Why are Bible scholars leaving Christianity?

[St. SteVen]

Bible scholars are leaving Christianity in droves. Why?
Not because they don't understand the Bible, obviously. (they're Bible scholars)

- Do you have to be Christian to believe in God?
- Do you have to agree with the institutional church's positions to believe in God?

Previous topic on this subject.

Leaving Room for Faith - why we don't know EVERYTHING

At one time I was bothered by the fact that we don't really have ALL the answers. There was always a loose end somewhere. I chased the apologetics in every direction, but always came up short somewhere. And frankly, I don't remember the specifics, only the moment of my release from the tyranny...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Windmillcharge]

Bible scholars are leaving Christianity in droves. Why?
Not because they don't understand the Bible, obviously. (they're Bible scholars)

- Do you have to be Christian to believe in God?

You've watched the videos, so list the excuses they give for not believing.

Do you have to be Christian to believe in God? Jesus answered that, saying even demons believe in God and shudder.

 

[MatthewG]

They just aren't happy with their relationship with God, perhaps.

All I know, it is there choice.

The worrisome thing is if you listen to people talk about these things, you yourself will perhaps start to doubt.

That is why it's not good to heed to the "Spirit of Disbelief", in my opinion.

If you hear his voice, today, don't harden your hearts.

God loves all of us, and them - if they choose to walk away that is there choice. God still loves them, and I still love them as well, and hope they will turn around before the death bell tolls.

 

[marks]

1 Timothy 4:1 KJV
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Bible scholars are leaving Christianity in droves. Why?
Not because they don't understand the Bible, obviously. (they're Bible scholars)

- Do you have to be Christian to believe in God?
- Do you have to agree with the institutional church's positions to believe in God?

Previous topic on this subject.

Leaving Room for Faith - why we don't know EVERYTHING

At one time I was bothered by the fact that we don't really have ALL the answers. There was always a loose end somewhere. I chased the apologetics in every direction, but always came up short somewhere. And frankly, I don't remember the specifics, only the moment of my release from the tyranny...

www.christianityboard.com

Well I can only quote what God inspired the apostle John to write:

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Being a "bible scholar" does not make you a believer- just one who knows alot about the bible. Even scholars can be unsaved because though they know alot about teh Scriptures, they never established a saving relationship with the God of the Scriptures.

 

[marks]

Well I can only quote what God inspired the apostle John to write:

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Being a "bible scholar" does not make you a believer- just one who knows alot about the bible. Even scholars can be unsaved because though they know alot about teh Scriptures, they never established a saving relationship with the God of the Scriptures.

Charles Templeton is an example. This was a man who was a successful arena evangelist contemporary to and friend of Billy Graham. They decided to go to seminary together, which was where Charles realized he didn't believe. Some considered him an example of someone who had lost their salvation, though the man himself wrote later that he never was a believer. He was an excellent orator, and though he likely led thousands to know Christ, yet he himself did not.

Much love!

 

[St. SteVen]

You've watched the videos, so list the excuses they give for not believing.

Fair enough...
By in large they come from a fundamentalist, or evangelical backgrounds.
And accepted the biblical views that came with that mindset.

In every case they encountered something that didn't sit well with them.
They looked both inside and outside the Bible for answers. And found that
history and science were incompatible with biblical theology.

Advanced education played a role. These were legitimate believers,
so the claim they NEVER were a "true" Christian is false. (1 John 2:19)

There seems to be something to the idea that some people want their religious
views to be completely black and white. The gray areas are terrifying to them.

Apologetics are designed to meet that need. As a result, the honest "I don't know."
answer is unacceptable to them. I remember having my own moment in reference
to the standard evangelical explanation of "the unforgivable sin". (unbelief)
Which has ABSOLUTELY no support in the text. (Matthew 12:31)

 

[marks]

These were legitimate believers,
so the claim they NEVER were a "true" Christian is false. (1 John 2:19)

Presumption. If they left the faith, they were not reborn.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Bible scholars are leaving Christianity in droves. Why?

5 videos is hardly droves, but to answer your question, for the same reason everyone has who leaves. They were never really in. Plain and simple. For all the debate, this is one of those things that is plainly addressed in Scripture.

1 John 2:19 KJV
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Much love!

 

[Patrick1966]

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of [a]Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of [b]sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

 

[Patrick1966]

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

 

[St. SteVen]

Presumption. If they left the faith, they were not reborn.

That is not their testimony.

Much love!

Sorry, sounds more like much hate.

The church claims to love those who agree and stay, and hate those who disagree and leave. (dismissive)
Sobering thought. (I hope)

 

[St. SteVen]

They were never really in. Plain and simple. For all the debate, this is one of those things that is plainly addressed in Scripture.

1 John 2:19 KJV
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Who is "they" in context?
Can you really apply this across the board with no concern for the individual?
No wonder they left. They were actually pushed out! Blame the victim.
No questions allowed. Buy our apologetics or get out!

 

[marks]

Who is "they" in context?
Can you really apply this across the board with no concern for the individual?
No wonder they left. They were actually pushed out! Blame the victim.
No questions allowed. Buy our apologetics or get out!

They, those who leave. This is a "rule of thumb". A general statement telling us how this works.

No need to presume I'm not concerned, this isn't about my feelings, that's your straw man.

Pushed out? They leave, they make their choice. No questions? That's another red herring.

My point is this. The Bible tells us what happens when someone leaves. I happen to believe the Bible. It's a clear statement that is made there.

You make this something it's not.

Much love!

 

[marks]

That is not their testimony.

Sorry, sounds more like much hate.

The church claims to love those who agree and stay, and hate those who disagree and leave. (dismissive)
Sobering thought. (I hope)

I think you are making this up to serve your agenda. OK, just accuse everyone of hate. Hm, it seems there's been a lot of that going around. Do you really think that's proper?

Much love!

 

[St. SteVen]

They, those who leave. This is a "rule of thumb". A general statement telling us how this works.

Right a rule of thumb. As I said, with no consideration for the individual.

No need to presume I'm not concerned, this isn't about my feelings, that's your straw man.

Straw man? I think I'm being pretty direct here.

Pushed out? They leave, they make their choice. No questions? That's another red herring.

Red herring? Their PERSONAL testimonies tell about eventually being pushed out.
Not everyone, but we can't deny the fact that it happens.

My point is this. The Bible tells us what happens when someone leaves. I happen to believe the Bible. It's a clear statement that is made there.

Your "rule of thumb" is built on one verse that has unclear context about who. Says "many antichrists". ???

I think you are making this up to serve your agenda. OK, just accuse everyone of hate. Hm, it seems there's been a lot of that going around. Do you really think that's proper?

For some reason, the testimony of a Christian within the tribe is valid,
but the testimony of a Christian that has left the tribe is invalid.
Why is that?

 

[Rockerduck]

They made a video, that's a story in itself. Its all about me, look I made a video.
If they leave Christianity, where else could they go?

John 6:68-69 - But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

 

[marks]

Right a rule of thumb. As I said, with no consideration for the individual.

Straw man? I think I'm being pretty direct here.

Red herring? Their PERSONAL testimonies tell about eventually being pushed out.
Not everyone, but we can't deny the fact that it happens.

Your "rule of thumb" is built on one verse that has unclear context about who. Says "many antichrists". ???

For some reason, the testimony of a Christian within the tribe is valid,
but the testimony of a Christian that has left the tribe is invalid.
Why is that?

Tribes? I perceive this is your agenda, to separate people into "tribes", thereby dividing the church. You are warned about that in 1 Corinthians 3 and 4. No, this is about the teaching of the Bible, and those who go against it.

1 John 2:18-19 KJV
18) Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19) They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Much love!

 

[St. SteVen]

Do you have to be Christian to believe in God? Jesus answered that, saying even demons believe in God and shudder.

So... you don't have to be a Christian to believe in God. You agree.

 

[marks]

So... you don't have to be a Christian to believe in God. You agree.

You can believe in God while not knowing anything about Him, and, just as the demons, remaining condemned.

Much love!