aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Sola Scriptura is a Protestant standard. The very fact that you reject the Church as an authority and only view the Bible as authoritative is a Protestant standard, not a Catholic standard.
Why are Catholics so bad?
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Sola Scriptura is a Protestant standard. The very fact that you reject the Church as an authority and only view the Bible as authoritative is a Protestant standard, not a Catholic standard.
And what does Jesus have to say about it all.
Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
Col 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
There is only one true chucch, not built by man nor run by man, as it is written
Act 7:46 Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob.
Act 7:47 But Solomon built him an house.
Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Act 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things?
Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
There is going to be a lot of upset christians soon, when they discover that though they where in church they where not in Christ.
In All His Love
Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
Col 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
There is only one true chucch, not built by man nor run by man, as it is written
Act 7:46 Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob.
Act 7:47 But Solomon built him an house.
Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Act 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things?
Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
There is going to be a lot of upset christians soon, when they discover that though they where in church they where not in Christ.
In All His Love
You are being very kind to call it a Protestant standard. Let's face it, it is an unscriptural Protestant invention.
Hi Aspen,
Ok, so you are responding to my questions with Sola Scriptura in mind. I understand. But, don't you think Sola Oral is unscriptural, too? So far, after 40 questions it seems that major doctrines and dogma of the RCC are Sola Oral. I assume you are a seeker of truth and I wonder why you don't see this as a "red flag"?
The RCC Gospel seems like a "Patchwork Gospel", to me that is slowly but surely being "quilted" with various "patches" at different times in history, ALL from ORAL TRADITION or the MAGISTERIUM.
If RCC history is any indication (and why shouldn't it be?), then there will continue to be additions (patches) to the Scriptures (via Sola Oral) and I understand that soon (a matter of years), Mary will be announced as Co-Mediatrix to Jesus Christ. That through her sufferings and intercession we are also saved.
Doesn't any of this this bother you, a little? Should our loyalties and faithfulness be to the Person of Jesus Christ and not an Institution? You do know, don't you that His Church is far more encompassing than any earthly institution. I say earthly institution because there is no mention of the RCC in the Scriptures.
Axehead
P.S. I don't reject Jesus Christ as THE AUTHORITY. I reject ANY Church that poses as an AUTHORITY over JESUS CHRIST and what HE said. And there are a great number of man-made churches, Aspen, that "add to" and "take away" from the Scriptures.
Axehead,
These sorts of lists are a mixture of spurious points, misunderstandings of Catholic teaching, crude distortions of Catholic teachings or practices, faulty logic and misapplication of scripture and personal opinions. In my experience people who post such lists have no interest in a serious discussion. They just want to throw rocks at the Catholic Church.
Protestants produce these lists of Catholic “errors”, usually just copied from anti-catholic web sites and then expect Catholics to spend time unpicking the mess, researching and answering them.
Which web site did you copy your list from?
You demand answers based on faulty praxis according to your rules. Why should we do that?
As I have said to you before:
Oral Tradition is biblical. Scripture alone is unbiblical.
The apostles were given ALL their doctrines orally by Jesus. He wrote nothing down for them.
No Catholic doctrine contradicts the written word of God
No written word of God contradicts Catholic doctrine, only faulty Protestant private interpretations.
Since Catholic doctrine and the written word of God comes from the same source it is not surprising there is no conflict.
You did not dispute this.
Now here we have a problem Mungo. Because I have listed 40 items that contradict God's Word.
Millions of people see the conflicts so how can you say "it is not surprising there is no conflict". Let me post the verses for you, for my second 20 questions that reveal the conflict.
Is Sola Orale, scriptural?
We can compare the NT with the OT and vice-versa. What can we compare Oral Tradition with? Or are we just supposed to accept ALL OF IT, from ROME, no questions asked? Your answers don't really respect the thinking and reasoning capability of people. And your answers don't respect a man's will as you would have them just carte blanche accept ROME as the AUTHORITY over all things SPIRITUAL. That is a bit much to ask of people that have freedom of choice, don't you think?
All the best,
Axehead
No you haven't
Millions of Protestants perhaps with their misinterpretation of scripture.
Never heard of it. Show me some authoritative Catholic document that claims this "Sola Orale" as you call it.
Sounds like another protestant invention to me along with sola scriptura and sola fides.
We can compare Catholic doctrine with scripture and find no contradiction.
You still haven't answered my questions:
Which web site did you copy your list from?
You demand answers based on faulty praxis according to your rules. Why should we do that?
Here are some more:
Where is scripture does it say that everything must be explicitly expressed in scrioture?
Where in scripture does it say that everything must be explicitly stated in the New Testament?
Where is scripture does it say there can be bo development in practices?
Where in scripture does it say that there must be no development in organisation?
Where in scripture does it say that Jesus produced a finished product in His Church that must not be altered in any way?
Where in scripture does it say that Oral Tradition is not allowed?
Where is scripture does it say Jesus told people to work out their own doctrines from a book?
Where in scripture does it say that Scripture is the pillar and foundation of truth rather than the Church (1Tim 3:15)
Jesus gave men the Holy Spirit to lead them into the truth and show then things to come, but for some that is not enough and so they try earn there way to heaven, Jesus said they wouldn't listen, that they prefer there ways to His, but what comes out of it all, no church built by man, run by men with doctrines written by men, can save anyone, Jesus already did it all, again for some His death on the cross was not a price high enough, so they add to it, by trying to do it themselves. Jesus or mens version of His church, which would you rather have.
In Christ alone
All His Love
And for those who cannot see,
Here is a very comprehensive list of all the things that church can do for you that God, the Holy Spirit and Jesus can not,
Sorry if it took so long to read it.
God Bless
In Christ alone
All His Love
And for those who cannot see,
Here is a very comprehensive list of all the things that church can do for you that God, the Holy Spirit and Jesus can not,
Sorry if it took so long to read it.
God Bless
Good on you Mungo. it is true what you have said, i was a protestant once and thank God that i came out from amongst them. with there horrible worldly ways of thinking, as it saddens me to see the blatant lies pushed misleading people robing them of the truth in Christ Jesus.
They are misled thinking they have arrived but have fell short of what is salvation in full.
Satan comes along and fills them with pride.
I say a true Christian Spiritual beginning also ends with Spiritual end, as the Spirit guides us primarily first and foremost in all we do.
Some prots push that Jesus is a type of side dish.
Rosey, do you happen to have a translation for that linguistic Chinese Fire Drill you just spewed forth? 
He promised the apostles (the foundation stones of his Church Eph 2:20) that he would lead them into all truth.
If the Holy Spirit was to lead all men into the truth he has done a terrible job with Protestantism, with 30,000+ different denominations with conflicting teachings.
Which of the 30,000 Protestant sects do you have in mind?
Absolutely agree, and a good definition of Protestantism there.
But salvation can be found in a Church built by Jesus on doctrines given by Jesus – the Catholic Church.
"And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church "(Mt 16:18)
Which Church is today still led by Peter’s successor? - The Catholic Church!
Rosey, do you happen to have a translation for that linguistic Chinese Fire Drill you just spewed forth?
LOL -
I don't know why Mungo is associating me with Protestants as I just consider myself a Christian. I am equally hard on the Protestants for nullifying God's Word with their many and varied traditions and man-made doctrines, too. I suppose to the RCC, anyone who PROTESTS ROME's nullifying of God's Word is a Protestant. In this respect, I am happy to be a PROTESTER.
Axehead
Well, I just coined the phrase, Sola Orale. Actually, it should be Sola Oralis Fama, for Only Oral Tradition. It seems that every major doctrine/dogma of the RCC is from Oral Tradition. Whatever happened to the Scriptures? I mean, how about just a couple of them?
Of course you can't!! What was I thinking?
I was the first to ask questions, Mungo. You are answering my questions with questions.
They did not come from a website.
I would just like to know if any of the previous 40 questions have any basis in the Bible? Sure, it is clear to me that many do not and you say it is from Oral Tradition. That's fine. Are there any of the 40 that do have any basis in Scripture? That is all I am simply asking.
You should review your other questions because just in case you don’t know it, it is quite obvious that you are working hard to self-justify yourself and the RCC to NOT USE SCRIPTURE or be BOUND BY the AUTHORITY of GOD’s WORD.
Where in Scripture does it say the RCC is the pillar and foundation of truth? I don't see it. I just see the Church of the living God. It doesn’t say ORAL TRADITION, neither.
1Ti_3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
Well, if you are going to try to convince people to come into THE church of ROME, do you think it helps if you just tell them that "this is THE church, and just accept it and everything we tell you IS THE Truth, because no one else has it but us, so don’t argue or debate, just ACCEPT!!
Ok, I answered your questions and I will check back to see if you have answered any of mine.
Also, I will give you scripture references for the 2[sup]nd[/sup] set of 20 questions where they conflict with Scripture since you cannot tell me where they are justified by Scripture.
Axehead
Mungo,
God does not lead Organizations into Truth, He leads His Body, His Church into Truth. Whether they are Protestant or Catholic or Mormon or Jehovah Witness, etc, etc, He leads individuals in His Church into Truth. I agree with you though that if God is leading the Protestant Religious Organizations into Truth He is doing a bad job and the same is true for the Roman Catholic Church Organization.
Thankfully, He is NOT!! He is calling individuals out of everything that is not of Him. Some individuals will hear and obey.
There is only Salvation in Jesus Christ. That is in the Word, but you nullify it. There is nothing about the Romish Church in the Scriptures. If Oral tradition was such an important doctrine then there would be many supporting scriptures in the Bible to help all of us understand and make the transition to such a MAJOR DOCTRINE as Oral Tradition, but there is no case for Oral Tradition in Scripture being on the same level as the Bible.
"And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church "(Mt 16:18)
Which Church is today still led by Peter’s successor? - The Catholic Church!
The Head of the Church is Jesus Christ and He is the One leading it by His Holy Spirit. He has led many through the centuries out of false churches including the RCC and many "Protestant" churches.
There are many serious SCHISMS within the RCC.
Axehead
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Careful Aspen, Mungo is claiming in the "What is the purpose of taking communion" thread that having Jesus live in your heart is no proof that you are saved.
Better refine the question.....
Better refine the question.....
When, as in what month and year did I receive Jesus as in John 1:12?
What is the relevance of your question to this conversation?
Axehead
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Careful Aspen, Mungo is claiming in the "What is the purpose of taking communion" thread that having Jesus live in your heart is no proof that you are saved.
Better refine the question.....
I am claiming that it is not found in the Bible.
If you mean by Oral Tradition that which Jesus passed on to the apostles, then all major doctrines come from that since they come from Jesus and the apostles.
The Catholic Church doesn’t start with scriptures and then start inventing its doctrines as Protestants do. It couldn’t do since doctrines were given to it before the scriptures were written (well the NT anyway).
If you don’t know what you were thinking why should I?
But you don’t seem to be able to show the contrary to what I said.
I didn’t say they were from oral traditions. Why are you lying about what I said?
Translation – I can’t answer your questions.
There you have it. The church of the living God – Catholic Church.
You haven’t even attempted to answer my questions.
Show me that from scripture. You see I give you scripture to back up my claims.
You give nothing to back up your opinions.
You will find Jesus Christ in his Church.
You will find his salvation in his Church
Yes, the head of the Catholic Church is Jesus Christ, the same Jesus Christ who said "And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church "(Mt 16:18)
No there are not.
Another claim not backed up by evidence.
For one the CC church is a denomination like all the rest. Christ never started the CC church men did just like all the rest. Christ gives all men the Holy spirit to lead them all nto the truth, the Holy Spirirt does not do aterrible job of teaching it is just that as Jesus put it, men have itchy ears and would rather listen to someone who tells them what they want to hear then listen to the truth. Basically what you have just Said is God is a terrible teacher and man can do a better Job, that is us men whom the bible claims are all liar. And as for potestantsm, just because one is not a catholic does not make one a protestant. Every denomination claims to hve the truth, they all have their doctrins that explain why but simply put, JEsus said He was the way, the good shepherd, the truth, the life, the bread of life,
Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Not your church or any other mans church. And Christ is bulding His church upon revelation, which is given by God through the Holy spirit to any man who will receive Him and listen. No man upon this earth can give you revelation.
In all His Love
No, I mean "oral tradition" that the Roman Catholic Church has made up without any corroborating witness of Scripture and the Spirit.
I certainly agree "The Catholic Church doesn't start with Scriptures."
My Bible and YOUR Bible don't say that!
Was this my question or yours?
Sorry, been a busy day but I am going to give you scripture for the 2nd set of 20 questions and then give you 20 more questions.
I agree with that.
You will find salvation in Him.
Jesus did say Matthew 16:18, but He said nothing about a very large organization based in Rome with it's own private bank and political structure in almost every country on earth.
Axehead
We can call him Mungo-pen.
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