Why did Jesus say this for?

[Robert Gwin]

I like to try to go further than this, though eschatology is something many not get to involved in, as it is a particular hard task to understand, an for me personally I have been taught to go against traditional thinking when it comes to if Jesus has returned or not.

Thus I believe he came in the first century for the pure-blameless bride of Christ in that day in age. That is why I was sharing this information Jesus spoke to the High Priest, pertaining to his 'coming'.

It is not about Jesus coming, dying, being resurrected as the Son of God, the Messiah, the one who was 'the Anointed one' - Christ.

Many people have this common knowledge about Jesus through the scripture but there is more to learn than just that basic knowledge.

Thank you for commenting.

The first coming was the first prophecy of the Bible Matt, God instantly put in place the means of redemption from what Adam lost. Gen 3:15. Jesus spoke of a future coming in which he gave signs for his followers to observe to prepare for his 2nd coming Mat 24. Those signs prove to us that Jesus is the now reigning King in heaven, and satan and the demons have been cast to the earth, soon to be removed from the earth with his next, soon to be return.

 

[Davy]

Are you saying God will resurrect the blind Pharisees, too see Jesus’s return?

You mean you have not read what Jesus said in John 5:28-29?

And if you want Apostle Paul's view that goes with what Jesus said, see Acts 24:15.

 

[MatthewG]

The first coming was the first prophecy of the Bible Matt, God instantly put in place the means of redemption from what Adam lost. Gen 3:15. Jesus spoke of a future coming in which he gave signs for his followers to observe to prepare for his 2nd coming Mat 24. Those signs prove to us that Jesus is the now reigning King in heaven, and satan and the demons have been cast to the earth, soon to be removed from the earth with his next, soon to be return.

Hello Robert,

Contextual understanding and considering everything possible that has to deal with the second coming along with the understanding that it was coming in their day.

Though many people still believe in the future coming.

I do not mind what people believe, however from the view of scripture Jesus was telling them to continue to keep watch, also the apostles in that day in age when the Letters were written to all these specific churches.

That is the biggest thing people should really consider, other than believing what people tell them oh he is coming back he is coming back, when the Spirit of Christ already resides with-in one through faith.

Jesus did come back and those believers back then were watching and they were saved from the wrath that fell upon Jerusalem.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Hello Robert,

Contextual understanding and considering everything possible that has to deal with the second coming along with the understanding that it was coming in their day.

Though many people still believe in the future coming.

I do not mind what people believe, however from the view of scripture Jesus was telling them to continue to keep watch, also the apostles in that day in age when the Letters were written to all these specific churches.

That is the biggest thing people should really consider, other than believing what people tell them oh he is coming back he is coming back, when the Spirit of Christ already resides with-in one through faith.

Jesus did come back and those believers back then were watching and they were saved from the wrath that fell upon Jerusalem.

We do not believe that Jesus has returned yet Matt. We do believe however that the prophecy Jesus gave was a twofold prophecy, and did have fulfillment with the tribulation and destruction of Jerusalem, but we do not believe Jesus returned. If he did, why is the world the way it is?

We would be entirely incorrect in our understanding of Daniel 4 which we believe ended in 1914, and with the outbreak of WW#1, it convinced me that the brothers nailed that one accurately. Time will tell, but keep on the watch Matt, we are in for some big changes in the near future. The scene of this world is changing rapidly my friend.

 

[shilohsfoal]

If anyone else has anything they would like to share please feel free to do so.

I do not personally subscribe to traditions that have been around for awhile, and proclaim that Jesus is still returning ( I love my brothers and sisters)
, as that is why I am sharing just a simple evidence of what Jesus said to someone else... not to any of us, but to the High Priest himself in his day in age.

Thank you so much.

I've read that not everyone who rises from the dust of the earth are good. Some rise to shame and contempt.

Daniel 12:2 And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Jesus has the power to resurect the dead. Could you imagine the look on Ciaphas face to see Jesus coming in the clouds before Ciaphas is cast into a lake of fire,?
I think it could happen.

 

[bbyrd009]

We do not believe that Jesus has returned yet Matt. We do believe however that the prophecy Jesus gave was a twofold prophecy, and did have fulfillment with the tribulation and destruction of Jerusalem, but we do not believe Jesus returned. If he did, why is the world the way it is?

We would be entirely incorrect in our understanding of Daniel 4 which we believe ended in 1914, and with the outbreak of WW#1, it convinced me that the brothers nailed that one accurately. Time will tell, but keep on the watch Matt, we are in for some big changes in the near future. The scene of this world is changing rapidly my friend.

who is this “we” you refer to? ty

 

[Enoch111]

Again the chief priest was questioning him, and saith to him, ‘Art thou the Christ — the Son of the Blessed?’ and Jesus said, ‘I am; and ye shall see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of the power, and coming with the clouds of the heaven.’

Jesus was plainly telling the High Priest that He was indeed (1) the Son of God, (2) the Son of Man mentioned in Daniel (who is in fact the Son of God), (3) the Messiah, and (4) that He would be seen by him sitting at the right hand of God and then coming down to earth with the "clouds of heaven" at His Second Coming. This was a reference to Daniel 7:13,14, which mentions "the clouds of heaven". Since these are no ordinary clouds, they are used metaphorically for saints and angels.

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of Man [Christ] came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days [God the Father], and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

This response should have caused the High Priest to fall down and worship Christ, since "the Son of the Blessed" was regarded as God by the Jews. The Jewish rabbis understood that their Messiah would be divine. But instead he sentenced Him to death.

 

[ChristisGod]

Jesus was plainly telling the High Priest that He was indeed (1) the Son of God, (2) the Son of Man mentioned in Daniel (who is in fact the Son of God), (3) the Messiah, and (4) that He would be seen by him sitting at the right hand of God and then coming down to earth with the "clouds of heaven" at His Second Coming. This was a reference to Daniel 7:13,14, which mentions "the clouds of heaven". Since these are no ordinary clouds, they are used metaphorically for saints and angels.

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of Man [Christ] came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days [God the Father], and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

This response should have caused the High Priest to fall down and worship Christ, since "the Son of the Blessed" was regarded as God by the Jews. The Jewish rabbis understood that their Messiah would be divine. But instead he sentenced Him to death.

Amen and Jesus said unless you believe I Am (YHWH) you will die in your sins. John 8:24

 

[MatthewG]

@Enoch111

That is good to know that he was plainly speaking to the high priest.

Through out the course of the life of Jesus he was always going against the Pharisees, and those who looked down on the Lord, as He was the truth, the way, and the life.

Why is it that people believe that Jesus is speaking to the nation of America though when they read the scriptures? Why do we as human beings try to make the last days now today, when that is taking the situations spoken in the bible about the Last Days they were entering in. What was the Last days? The ending of the material religion of the Nation of Israel, which lead to its destruction because of the Pharisees and Scribes, worshiping idols and having killed Jesus Christ.

Not so sure what many people think about the early days, and then comparing them to now times which is totally intellectually dishonest from my understanding. (all of us fall short, no one is right before God, all need Jesus, the only answer - it is up to them to decide to seek him out or not, we share others/ decide.)

I believe there are many evidences in the bible that support Jesus having returned back then in that generation, and even though people believe in a future date of the coming, quickly in revelation doesn't mean quickly 2000 years later as some may suggest but it is whatever they choose to believe.

To each their own though.

 

[MatthewG]

I've read that not everyone who rises from the dust of the earth are good. Some rise to shame and contempt.

Daniel 12:2 And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Jesus has the power to resurect the dead. Could you imagine the look on Ciaphas face to see Jesus coming in the clouds before Ciaphas is cast into a lake of fire,?
I think it could happen.

Shilohsfoal,

That is true, all people are going to be resurrected and come into the Heavenly Realm - believers and non-believers, according to Revelation 22.

When it came to what Jesus had said to the High priest, if that person changed their mind and repented and remained watching for the Coming, they would not suffer the wrath that fell on Jerusalem those watching would be taken, those left would have been taken captive, or killed during the passover feast where everyone gathered on that day in 70 AD.

 

[MatthewG]

A lot of what we live by is faith, walking by faith and not by sight.

Hoping and believing the things we can not see, nor have obtained fully yet, such as the spiritual resurrected body, the rewards one receives for serving God in faith willingly by their own choice having love for God and love for others as one walks through.

One of those things I believe was the return of Jesus to the chosen blameless, spotless bride that was alive in when they were waiting and watching for his returned, which,

(it is not documented - written as a certainty)(To me they were all taken, and unbelievers did not see the return of Jesus because they were not watching, and they either faced death, or were captured and taken to a different place : Those who were watching - were changed in the twinkling of the eye going onward to the heavenly realm.),

to me was seen by the confirmation of the destruction of Jerusalem which co-relates to what Jesus said about the temple being destroyed which it was and all the genealogy burned up.

Now today no one know who is a Jew or not, due to they have no more genealogy to follow; = Yes we know those who are translated into the branches of the tree because part of those who are believing and become circumcised in the heart.

Romans 2:29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

God bless and take care. It is a different view than what most suggest however it doesn't bother me to be free and have liberty in Christ to share what I have come to learn and see and understand with others.

 

[ScottA]

“And the chief priest, having risen up in the midst, questioned Jesus, saying, ‘Thou dost not answer anything! what do these testify against thee?’ and he was keeping silent, and did not answer anything.

Again the chief priest was questioning him, and saith to him, ‘Art thou the Christ — the Son of the Blessed?’ and Jesus said, ‘I am; and ye shall see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of the power, and coming with the clouds, of the heaven.’

And the chief priest, having rent his garments, saith, ‘What need have we yet of witnesses? Ye heard the evil speaking, what appeareth to you?’ and they all condemned him to be worthy of death, and certain began to spit on him, and to cover his face, and to buffet him, and to say to him, ‘Prophesy;’ and the officers were striking him with their palms.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭14:60-65‬ ‭YLT98‬‬
Mark 14:60-65 And the chief priest, having risen up in the midst, questioned Jesus, saying, ‘Thou dost not answer anything! what do these testify against thee?’ and he was keeping silent, and did not answer anythin | Young's Literal Translation 1898 (YLT98) | Download The Bible App Now

If you would like a different reading grab your Bible and really start from Mark 13-14 and read it out loud to yourself and consider what is being said in its context back then in that day when Mark had written it which is I believe considered to be written in the early 50ish Ad, possibly one of the first Gospels made before John, Matthew and Luke’s accounts.

He was quoting a prophecy of Daniel regarding Him:

Daniel 7:13
“I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him.​

 

[Robert Gwin]

who is this “we” you refer to? ty

I am one of Jehovah's witnesses Byrd, when I say we I am referring to us as a whole, our beliefs.

 

[ChristisGod]

A lot of what we live by is faith, walking by faith and not by sight.

Hoping and believing the things we can not see, nor have obtained fully yet, such as the spiritual resurrected body, the rewards one receives for serving God in faith willingly by their own choice having love for God and love for others as one walks through.

One of those things I believe was the return of Jesus to the chosen blameless, spotless bride that was alive in when they were waiting and watching for his returned, which,

(it is not documented - written as a certainty)(To me they were all taken, and unbelievers did not see the return of Jesus because they were not watching, and they either faced death, or were captured and taken to a different place : Those who were watching - were changed in the twinkling of the eye going onward to the heavenly realm.),

to me was seen by the confirmation of the destruction of Jerusalem which co-relates to what Jesus said about the temple being destroyed which it was and all the genealogy burned up.

Now today no one know who is a Jew or not, due to they have no more genealogy to follow; = Yes we know those who are translated into the branches of the tree because part of those who are believing and become circumcised in the heart.

Romans 2:29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

God bless and take care. It is a different view than what most suggest however it doesn't bother me to be free and have liberty in Christ to share what I have come to learn and see and understand with others.

The biggest problem you have is that the last book written in out N.T. was Revelation. It was written decades after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad. And in Revelation John was still waiting for His Return. So in fact Jesus had not returned when the Revelation was given to John on the island of Patmos sometime after 90 ad.

Domitian reigned in Rome from 81-96 A.D. Since Irenaeus the ECF was a disciple of Polycarp who was a disciple of John and wrote that John Revelation was from Patmos during the reign of Domitian we know it was post 70ad and the destruction of Jerusalem.

hope this helps !!!

 

[ChristisGod]

Some early church historical perspective.

In the second and third chapters of the Book of Revelation, there are seven letters addressed to the "angel" of each of seven churches. The second letter is addressed to the angel of the church in Smyrna. One can't help but wonder if this "angel" was referring to John's student and disciple Polycarp. Polycarp, whose name in Greek means "much fruit," had reportedly been John's disciple in Ephesus, along with Ignatius and Papias. He and Ignatius remained close. Ignatius' letter to him would seem to indicate that he was not only Polycarp's friend, but also his mentor after John died. Ignatius' Letter to the Smyrnians has the character of an elder bishop trying to shore up support for a younger one. It appears that Polycarp was already a bishop of Smyrna at a young age; perhaps even at the time John was writing the Revelation. He was martyred at the age of 86 around the middle of the second century (155-160 A.D.), having survived his mentor by forty years, and served as bishop for perhaps as sixty years or more.

Eyewitnesses in a letter from the church in Smyrna to the church of Philomelium apparently recorded the story of his martyrdom, the earliest outside the New Testament. It is a vivid account describing, sometimes in gruesome detail, the betrayal, the apprehension and the death by fire of this 86-year-old man who faced death like a young athlete sprinting to the finish line. The cruelty and barbarism of Rome are set in sharp contrast to this lamb-like octogenarian who refused to deny his Lord. The state and the populace in general considered the Christians to be atheists since they did not worship the gods of Rome. And so, shortly before his death, the proconsul asks Polycarp to repent and say, "Away with the atheists!" The letter describes Polycarp solemnly looking at the whole crowd gathered to see his martyrdom. He motions toward them with his hand as he groans, "Away with the atheists!" (Martyrdom of Polycarp 9). The message was loud and clear: The Lord Christ had won out over Lord Caesar.

Polycarp is a fascinating figure because he represents a bridge between the Apostolic age and the church of the second century. Irenaeus notes that as a child he met Polycarp and heard of his encounters with the apostles and those who had seen Christ (Against Heresies 3.3; Eusebius, Church History 4.14). Not only did Polycarp confront the increasing threat of state persecution; he also took on the internal challenges of Gnosticism, embodied by Marcion, one of its most charismatic figures (whom Polycarp called the "firstborn of Satan"). In his Letter to the Philippians, Polycarp followed in the path of Ignatius, encouraging churches to honor their bishop. He also had a hand in helping to shape the New Testament canon. Towards the end of his life, we learn of Polycarp's travels to Rome (around 155 A.D.), where he met with Bishop Anicetus to seek agreement on how the church should determine the date of Easter. He was arrested not long after this visit, and was most likely martyred the following year.https://bibleresources.americanbible.org/resource/polycarp-of-smyrna

hope this helps !!!

 

[MatthewG]

The biggest problem you have is that the last book written in out N.T. was Revelation. It was written decades after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad. And in Revelation John was still waiting for His Return. So in fact Jesus had not returned when the Revelation was given to John on the island of Patmos sometime after 90 ad.

Domitian reigned in Rome from 81-96 A.D. Since Irenaeus the ECF was a disciple of Polycarp who was a disciple of John and wrote that John Revelation was from Patmos during the reign of Domitian we know it was post 70ad and the destruction of Jerusalem.

hope this helps !!!

Some early church historical perspective.

In the second and third chapters of the Book of Revelation, there are seven letters addressed to the "angel" of each of seven churches. The second letter is addressed to the angel of the church in Smyrna. One can't help but wonder if this "angel" was referring to John's student and disciple Polycarp. Polycarp, whose name in Greek means "much fruit," had reportedly been John's disciple in Ephesus, along with Ignatius and Papias. He and Ignatius remained close. Ignatius' letter to him would seem to indicate that he was not only Polycarp's friend, but also his mentor after John died. Ignatius' Letter to the Smyrnians has the character of an elder bishop trying to shore up support for a younger one. It appears that Polycarp was already a bishop of Smyrna at a young age; perhaps even at the time John was writing the Revelation. He was martyred at the age of 86 around the middle of the second century (155-160 A.D.), having survived his mentor by forty years, and served as bishop for perhaps as sixty years or more.

Eyewitnesses in a letter from the church in Smyrna to the church of Philomelium apparently recorded the story of his martyrdom, the earliest outside the New Testament. It is a vivid account describing, sometimes in gruesome detail, the betrayal, the apprehension and the death by fire of this 86-year-old man who faced death like a young athlete sprinting to the finish line. The cruelty and barbarism of Rome are set in sharp contrast to this lamb-like octogenarian who refused to deny his Lord. The state and the populace in general considered the Christians to be atheists since they did not worship the gods of Rome. And so, shortly before his death, the proconsul asks Polycarp to repent and say, "Away with the atheists!" The letter describes Polycarp solemnly looking at the whole crowd gathered to see his martyrdom. He motions toward them with his hand as he groans, "Away with the atheists!" (Martyrdom of Polycarp 9). The message was loud and clear: The Lord Christ had won out over Lord Caesar.

Polycarp is a fascinating figure because he represents a bridge between the Apostolic age and the church of the second century. Irenaeus notes that as a child he met Polycarp and heard of his encounters with the apostles and those who had seen Christ (Against Heresies 3.3; Eusebius, Church History 4.14). Not only did Polycarp confront the increasing threat of state persecution; he also took on the internal challenges of Gnosticism, embodied by Marcion, one of its most charismatic figures (whom Polycarp called the "firstborn of Satan"). In his Letter to the Philippians, Polycarp followed in the path of Ignatius, encouraging churches to honor their bishop. He also had a hand in helping to shape the New Testament canon. Towards the end of his life, we learn of Polycarp's travels to Rome (around 155 A.D.), where he met with Bishop Anicetus to seek agreement on how the church should determine the date of Easter. He was arrested not long after this visit, and was most likely martyred the following year.https://bibleresources.americanbible.org/resource/polycarp-of-smyrna

hope this helps !!!

Sorry, no problem here friend. I just do not trust the traditions of man, and believe John wrote the Revelation, before the destruction of Jerusalem happened.

Half of all the bible scriptures are all 'debatable' as far as when they are written. Therefore I believe Nero was the Beast.

It doesn't matter to me if you disagree. Love you either way sir.

I am thankful to know that even though we believe differently if i did not love you then that would be a problem haha.

I can be hypercritical and judgemental towards others however I like to reside and abide in Christ.

God bless.

 

[amadeus]

“And the chief priest, having risen up in the midst, questioned Jesus, saying, ‘Thou dost not answer anything! what do these testify against thee?’ and he was keeping silent, and did not answer anything.

Again the chief priest was questioning him, and saith to him, ‘Art thou the Christ — the Son of the Blessed?’ and Jesus said, ‘I am; and ye shall see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of the power, and coming with the clouds, of the heaven.’

‭‭Mark‬ ‭14:60-62‬ ‭YLT98‬‬
...

What would He have us to see? What do we see?

"Where there is no vision, the people perish..." Prov 29:18

First, we see the Door, do we not?

"Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them." John 10:7-8

And then we are to walk through the Door, are we not?

"I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture." John 10:9

It started with a blurry vision, which should be becoming day by day clearer as we walk toward Him... no?

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Matt 11:28-30

Was not Jesus constantly inviting us to come through the Door to be in and with Him and His Father?

What would He have us to see? What do we see?

For what did Jesus pray?

"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." John 17:20-23

What would He have us to see? What do we see?

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

 

[amadeus]

Why did Jesus say he was the Christ? I believe we agree Matt, he is the Christ.

And what is Christ, the Messiah? What is it? Is it not manna? Is he not the very Word of God?

"And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God." Rev 19:13

 

[amadeus]

If anyone else has anything they would like to share please feel free to do so.

I do not personally subscribe to traditions that have been around for awhile, and proclaim that Jesus is still returning ( I love my brothers and sisters)
, as that is why I am sharing just a simple evidence of what Jesus said to someone else... not to any of us, but to the High Priest himself in his day in age.

Thank you so much.

To some people, he has not returned...fully, has he? Consider how many dead people are still walking... Consider how many believers have not overcome all that they will overcome before their time runs out...

 

[ChristisGod]

Sorry, no problem here friend. I just do not trust the traditions of man, and believe John wrote the Revelation, before the destruction of Jerusalem happened.

Half of all the bible scriptures are all 'debatable' as far as when they are written. Therefore I believe Nero was the Beast.

It doesn't matter to me if you disagree. Love you either way sir.

I am thankful to know that even though we believe differently if i did not love you then that would be a problem haha.

I can be hypercritical and judgemental towards others however I like to reside and abide in Christ.

God bless.

So historical facts mean nothing to you ?