Why are our ordained pastors so ignorant of Scripture?

[bbyrd009]

The difference is "vocation" or "calling." Many climb the ladder without knowing the truth, just as it is for lots of other pursuits. They learned enough to pass the test of others who also got to where they are with little more than an "E" for effort.

But that just speaks of life in general. It is only a portion that are actually legit. Which in this case may just be a remnant or the smaller percentage of all that make the would be grade. Indeed, there are some who are legit, called by God.

I'd settle for one, got a link? I'd be looking for "Eternal = eon," "only One Immortal," "no one goes to heaven after literal death," etc. A complete disregard for tomorrow or Death More Abundantly iow

Sounds like a deli order.

Ha well that was shorthand, I got vv if you prefer

Vasovagal?

All kidding aside, we don't get to choose to have things our way. Is that not how you came up with that list?

not, correct

No, God is the Potter, not us. We are the clay.

That would explain why you have not found what you are looking for.

i mean srsly?
so my challenge stands ok
and no, I won't be holding my breath, Scott

 

[bbyrd009]

Timeouts for deliberate duplicity would be nice I guess
pretty much answers the title Q too huh

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, God keeps his promises. I have been guided to the truth. It is opposite of what you preach.

Sooooo why do you keep preaching it?

aw man, you had a good point developing there imo. No one brainwashes themselves of course right. Unfort you got "guided to the truth" I guess

 

[bbyrd009]

I agree with you that all the Truth is in Scripture

ergo we can reliably trust that "all the Truth is in Scripture" is not accurate in some way, see. I mean not accurate in some particular or other, possibly more than one.

I guess you could state one of them Truths and we could see if you like Mary, since I just reread that up there and I guess you will read it diff. What is the diff in Belief and Truth to you is what I'm getting at ok, we're all deceived so never mind that part right now

he who says he knows, does not

 

[Stranger]

All Scripture is the Word of God and is found only in the 66 books of the Bible.

Stranger

 

[Marymog]

God the Holy Spirit decides what is true teaching and what is false teaching. Any and everything concerning doctrines and practices must be TOTALLY CONSISTENT with (1) Gospel truth and (2) Bible truth overall.

The reasons for the divisions and conflicts among Christians are rather simple:

1. Picking and choosing verses while ignoring the rest.

2. Taking verses out of context and misapplying them.

3. Deliberately distorting plain verses and creating false doctrines.

4. Putting man-made doctrines above the written Word of God.

Hi Enoch,

I agree with you. The Holy Spirit decides. When YOU partially quote somebody you leave out the meat of the question and discussion. I mean if you want to jump into the middle of a conversation at least quote the ENTIRE post.

Who did the Holy Spirit decide to give that Truth to? You? The Mormons? Baptist, 1st Baptist 2nd Baptists, Lutherans, Catholics, ME, SDA’s????

Who is violating and who is adhering to all four of your “reasons”???

 

[Marymog]

Jesus didn't tell us to judge if someone was right or wrong based on doctrine...He said, by their fruits shall ye know them. There are Christians in every denomination...some keeping and believing in correct doctrine, some not so much. But this they have in common, they are trusting in the blood of the Lamb and seeking further light from the Father of light and His Son. And God is working in them to lead them to greater understanding, and in the meantime they are growing in faith and their characters are becoming more Christ-like. Those fruits are fruits of righteousness. They have accepted by faith the imputed righteousness of Christ, and their characters have been transformed by the power of God through the sanctifying of His word. So I judge people not according to what doctrines they believe in, but by the manner in which they present those doctrines and their willingness to learn and sit humbly at the feet of the Saviour and be fed of Him. That is the criteria.

Hi brakelite,

Scripture says that the Church will judge between disagreeing brothers (Matthew 18:17). That judgment is based upon the doctrine that the Church has. Scripture CLEARLY establishes a doctrine for us all to hold to. Sooo your very first sentence is easy to prove OPPOSITE of what Scripture teaches.

You should read further into Scripture on your second sentence about “fruits”. Further reading reveals that some will bear fruit in His name by casting out demons and doing many mighty works in his name. He will still tell them to depart soooooo who decides what these fruits are? YOU???? YOUR SECOND SENTENCE SHOWS HOW YOU HAVE NOT FULLY GRASPED SCRIPTURE.


In your third sentence you make it sound like YOU get to decide who is “keeping and believing correct doctrine”. If you would have told me a long time ago that YOU decide who is keeping correct doctrine I would have never sought out anyone else.

Your first two sentences are oppose not what scripture says and your third sentence sets YOU up as the decider of who has correct doctrine.

I can’t go on.....your killing me.

 

[Willie T]

Mark 9:
38 “Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”

39 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. 41 Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward.

Obviously not "keeping and believing correct doctrine" according to the judgment of the disciples.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Hi brakelite,

Scripture says that the Church will judge between disagreeing brothers (Matthew 18:17). That judgment is based upon the doctrine that the Church has. Scripture CLEARLY establishes a doctrine for us all to hold to. Sooo your very first sentence is easy to prove OPPOSITE of what Scripture teaches.

You are bending Scripture to suit your purposes. The Matthew 18 passage is about disciplining a church member for BEHAVIOR
which is sinful and brings discredit on the church. 1 Cor. 11:19 is much more pertinent to the discussion at hand.

You should read further into Scripture on your second sentence about “fruits”. Further reading reveals that some will bear fruit in His name by casting out demons and doing many mighty works in his name. He will still tell them to depart soooooo who decides what these fruits are? YOU???? YOUR SECOND SENTENCE SHOWS HOW YOU HAVE NOT FULLY GRASPED SCRIPTURE.

Have you?

In your third sentence you make it sound like YOU get to decide who is “keeping and believing correct doctrine”. If you would have told me a long time ago that YOU decide who is keeping correct doctrine I would have never sought out anyone else.

From the 1 Cor. 11:19 passage, as well as the Letters to the seven churches of Revelation, it is clear that there were divisions in the very early church based on teaching and practices in the early churches. Do you have more of the Holy Spirit than Brakelite?

 

[brakelite]

Scripture says that the Church will judge between disagreeing brothers (Matthew 18:17). That judgment is based upon the doctrine that the Church has.

Do you believe yourself to be clever in the manner in which you have manipulated the scripture to support your opinion? It is clear that the church elders were to gather together to judge a fellow member, but not for false teaching, but on character and behaviour.

You should read further into Scripture on your second sentence about “fruits”. Further reading reveals that some will bear fruit in His name by casting out demons and doing many mighty works in his name. He will still tell them to depart soooooo who decides what these fruits are? YOU???? YOUR SECOND SENTENCE SHOWS HOW YOU HAVE NOT FULLY GRASPED SCRIPTURE.

Not the fruits under discussion...again, this isn't about doctrine, or beliefs. It's about character. Love, joy, peace, kindness, gentleness, goodness, self control etc...fruits of righteousness not of power. It was because folk were casting out devils but had not been transformed into the character of Christ that Jesus said, I never knew you. People can have an intellectual knowledge of every doctrine in every religion on the planet, but it won't give him diddly squat toward getting to heaven.
As for your contention that my third sentence means I decide what doctrine is correct...yes, you are absolutely right. As do many people on this forum, and everyone else who may choose to exercise the freedom of conscience that God has given us all as a gift...although some us may relinquish that freedom, spurn that most precious of gifts, and choose to allow others decide for us. Like you for example. And not only do you let your church decide your doctrine, you sit quietly by and allow your church to enforce harsh punishments and even death on others who refuse to accept it...which explains your queer distorted perspective on the first quote above...you think church discipline applies to doctrine and belief...in some churches it may, but it shouldn't. And it certainly shouldn't be applied to people outside of that church.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Do you believe yourself to be clever in the manner in which you have manipulated the scripture to support your opinion? It is clear that the church elders were to gather together to judge a fellow member, but not for false teaching, but on character and behaviour.

Not the fruits under discussion...again, this isn't about doctrine, or beliefs. It's about character. Love, joy, peace, kindness, gentleness, goodness, self control etc...fruits of righteousness not of power. It was because folk were casting out devils but had not been transformed into the character of Christ that Jesus said, I never knew you. People can have an intellectual knowledge of every doctrine in every religion on the planet, but it won't give him diddly squat toward getting to heaven.
As for your contention that my third sentence means I decide what doctrine is correct...yes, you are absolutely right. As do many people on this forum, and everyone else who may choose to exercise the freedom of conscience that God has given us all as a gift...although some us may relinquish that freedom, spurn that most precious of gifts, and choose to allow others decide for us. Like you for example. And not only do you let your church decide your doctrine, you sit quietly by and allow your church to enforce harsh punishments and even death on others who refuse to accept it...which explains your queer distorted perspective on the first quote above...you think church discipline applies to doctrine and belief...in some churches it may, but it shouldn't. And it certainly shouldn't be applied to people outside of that church.

Yes. The Scripture that more-or-less discusses the issue is 1 Cor. 11:19 where Paul notes that the Corinthians have "divisions" in the church at Corinth over practices and teaching.

 

[Marymog]

Do you believe yourself to be clever in the manner in which you have manipulated the scripture to support your opinion? It is clear that the church elders were to gather together to judge a fellow member, but not for false teaching, but on character and behaviour.

In Scripture The Church Elders gathered (Council of Jerusalem) to make decisions (doctrines/dogma) that were binding upon all Christians. The local Church elders gathered to enforce those doctrines/dogma by JUDGING which church member was right or wrong in their dispute about the teachings of CHRIST! If they disagreed with the Church elders about the DOCTRINE/DOGMA they were to be treated like a pagan or tax collector. That DOCTRINE/DOGMA tells us how to behave and what our character was to be like to be a true Christian. If the person is NOT following the teaching of Christ (the teachings of The Church) on how they are to behave or their character is not in line with the teachings of Christ then The Church renders a decision on who is right and who is wrong sooooooo THANK YOU for making my point. Your own statement supports what I have said but you pretend like you disagree with me.

Since we are having a disagreement....which church would you like to go to to settle this difference????

 

[Marymog]

You are bending Scripture to suit your purposes. The Matthew 18 passage is about disciplining a church member for BEHAVIOR
which is sinful and brings discredit on the church. 1 Cor. 11:19 is much more pertinent to the discussion at hand.

Please read Matthew 18 IN CONTEXT. The passages BEFORE and AFTER speak of SIN and paying DEBT.....NOT behavior. Your theory is not supported by the full CONTEXT of Matthew 18.

1 Corinthians 11 has NOTHING to do with the discussion at hand. It says NOTHING about the Church making a judgment......

Bible study Mary

 

[Marymog]

You are bending Scripture to suit your purposes. The Matthew 18 passage is about disciplining a church member for BEHAVIOR
which is sinful and brings discredit on the church. 1 Cor. 11:19 is much more pertinent to the discussion at hand.

Have you?

From the 1 Cor. 11:19 passage, as well as the Letters to the seven churches of Revelation, it is clear that there were divisions in the very early church based on teaching and practices in the early churches. Do you have more of the Holy Spirit than Brakelite?

Poor baby.[/QUOTE]
No, I do not have more of the Holy Spirit than anyone on this forum.

That has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. He makes it sound like he knows who is adhering to true or correct doctrine. If he KNOWS what is true or correct doctrine then he MUST have the Holy Spirits guidance. How else would he KNOW???

Why have you interjected yourself into our conversation??? I really don’t mind if you want to be constructive or interject your opinion. It’s when you become condescending (Poor baby comment) that you be-little yourself and anything you have to say.

Mary

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Poor baby.

No, I do not have more of the Holy Spirit than anyone on this forum.

That has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. He makes it sound like he knows who is adhering to true or correct doctrine. If he KNOWS what is true or correct doctrine then he MUST have the Holy Spirits guidance. How else would he KNOW???

Why have you interjected yourself into our conversation??? I really don’t mind if you want to be constructive or interject your opinion. It’s when you become condescending (Poor baby comment) that you be-little yourself and anything you have to say.

Mary[/QUOTE]

If you will look back to my original post, you will see that I removed it. You are right, please accept my apology.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

You are bending Scripture to suit your purposes. The Matthew 18 passage is about disciplining a church member for BEHAVIOR
which is sinful and brings discredit on the church. 1 Cor. 11:19 is much more pertinent to the discussion at hand.


From the 1 Cor. 11:19 passage, as well as the Letters to the seven churches of Revelation, it is clear that there were divisions in the very early church based on teaching and practices in the early churches. Do you have more of the Holy Spirit than Brakelite?

 

[bbyrd009]

All Scripture is the Word of God and is found only in the 66 books of the Bible.

Stranger

Won't stand up to Paul, but ty for your guess anyway ok

 

[bbyrd009]

I guess you could state one of them Truths and we could see if you like Mary

I guess not huh

 

[brakelite]

In Scripture The Church Elders gathered (Council of Jerusalem) to make decisions (doctrines/dogma) that were binding upon all Christians. The local Church elders gathered to enforce those doctrines/dogma by JUDGING which church member was right or wrong in their dispute about the teachings of CHRIST! If they disagreed with the Church elders about the DOCTRINE/DOGMA they were to be treated like a pagan or tax collector. That DOCTRINE/DOGMA tells us how to behave and what our character was to be like to be a true Christian. If the person is NOT following the teaching of Christ (the teachings of The Church) on how they are to behave or their character is not in line with the teachings of Christ then The Church renders a decision on who is right and who is wrong sooooooo THANK YOU for making my point. Your own statement supports what I have said but you pretend like you disagree with me.

Since we are having a disagreement....which church would you like to go to to settle this difference????

Not yours. , Your church's definition of heathen and publican runs along the same lines as some think of snakes... With the same result. No thanks.

 

[Marymog]

Not yours. , Your church's definition of heathen and publican runs along the same lines as some think of snakes... With the same result. No thanks.

The question wasn’t which church you DON’T want to go to. The question was which church you want to go to.

You eliminated my Church.....several thousand to go.....sooooo WHICH Church would you like to go to?

Do you lack confidence and faith in your church? Is that why you didn’t choose it?

Curious Mary