Why did God love and forgive David so?

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bbyrd009

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Nevermind the further implications of what we could attempt to do to the text if we begin to assign or relegate it as mythology.
That much of Genesis and parts of other Books are mythology is barely even debatable; what differs imo is our definitions of "mythology." It is acknowledged that Moses was not there to record the Creation story, and that it is actually a composite that once contained Lillith, etc, and had other variations at one time. I refer to A&E all the time, consider them very real, etc, too. Bam bring the further implications, what further implications do you anticipate?

much of Genesis and parts of other Books are mythology - Google Search
 

bbyrd009

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@bbyrd009 ...even if you are right in how you think...I would never use the word mythical for what is written...maybe 'spiritual' if it did not actually happened in time...
So how do you see what is written about - " The first Adam, and The last Adam. " ? Is just one mythical, or both? o_O
i would never use the word mythical either, see, unicorns are mythical, Adam is mythological. Now i agree that we might need to make up a new word for "mythology" now, being as how we all think "myth" means "lie" now, but that is not what it historically meant at all, see, ppl once relied on mythology for the collected wisdom of the nation
 

bbyrd009

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Adam and Eve are also mythological; this should be more directly understood. Adam and Eve are not literal people, as any Jew understands. Only Christians do that. This severely constrains the mythology, now this has to mean that, and that can only be this, etc
see so now instead of letting the mythology speak, you got Adam made out of dirt from the ground--even though the Bible already has a word for that, not used there--by God twinkling His nose, see, and then all you have to do to maintain the fiction is call ppl born with vestigial tails "devils" or whatever, or have the tails removed very quietly, and keep pretending you never had one lol
 

Helen

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i would never use the word mythical either, see, unicorns are mythical, Adam is mythological. Now i agree that we might need to make up a new word for "mythology" now, being as how we all think "myth" means "lie" now, but that is not what it historically meant at all, see, ppl once relied on mythology for the collected wisdom of the nation

Why do you believe that Adam was not created from the dust of the ground and we descended from him...so he was the same as us.
Why is he to you mythological? ;)
I must have missed a step...I don't think I have ever seen you say this before.....have you?
 

bbyrd009

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I do expect to see Adam in the sweet by and by...
understand that i do too, in a sense at least, and i would not try and dissuade you of the idea; but see that if he really referred to himself as "Bob" he can still be Adam, ("ruddy") for our purposes. "Adam" is closer to a title or a statement of condition than a name, perhaps. "Our Progenitor."
 

Helen

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...bb we posted at the same time..I just wrote and asked...did you see it?
 
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Helen

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understand that i do too, in a sense at least, and i would not try and dissuade you of the idea; but see that if he really referred to himself as "Bob" he can still be Adam, ("ruddy") for our purposes. "Adam" is closer to a title or a statement of condition than a name, perhaps. "Our Progenitor."

Okay yes, I agree with that and am aware...I can't understand why as he was 'the first' of us...it makes him less 'a person' though!! We had a friend who had a dog ( dead now) who he named ' Dog.' If God called him Adam..why does that make him less of an Adam in name also?
 

bbyrd009

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Why do you believe that Adam was not created from the dust of the ground and we descended from him
well, briefly, bc i believe Adam was created from the dust of the earth, ha aretz, not the dust of the ground, ge, Strong's Greek: 1093. γῆ (gé) -- the earth, land, so see that what is going on here is a difference in definitions, not in doctrine so much, which no belief in Adam could warp as much as the Original Sin one anyway, imo, but nevermind that for now i guess lol
 

bbyrd009

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I must have missed a step...I don't think I have ever seen you say this before.....have you?
in diff ways, yes. It is all part and parcel with reading the Bible from a logical pov, requiring A or notA answers, seeking facts instead of truth, and relying on Oracles for our facts.

i mean, please don't take this wrong ok, but i am getting schooled on "mythology" by two ppl who have assured their progeny that a Magical Guy in a Red Suit will bring them Gifts for their Good Works on Jesus' Birthday lol, c'mon
 
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bbyrd009

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Okay yes, I agree with that and am aware...I can't understand why as he was 'the first' of us...it makes him less 'a person' though!! We had a friend who had a dog ( dead now) who he named ' Dog.' If God called him Adam..why does that make him less of an Adam in name also?
ha i'm sure he would answer to Adam too ok, even though he would have gotten a New Name later, right; i answer to several names myself, so do you i bet
 
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Richard_oti

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well, "mythological" does not mean "fake" or "not real," the way we define "myth" today

they completely understood this, but just held a different definition of "mythology" than "false," what every Christian more or less believes it to mean; by design. Mythology is how truth is maintained and passed to the next generation before reading catches on; not the lie that logicians have made it into

I am sure that those who believed other "mythologies" did not consider them "fake / unreal" either. Perhaps "fable(s)" would be a better choice with regard to some. Origen comes to mind:

In "Against Celsus", Origen lists a number of pagan gods from ancient stories that were also born of "virgins", but unlike that Jesus story they are only fables according to Origen.

Yet, I am sure that those who believed those "fables / mythologies" would claim the opposite.

Stories of divine / virgin birth were a dime a dozen.


Augustus Caesar's birth was also attributed as being of divine origin in Suetonius' account in the "Twelve Caesars":

<quote>

"Having reached this point, it will not be out of place to add an account of the omens which occurred before he was born, on the very day of his birth, and afterwards, from which it was
possible to anticipate and perceive his future greatness and uninterrupted good fortune. ... According to Julius Marathus, a few months before Augustus was born a portent was generally
observed at Rome, which gave warning that nature was pregnant with a king for the Roman people; thereupon the senate in consternation decreed that no male child born that year should
be reared; but those whose wives were with child saw to it that the decree was not filed in the treasury ... I have read the following story in the books of Asclepias of Mendes entitled Theologumena.

When Atia had come in the middle of the night to the solemn service of Apollo, she had her litter set down in the temple and fell asleep, while the rest of the matrons also slept. On a sudden a serpent glided up to her and shortly went away. When she awoke, she purified herself, as if after the embraces of her husband, and at once there appeared on her body a mark in colours like a serpent, and she could never get rid of it; so that presently she ceased ever to go to the public baths. In the tenth month after that Augustus was born and was therefore regarded as the son of Apollo. Atia too, before she gave him birth, dreamed that her vitals were borne up to the stars and spread over the whole extent of land and sea, while Octavius dreamed that the sun rose from Atia's womb.

The day he was born the conspiracy of Catiline was before the House, and Octavius came late because of his wife's confinement; then Publius Nigidius, as everyone knows, learning the reason for his tardiness and being informed also of the hour of the birth, declared that the ruler of the world had been born. ... Moreover, the very next night he dreamt that his son appeared to him in a guise more majestic than that of mortal man, with the thunderbolt, sceptre, and insignia of Jupiter Optimus Maximus, wearing a crown begirt with rays and mounted upon a laurel-wreathed chariot drawn by twelve horses of surpassing whiteness. When Augustus was still
an infant, as is recorded by the hand of Gaius Drusus, he was placed by his nurse at evening in his cradle on the ground floor and the next morning had disappeared; but after long search he was at last found on a lofty tower with his face towards the rising sun. ... the next night he dreamt that he saw this same boy in the lap of Jupiter of the Capitol, and that when he had ordered that he be removed, the god warned him to desist, declaring that the boy was being reared to be the saviour of his country."

</quote>
 

Richard_oti

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That much of Genesis and parts of other Books are mythology is barely even debatable; what differs imo is our definitions of "mythology." It is acknowledged that Moses was not there to record the Creation story, and that it is actually a composite that once contained Lillith, etc, and had other variations at one time. I refer to A&E all the time, consider them very real, etc, too. Bam bring the further implications, what further implications do you anticipate?

much of Genesis and parts of other Books are mythology - Google Search

I noticed that you stated you were looking at things from a logical POV. A : notA. Which from my perspective / perception / POV is perhaps another manner of "validating" one's faith / beliefs.

Of all the "creation" accounts, Genesis is the "cliffnotes" version. If memory serves, @FHII recently mentioned such as Jasher and Jubilees. As I have said, Jasher is worth the read. Jubilees, take it or leave it. It is rife with internal inconsistencies and lacks some consistency with all other known accounts.

As I have also previously stated within this thread: Even "Genesis" may not be an original, but rather transcribed from older Akkadian and / or Sumerian source(s) [cf: Bauer, G. Driver].

None of the authors of the "creation" accounts were there. Given such as the Atrahasis Epic and Enuma Elish, which is mythology and / or fable, and what do we accept as being of / from "God"? IOW: aletheia / 'emet.

Of all the "flood" accounts that I have read, the Genesis account is by far the most "incredible".

Thus before us, from my perspective, we have a choice. A choice with inherent danger(s). For once we begin down a certain path, we dare come nigh to unleashing Durin's Bane. Once that has been unleashed, there is no telling the outcome. For many, it has been disastrous.

IOW: In "dwelving" into things, we also run the risk of undermining the "foundation". Once that has occurred, it is a rare "structure" that is able to withstand the stress and strain of such. For many, come crumbling down.
 

bbyrd009

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I noticed that you stated you were looking at things from a logical POV. A : notA. Which from my perspective / perception / POV is perhaps another manner of "validating" one's faith / beliefs.
did you notice that i allowed some other possibility besides the A or notA there, that i just could not see? After all, the Rich Man either had an opportunity to change his mind while he was alive, or he did not have that opportunity, as him pointlessly watching a 70odd year "movie" suggests, to me. If there is a dialectic approach to this concept, i am open to it, but tbh i find Fatalism to be anathema to God, and i note that "today" has been inserted into it twice, both times...incongruously, sorry, at least to me.

Iow the refs to "today" made no sense in their context, either, at least to me, and as you might know i am big on relating concepts to today. So i am waiting for a witness to come and stand in the gap here, but i am not holding my breath, and imo the posts that have been ignored on this issue (mostly on a couple other threads, i guess) tell the same story, in silence
 
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Richard_oti

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did you notice that i allowed some other possibility besides the A or notA there, that i just could not see? After all, the Rich Man either had an opportunity to change his mind while he was alive, or he did not have that opportunity, as him pointlessly watching a 70odd year "movie" suggests, to me.

"And Jesus looking upon him loved him"

Agreed. We only know he went away sad. We do not know the final outcome.


If there is a dialectic approach to this concept, i am open to it, but tbh i find Fatalism to be anathema to God

Concur.


and i note that "today" has been inserted into it twice, both times...incongruously, sorry, at least to me.

Iow the refs to "today" made no sense in their context, either, at least to me, and as you might know i am big on relating concepts to today.

Understood. For it is "Today" that matters.

<snip>
 
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