Why Cold-Case Skills Can Help You Examine Christianity

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Matthias

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I once attended a workshop on how to use certain tools and methodologies to analyze computer hardware and software failures long after the conditions that produced the failures were gone.

That sounds different than analyzing written reports prepared by human persons who were themselves eyewitnesses of supernatural events surrounding Jesus or who were preserving in writing the eyewitness accounts given to them by persons who were.

The lead guru remarked that forensic failure analysis was akin to looking at some rumpled bedsheets and trying to determine if it was for love or money.

That‘s humorous but it doesn’t inspire much confidence in the application of the tool to aid evaluation of that particular problem.

***

The simple point of my thread is that people put things in writing which can then be carefully analyzed for signs of truthfulness and signs of falsehood. I started the thread with a particular agnostic member in mind.

The New Testament writings are evidence.

Agnostics are generally more open to examining evidence than atheists are and the cold case tools used by the skeptical detective - he was more skeptical than an agnostic when he decided to examine the NT documents for himself - lead him eventually to conclude that the 2,000 year old reports are believable. He constructed a circumstantial evidence case that he became was persuaded is true.

If those tools he used can help an atheist evaluate the documents then how much more might they be able to help an agnostic willing to give it a try for themselves?

As I commented earlier in the thread, there is no guarantee that using those forensic skills will result in a skeptic - atheist or agnostic - deciding that the reports are believable. But they might.

If I was an atheist, I wouldn’t try it. If I was an agnostic, I would find trying it appealing. It isn’t appealing to the agnostic member I had in mind and I’m trying to find out from him why it isn’t.
 

Riven

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If John was roughly the same age as the Messiah, and if John wrote his Gospel 30 years after the death of the Messiah, then John would have been around 65 years old. That’s not unlikely.
Perhaps not. But commoners back then lived much shorter lives than they do today.

Luke was a physician.
What does that mean in the first century? He was akin to a shaman?

I was looking at various articles on literacy rates among the Jews living in Galilee in the first century. It may have been more common among peasants than the impression you have. Scholars debate the issue among themselves.

Here is a link to one of the articles I read: What We Know About Education in Galilee During Jesus’ Time

I focused on Galilee because that was Jesus’ base of operation and the common perception - which I think is a misperception - is that Jews living in Galilee were less literate than Jews living in Judaea. I’m looking, in other words, at a worst case scenario.
Why not bypass this obstacle entirely and appear to the Chinese instead? A people that, even at the time, were capable of reading, writing, and studying evidence? Instead we get yet another revelation in the desert among a bunch of illiterate peasants.

Let’s go with you think Jesus Christ existed. The Hebrew Bible contains prophecies about him and the New Testament contains reports of eyewitness accounts about him.
The prophecies do not name him specifically. Furthermore, if he were the messiah, the Jews would say as such. But they do not. The New Testament testimonies cannot be confirmed to be eyewitness accounts due to the fact that the gospels were written several decades after Christ's crucifixion.

It says, the gospel according to John. It does not say, the gospel as witnessed, and recorded by, John. The former implies that it is being written down by a third party, and that's what we have with these gospels.

The Hebrew Bible and the New Testament are replete with reports of supernatural activity. “Easier to take” doesn’t equate to “searching for the truth”.
The truth very well may be that these supernatural events took place. However, we can't just take it at face value. Otger religions, like Islam, have similar stories involving the supernatural. Should we believe what's written in that book as well? They claim to have eyewitnesses, too.

That’s what the atheist detective cared about. It was the tools of his trade which helped him to decide that the testimony is likely to be true.
No. He ignored the fact that supernatural events don't happen today and failed to ask himself why. On some level, I think he simply wants to believe it.

Miracles happen every day.
Everyone has a phone with a camera now. Where's the video evidence? In fact, out of all the various time periods thought history for Jesus to appear and show us his divinity, now would have been the best time.

There’s nothing wrong with being skeptical. The detective in the video clips was a skeptic when he began examining the New Testament writings.
And again, like many Christians today, he completely ignores the Old Testament. In order for anything in the NT to be true, everything in the OT must also be true.

The Bible includes accounts of people consulting the dead and condemns the practice.
It isn't real. They're con artists that prey upon people.

I didn’t get that from him. What I picked up on was he came to believe it because by employing forensic analysis of the writings he became persuaded that they were telling the truth.
One wonders if he would be persuaded by a modern day testimony that claimed a ghost committed murder. I rather doubt it.

He wasn’t examining the writings from the perspective of his own life experience.
On that, we very much agree. If he were to do that, he would have remained an agnostic.

What do you have to lose by using the technique that the skeptical detective used to evaluate the claims made about Jesus in the New Testament?

In other words, why aren’t you interested in trying it?
Because there is no way to prove that the claims are true without first believing in the supernatural. Why isn't he skeptical about Jesus walking on water or raising Lazarus from the dead? Even if was able to bring himself to believe just one of those stories, wht isn't he skeptical about any of the others?

Answer: because he wants to believe it. I dare say, it calls into question his competence as a detective. How many people went to jail just because he believed they were guilty based on someone else's testimony?
 

Matthias

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Perhaps not. But commoners back then lived much shorter lives than they do today.


What does that mean in the first century? He was akin to a shaman?


Why not bypass this obstacle entirely and appear to the Chinese instead? A people that, even at the time, were capable of reading, writing, and studying evidence? Instead we get yet another revelation in the desert among a bunch of illiterate peasants.


The prophecies do not name him specifically. Furthermore, if he were the messiah, the Jews would say as such. But they do not. The New Testament testimonies cannot be confirmed to be eyewitness accounts due to the fact that the gospels were written several decades after Christ's crucifixion.

It says, the gospel according to John. It does not say, the gospel as witnessed, and recorded by, John. The former implies that it is being written down by a third party, and that's what we have with these gospels.


The truth very well may be that these supernatural events took place. However, we can't just take it at face value. Otger religions, like Islam, have similar stories involving the supernatural. Should we believe what's written in that book as well? They claim to have eyewitnesses, too.


No. He ignored the fact that supernatural events don't happen today and failed to ask himself why. On some level, I think he simply wants to believe it.


Everyone has a phone with a camera now. Where's the video evidence? In fact, out of all the various time periods thought history for Jesus to appear and show us his divinity, now would have been the best time.


And again, like many Christians today, he completely ignores the Old Testament. In order for anything in the NT to be true, everything in the OT must also be true.


It isn't real. They're con artists that prey upon people.


One wonders if he would be persuaded by a modern day testimony that claimed a ghost committed murder. I rather doubt it.


On that, we very much agree. If he were to do that, he would have remained an agnostic.


Because there is no way to prove that the claims are true without first believing in the supernatural. Why isn't he skeptical about Jesus walking on water or raising Lazarus from the dead? Even if was able to bring himself to believe just one of those stories, wht isn't he skeptical about any of the others?

Answer: because he wants to believe it. I dare say, it calls into question his competence as a detective. How many people went to jail just because he believed they were guilty based on someone else's testimony?

I received the answer I was looking for. Thanks again for watching the video clips.
 
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