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Scripture: "Seventy weeks are determined..." Daniel 9:24
Dispensational futurism: 69 weeks are determined; the 70th week is postponed and undetermined.
Easy decision.
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Why are some interpreters not being honest with the text involving Daniel 9:27?
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Scripture: "Seventy weeks are determined..." Daniel 9:24
Dispensational futurism: 69 weeks are determined; the 70th week is postponed and undetermined.
Easy decision.
Daniel 9:26 says: “the people of the prince that shall come (speaking of the Roman soldiers) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.”
In Daniel 9:27 after predicting that the old covenant would be removed, the angel predicted that God would destroy the temple (the centre-point of the sacrifices) forever. We learn: “for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”
The consummation is the one final future Coming of Christ.
We see the fulfilment of this in Christ’s words in Matthew 23:34-35: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord (the consummation, as Daniel predicted).”
Christ continues (to remove any ambiguity as to what He was referring to) in Matthew 24:1-2, “And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? Verily I say unto you, there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
This couldn’t be clearer.
What was going to replace the old physical Jewish building in Jerusalem was not something that was restricted to one race but a global spiritual temple that embraced all nations equally.
In John 4:19-20 we see Christ addressing this subject, in response to a statement made by the woman at the well. The woman said to Christ, “Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.”
Christ responded in vv 21-24, “Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
What Christ was teaching here was that a new economy was being introduced through His earthly ministry that would forever replace the old. No longer would the worship of the living God be restricted to a natural geographical land-mass or be centred upon a physical temporal brick building built with hands in earthly Jerusalem, rather, it would now be concentrated in a spiritual eternal temple (the redeemed Church) which is spiritual located within the heavenly New Jerusalem. That temple would not be restricted to one physical nation but would be situated throughout all the nations of the world.
Since Christ, the worship of God was no longer restricted to a physical earthly building but rather relocated to an invisible spiritual temple called the Church.
The Jews at the time of Christ, being ignorant and earthly minded, interpreted this statement to mean: He would destroy and rebuild the physical Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. The reading records, “Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?”
However, the next verse exposed their blindness, saying, “But he spake of the temple of his body” (v 21).
Christ spiritualizes the temple here. None could surely dispute this. There were 2 different mindsets in this picture. Christ’s heavenly mind-set presenting the introduction of the new covenant in the form of Himself and the Jews carnal earthly mind-set hankering towards an old inadequate system.
Christ also declared during His ministry, whilst standing in the actual temple, “I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple” (Matthew 12:6). However, the Jews in the main had No comprehension of that glorious statement. To this spiritual Temple would the nations finally find mercy, thus, fulfilling perfectly what the old temple couldn’t. And thus, through Himself (the living Temple), fulfilling Isaiah 2:2 that “all nations shall flow unto it.”
Granted, the temple was central to the Jewish faith. For anyone to intimate in any way that it would be destroyed was viewed as nothing short of blasphemy. However, Christ was redirecting their eyes from the old temporal building – which was an imperfect shadow and type of Himself – and pointing them towards the new all-sufficient eternal temple – in the form of His person. Through His impending death, the temporal temple and its ceremonies would be done away with.
Hebrews 9:11 directly rebukes those who look to an earthly carnal building in modern Israel. It explicitly states, “Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building.”
This is God’s perfect temple today – and it is eternal. This building will never fall, be replaced or share a central place with another.
Truth7t7
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You laugh at others putting a "Gap" into Daniel's 70 weeks, and you put a 37 year gap between the 69th & 70th week as shown below, Real Big Smiles!
Daniel 9:26-27KJV
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off (33 AD), but not for himself: and (A 37 Year Gap Here) the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (70AD Roman Armies Destroy The Temple) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
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Truth7t7
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Try responding to post #163 above and your 37 year gap between the 69th and 70th week, Big Smiles!
Truth7t7
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I Agree, and Daniel 9:27 below shows that the bad guy causing desolation will be present on earth to see the second coming and cup of God's wrath poured out, trying to tie this verse to 70AD Jerusalem is a farce
Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Truth7t7
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You claim the 70th week stopped at calvary in 33AD (Messiah Cut Off) Daniel 9:27 teaches the 70th week the (He) will cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease, and you believe and teach this took place in 70AD in Roman armies destroying the Jerusalem TempleYour 70th week is decapitated, orphaned, undetermined...
And anti-Scriptural.
Sorry Pal, you can't have your cake and eat it tooo, smiles!
Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Truth7t7
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Jesus spoke of his body to be destroyed in death as the temple, you and the pharisees believe it was a literal temple of stone taking 46 years to build
John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
Who is Daniel's (Little Horn/The Beast) seen below, it describes (A Body) being destroyed and given to the burning flame, you see the second coming and final judgement?
Daniel 9:10-11KJV
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
The verse below talks of (The Beast) and he's cast "Alive" into the lake of fire, looks like Daniel and John saw the same thing?
Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
You claim that. I don't. The 70th week concluded in 34 AD, 3.5 years after Calvary. Christ caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease, both spiritually at Calvary, and physically when Jerusalem was destroyed.
You claim that your "bad guy" is Messiah the Prince, i.e. that antichrist is Christ.
You can have and eat all of that cake. It's beyond rotten.
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This 3.5 year tribulation is this supposed to be meaning the last half of this literal 490 days? That it involves this 3.5 years tribulation? If yes, was math anything you were ever any good at? You do know how many years 490 literal days involve, right? It's around 1.36 years if we assume 360 day years. It's around 16.3 months if we assume 30 day months. And look what you are doing here, lol, you're trying to fit something into something it can't even fit. You would have us believe that 3.5 years can fit 245 literal days? It can't even fit 490 literal days, let alone half of that. Why others are wasting time debating this nonsense with you is beyond me? Anyone that would take the 490 years to mean 490 days is lunacy. Nothing can fit in any of that. Clearly, 3.5 years can't. Even if you weren't good at math, well they do have calculators you know.
So let's have your literal interpretation of Genesis 3:15:
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Truth7t7
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If you would have read and noticed the 70th week is future and 7 literal days, the antichrist will be revealed in the middle of the 7 day period proclaiming to be Messiah God on earth, the 3.5 year tribulation then starts
(70 future literal weeks explained)
(7 weeks) or 49 literal days will be in the commandment to build the wall and street in Jerusalem, this starts the clock ticking and preparation to build
(62 weeks) or 434 literal days will be in building the wall and street in Jerusalem, the building will stop when armies surround Jerusalem (Messiah Cut Off)
(1 week) The antichrist will be revealed in Jerusalem at this 70th week proclaiming to be Messiah God, the 3.5 year tribulation starts after this revealing
Jesus Is The Lord
This thread is a hoot. So many different views, but like the Highlander said "there can only be one". I suspect a few heads will roll before we figure this prophecy out.Your 70th week is decapitated, orphaned, undetermined...
And anti-Scriptural.
(1) The first part (7 weeks) relates to the rebuilding of Jerusalem.
(2) The second part (62 weeks) takes up to the beginning of Christ’s earthly ministry.
(3) The third part (1 week) begins with the start of Christ’s public ministry (AD 27) and sees the crucifixion half way through it (AD 30), which is the start of the clock of natural Israel’s probationary opportunity (40 yrs) to accept or reject the Messiah’s message and His once-all-sufficient atonement. The concluding 3 ½ yrs saw Israel’s wanton rejection of the once-all-sufficient atonement, the rebellious continuation of the NOW abolished order of Old Testament sacrifice (which is “the overspreading of abominations”). The Jews rebellion saw the destruction of their temple in AD 70 (which was 40 yrs later), which caused the termination of their now abolished temple sacrifices.
There is nothing described in Daniel 9 that necessarily needs to be fulfilled in the second 3 ½ years of the week. What this prophecy is essentially teaching is that those things predicted to occur in this prediction had to be completed within 70 weeks. It doesn't mean they had to take a full 70 weeks to complete. The 6 things predicted to be fulfilled in Christ obviously occurred in the first 3 ½ years of the week, mainly at the midpoint of it.
Saying all that, the Gospel message went out to Israel in the first 3 ½ years of the 70th week (as it had through the preceding ages), and bore significant fruit. After Christ's resurrection/ascent, there were 3 ½ years where the Church was shown to be protected before the persecution began after the 70th week (Revelation 12). The last 3 ½ yrs also saw the outworking of that atonement in faithful Israel (the remnant) with their baptism of fire for service at Pentecost in order to take the Gospel out to the darkened heathen world immediately after that.
This last 3 ½ yrs period ends with the stoning of Stephen and the subsequent persecution of the Church by Saul. Jesus then confronts Saul on the road to Damascus (Acts 9), and censures him for persecuting the Church. Saul is supernaturally converted, and changes his name to Paul. This happens in 34 AD. Through his conversion, the 70th week closes. Saul was then used as that notable tool to head-up the great commission to the Gentile world. Faithful Israel would then take the Gospel to the blinded nations.
Christian Gedge writes: “The cross was 7th April AD 30 and the weeks ended when the Holy Spirit was poured out on the Gentiles” (approximately Nisan AD 34 by my calculation).”
Shortly after that, Peter was instructed to go and preach to Cornelius and his family (Acts 10). It was at around the same time that Paul realized that his mission was to evangelize the Gentiles. Acts 13:45-48 says, “when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming. Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.”
The early church put high significance on the conversion of Cornelius (the first gentile) and I believe it delineates between the "times of Jacob" and the "times of the Gentiles." It also marks the completion of the 70 weeks which is of course, the final countdown of the last 70 assigned to Jacob.
quietthinker
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He that has will be given more and he that has not will have taken from him even what he thinks he has.....Jesus
Eternally Grateful
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dude, when you want to talk about prophecy, its meaning and its purpose let me know
Eternally Grateful
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Jesus called it the house of God
even though God had not been present in that temple in centuries.
Eternally Grateful
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23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
The vision is the time of the end vision about the little horn's 2300 day activities of Daniel 8, when Daniel first was visited by Gabriel.
The full 7 year 70th week is time of the end, which the 2300 days fit within.
The confirmation of the covenant by the prince that shall come will be the Mt. Sinai covenant, and the for 7 years are in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.
Those 7 years are in Ezekiel 39:9-10, following the Gog/Magog event. At the end of those 7 years, in Ezekiel 39:17-20 is the Armageddon event. And in Ezekiel 39:21-29, is Jesus Himself speaking in the text having returned to this earth, His future Second Coming.
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