Why are Bible scholars leaving Christianity?

[St. SteVen]

The narrow path is to love God and reject the world. Too many people are too wrapped up in the world and do not want to let go of their worldly pleasures and interests.
"A man cannot serve two masters."

Does that lead to salvation?

What sorts of things would you list as "worldly pleasures and interests"?

 

[keithr]

What sorts of things would you list as "worldly pleasures and interests"?

How about watching a football game rather than going to church?

 

[keithr]

Works religion promoted in the Bible?

Suffering tribulation is not works. Sacrificing your will in order to conform to God's will is not really works either; as Paul said, it is reasonable service - Romans 12:1-2 (KJV):

(1) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.​

(2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.​

 

[St. SteVen]

How about watching a football game rather than going to church?

How's the attendance at your church?
No wonder we have a mass exodus from church.
Ridiculous expectations.

Hopefully you were joking.

 

[Lambano]

How about watching a football game rather than going to church?

I grew up in Colorado. It was very well documented that on Sunday mornings when the Denver Broncos had a road game in the 11 A.M. television slot, church attendance would drop. Some churches adjusted their worship schedules on those days, but woe to the preacher whose sermon ran too long!

Definitely idolatry.

 

[St. SteVen]

I grew up in Colorado. It was very well documented that on Sunday mornings when the Denver Broncos had a road game in the 11 A.M. television slot, church attendance would drop. Some churches adjusted their worship schedules on those days, but woe to the preacher whose sermon ran too long!

Definitely idolatry.

Idolatry?
Doesn't this call into question the importance, or relevance of corporate worship?
I'm a weekly attender, but I don't criticize those who don't attend. They have their reasons.
And I don't don't watch sports, so I don't need to grapple with that issue.
If I am sick at home on a Sunday (very rare), I can watch service online.
Those who work Sundays can watch during the week and attend other groups during the week.

.

 

[Lambano]

Doesn't this call into question the importance, or relevance of corporate worship?

Interesting point. When I was growing up, that hour on Sunday morning was THE point that formed and defined our corporate identity. A few years back, our pastor sent around some article showing that for Millennials and the younger generation in general (and I’m officially an old fart), corporate worship is definitely NOT high on their priority list for Christian identity.

This begs the question, if it’s not corporate worship and it’s not doctrine, what DOES hold us together? What DOES define our group identity as the Corpus Christi, the Body of Christ?

(I should’ve paid more attention in school to those fuzzy-studies course about human group dynamics.)

 

[St. SteVen]

Interesting point. When I was growing up, that hour on Sunday morning was THE point that formed and defined our corporate identity. A few years back, our pastor sent around some article showing that for Millennials and the younger generation in general (and I’m officially an old fart), corporate worship is definitely NOT high on their priority list for Christian identity.

This begs the question, if it’s not corporate worship and it’s not doctrine, what DOES hold us together? What DOES define our group identity as the Corpus Christi, the Body of Christ?

(I should’ve paid more attention in school to those fuzzy-studies course about human group dynamics.)

The church of the open door is becoming the church in the fast lane. In following the direction of culture in other areas of consumer goods (yes, church is a consumer product), I thought we needed to have a drive-up window for ministry-on-the-go. - LOL

The Pandemic demonstrated what we need to face as a church. I was happy to get back to corporate worship.
The together aspect is important to me. But understand that not everyone feels that way.
The upside was that churches that didn't have online services were forced to develop that service. (or perish)
Enter the perishing parish. - LOL

Not sure if folks heard my Pandemic song or not.

https://soundcloud.com/user-426611522%2Fthat-thing-goin-round-special-thanks-to-andrea-rk-and-aaron-g
Title: That Thing Goin' 'Round
(special thanks to Andrea, RK and Aaron G)
Track Time: 06:00 Tempo: 135 BPM

VS 1
Have you heard about it -
COVID-19 goin' 'round?
Seems to be spreadin' -
all over town

Hard to keep from gettin' -
you down
That corona virus -
has been given a crown

Have you heard about (it)
that thing goin' 'round? (2x)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
CH
Have you heard 'bout it?
That thing goin' 'round
Across the sea - over hill and dale
Target-ing - both strong and frail
Challenges that we all share
Soon will be found everywhere
Have you heard about
that thing goin' 'round?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

VS 2
Have you heard about it -
that virus goin' 'round?
Gotta keep your distance
or you're goin' down

Cover your mouth
and wash your hands
That's the news
across the land

Have you heard about
that thing goin' 'round?

CHORUS

VS 3
Have you heard about it -
shortages goin' 'round?
The world ran out of toilet rolls,
hand sanitizer and pasta to boil

The store shelves are empty
but the parking lot is full
Infection rates are rising
as the stock markets fall

Have you heard about
that thing goin' 'round?

CHORUS

VS 4
Have you heard about it -
isolation goin' 'round?
Can't go to the office -
they're all closed down

Caught on camera
helping folks who need ya
As evidence trending now
on social media

Have you heard about
that thing goin' 'round?

CHORUS/ending -- slower
We're now in a downward spiral
I hope at least this song goes viral

And if we're brought down to our knees
don't forget to look up please

Take care of the ones you love
We'll survive with some help from above

Have you heard about
that thing goin' 'round?


© Steve Lundgren 2020
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

.

 

[gpresdo]

Repenting and asking for forgiveness are two different things. First you repent, then you ask God for His forgiveness.

The first step for all sinners is to repent, that is, to be genuinely sorrow for their sins and change their plans and ways to cease sinning. Next they should pray to God for forgiveness of their sins, asking in and through the merit of Jesus' sacrifice of his life on the cross. If they regret their sins and desire to forsake sinning, then their prayers will be heard. Then they should seek to be baptised in water in Jesus' name.

For example, Act 8:22 (WEB):

(22) Repent therefore of this, your wickedness, and ask God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.​

Psalm 66:18 (WEB):

(18) If I cherished sin in my heart, the Lord wouldn’t have listened.​

Not scriptural....Repentance of sin is request for forgiveness.

 

[gpresdo]

The Bible uses the word repent, it doesn't define it - it's not a dictionary!

In the Greek it's metanoeo, which the Online Bible Greek Lexicon describes as:

1) to change one’s mind, i.e. to repent​

2) to change one’s mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one’s past sins​

Stong's Greek Lexicon says it means:

to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction): — repent.​

and says that metanoeo comes from the Geek words meta and noieo which mean 'afterward' and 'understand, perceive, consider'.

Dictionary defintions of the word repent:

To feel such regret or dissatisfaction over as to change one's mind about.​

1. to feel sorry, self-reproachful, or contrite for past conduct; regret or be conscience-stricken about a past action, attitude, etc. (often followed by of): He repented after his thoughtless act.
2. to feel such sorrow for sin or fault as to be disposed to change one's life for the better; be penitent.

OH yes it does....I sited it.
The Bible tells us God's standard of all His commandments.

I urge u to study the KJV 1611 edition of the Bible.

 

[keithr]

Not scriptural....Repentance of sin is request for forgiveness.

Well I did quote a couple of verses of Scripture to support what I had written, so I think it is Scriptural! How about some more, e.g. Exodus 32:14 (WEB):

(14) Yahweh repented of the evil which he said he would do to his people.​

or if you prefer the KJV:

(14) And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.​

So did God request forgiveness from Himself?

Or how about Acts 20:21 (KJV):

(21) Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.​

Or as other translations put it:

YLT:

(21) testifying fully both to Jews and Greeks, toward God reformation, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.​

LSV:

(21) testifying fully both to Jews and Greeks, conversion toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.​

GNB:

(21) To Jews and Gentiles alike I gave solemn warning that they should turn from their sins to God and believe in our Lord Jesus.​

God doesn't want people to just ask for forgiveness, He wants them to change their ways and stop sinning. Romans 12:2 (WEB):

(2) Don’t be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what is the good, well-pleasing, and perfect will of God.​

 

[keithr]

OH yes it does....I sited it.
The Bible tells us God's standard of all His commandments.

I urge u to study the KJV 1611 edition of the Bible.

I've not read it all, but perhaps you should read the discussion The Bible teaches repentance unto confession, not confession unto repentance.

 

[Lambano]

I thought we needed to have a drive-up window for ministry-on-the-go.

Like these guys?

 

[St. SteVen]

Like these guys?

YES!!!

I wonder what sort of response they got with that.

Someone driving by that would NEVER come to church (inside the building for Sunday service)
might consider stopping at a drive-up window to get prayer for issue they are beside themselves about.
Or just out of curiosity, our hunger for the FREE coffee and donuts. - LOL

/

 

[St. SteVen]

YES!!!

I wonder what sort of response they got with that.

Someone driving by that would NEVER come to church (inside the building for Sunday service)
might consider stopping at a drive-up window to get prayer for issue they are beside themselves about.
Or just out of curiosity, our hunger for the FREE coffee and donuts. - LOL

/

@Lambano
I did a search to find the church. The Pastor's name is on the sign.
They are located near Durham/Raleigh, North Carolina.

I sent the Pastor an email asking about the response to the Drive Thru window. - LOL

/

 

[Lambano]

Someone driving by that would NEVER come to church (inside the building for Sunday service)
might consider stopping at a drive-up window to get prayer for issue they are beside themselves about.
Or just out of curiosity, our hunger for the FREE coffee and donuts. - LOL

Would Jesus have gotten a better response if He'd used coffee and donuts instead of loaves and fishes?

 

[gpresdo]

I've not read it all, but perhaps you should read the discussion The Bible teaches repentance unto confession, not confession unto repentance.

I prefer to follow the Bible than a conglomerate discussion.

 

[keithr]

I prefer to follow the Bible than a conglomerate discussion.

And yet by just reading the Bible alone you have not understood what repentence means. That's why I recommended that other thread because you'll get a better idea of what repentence is if you read it. Just trying to help.

 

[gpresdo]

And yet by just reading the Bible alone you have not understood what repentence means. That's why I recommended that other thread because you'll get a better idea of what repentence is if you read it. Just trying to help.

WOW..what a conclusion.

 

[Ghada]

I so wish I could live to the standard of righteousness you preach.

Wishing is not believing and doing. I wish I could fly with the birds in air, but that isn't going to get me there. (I made rhyme!) Nor will wishing to do God's will get anyone resurrected unto life with Him forever. That's only for those repenting and doing His will with His Son today.

Just go ahead and obey God and repent of your own unrighteousness. And then you too could be a believer and doer of His word from a new pure heart after God's own heart.

Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

But, while better each day, I fear I still sin.

Try fearing the Lord instead.

I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

We are reminded of Paul's resolve;...that which i do i choose not....that which i choose i do not...

Well, if you're going to believe a lie about the Bible in order to justify yourself not repenting...

Further, God knew we would be short in our ability to achieve perfection the reason He gave us unlimited times for sin forgiveness.

For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.

Our time on earth to repent is not unlimited.

Therefore, my resolve is to be better tomorrow than I was today.

That's fine for man's religion to try and sin less than before. It also makes for good neighbors and workers and law-abiding citizens.

But being a good sinner is not the gospel promise of being pure born sons of God to them that repent. Decent Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddist, etc.. religion of unrepented and unrighteous sinners, falls short of the pure religion of Jesus Christ with entrance into His everlasting kingdom.

Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Just go ahead and repent once for all, and the Lord will give you a whole new and pure heart of His own too. You can then leave less sinning religion to others.

And don't worry yourself about whether you believe it first. Jesus gives us His heart of faith when we do our part and repent from the heart.

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Too many hearers of the Bible don't hear the truth of the words. Man must repent of sinning first, in order to receive the faith toward God to do His righteousness from a brand new heart pure from lust.