I have been reading all the threads re: rapture and have gained some very insightful knowledge from most posters with the exception being jodycour. Everyone else seems to back up their statements rather right or wrong. Thanks to all of you for a great lesson. Donnie
Why Christians wont go through the tribulation
- Thread starter Alanforchrist
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(DONNIE;36749)
I have been reading all the threads re: rapture and have gained some very insightful knowledge from most posters with the exception being jodycour. Everyone else seems to back up their statements rather right or wrong. Thanks to all of you for a great lesson. Donnie
Usually when I make a statement like this, is when I'm tired of arguing!
I have been reading all the threads re: rapture and have gained some very insightful knowledge from most posters with the exception being jodycour. Everyone else seems to back up their statements rather right or wrong. Thanks to all of you for a great lesson. Donnie
Usually when I make a statement like this, is when I'm tired of arguing!
(jodycour;36747)
I have and your very wrong!
Jody...they are right. There is no rapture. We are all changed at His 2nd Advent, the 7th trump. We will all go through the tribulation but please realize it is spiritual in nature...not physical. Satan wants you to worship him.At least prepare by knowing that Satan comes first in the role of Christ. If you are in a flesh body then don't listen to the one pretending to be our Saviour..........Whirlwind
I have and your very wrong!
Jody...they are right. There is no rapture. We are all changed at His 2nd Advent, the 7th trump. We will all go through the tribulation but please realize it is spiritual in nature...not physical. Satan wants you to worship him.At least prepare by knowing that Satan comes first in the role of Christ. If you are in a flesh body then don't listen to the one pretending to be our Saviour..........Whirlwind
Sorry I don't believe that we will stay here.It doesn't matter too me when the rapture takes place, the fact is we will betaken up into the clouds just as Paul stated in Thessalonians.No I will not be decieved by the anti-christ.No, it won't be a secret rapture. It will be a very public catching away into the clouds to be with our Lord Jesus even if it is after the 7th Trump.Other wise why does the word tell us that the dead in christ will rise first, then those who remain will be caught up to be with them in the air to be with our Lord?
(jodycour;36938)
Sorry I don't believe that we will stay here.It doesn't matter too me when the rapture takes place, the fact is we will betaken up into the clouds just as Paul stated in Thessalonians.No I will not be decieved by the anti-christ.No, it won't be a secret rapture. It will be a very public catching away into the clouds to be with our Lord Jesus even if it is after the 7th Trump.Other wise why does the word tell us that the dead in christ will rise first, then those who remain will be caught up to be with them in the air to be with our Lord?
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Do you understand these verses?
Sorry I don't believe that we will stay here.It doesn't matter too me when the rapture takes place, the fact is we will betaken up into the clouds just as Paul stated in Thessalonians.No I will not be decieved by the anti-christ.No, it won't be a secret rapture. It will be a very public catching away into the clouds to be with our Lord Jesus even if it is after the 7th Trump.Other wise why does the word tell us that the dead in christ will rise first, then those who remain will be caught up to be with them in the air to be with our Lord?
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Do you understand these verses?
Jody for the umteenth time its not whether you buy this Pre- trib rapture stuff of men its that you refuse to read the next letter telling you when this gathering to him is. you act like you are following scripture but you are only following half of it. The danger we are warning you of is because Antichrist comes first and he will look like christ be saying he is christ And sense you refuse to hear God who tells you antichrist comes first when you see this man pretending to be christ and you are still here because its only the 6th trump you will believe his lies he will most likely promise you rapture and you will believe him and follow the fake Why??? will you do this because you will not read the letter of when God says this gathering to him will beI have tried to tell you this for what a year and every time you get to start understand Gods word on it you run back to men and chooose to listen to them ,your choice but dont tell us you wont be fooled when you dont even get what Antichrist will be saying and when hes coming how do you think you will know him he isnt going to be wearing a red suit so you will know him he will be preaching the twisted Word of God and looking like christ and performing miracles so tell me if you dont know when hes coming how do you think you will know him????????????
(Wayne Murray;36941)
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Do you understand these verses?
Funny Thing is, the Falling away seems to be so close with an inquisition. And this Son of Perdition has put himself above all leaders of this World. Has called himself the Holder for the Son of God until his Coming. He gathered many religions and has put forth a campaign of peace saying that all gods equate to the ONE TRUE GOD. He's sided with Esau instead of Jacob. He Controls the Harlot(A CHURCH) and her daughters(Denominations). He has yet to take Control of Natural Israel. Any Guess who this is?
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Do you understand these verses?
Funny Thing is, the Falling away seems to be so close with an inquisition. And this Son of Perdition has put himself above all leaders of this World. Has called himself the Holder for the Son of God until his Coming. He gathered many religions and has put forth a campaign of peace saying that all gods equate to the ONE TRUE GOD. He's sided with Esau instead of Jacob. He Controls the Harlot(A CHURCH) and her daughters(Denominations). He has yet to take Control of Natural Israel. Any Guess who this is?
(jodycour;35516)
There You go again tying one scripture into another.I looked up the scripture in the Strongs dictionary and the word Clouds in the scripture that says that we will be caught up into the clouds does not mention a thing about a throng!
He's Right about the Cloud Being Us, a Throng, a Collection of People, BUT HE GOT THE WORD AIR WRONG, Look it up for yourself G1091) the air, particularly the lower and denser air as distinguished from the higher and rarer air2) the atmospheric regionSpecifically Speaking of the Atmospheric Region. So those of you that don't believe in the Cloud Meeting, you're Right, IT'S US MEETING HIM. And in the Air, here means in the Atmospheric Region. Where he is.
There You go again tying one scripture into another.I looked up the scripture in the Strongs dictionary and the word Clouds in the scripture that says that we will be caught up into the clouds does not mention a thing about a throng!
He's Right about the Cloud Being Us, a Throng, a Collection of People, BUT HE GOT THE WORD AIR WRONG, Look it up for yourself G1091) the air, particularly the lower and denser air as distinguished from the higher and rarer air2) the atmospheric regionSpecifically Speaking of the Atmospheric Region. So those of you that don't believe in the Cloud Meeting, you're Right, IT'S US MEETING HIM. And in the Air, here means in the Atmospheric Region. Where he is.
(kriss;36943)
Jody for the umteenth time its not whether you buy this Pre- trib rapture stuff of men its that you refuse to read the next letter telling you when this gathering to him is. you act like you are following scripture but you are only following half of it. The danger we are warning you of is because Antichrist comes first and he will look like christ be saying he is christ And sense you refuse to hear God who tells you antichrist comes first when you see this man pretending to be christ and you are still here because its only the 6th trump you will believe his lies he will most likely promise you rapture and you will believe him and follow the fake Why??? will you do this because you will not read the letter of when God says this gathering to him will beI have tried to tell you this for what a year and every time you get to start understand Gods word on it you run back to men and chooose to listen to them ,your choice but dont tell us you wont be fooled when you dont even get what Antichrist will be saying and when hes coming how do you think you will know him he isnt going to be wearing a red suit so you will know him he will be preaching the twisted Word of God and looking like christ and performing miracles so tell me if you dont know when hes coming how do you think you will know him????????????
Actually Kriss,I'm not following the doctrines of men.Actually this forum is the first time that I have ever heard of any one speaking against the rapture. I've been study Word of God and living this Christian life since 1983.This is the first time that I've heard of the teaching that you guys are presenting on this forum.With this in mind, no I don't just go running after any man's doctrine.The problem I have is why did Paul even mention any thing about being caught up to be with Jesus?Why did he even mention the fact that the dead in Christ will rise first then those of us who remain will go to be with our Lord I Thessalonians 5:14-17I know you've already tried to explain this away to me already, by claimng that he did away with it in II Thess. But there must be something to this or he would not even have bothered speaking about it. He was a very intelligent man. The reason he did the correction about the issue in II Thessalonians is there where some flaky people going around saying that Jesus had already come. But that is it!No I will not be decieved by the man of perdition.But concerning this I believe that he is talking about the church being taken out of the way so that the anti-christ can have his way here on the earth. But I know that you don't agree with this, you've already argued your point concerning this.If there is something here that I am missing here then the Holy Spirit will have to reveal it too me.So far you haven't persuaded me of everything that you believe. You have made some very interesting points, but the Holy Spirit has not yet revealed too me about what your talking about is right.I still enjoy debating with you guys though!
Jody for the umteenth time its not whether you buy this Pre- trib rapture stuff of men its that you refuse to read the next letter telling you when this gathering to him is. you act like you are following scripture but you are only following half of it. The danger we are warning you of is because Antichrist comes first and he will look like christ be saying he is christ And sense you refuse to hear God who tells you antichrist comes first when you see this man pretending to be christ and you are still here because its only the 6th trump you will believe his lies he will most likely promise you rapture and you will believe him and follow the fake Why??? will you do this because you will not read the letter of when God says this gathering to him will beI have tried to tell you this for what a year and every time you get to start understand Gods word on it you run back to men and chooose to listen to them ,your choice but dont tell us you wont be fooled when you dont even get what Antichrist will be saying and when hes coming how do you think you will know him he isnt going to be wearing a red suit so you will know him he will be preaching the twisted Word of God and looking like christ and performing miracles so tell me if you dont know when hes coming how do you think you will know him????????????
Actually Kriss,I'm not following the doctrines of men.Actually this forum is the first time that I have ever heard of any one speaking against the rapture. I've been study Word of God and living this Christian life since 1983.This is the first time that I've heard of the teaching that you guys are presenting on this forum.With this in mind, no I don't just go running after any man's doctrine.The problem I have is why did Paul even mention any thing about being caught up to be with Jesus?Why did he even mention the fact that the dead in Christ will rise first then those of us who remain will go to be with our Lord I Thessalonians 5:14-17I know you've already tried to explain this away to me already, by claimng that he did away with it in II Thess. But there must be something to this or he would not even have bothered speaking about it. He was a very intelligent man. The reason he did the correction about the issue in II Thessalonians is there where some flaky people going around saying that Jesus had already come. But that is it!No I will not be decieved by the man of perdition.But concerning this I believe that he is talking about the church being taken out of the way so that the anti-christ can have his way here on the earth. But I know that you don't agree with this, you've already argued your point concerning this.If there is something here that I am missing here then the Holy Spirit will have to reveal it too me.So far you haven't persuaded me of everything that you believe. You have made some very interesting points, but the Holy Spirit has not yet revealed too me about what your talking about is right.I still enjoy debating with you guys though!
2nd thess doesnt do away with 1st thess Jody it clarifies it thats the point how do you say its scripture no one ever taught this pre trib rapture Christ nor any apostel nor does the Bible thats why it is called a THEROYTheroys are ideas that have no proof it is only a possable reason God does not deal in Theroys He deals in facts and the facts do not support any Pre Trib Rapture thats why no one ever taught it untill 1830"s when some crazy women had a dream its only been wide spread in the church for about 40 years. It is strickly a theroy of men.Do you believe God expects to follow Theroys That are not in scripture??? Frankly it is only followed widely in America
(Unorthodox Christian;36953)
He's Right about the Cloud Being Us, a Throng, a Collection of People, BUT HE GOT THE WORD AIR WRONG, Look it up for yourself G1091) the air, particularly the lower and denser air as distinguished from the higher and rarer air2) the atmospheric regionSpecifically Speaking of the Atmospheric Region. So those of you that don't believe in the Cloud Meeting, you're Right, IT'S US MEETING HIM. And in the Air, here means in the Atmospheric Region. Where he is.
G109ἀήρaērah-ayr'From ἄημι aēmi (to breathe unconsciously, that is, respire; by analogy to blow); “air” (as naturally circumambient): - air. Compare G5594.G5594ψύχωpsuchōpsoo'-khoA primary verb; to breathe (voluntarily but gently; thus differing on the one hand from G4154, which denotes properly a forcible respiration; and on the other from the base of G109, which refers properly to an inanimate breeze), that is, (by implication of reduction of temperature by evaporation) to chill (figuratively): - wax cold.
He's Right about the Cloud Being Us, a Throng, a Collection of People, BUT HE GOT THE WORD AIR WRONG, Look it up for yourself G1091) the air, particularly the lower and denser air as distinguished from the higher and rarer air2) the atmospheric regionSpecifically Speaking of the Atmospheric Region. So those of you that don't believe in the Cloud Meeting, you're Right, IT'S US MEETING HIM. And in the Air, here means in the Atmospheric Region. Where he is.
G109ἀήρaērah-ayr'From ἄημι aēmi (to breathe unconsciously, that is, respire; by analogy to blow); “air” (as naturally circumambient): - air. Compare G5594.G5594ψύχωpsuchōpsoo'-khoA primary verb; to breathe (voluntarily but gently; thus differing on the one hand from G4154, which denotes properly a forcible respiration; and on the other from the base of G109, which refers properly to an inanimate breeze), that is, (by implication of reduction of temperature by evaporation) to chill (figuratively): - wax cold.
(Wayne Murray;36963)
G109ἀήρaērah-ayr'From ἄημι aēmi (to breathe unconsciously, that is, respire; by analogy to blow); “air” (as naturally circumambient): - air. Compare G5594.G5594ψύχωpsuchōpsoo'-khoA primary verb; to breathe (voluntarily but gently; thus differing on the one hand from G4154, which denotes properly a forcible respiration; and on the other from the base of G109, which refers properly to an inanimate breeze), that is, (by implication of reduction of temperature by evaporation) to chill (figuratively): - wax cold.
G5594 Wasn't Used in 1st Thessalonians G109 Was
G109ἀήρaērah-ayr'From ἄημι aēmi (to breathe unconsciously, that is, respire; by analogy to blow); “air” (as naturally circumambient): - air. Compare G5594.G5594ψύχωpsuchōpsoo'-khoA primary verb; to breathe (voluntarily but gently; thus differing on the one hand from G4154, which denotes properly a forcible respiration; and on the other from the base of G109, which refers properly to an inanimate breeze), that is, (by implication of reduction of temperature by evaporation) to chill (figuratively): - wax cold.
G5594 Wasn't Used in 1st Thessalonians G109 Was
(Alanforchrist;38911)
You are either deliberatley misquoting scripture or showing your ingnorance.
Now that is ridicoulous he has obviously simply used the scripture copied it as it is written how can that be misquoting? If you choose not to believe scripture your choice but do not say by quoting exact scripture he is misquoting. there is and never was any scripture to support a Pre trib rapture Theroy if you want to deny exact scripture to believe a lie your choice but do not call Gods scriptures as written misquoting
You are either deliberatley misquoting scripture or showing your ingnorance.
Now that is ridicoulous he has obviously simply used the scripture copied it as it is written how can that be misquoting? If you choose not to believe scripture your choice but do not say by quoting exact scripture he is misquoting. there is and never was any scripture to support a Pre trib rapture Theroy if you want to deny exact scripture to believe a lie your choice but do not call Gods scriptures as written misquoting
(thesuperjag;34987)
Matthew 24:29-30 - Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.Mark 13:24-26 - But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.John 16:33 - These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
You forgot about the pre-trib rapture, V 27--28, You only quoted, the post trib rapture. v29--31. Isn't that taking away?? what does Revelation 22: 1--19 say about adding to, or taking away.you are either misquoting scripture to fit in with what you want to believe, or showing your ingnorance.
Matthew 24:29-30 - Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.Mark 13:24-26 - But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.John 16:33 - These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
You forgot about the pre-trib rapture, V 27--28, You only quoted, the post trib rapture. v29--31. Isn't that taking away?? what does Revelation 22: 1--19 say about adding to, or taking away.you are either misquoting scripture to fit in with what you want to believe, or showing your ingnorance.
you are either misquoting scripture to fit in with what you want to believe, or showing your ingnorance.
He could have left it out by mistake....I have issues with this Pre-Trib and Post Trib stuff but thats another thread and I don't think Jag would have knowingly misquoted scripture.
He could have left it out by mistake....I have issues with this Pre-Trib and Post Trib stuff but thats another thread and I don't think Jag would have knowingly misquoted scripture.
There is no Pre - rapture there is only a changing at the 7th trump No bible scholar or person has ever found pre_trib rapture in scripture it is strickly a theroy of men forgetting to quote a scripture is not misquoting. You have to completly ignore the rest of scripture to believe 1Thess. is talking about any Pre trib rapture study the history of Thess. It was a misunderstanding by a Church that was literally three weeks Old and mixed between Jews and Gentiles Thus the need for the second letter to explain the gathering to the Lord at the last 7th trump.
(kriss;38915)
Now that is ridicoulous he has obviously simply used the scripture copied it as it is written how can that be misquoting? If you choose not to believe scripture your choice but do not say by quoting exact scripture he is misquoting. there is and never was any scripture to support a Pre trib rapture Theroy if you want to deny exact scripture to believe a lie your choice but do not call Gods scriptures as written misquoting
If you noticed where he started Matt 24: from, He conveniently left out the pre-trib rapture, Either misquoting to fit his own beliefs, or is ingnorant of the Bilical truth of the pre-trib rapture.He was saying that there is "No pre-trib rapture" and gave no scripture to back it up, when you make a statement you have to give scipture to back it up. You can't take scripture out of context to suit your own beliefs,
Now that is ridicoulous he has obviously simply used the scripture copied it as it is written how can that be misquoting? If you choose not to believe scripture your choice but do not say by quoting exact scripture he is misquoting. there is and never was any scripture to support a Pre trib rapture Theroy if you want to deny exact scripture to believe a lie your choice but do not call Gods scriptures as written misquoting
If you noticed where he started Matt 24: from, He conveniently left out the pre-trib rapture, Either misquoting to fit his own beliefs, or is ingnorant of the Bilical truth of the pre-trib rapture.He was saying that there is "No pre-trib rapture" and gave no scripture to back it up, when you make a statement you have to give scipture to back it up. You can't take scripture out of context to suit your own beliefs,
(Two;38914)
I know I am going to regret asking this but whats wrong with what Jag posted?
Dear Two, I am fully aware of the fact that I did not misquote scriptures, so you and I shall take comfort of His Word... the Living Word.(Two;38921)
(Alanforchrist;38919)
you are either misquoting scripture to fit in with what you want to believe, or showing your ingnorance.
He could have left it out by mistake....I have issues with this Pre-Trib and Post Trib stuff but thats another thread and I don't think Jag would have knowingly misquoted scripture.To be clearly put...1. Scriptures clearly say that Christ is coming after the Tribulation.2. The word Rapture no where exists in the Word of God. And yes, I do get technical, because I do not like using words to teach Truth that God never used to begin with.(Kriss;38915)
(Alanforchrist;38911)
You are either deliberatley misquoting scripture or showing your ingnorance.
Now that is ridicoulous he has obviously simply used the scripture copied it as it is written how can that be misquoting? If you choose not to believe scripture your choice but do not say by quoting exact scripture he is misquoting. there is and never was any scripture to support a Pre trib rapture Theroy if you want to deny exact scripture to believe a lie your choice but do not call Gods scriptures as written misquoting
Alan, if you want to be ignorant, that's fine by me, as scripture say to let you remain ignorant.I Corinthians 14:38 - But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
I know I am going to regret asking this but whats wrong with what Jag posted?
Dear Two, I am fully aware of the fact that I did not misquote scriptures, so you and I shall take comfort of His Word... the Living Word.(Two;38921)
(Alanforchrist;38919)
you are either misquoting scripture to fit in with what you want to believe, or showing your ingnorance.
He could have left it out by mistake....I have issues with this Pre-Trib and Post Trib stuff but thats another thread and I don't think Jag would have knowingly misquoted scripture.To be clearly put...1. Scriptures clearly say that Christ is coming after the Tribulation.2. The word Rapture no where exists in the Word of God. And yes, I do get technical, because I do not like using words to teach Truth that God never used to begin with.(Kriss;38915)
(Alanforchrist;38911)
You are either deliberatley misquoting scripture or showing your ingnorance.
Now that is ridicoulous he has obviously simply used the scripture copied it as it is written how can that be misquoting? If you choose not to believe scripture your choice but do not say by quoting exact scripture he is misquoting. there is and never was any scripture to support a Pre trib rapture Theroy if you want to deny exact scripture to believe a lie your choice but do not call Gods scriptures as written misquoting
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