Why are some interpreters not being honest with the text involving Daniel 9:27?

[Eternally Grateful]

They did cease to have any meaning once Christ made His once for all sacrifice. How can you, as a Christian, not recognize that? You should have more discernment than this.

But they did not CEASE.

They continued for the next almost 4 decades until the temple was destroyed

How can Israel finish its own transgression? Only Jesus could do that for them. Daniel 9 is all about Jesus but you make it all about Israel! Open your eyes! Jesus did for them what they could not possibly do themselves.

How can a jew finish his own transgression?

the way we all do. By repenting of our evil, and turning to God.

Jesus accomplished all of those things listed in Daniel 9:24 as only He could! Read this if you want to understand how the transgression was finished, how the end of sins was made and how reconciliation was made for iniquity:

Sorry, The jew is still in sin, Look at them today..

Isaiah 53:5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him and by his wounds we are healed.6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. 8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away. Yet who of his generation protested? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was punished. 9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand. 11 After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

this has no bearing on Daniel 9. Or what will happen at the end of the 70 weeks.

From the Bible, of course. Are you somehow not aware that Jesus made their temple spiritually desolate around the time of His death (see Matthew 23:37-38) and that it became physically desolate in 70 AD?

Who cares about any of this

I care about prophecy and what God himself said would happen.

I do not interpret the word to fit my belief, i fit my belief to the word.

If the word says there will be an abomination which makes desolate in the wing of the temple. And if the word says we will see it standing in that holy place. I take God literally. Until it happens, I KNOW it has not bee fulfilled.

I do not make it appear to have been fulfilled because i have to fit my belief system, I first my belief system to the word.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This is absolutely right. There is absolutely nothing in the text itself to indicate that there would be any gap at any point during the 70 weeks. So, apart from doctrinal bias, there is no reason whatsoever for someone to assert that there is a gap in the 70 weeks. There is no basis for that belief at all. Adding a gap to the 70 weeks is a move made out of desperation by those who are not willing to accept what it is really all about.

Again, How can you look at the passage and say this?

25. Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem

This was fulfilled in Neh 2 when Nehimiah was given the command to restor Jerusalem

Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The [h]street shall be built again, and the [i]wall,
Even in troublesome times.

This was fulfilled when Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey as the prophet prophesied his entrance

Zechariah 9:9

The Coming King​

“Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your King is coming to you; He is just and having salvation, Lowly and riding on a donkey, A colt, the foal of a donkey

Also note Up until this time, jesus continued to say, it is not my time yet. This is what he was talking about. He could not enter jerusalem as king until his time.

Up until now. 69 weeks (7 plus 62) has been literally fulfilled. You would think the 70th week would start the next day. However what does the text say


26 “And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;

The first event after the 69th week, is messiah would be cut off. This happened immediately after he entered jerusalem as he was arrested, tried and crucified.

then there is another event


And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

This happens after Jesus is cut off. almost 40 years later.. Yet we still have not begun the 70th week yet

This destruction will not just be an event, it will continue for a time

The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

The end of this destruction will come at a time when these war desolations, which continue today, are determined to continue.

We still have not started the 70 weeks, yet we have 2000 years almost since the 69th week ended..

No Gap???

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;

here we have the beginning of the 70th week. We do not know what covenant, or even literally who confirms it, all we know is that he comes from rome, as he is the prince of the people who destroyed the city of Jerusalem.

What happens during this 70th week?


But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the [l]desolate.”

1. In the middle of the week is this abomination which causes desolation. This causes sacriice and burnt offering to cease.
2. Jesus gave a warning, when you see this, Then run, because then there will be great tribulation such as has never been seen before.
3. We also know this great tribulation will be so severe, that nothing on earth has been like it before or after, So bad is it that all life on earth is threatened (see matt 24)
4. We know that this will culminate in the return of the king, jesus himself. Who the kings of the earth will witness his return and his destruction of the gentile rulers (at this time, Dan 2, Dan 7 Dan 9 Dan 11 and Dan 12 will be fulfilled.)

non of this has happened yet? Why? Because it is NOT YET FULFILLED

So please. Stop saying there is no GAP and stop mocking people who believe it is. Because in reality, the fact you can not see a GAP is really amazing, if we get down to it

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There are two different and distinct desolations I believe, one in v.2 physical, the other spiritual v.17. They are both addressed by Gabriel, the one occurred in 70 A.D., the other 40 years earlier at the Crucifixion.

But neither of these two things is an “abomination that causes desolation”

so neither of them fit the narrative of what happens inthe middle of the week

 

[WPM]

But they did not CEASE.

They continued for the next almost 4 decades until the temple was destroyed

How can a jew finish his own transgression?

the way we all do. By repenting of our evil, and turning to God.

Sorry, The jew is still in sin, Look at them today..

this has no bearing on Daniel 9. Or what will happen at the end of the 70 weeks.

Who cares about any of this

I care about prophecy and what God himself said would happen.

I do not interpret the word to fit my belief, i fit my belief to the word.

If the word says there will be an abomination which makes desolate in the wing of the temple. And if the word says we will see it standing in that holy place. I take God literally. Until it happens, I KNOW it has not bee fulfilled.

I do not make it appear to have been fulfilled because i have to fit my belief system, I first my belief system to the word.

When Jesus cried it is finished, the old covenant sacrifice system was finished. This was reinforced by the ripping of the temple curtain in two. Christ was the final sacrifice for sin.

Hebrews 7:27 says of Christ and His final atonement, “Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.”

Hebrews 9:28 explains that "Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many.”

Hebrews 10:10 says, “we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

Hebrews 10:12 says, “this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God.”

Hebrews 10:14 says, “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”

There it is! Clear and irrefutable! This is the sacrifice to end all sacrifices forever!!! "Forever" actually means "forever."

Romans 6:10 says, “he died unto sin once.”

1 Peter 3:18 says, “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit.”

Hebrews 9:12 explains, “by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.”

Christ put an end of sin by this final transaction for sin, thus making an end of sin forever for those who would believe. There will never again be a sacrifice for sin. Christ’s atonement satisfied heaven’s holy demands and ensured that there would never again be another sacrifice/offering for sin carrying God’s blessing.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

When Jesus cried it is finished, the old covenant sacrifice system was finished. This was reinforced by the ripping of the temple curtain in two. Christ was the final sacrifice for sin.

Hebrews 7:27 says of Christ and His final atonement, “Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.”

Hebrews 9:28 explains that "Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many.”

Hebrews 10:10 says, “we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

Hebrews 10:12 says, “this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God.”

Hebrews 10:14 says, “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”

There it is! Clear and irrefutable! This is the sacrifice to end all sacrifices forever!!! "Forever" actually means "forever."

Romans 6:10 says, “he died unto sin once.”

1 Peter 3:18 says, “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit.”

Hebrews 9:12 explains, “by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.”

Christ put an end of sin by this final transaction for sin, thus making an end of sin forever for those who would believe. There will never again be a sacrifice for sin. Christ’s atonement satisfied heaven’s holy demands and ensured that there would never again be another sacrifice/offering for sin carrying God’s blessing.

why do people insist trying to insert into prophecy something that is not there

Prophecy lets us see events, God foretells these events will take place. When we see them literally take place we know two things

1. God said it would happen. That makes him God.. and I can trust other things he says to.

2. We can determine what false prophet it. Because a false prophet can not interpret literal events and they happen just as God said they would

Gabriel says that sacrifice and burnt offering will CEASE.. He did nto say the need for them would cease.

Sacrifice of animals has NEVER taken away sin. So in essence,, no offering of bulls and goat was ever required. If it was required. Those who were alive when there was no temple had no means of forgiveness

 

[Eternally Grateful]

When Jesus cried it is finished, the old covenant sacrifice system was finished. This was reinforced by the ripping of the temple curtain in two. Christ was the final sacrifice for sin.

Hebrews 7:27 says of Christ and His final atonement, “Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.”

Hebrews 9:28 explains that "Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many.”

Hebrews 10:10 says, “we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

Hebrews 10:12 says, “this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God.”

Hebrews 10:14 says, “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”

There it is! Clear and irrefutable! This is the sacrifice to end all sacrifices forever!!! "Forever" actually means "forever."

Romans 6:10 says, “he died unto sin once.”

1 Peter 3:18 says, “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit.”

Hebrews 9:12 explains, “by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.”

Christ put an end of sin by this final transaction for sin, thus making an end of sin forever for those who would believe. There will never again be a sacrifice for sin. Christ’s atonement satisfied heaven’s holy demands and ensured that there would never again be another sacrifice/offering for sin carrying God’s blessing.

As for eternal salvation, I agree with you.. Jesus paid it all.. He was the lamb of God that took away the sin of the world.

But that is not what Daniel 9 is about.

 

[Truth7t7]

If the word says there will be an abomination which makes desolate in the wing of the temple. And if the word says we will see it standing in that holy place. I take God literally. Until it happens, I KNOW it has not bee fulfilled.

I do not make it appear to have been fulfilled because i have to fit my belief system, I first my belief system to the word.

Agree 100%

 

[covenantee]

why do people insist trying to insert into prophecy something that is not there

Prophecy lets us see events, God foretells these events will take place. When we see them literally take place we know two things

1. God said it would happen. That makes him God.. and I can trust other things he says to.

2. We can determine what false prophet it. Because a false prophet can not interpret literal events and they happen just as God said they would

Gabriel says that sacrifice and burnt offering will CEASE.. He did nto say the need for them would cease.

Sacrifice of animals has NEVER taken away sin. So in essence,, no offering of bulls and goat was ever required. If it was required. Those who were alive when there was no temple had no means of forgiveness

You constantly lay claim to being literal.

Here is Scripture's first prophecy:

Genesis 3
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Interpret it for us, literally.

 

[Truth7t7]

When Jesus cried it is finished, the old covenant sacrifice system was finished. This was reinforced by the ripping of the temple curtain in two. Christ was the final sacrifice for sin.

I Agree 100%, Jesus Cried and the veil was rent in twain, the temple in Jerusalem was rendered useless, "Destroyed" not one stone upon another, "Gone"!

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

 

[Truth7t7]

You constantly lay claim to being literal.

Here is Scripture's first prophecy:

Genesis 3
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Interpret it for us, literally.

Please interpret that seen below

1.) They shall see the Son of man coming?

2.) They shall gather together his elect?

Matthew 24:30-31KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[covenantee]

Diversion and Distraction

Then ignore it.

 

[covenantee]

Please interpret that seen below

1.) They shall see the Son of man coming?

2.) They shall gather together his elect?

Matthew 24:30-31KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Literal of course.

Don't you agree?

 

[Truth7t7]

Literal of course.

Don't you agree?

Yes I literally see Jesus returning in the second coming, with the angels sent forth to harvest the believing church on earth (The End)

Matthew 24:30-31KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[quietthinker]

Why are some interpreters not being honest with the text involving Daniel 9:27?​

Self honesty...hmmmm, who can know it?

 

[Douggg]

From the Bible, of course. Are you somehow not aware that Jesus made their temple spiritually desolate around the time of His death (see Matthew 23:37-38) and that it became physically desolate in 70 AD?

The disciples, after Jesus's resurrection and His appearing to them, were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. So I don't think that the temple was made spiritually desolate until 70 AD..

Luke 24:53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes I deny the words (Messiah Cut Off) represents the cross of calvary, it represents the future building to Messiah is (Cut Off)

Please pray for discernment. You currently are very lacking in it.

Isaiah 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Messiah wasn't cut off in 33AD then a big gap runs to 70AD in Jerusalems destruction to account for weeks 63-70, how do you account for 8 weeks representing 37 literal years from calvary 33AD-70AD in Roman destruction, "Smiles"!

There is nothing to demand that Jerusalem's destruction had to occur within the 70 weeks. "Smiles"!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The disciples, after Jesus's resurrection and His appearing to them, were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. So I don't think that the temple was made spiritually desolate until 70 AD..

Luke 24:53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.

Doug, I gave you the scripture reference that I based that statement on. I guess I need to spell it out to you.

Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Are you arguing with the words of Jesus Christ Himself? Or do you now want to acknowledge that you are wrong after reading this? The sense that the temple was made spiritually desolate was in terms of the old covenant practices being performed there. They were no longer necessary. Jesus ushered in the new covenant which replaced the old covenant. So, the temple was made spiritually desolate to those who thought that the old covenant with its animal sacrifices and such was still in effect. That's what the tearing of the temple veil in two signified.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

As I have shown my belief, Jerusalem will be surrounded by armies in the future, I believe this will be caused by the Jews taking the temple mount in rebuilding the temple at the present Muslim holy mosque

As the scripture states below (The End Thereof) and the war will be at (The End) Armageddon in the second coming

Daniel 9:26KJV
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Again, the context is in relation to the city, Jerusalem, and the sanctuary (temple) only and not to global destruction that we know will occur when Jesus returns. We know that Jerusalem was destroyed along with its temple long ago in 70 AD, so why would you not think the prophecy was about that? Jesus prophesied that the city and temple standing at the time would be destroyed (Luke 19:41-44, Luke 21:6-7;20-24, Matthew 24:1-2, Mark 13:1-2) and He even referenced Daniel in relation to that (Matthew 24:15, Mark 13:14). It should be clear that He was referring to Daniel 9:26.

The second coming in fire and final judgement of the (He) In Daniel 9:27 at the consummation

Daniel 7:9-13KJV
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of

Do you believe in a future literal human man that will fulfill (The Beast) of Revelation 13?

No, I don't. The beast is not a man. If it was he would be a very old man because it existed even before John wrote the book of Revelation.

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

The beast "was" before the book was written and will ascend out of the bottomless pit in the future. How can that be describing a future literal human man? That makes no sense whatsoever. The beast is a symbolic representation of this evil world and its systems controlled by Satan at any given time in history.

 

[Douggg]

Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Are you arguing with the words of Jesus Christ Himself?

Jesus was making a prophecy that would be fulfilled in 70 AD.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

But they did not CEASE.

They continued for the next almost 4 decades until the temple was destroyed

So what? You are being too literal here. Their significance ceased when Jesus died on the cross and ushered in the new covenant.

How can a jew finish his own transgression?

the way we all do. By repenting of our evil, and turning to God.

Sorry, The jew is still in sin, Look at them today..

There are some Jews who are saved and belong to Christ. I, of course, am not saying no Jews sin today, but that isn't what making an end of sin means. Your focus is on the wrong thing. It should be on Jesus because the prophecy is all about Him and what He would do for the people of Israel.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Jesus made an end to sin in the sense of dying on the cross and taking "away the sin of the world".