Why can we dis Jesus but not the Holy Ghost?

[quietthinker]

Why can we dis Jesus but not the Holy Ghost?
You can't. If you think you can it's some other Ghost playing the fiddle.

 

[Taken]

Why can we dis Jesus but not the Holy Ghost?

You CAN, BECAUSE;

All natural born earthly men are BORN in Sin, meaning they are naturally born, NOT knowing of, NOT knowing, NOT Believing in God.

All natural born earthly man HAVE A natural bodily growing, aging, maturing process.

All natural born earthly men BEGIN hearing, being told, learning ABOUT a God, they can neither, SEE, HEAR, TOUCH.

All natural born earthly men Naturally DOUBT believing, what they can NOT, see, hear, touch.

Men are NOT punished for hearing, learning, doubting, wondering, ABOUT.......JESUS, who IS the WORD of God.

The Holy Ghost/Spirit......IS the POWER of God.
CHRIST..........................IS the POWER of God.

The POWER of God, IS NOT VISIBLE, SEEN by a mans EYES.
A human mans EYES, SEE the EFFECT, of Gods POWER.

* A man SEEING a lightening Strike, IS SEEING the EFFECT of Gods Power.
* A man SEEING a Dead man, Rise up back to a bodily living state, IS SEEING the EFFECT of Gods Power.
* A man SEEING (the Heard and Foretold Prophetic Word of God) Come into fruition, IS SEEING the EFFECT of Gods Power.
* A man SEEING a Tsunami, IS SEEING the EFFECT of Gods POWER.

Any man, Giving CREDIT OF Gods POWER handiworks, TO something, anything, other than God, HAS MADE something OTHER THAN GOD, more Powerful than God....AND in no way, shape or form, SHALL GOD Himself tolerate, HIS GREAT POWER, to be accredited to ANY other.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[quietthinker]

Why can we dis Jesus but not the Holy Ghost?

You CAN, BECAUSE;

All natural born earthly men are BORN in Sin, meaning they are naturally born, NOT knowing of, NOT knowing, NOT Believing in God.

All natural born earthly man HAVE A natural bodily growing, aging, maturing process.

All natural born earthly men BEGIN hearing, being told, learning ABOUT a God, they can neither, SEE, HEAR, TOUCH.

All natural born earthly men Naturally DOUBT believing, what they can NOT, see, hear, touch.

Men are NOT punished for hearing, learning, doubting, wondering, ABOUT.......JESUS, who IS the WORD of God.

The Holy Ghost/Spirit......IS the POWER of God.
CHRIST..........................IS the POWER of God.

The POWER of God, IS NOT VISIBLE, SEEN by a mans EYES.
A human mans EYES, SEE the EFFECT, of Gods POWER.

* A man SEEING a lightening Strike, IS SEEING the EFFECT of Gods Power.
* A man SEEING a Dead man, Rise up back to a bodily living state, IS SEEING the EFFECT of Gods Power.
* A man SEEING (the Heard and Foretold Prophetic Word of God) Come into fruition, IS SEEING the EFFECT of Gods Power.
* A man SEEING a Tsunami, IS SEEING the EFFECT of Gods POWER.

Any man, Giving CREDIT OF Gods POWER handiworks, TO something, anything, other than God, HAS MADE something OTHER THAN GOD, more Powerful than God....AND in no way, shape or form, SHALL GOD Himself tolerate, HIS GREAT POWER, to be accredited to ANY other.

Glory to God,
Taken

all neat and tidy, cut and tucked.....I'm impressed!
I s'pose I should apologise before I'm taken seriously

 

[Taken]

all neat and tidy, cut and tucked.....I'm impressed!
I s'pose I should apologise before I'm taken seriously

I do take you seriously. Seriously lacking Scriptural truths.

 

[quietthinker]

I do take you seriously. Seriously lacking Scriptural truths.

At least you have some humour even while you haven't a clue what I'm referencing.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Why can we dis Jesus but not the Holy Ghost?

Matt 12:32,

And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come.
​

Aren't they both supposedly God? Scripture references would help.

simple and complete answer? Because God said so. anything added to that is guesswork on our pat and is anywhere from 0-100% wrong.

 

[Rich R]

simple and complete answer? Because God said so. anything added to that is guesswork on our pat and is anywhere from 0-100% wrong.

Good point. I'd say guessing about scripture is much closer to 100% wrong than 0%. It seldom works out.

 

[atpollard]

Jesus has a sense of humor ... the Holy Spirit (not so much)? ;)

[it was a joke]

 

[Berserk]

Blaspheming Jesus is forgivable because the blasphemer may honestly believe Jesus to be a deluded fool. But if I watch Jesus exorcising someone and the Spirit makes me aware that a loving God is behind that exorcism, then I am blaspheming against something I know in my heart is godly because the Spirit reveals this to me. Still, the meaning of the unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit is not entirely clear from our Gospels. So it is at least relevant to note who this sin is understood in the Christianity of the late first century: "Do not test or examine any prophet who is speaking in the Spirit. For every sin shall be forgiven, but this sin shall not be forgiven ( The Teachig of the Twelve Apostles 11:7)." In other words, if the Spirit confirms to my spirit that He is speaking through a genuine prophetic word and I disrespect that Word, then I'm hardening my heart to receive any guidance from the Spirit. The thought is similar to this teaching about the Holy Spirit from Hebrews:

"It is impossible to renew unto repentance those who have once been enlightened and have tasted the heavenly gift, AND HAVE SHARED IN THE HOLY SPIRIT, and have tasted the goodness of the Word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, since on their own they are crucifying again the Son of God and are holding Him up for contempt Heb. 6:4-6)."

Strictly speaking, we experience not Christ, but the Holy Spirit who represents the Christ who intercedes for us at the right hand of the Father. But when the Spirit confirms God's Word to us, then we know deep down that his experience is true and our rejection of what we know to be true can permanently alienate us from the Holy Spirit and therefore from divine forgiveness.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Why can we dis Jesus but not the Holy Ghost?

Matt 12:32,

And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come.
Aren't they both supposedly God? Scripture references would help.

I’m not sure if anyone has posted this passage, but it is another to me that has helped regarding your topic. Mostly because Christ said often if the hate Son, they also [both] hate The Father who sent the Son.

‘Woe to you blind guides,
Who say, whoever swears by the temple, [that is nothing]
But whoever swears by the gold of the temple is obligated.

You fools and blind men!
Which is more important,
The gold
Or the temple (The Holy Spirit) that sanctifies the gold (the Son).

And whoever swears by the altar, [that it is nothing],
But whoever swears by the offering on it, he is obligated.

You blind men, which is more important,
The offering, (the Son)
Or the altar (the Holy Spirit) that sanctifies the (Son) offering.

therefore whoever swears by the alter, (He who sanctifies) swears [both] by the altar and everything on it. —
Whoever hates me, hates My Father also.

And whoever swears [both] by the temple and by Him who dwells within it.

And whoever swears
By heaven swears, [both] by the throne of God and by Him who sits upon it. Matthew 23:22



(Imo) all are good questions still relevant today:

Which is more important,
The offering,
Or the altar that sanctifies the offering?

Which is more important,
The gold
Or the temple that sanctifies the gold?

 

[Rich R]

Blaspheming Jesus is forgivable because the blasphemer may honestly believe Jesus to be a deluded fool. But if I watch Jesus exorcising someone and the Spirit makes me aware that a loving God is behind that exorcism, then I am blaspheming against something I know in my heart is godly because the Spirit reveals this to me. Still, the meaning of the unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit is not entirely clear from our Gospels. So it is at least relevant to note who this sin is understood in the Christianity of the late first century: "Do not test or examine any prophet who is speaking in the Spirit. For every sin shall be forgiven, but this sin shall not be forgiven ( The Teachig of the Twelve Apostles 11:7)." In other words, if the Spirit confirms to my spirit that He is speaking through a genuine prophetic word and I disrespect that Word, then I'm hardening my heart to receive any guidance from the Spirit. The thought is similar to this teaching about the Holy Spirit from Hebrews:

"It is impossible to renew unto repentance those who have once been enlightened and have tasted the heavenly gift, AND HAVE SHARED IN THE HOLY SPIRIT, and have tasted the goodness of the Word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, since on their own they are crucifying again the Son of God and are holding Him up for contempt Heb. 6:4-6)."

Strictly speaking, we experience not Christ, but the Holy Spirit who represents the Christ who intercedes for us at the right hand of the Father. But when the Spirit confirms God's Word to us, then we know deep down that his experience is true and our rejection of what we know to be true can permanently alienate us from the Holy Spirit and therefore from divine forgiveness.

I think that the unforgivable sin is being born again of the devil's seed, the proverbial "selling your soul to the devil."

All birth is the result of seed. Genesis chapter 1 is clear that seed always produces an offspring with the same nature as the parent.

Gen 1:11-12,

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, [and] the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed [is] in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, [and] herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed [was] in itself, after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.
​

The seed from a dog (sperm) will always produce another dog. Likewise for a cat, cow, oak tree, rose bush, etc. It goes without saying that a puppy, having been born as a result of dog seed, will always be a dog. The puppy can't suddenly become a cat. Seed seals one's nature, whether plant or animal.

1 Pet 1:23,

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
​

Christians are born again of incorruptible seed. Not just seed, but incorruptible seed. Once we are sons or daughters of God, there's no going back. The child of God will always be God's child. The fact Peter qualifies seed as incorruptible really seals the deal big time. Just seed would be enough, but incorruptible seed just makes it that much stronger.

Now, to the unforgivable sin. Jesus was speaking to certain scribes and Pharisees when he said,

John 8:44,

Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.​

Jesus said these scribes and Pharisees were children of the devil. The only way that happens is by seed. In other words, they were born again, not of God's incorruptible seed, but of the devil's seed. They sold their soul to the devil. They did his will, not God's. Like the puppy can never become a cat, a child of the devil can never become anything other than a child of the devil. Such people of course have no hope of entering the paradise Jesus will establish when he returns as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, hence it is an unforgivable sin.

As a side note, I think that since Christians are born again of incorruptible seed, that means they are, and always will be, children of God. Like any earthly child may well disappoint their father by bad behavior, so it is with God. We can disappoint Him, but we can't become "unborn" again. Seed is seed.

A Christian's bad behavior will cost them rewards at the judgment, but they will still be with Jesus forever.

1Cor 3:11-16,

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.​

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?​

The Christian's behavior in this life determines the rewards they will receive in the coming kingdom. Bad behavior, few rewards; good behavior, many rewards. But in either case, the born again Christian will spend eternity in paradise with Jesus

1 Thess 4:16-17,

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
​

Now I understand there are verses that might seem to say Christians can loose their salvation. If there were verses that actually did say that, then we would have a huge contradiction in the Bible, since Peter & Paul were quite clear in their declarations that we are born again, not of normal seed (which would be good enough), but of incorruptible seed, as well as Paul saying we will be saved even if our bad works are burned off.

I would suggest that the verses that appear to say we can loose it need to be understood in the light of these quite clear verses that say just the opposite. One hint: to whom is God speaking when He says something? Is He speaking to Jews under law or to Christians under grace? There is a huge difference. Also, when did God speak? Was it before Jesus rose from the dead, or before he rose from the dead. The new birth of incorruptible seed was not available until the Day of Pentecost. The scriptures describe several times that a person in the OT could loose their spirit of God, whereas the New Testament is clear in saying that the Christian is sealed with holy spirit.

Eph 1:13,

In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,​

There's more to it, but that's a good start I think.

 

[Behold]

Why can we dis Jesus but not the Holy Ghost?

They are the same.

The NT says that "Christ The LORD, is that Spirit". 2 Corinthians 3:17

So, when you "dis" Jesus you are blaspheming the Spirit.

However, there is something else.

There is "Blasphemy OF the Spirit", and there is "Blasphemy AGAINST, the Spirit".

One is to deny and one is to insult.

A denier is this...... John 3:36

The insulter is this...>>"Jesus you are doing your miracles by the Power of the Devil".

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Why can we dis Jesus but not the Holy Ghost?

Matt 12:32,

And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come.
​

Aren't they both supposedly God? Scripture references would help.

The Holy Spirit testifies to the world through the Word and through various signs, miracles, and wonders about the truth of Jesus. To reject the testimony of the Holy Spirit is to call the Holy Spirit a liar:

"6...it is the Spirit who testifies to this, because the Spirit is the truth. 9...this is the testimony that God has given about His Son. 10...whoever does not believe God has made Him (the Holy Spirit) out to be a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony (of the Holy Spirit) that God has given about His Son." 1 John 5:6-10​

The nature of the unforgivable part is you can't reject the Holy Spirit through which a person receives the faith to believe and be saved and that person somehow still be saved. You can be wrong about the nature of Christ and various other things about him and still be saved. But you can not reject the testimony of the Holy Spirit about salvation itself and be saved. It is an eternal sin that God makes no tolerance for whatsoever. You can never have the benefit of a Sacrifice that you reject. It's an unforgivable sin. No sacrifice exists to pay for the sin of rejecting the only sacrifice for sin there is. The Pharisees were doing that when they knowingly rejected the testimony of the Spirit speaking through Jesus' miracles.

 

[Behold]

The nature of the unforgivable part is you can't reject the Holy Spirit through which a person receives the faith to believe and be saved and that person somehow still be saved. .

The reason what you said is a Cross rejecting lie, is because the Holy Spirit has already BIRTHED the believer's spirit, into God's Spirit.
So, you are teaching that this can be reversed, yet God would have to reverse it and He is not going to reverse what He has paid for with the Blood of Jesus.
THe Bride of Christ remain the bride.
The body of Christ is an eternal body.
The redeemed by the blood of the Lamb, are "blood bought", and that is eternal.
So, that is truly some blasphemy against what that Holy Spirit has accomplished you are teaching, Ferris.
Its interesting that you have no other reason to be on a forum like this one then to try to lie to believers about the finished work of Christ on the Cross, hoping you can ruin someone's salvation.

Listen, all believers are already = "in Christ'. "seated in Heavenly places"..."ONE with God'.

like this...

"As Jesus IS.....so are the born again in this World".

This is not going to change.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The reason what you said is a Cross rejecting lie, is because the Holy Spirit has already BIRTHED the believer's spirit, into God's Spirit.
So, you are teaching that this can be reversed, yet God would have to reverse it and He is not going to reverse what He has paid for with the Blood of Jesus.

You can think what you want about whether the unbeliever ever really believed and was born again or not. That does not change the fact that no unbeliever will ever inherit the kingdom of God. An unbeliever is neither born again nor saved. This is Christianity 101. Anybody is free to ponder the meaningless argument of whether or not the Christ rejecting, lost, unsaved, not born again person was ever saved to begin with. It does not change the fact that unbelievers will not enter into the kingdom of God at the end of the age.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

"As Jesus IS.....so are the born again in this World".

Jesus was not an unbeliever.
So if a person is an unbeliever they are not of Jesus. Jesus was not like that in this world.

 

[Behold]

That does not change the fact that no unbeliever will ever inherit the kingdom of God.

The KOG is in the Born again, who are "ONE with God", "In Christ". Luke 17:21
Reason?
God has given them the new birth, = Born again.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

THe Bride of Christ remain the bride.
The body of Christ is an eternal body.
The redeemed by the blood of the Lamb, are "blood bought", and that is eternal.

The blood bought, body and bride of Christ are BELIEVERS, not unbelievers.
Your horrible gospel of unbelievers being in Christ is a complete and utter joke.
Only unbelievers are attracted to such a ridiculous doctrine. That's why all your work in the field and building of God will be burned up in the coming Judgment of fire. You're not raising up people who will make it through that fire. You have no reward waiting for your labor in the field and building of God. If I were you I'd do a little self examination to see if you're even a true believer yourself!

 

[Behold]

Jesus was not an unbeliever.
So if a person is an unbeliever they are not of Jesus. Jesus was not like that in this world.

All the born again, are "ONE with God"... This makes them "IN Christ".

Result?

"As JESUS IS......so are the born again, IN THIS World".

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The KOG is in the Born again, who are "ONE with God", "In Christ". Luke 17:21
Reason?
God has given them the new birth, = Born again.

And born again people ARE NOT UNBELIEVERS.