Why did the sinless man Jesus also need to be "fully God"?

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John Zain

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God's PLAN # 1 (full of compassion and grace) ...
Produce a perfect sinless human who would stand in as our Substitute,
and be the perfect Sacrificial Lamb, and die for the sins of the human race!

I'm assuming you understand why man could NOT accomplish this for himself.
And continuing God's ancient blood covenant played a part also.

God's PLAN #2 ...
Have God Himself become a man, a "fully God" man.

WHY was this second plan necessary?
WHY did God choose to do it?
 

Foreigner

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John, perhaps if you explained what prompted this question it would be easier to provider an answer.
 

justaname

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God's PLAN # 1 (full of compassion and grace) ...
Produce a perfect sinless human who would stand in as our Substitute,
and be the perfect Sacrificial Lamb, and die for the sins of the human race!

I'm assuming you understand why man could NOT accomplish this for himself.
And continuing God's ancient blood covenant played a part also.

God's PLAN #2 ...
Have God Himself become a man, a "fully God" man.

WHY was this second plan necessary?
WHY did God choose to do it?


My question is when did we ever deviate from plan #1 What you call plan #2 is just the natural continuation of plan #1 imho.
WHY was this second plan necessary?
man could NOT accomplish this for himself.
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[font="'Trebuchet MS"]WHY did God choose to do it? [/font]
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John Zain

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My question is when did we ever deviate from plan #1
What you call plan #2 is just the natural continuation of plan #1 imho.
I just don't see it that way.
One special man NOT having man's inherited sin nature ... does NOT mean he is "fully God".
One special man NOT having man's inherited sin nature ... does NOT make him "fully God".
I.E. Adam did NOT have our sin nature ... was he "fully God"?

 

martinlawrencescott

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I think the point is that no mere man is capable of the sacrifice required to put God's wrath to rest. There were none to be found, so Jesus came from the undefiled source of the Spirit of God. The fullness of God is revealed to us in Christ. God is not nor ever was without fellowship. There wouldn't be relationship in this world unless he was first also without relationship, because all creation speaks about his glory and his character. From creation as well as His word, we understand that God was never alone, but God encompassed a three stranded cord in his character since the beginning. That is why God-centered families are so important, and it is why order and relationship within the body of Christ is important.
 

John Zain

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I feel most of you are not understanding me.

Why did God, God the Son, "fully God" need to die for our sins?


The man Jesus of Nazareth was born having the Holy Spirit as his Father (Luke 1:26-35).
I don't see this as meaning that this man was "fully God".

“Adam, who is a type of Him (Jesus) who was to come” (Romans 5:14).

Pre-fall Adam ... and ... Jesus of Nazareth ... were BOTH sinless men.

God's PLAN # 1 (full of compassion and grace) ...
Produce a perfect sinless human who would stand in as our Substitute,
and be the perfect Sacrificial Lamb, and die for the sins of the human race!

I'm assuming you understand why man could NOT accomplish this for himself.
I believe continuing God's ancient blood covenant also played a part in this.

God's PLAN #2 ...
Have God Himself become a man, a "fully God" man.

WHY did God choose to do the second plan? ... Was it necessary?

God produced His sinless man, which was sufficient to provide for man’s salvation.
Originally, before his fall, the man Adam was without any sin.
“Adam, who is a type of Him (Jesus) who was to come” (Romans 5:14).
--- Adam’s fall resulted in sin, and death, and the condemnation of all men.
--- Jesus Christ’s righteous act was a free gift, which resulted in the justification of life for many.

Romans 5:
12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin,
and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned —
13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned
according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died,
much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.
16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned.
For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation,
but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification.
17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive
abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation,
even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.
19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners,
so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound.
But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,
21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign
through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 

martinlawrencescott

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What does it mean to be God? How should we define Him? What standard do we use to know who God fully is? If we can come to a Biblical conclusion, then we can check our understanding of God with our understanding of Christ and see whether or not He passes the test of truly being God.
 

Duckybill

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Jesus is Gods son.
True indeed.

John 5 ESV

18 This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
 

justaname

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I just don't see it that way.
One special man NOT having man's inherited sin nature ... does NOT mean he is "fully God".
One special man NOT having man's inherited sin nature ... does NOT make him "fully God".
I.E. Adam did NOT have our sin nature ... was he "fully God"?


Adam was not called Immanuel, Jesus is. Jesus is equal with God scripture supports it. In His incarnation, He surrendered nothing of His divine essence by voluntarily limiting His use of His divine attributes.
 

John Zain

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Adam was not called Immanuel, Jesus is. Jesus is equal with God scripture supports it.
In His incarnation, He surrendered nothing of His divine essence by voluntarily limiting His use of His divine attributes.
You have no idea what this thread is about ... and there's only 9 lines to read and understand.
It's not rocket science, brain surgery, etc. ... So, please try again.
.

 

veteran

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I feel most of you are not understanding me.

Why did God, God the Son, "fully God" need to die for our sins?


The man Jesus of Nazareth was born having the Holy Spirit as his Father (Luke 1:26-35).
I don't see this as meaning that this man was "fully God".

“Adam, who is a type of Him (Jesus) who was to come” (Romans 5:14).

Pre-fall Adam ... and ... Jesus of Nazareth ... were BOTH sinless men.


I think most of us here understand you; it's you that does not understand us and God's Word about Christ Jesus being God, even when He was born in the flesh like us.

1. Can YOU forgive your own sins? NO!!

2. If Christ Jesus can forgive our sins, even though He was also born in the flesh, then what is the difference between us and Him???


Gal 3:22
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
(KJV)

This is why Christ Jesus is called Immanuel, which means 'with us is God'.

Only God can forgive our sins, and none other. Even the blind Pharisees recognized that point!


It is those trapped in pagan occultism, eastern religion and atheism that don't believe Jesus The Christ was God come in the flesh.

 

John Zain

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what is the difference between us and Him???
Are you serious ???
Why did the Triune Godhead decide to have the Holy Spirit be Jesus' Father ???
Why the verses about Jesus being the perfect SINLESS man ???
Why the blood covenants in the OT ???
Why the verses about Jesus being the ultimate perfect blood sacrifice in the NT ???
etc.
 

veteran

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Aug 6, 2010
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Are you serious ???
Why did the Triune Godhead decide to have the Holy Spirit be Jesus' Father ???
Why the verses about Jesus being the perfect SINLESS man ???
Why the blood covenants in the OT ???
Why the verses about Jesus being the ultimate perfect blood sacrifice in the NT ???
etc.



Yes, I'm serious.

You're preaching Gnosticism by treating Christ Jesus as a flesh man only, and not as Immanuel (God with us), and you are also blatantly denying the Isaiah 7 & 9 and Matthew 1 Scripture of Jesus Christ being God. You will find this out soon enough, so it's a waste of time even trying to talk to you about it.


 

Goinheix

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Apr 6, 2011
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God's PLAN # 1 (full of compassion and grace) ...
Produce a perfect sinless human who would stand in as our Substitute,
and be the perfect Sacrificial Lamb, and die for the sins of the human race!

I'm assuming you understand why man could NOT accomplish this for himself.
And continuing God's ancient blood covenant played a part also.

God's PLAN #2 ...
Have God Himself become a man, a "fully God" man.

WHY was this second plan necessary?
WHY did God choose to do it?


No where in the Bible we read "fully God". Not in refernce th Jesus, neither in any other context. We dont read of "partially God" or "little bit God" or "almost completely God"
There is not any other manner to be God than being God. Jesus was God...period. Jesus was not fully God but simply God. To declare Jesus as God shall be enough; with nocesesity of clarifying "fully" or "full".

Jesus is Gods son.


Jesus is God the Son; as we have God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. We Christians are Gods sons.

Adam was not God. Adam was the image of God. Jesus is the second Adam. Jesus was God image but also he was God itself. Adam did not have the fallen nature, neither Jesus. But Adam failed and Jesus suscuded. Adam as Jesus had the human non fallen nature and both had the Spirit on them. Adam as us the christians had the Holy Spirit; and Jesus was the Holy Spirit (the 3 are 1).

1 It was necesary for one man to live without sin in orther to be save himself. It was necesary for God to prove that it was possible for a man (the second Adam) to live wuthout sin. It was necesary to be God living as man (Jesus) to carry all hour sins as the Lamb.

2 It was necesary for Jesus to experience all our difficulties and situation to be our High Priest understanding us for he have been in our shoes.
 

John Zain

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Sep 16, 2010
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No where in the Bible we read "fully God". Jesus was not fully God but simply God.
To declare Jesus as God shall be enough; with nocesesity of clarifying "fully" or "full".
1. It was necesary for one man to live without sin in orther to be save himself.
It was necesary for God to prove that it was possible for a man (the second Adam) to live wuthout sin.
It was necesary to be God living as man (Jesus) to carry all hour sins as the Lamb.
2. It was necesary for Jesus to experience all our difficulties and situation to be our High Priest
understanding us for he have been in our shoes
.
The abominable snowman must have lost his snowshoes ...
Methinks Nicea derived their term "fully God" from such verses as:
Colossians 1:19 ... “For it pleased the Father that in Him (Jesus) all the fullness should dwell”
Colossains 2:9 ... “For in Him (Jesus) dwells all the fullness of the Godhead (all 3) bodily”

Point 1 is good, except the red should say "to save all of mankind"
Point 2 is good, but there is another MAJOR reason for why Jesus was revealed as "fully God".
Think.
 

Buzzfruit

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The abominable snowman must have lost his snowshoes ...
Methinks Nicea derived their term "fully God" from such verses as:
Colossians 1:19 ... “For it pleased the Father that in Him (Jesus) all the fullness should dwell”
Colossains 2:9 ... “For in Him (Jesus) dwells all the fullness of the Godhead (all 3) bodily”

Point 1 is good, except the red should say "to save all of mankind"
Point 2 is good, but there is another MAJOR reason for why Jesus was revealed as "fully God".
Think.



Those verses (Colossains1:19 , Colossains 2:9) does not mean or say Jesus is God it just says the fullness of God dwells in Jesus. One can have the fullness of God in him or her and not be God. Here is a scripture that tells us this.

Ephesians 3:19 (KJV)
[sup]19 [/sup]And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.


When God's people are glorified we will express this fullness just as Jesus does. I am not saying that Jesus is not God.....because He is.