willing, therefore, are prevented. Why?
Seems Calvinist, only worse. Salvation attained by the hard work struggle to squeeze through a narrow opening. ???

What happened to lavish grace? And whosoever will may come?
Nowhere to be found in this passage. Something very wrong here.

 

[face2face]

The Lord’s teaching culminated in the “golden rule” , as to what is necessary to enter the kingdom.

So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

It is now a question of our choice! Deut 30:19; Jer 21:8.

The Narrow Way comprises of a choice which is emphasized in three parables:

• Two Ways – cp Old Testament Figures – Prov 4:18-19
• Two Trees – cp Old Testament Figures – Jer 17:5-8
• Two Houses – cp Old Testament Figures – Prov 9:1 – Vv13-14

“Enter” - positive choice! compare Luke 13:24 “strive to enter”. Greek: “agonize” – the choice is clear, but great effort needed.

“Strait” - Greek: “made narrower”, “squeezed up”, i.e. by all the obstacles.
“Wide” - “spread out”.
“Broad” - “expansive”. “wide is the gate, roomy the way”.
“The Way” - “which wicked men have trodden” Job 22:15-17, “way of Cain” Jude 11.

@St. SteVen many enter the wide gate, few even find the narrow one! Of the few, fewer still can get in!! cp Luke 13:24

That is why your loose words and flippant approach to the Word of God, your faith & hope cannot find it....for now!

F2F

 

[keithr]

The Bible sets forth the meaning of God's commandment to repent...thusly;

We must humbly present ourselves before God and request forgiveness of our trespasses in Jesus name.

Repenting and asking for forgiveness are two different things. First you repent, then you ask God for His forgiveness.

The first step for all sinners is to repent, that is, to be genuinely sorrow for their sins and change their plans and ways to cease sinning. Next they should pray to God for forgiveness of their sins, asking in and through the merit of Jesus' sacrifice of his life on the cross. If they regret their sins and desire to forsake sinning, then their prayers will be heard. Then they should seek to be baptised in water in Jesus' name.

For example, Act 8:22 (WEB):

(22) Repent therefore of this, your wickedness, and ask God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.​

Psalm 66:18 (WEB):

(18) If I cherished sin in my heart, the Lord wouldn’t have listened.​

 

[keithr]

Many, it says, will seek to enter, but will not be able. The willing, therefore, are prevented. Why?

The narrow way is a way of sacrifice and tribulation. Jesus said to his disciples, John 16:33 (ESV):

(33) ... In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.”​

So some may choose to not try or to give up (bringing it back to the subject of this thread!). Also, as mentioned, some may want to enter but it will be too late - they can go on to become the 'tribulation saints':

Revelation 7:14-17 (WEB):

(14) I told him, “My lord, you know.” He said to me, “These are those who came out of the great tribulation. They washed their robes, and made them white in the Lamb’s blood.​

(15) Therefore they are before the throne of God, they serve him day and night in his temple. He who sits on the throne will spread his tabernacle over them.​

(16) They will never be hungry, neither thirsty any more; neither will the sun beat on them, nor any heat;​

(17) for the Lamb who is in the middle of the throne shepherds them, and leads them to springs of life-giving waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”​

Why do they have tears that God wipes away? Perhaps because of their sadness at not entering through the door/gate while it was open, so they missed out on becoming members of the body of Christ and sharing his inheritance. They will then have a clear understanding on what they missed out on.

What happened to lavish grace? And whosoever will may come?
Nowhere to be found in this passage. Something very wrong here.

Making the effort to become a Christian is not that hard, although many people resist doing so for years. People tend to not like changing lifestyle or loosing freedoms, which they think becoming a Christian involves.

 

[St. SteVen]

The narrow way is a way of sacrifice and tribulation.

Works religion promoted in the Bible?

 

[Jim C]

The narrow path is to love God and reject the world. Too many people are too wrapped up in the world and do not want to let go of their worldly pleasures and interests.
"A man cannot serve two masters."