Why Baptize a Baby?

[CoreIssue]

No.
The demons do not believe as I do.
Learn what believe meant at the time of the NT.
It is Not "belief plus obedience".
Belief Means obedience.

I don't know if you're lying or just ignorant.

Demons not only believe Jesus exists, they know he exists.

They most assuredly they neither have faith in Jesus or obey him.

Even when every knee shall bow that is not by submission, of by force, as in history when the conquered had to bow to the conqueror.

Believe new testament

The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 4100 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
pisteuvw from (4102)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Pisteuo 6:174,849
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
pist-yoo'-o Verb
Definition

1. to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
   1. of the thing believed
      1. to credit, have confidence
   2. in a moral or religious reference
      1. used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
      2. to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith 1bc) mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith
2. to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
   1. to be intrusted with a thing

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Ignorant people like YOU have been leveling charges of "paganism" against Christ's Church for 2 millenia now - ALWAYS without evidence and ALWAYS based on their own distortions.
Not only do you have ZERO evidence for your impotent claims - you don't even understand what "Sol Invictus" was all about . . .

Sol Invictus?
Is that the sun god you are holding in your avatar?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Sorry. You'll have to find different scripture to show One person that was baptized before believing.

I've already used the above, Acts 8, the story of the Ethiopean, to prove he WAS saved.
Study the verses.

Acts 10:44-47;

 

[GodsGrace]

Demons not only believe Jesus exists, they know he exists.

They most assuredly they neither have faith in Jesus or obey him.

Even when every knee shall bow that is not by submission, of by force, as in history when the conquered had to bow to the conqueror.

Believe new testament

The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 4100 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
pisteuvw from (4102)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Pisteuo 6:174,849
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
pist-yoo'-o Verb
Definition

1. to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
   1. of the thing believed
      1. to credit, have confidence
   2. in a moral or religious reference
      1. used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
      2. to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith 1bc) mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith
2. to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
   1. to be intrusted with a thing

Thanks CI
You've done @BreadOfLife s homework for him.
I certainly hope he appreciates it and now understands what believe means.

 

[GodsGrace]

Acts 10:44-47;

Good scripture.
Could you post it?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Good scripture.
Could you post it?

Yes, of course my dear...

Acts 10:44-47;
"
44 Even as Peter was saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who were listening to the message. 45 The Jewish believers who came with Peter were amazed that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles, too. 46 For they heard them speaking in other tongues
and praising God.

Then Peter asked, 47 “Can anyone object to their being baptized, now that they have received the Holy Spirit just as we did?”

Bible Gateway

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, of course my dear...

Acts 10:44-47;
"
44 Even as Peter was saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who were listening to the message. 45 The Jewish believers who came with Peter were amazed that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles, too. 46 For they heard them speaking in other tongues
and praising God.

Then Peter asked, 47 “Can anyone object to their being baptized, now that they have received the Holy Spirit just as we did?”

Bible Gateway

Good post.
Not only does the scripture show that a person must believe before being baptized,
But it also confirms that we receive the Holy Spirit at conversion....

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Good post.
Not only does the scripture show that a person must believe before being baptized,
But it also confirms that we receive the Holy Spirit at conversion....

maybe....

 

[GodsGrace]

maybe....

Why maybe?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Why maybe?

because the romanists will find some silly reason to protest it...

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

good night y'all....

 

[GodsGrace]

because the romanists will find some silly reason to protest it...

Can't protest the truth.
Night.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

(Seeking clarification on your beliefs here)
Describing a situation here--

A Christian couple raises their child 100% in the Gospel, teaching from scripture, praying, church every Sunday, etc. 100% upstanding example of Christian life for the entire family. Part of their faith is that believe in Christ is what saves, and a believer's baptism is symbolic of that rebirth in Christ. So they don't baptize their unbelieving infant. Instead they teach and encourage their child's spiritual development, and celebrate when that the young person does choose to accept Christ and be baptized.

Do you feel that such a family is Satanic because they believe in a believer's baptism?

No I would not say that such a family was Satanic, but from what I mainly see is that people think that it's ones family that thinks that that's up to the one that is too chooses, well that such is wrong because they are a family in God like the tribe of Judah, now one could not say that they were not of the tribe of Judah now could they ? no they were or until one was banished from the tribe, so no one of the tribe are as one within regardless and fact is that such would all say so with in that tribe.
If one thinks that one is to choose to be in that tribe then that does not make sense, it's like saying are you a citizen of your Nation or are you not ? you are born here, so you are under the wing of such until you leave or are cast out.

Baptized does not mean that you are saved but you are not lost within under Christian fellowship, the Baptized can be lead astray, but what people are doing is thinking that it's the Water baptising that saves, no ! it's what there to leads one to such, remember that John said that he was not worthy, but that it's Jesus we are talking about here that's the one who will Baptise with his Holy Spirit and that's the whole point that is hoped for, that one gets to that point of having the Holy Spirit, because water Baptism does not cut it and some people are thinking or claiming that it does.

So what if one believes in Jesus who he truly is, even the Devil him self believes, but when one has the Holy Spirit then one knows Jesus and lives within him as they you are as one in him, they have become Israel (the Servants of God) and are not just Judah (the People of God).
The people of God (Water baptised) do not know God they know of him but they do not know him personally, so they do not serve on that level that is in fact the Holy Spirit.

So why would one hold back the Water baptism from your family member when your a member of Christian community yourself, such sounds just like the indoctrinations workings of the freemasons to me and people who know not Jesus Christ is the King of Israel, that means the King of the Servants of God, because such know who he truly is and will truly serve him, but the Water Baptised only know of him but do not truly serve him because they only have faith of him, there faith does not cut it because it is only of little faith that has not matured into total Faith in Jesus alone as there Lord and Saviour and as the head of the Church the one we must only look to, because once you take your ways off him then you have not the Light.

Mans ego works do not cut it and people who think that oh my child will choose, are doing a miss justice because the faith in one will give much more conviction when a child knows that they were Baptised and the other way they are more easy lead into temptation for sure.
Freemasons think that everything is in steps, that is mans works ego driven madness and not of the Holy Spirit.
Freemason or the satanic type of delusional Christian says Oh look our child has made there decision and we are happy with that, X took greed and the corrupted world and X is going to Hell, how wonderful. I HAVE SEEN THIS CRAP SAID ! not the hell part, because they claim all will go to heaven. such is in fact the work of Satan.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

No I would not say that such a family was Satanic, but from what I mainly see is that people think that it's ones family that thinks that that's up to the one that is too chooses, well that such is wrong because they are a family in God like the tribe of Judah, now one could not say that they were not of the tribe of Judah now could they ? no they were or until one was banished from the tribe, so no one of the tribe are as one within regardless and fact is that such would all say so with in that tribe.
If one thinks that one is to choose to be in that tribe then that does not make sense, it's like saying are you a citizen of your Nation or are you not ? you are born here, so you are under the wing of such until you leave or are cast out.

Baptized does not mean that you are saved but you are not lost within under Christian fellowship, the Baptized can be lead astray, but what people are doing is thinking that it's the Water baptising that saves, no ! it's what there to leads one to such, remember that John said that he was not worthy, but that it's Jesus we are talking about here that's the one who will Baptise with his Holy Spirit and that's the whole point that is hoped for, that one gets to that point of having the Holy Spirit, because water Baptism does not cut it and some people are thinking or claiming that it does.

So what if one believes in Jesus who he truly is, even the Devil him self believes, but when one has the Holy Spirit then one knows Jesus and lives within him as they you are as one in him, they have become Israel (the Servants of God) and are not just Judah (the People of God).
The people of God (Water baptised) do not know God they know of him but they do not know him personally, so they do not serve on that level that is in fact the Holy Spirit.

So why would one hold back the Water baptism from your family member when your a member of Christian community yourself, such sounds just like the indoctrinations workings of the freemasons to me and people who know not Jesus Christ is the King of Israel, that means the King of the Servants of God, because such know who he truly is and will truly serve him, but the Water Baptised only know of him but do not truly serve him because they only have faith of him, there faith does not cut it because it is only of little faith that has not matured into total Faith in Jesus alone as there Lord and Saviour and as the head of the Church the one we must only look to, because once you take your ways off him then you have not the Light.

Mans ego works do not cut it and people who think that oh my child will choose, are doing a miss justice because the faith in one will give much more conviction when a child knows that they were Baptised and the other way they are more easy lead into temptation for sure.
Freemasons think that everything is in steps, that is mans works ego driven madness and not of the Holy Spirit.
Freemason or the satanic type of delusional Christian says Oh look our child has made there decision and we are happy with that, X took greed and the corrupted world and X is going to Hell, how wonderful. I HAVE SEEN THIS CRAP SAID ! not the hell part, because they claim all will go to heaven. such is in fact the work of Satan.

Your post here has a lot to go through so I'll try to pull out the big points here. In the likely event I am misunderstanding something here, please let me know. I very much want to understand your perspective here.

- You differentiate between the "People of God" and the "Servants of God".
-- The People of God are those that grew up in a Christian environment and were welcomed in via water baptism. Each individual may or may not be saved eventually-- they need to become also Servants of God first to be saved.
-- The Servants of God are those that have accepted Christ and the Holy Ghost. They personally know God and serve Him better.
-- People whom are not Servants of God don't have the Holy Ghost, don't personally know God, and are lesser servants.

(Back to baptism specifically)
- Water baptism itself doesn't save. A baptized person can go astray.
- A child growing up in a practicing Christian home is very good thing and should be encouraged.
-- Being baptized makes a person part of the People of God. It serves no other purpose.
-- You want babies to be part of the People of God, so you baptize them.
-- But you still feel that a person raised in a Christian environment without baptism is a good thing.
-- You didn't speak to your thoughts as to a child that is baptized but then raised in a non-practicing home.

Ok... I'm sure I got part of that wrong somewhere, but am I at least on the right track?

 

[Taken]

The SAME is true for Baptism.

This is why the ENTIRE FAMILIES of Cornelius, Stephanas and the Philippian Jailer were Baptized - including the servants.
This is why the Early Church Fathers said the FOLLOWING:

Thanks for sharing what applied to Men who believed...and their wives, children, and servants who had not been allowed IN the Temples, under the Old Covenant.

The Church Age was established BY Christ Jesus, under a NEW Covenant.

By your teaching, it sounds as if, your church still teaches, its members are still under the Old Covenant, that God provided for believing Hebrews and Jews.

Salvation, Purification, and receiving of the Holy Spirit IS a gift from God, given BY God, TO individuals, solely based on what is IN the persons Heart...

Attending Temples, Churches, Men speaking over other men, dipping in water, sprinkling another with water, the pomp and ceremonies is for the benefit of stiffnecked men to SEE something and has nothing to do with the Lord Gifting an individual with Salvation of the individuals SOUL and Quickening of the individuals SPIRIT.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[mjrhealth]

Can't protest the truth.
Night.

Really!, isnt that what is happening here.

Night

 

[Taken]

WHY are you so afraid of answering this SIMPLE question about circumcision that I have asked repeatedly??

I have not displayed fear of responding to your question. You were answered.

HOW

was circumcision valid if it was done by the word of the Parents??
HOW does a person validly enter into a Covenant with God when their PARENTS decide FOR them??
HOW does it work for circumcision and NOT Baptism??

Dude...you are steeped in your Gentile church teachings and rituals;
that MIXES the Old Covenant (given the Hebrews and Jews) with the New Covenant (given the Jews and Gentiles).

Under the Old Covenant, ONLY fathers attended Temple....not women, not wives, not children, not house servants.

The Rabbi's conducted the Temple Service. The men sat with their mouth shut and their ears open. What the men heard and believed, transferred to HIS FAMILY, by the man himself TEACHING HIS FAMILY (wives, children, servants).

The Circumcision of a male babies foreskin, was performed BY A father WHO was AGREEING with God Covenant, to Raise up his sons in the Word of God, that that son would be then PREPARED to grow up, and RAISE UP his own family IN THE WORD OF GOD.

Gods end of the Covenant, was to BLESS and SAVE the man and his family, "IF" THEY REMAINED in faith to God.

And the generations, one family with the father Head of the Family continued ....
Sons growing up, steeped in Gods Word, circumcising his sons, teaching his family, and they receiving blessings for their faith, and Salvation, should they continue in faith until their physical death.

I have seen you teach the SAME, as your church has taught you IS still NECESSARY for you to RECEIVE SALVATION.

Under the New Covenant, fathers, mothers, husbands, wives, children and servants, are all welcome to HEAR first hand the Word of God.

Under the New Covenant, fathers and mothers are to STILL required to expose and teach their children to the Word of God and His Precepts.

Under the New Covenant, the Lord SAVES individuals WHO individually CHOOSE to receive HIS GIFT of SALVATION and HIS GIFT of the HOLY SPIRIT.

They NO LONGER WAIT for the Gifts to be GIVEN THEM at the END of their natural lives.....THEY Receive the GIFTS after they have BEEN PREPARED to RECEIVE the Gifts.

The preparation of the INDIVIDUAL...is "BEGUN" by a Parent teaching the child "ABOUT" the Lord.

The preparation of the INDIVIDUAL child...
IS, continued BY THE INDIVIDUAL CHILD, who is Growing, aging, (hopefully) maturing
to CONTINUE LEARNING ABOUT THE LORD....

OR NOT...(in which case, the individual is fallen away from being ENLIGHTENED by the Word of God).

As the child is growing, aging, experiencing the world, believing, not believing, wondering, playing, working, exposed and participating in lying, cheating, injustice, etc..... he has opportunity...of his own volition to TURN to God, and again or for the first time; LEARN ABOUT GOD; Become ENLIGHTENED by the Spirit of Hearing Gods WORD.....and choose HIMSELF to Believe it OR NOT.....and choose HIMSELF to COMMIT his LIFE to the Lord....OR NOT.

A man WHO CHOOSES TO HEARTFULLY COMMIT His Life to the Lord ...
RECEIVES the Lords GIFT of FORGIVENESS, the Lord GIFT of SALVATION and the Lords GIFT of a QUICKENED SPIRIT and the Lords GIFT of His Spirit....

Those GIFTS are received unto THAT individual man, RIGHT THEN.
NOT at the END of his natural life.
NOT because someone else asked FOR HIM.
NOT because of Water or a Ceremony.
NOT because the man was sitting in a Church.
NOT because the man was a member of any particular man made Chruch.

The man received those GIFTS, because the man PROFESSED He Belief in the Lord, AND the man AGREED to receive the Lords Gifts.

And the Lord Himself has ASSURED the man, that the Lords OWN Spirit would KEEP the man FOREVER FAITHFUL unto:
Thee Lord God Almighty.

Foreskin Circumcision is a act of EARLY men performed in accordance with the OLD Covenant, men made with God, to raise up their own sons in the Word of God.

Gods Circumcision of the HEART, is a Circumcision God performs IN MEN, UNDER the New Covenant, when such men HAVE Chosen themselves, to give their Life to the Lord.

Water Baptism is a act performed in accordance with Gods Direction given John the Baptist to PREPARE men FOR the IDEA of Baptism, that was to BE REVEALED when Jesus was to become Manifested in the Flesh, for men to SEE, and He teaching of the Baptism of the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD, that was prepared for men to receive.....but that men COULD NOT SEE.

You should have LEARNED a long time ago...
The purpose and difference between...

Circumcisions and Baptisms MEN PERFORM...
(A foreshadow)
And circumcision and Baptism the Lord God Himself performs.
(Soul saving, and Spirit quickening, once and forever).

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[brakelite]

The people here that DO lie are the SAME ones who have been SHOWN with documented evidence that what they have said is untrue.

That works both ways doesn't it. You have been shown documents from the 16th century sourced from your church's own Vatican archives and are included in Canon Law... Which you have tried to pass off as a speech from yesterday from some random cookie.

 

[Taken]

WRONG.
Satan refused to SUBMIT to God.

No dude you are WRONG!!

You should brush up on the knowledge ABOUT Angels.

All Angels were CREATED Holy, and IN SUBMISSION TO GOD!

They were NOT LIKE HUMANS, "who are born in SIN, born NOT IN SUBMISSION TO GOD".

An Angel can not BECOME Greater than God.
An Angel can ONLY "REMAIN" a HOLY Angel, or "FALL" AWAY from God.

An Angel can not FALL AWAY and "THEN" Submit to God.

Lucifer was a Created Holy Angel, given great Powers. He is AN EXAMPLE, of one given great powers, "THOUGHT" he could BE Greater than God.

For Lucifers "THOUGHT" in his Heart, he was CAST OUT OF his first estate (Heaven), and DOWN TO Gods "FOOTSTOOL", (Earth), FALLEN down...
Now called a DEVIL, a LIAR, the father of LIES, Corrupt....and retained great powers, TO influence and corrupt "MEN" on EARTH, WHO REJECT "choosing to SUBMIT TO GOD"!

Read, Study and Learn the Truth...your accusations are WRONG!

Isa 14
[12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
[13] For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
[14] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Learn, Earth is only his First fall...
The Center of the Earth; HELL is his next and final estate, along with other angels who LEFT their first estate. (Heaven)

[15] Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Jude 1:6
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

A person with SSA can submit to God and never submit to their proclivity - and remain FREE of that sin.
A Heterosexual who doesn't engage in fornication is the EXACT SAME example.

No idea what SSA is or what you are babbling about.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[GodsGrace]

Your post here has a lot to go through so I'll try to pull out the big points here. In the likely event I am misunderstanding something here, please let me know. I very much want to understand your perspective here.

- You differentiate between the "People of God" and the "Servants of God".
-- The People of God are those that grew up in a Christian environment and were welcomed in via water baptism. Each individual may or may not be saved eventually-- they need to become also Servants of God first to be saved.
-- The Servants of God are those that have accepted Christ and the Holy Ghost. They personally know God and serve Him better.
-- People whom are not Servants of God don't have the Holy Ghost, don't personally know God, and are lesser servants.

(Back to baptism specifically)
- Water baptism itself doesn't save. A baptized person can go astray.
- A child growing up in a practicing Christian home is very good thing and should be encouraged.
-- Being baptized makes a person part of the People of God. It serves no other purpose.
-- You want babies to be part of the People of God, so you baptize them.
-- But you still feel that a person raised in a Christian environment without baptism is a good thing.
-- You didn't speak to your thoughts as to a child that is baptized but then raised in a non-practicing home.

Ok... I'm sure I got part of that wrong somewhere, but am I at least on the right track?

!! You're a better woman than I am!

I'm happy to confirm that Catholics themselves will tell you that being baptized alone will not save a person. They say that the baptism must be "accepted" at some point in the adult life - or the age of reason.

Before Constantine, only those in a Christian household were baptized, including the children. This made some sense since people were very devoted at that time...whole families went to the lions, think of it. The chances were that if one grew up in a Christian family, he would also become a Christian.

After Constantine, the church was truly corrupted, in my humble opinion.
Now EVERYONE in the state HAD to be baptized, and thus began what we could call mechanical Christianity? IOW, it began to be believed that if everyone just did what the church/state said, they would be saved.
Go to church
Go to confession
Be baptized
etc.

This was a corruption of Christianity. Baptism became meaningless.