Well, that's a stretch and a half to read into that text that because the disciples met on the 1st-day to set aside a sum of money means that their lifelong custom of keeping the weekly Sabbath has come to an end. That's nonsense and surely you must know that. The disciples met EVERY day of the week (Acts 2:46) so the text you gave means nothing more than the fact that they MET. The Sabbath day was changed to Sunday by the authority of the RCC (POST scripture) and the ProtestANTS just followed their authority like, um, little ants. It's quite ironic really when you think about it. Most Christians defend Sunday (as per the authority of the RCC who they 'protested' against) quite militantly! It's a funny old world.Arnie Manitoba said:I see the never ending sabbath debate is ...... well never ending
I happened to be looking at 1 Corinthians 16:1-3 and it sounds like the Christians were meeting on the first day of the week (sunday)
The topic is about having them set aside a tithe to be later forwarded to Jerusalem ***
1. Now about the collection for the Lord’s people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. 2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. 3 Then, when I arrive, I will give letters of introduction to the men you approve and send them with your gift to Jerusalem. ***
*** This should also anger some RC's who figure everything should have been sent to Rome
Why Do Christians Not Honor The Sabbath?
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In this thread there are those that obey the Sabbath literally as the law states, those that look for God's purpose behind the Sabbath and then kckid ''if you disregrad the sabbath, why not disregard the whole OT law, esp homosexuality''.Rex said:
Every Christian does honor the Sabbath.KCKID said:
The Jews primarily observe two events on the Sabbath. 1 Creation and 2 deliverence from Egypt. So God seems pleased if we observe Him and our deliverence once a week. As Christians we do that everyday. We can more then please Him on this desire of His. As Meshak said in his first post. We can go behind the veil everyday. Jews couldn't.
The law is written on our hearts. We need to discern God's reasoning behind every law and have it touch our hearts! When we do this we will find that moral laws remain pretty clear cut.
Saturday or Sunday ROFL. We should talk to our wife more then once a week! But our girlfriend, at least once a week. The Jews were dating God. Christians are engaged / married to God.
Maybe you misread my post but I gave you some scriptures that clearly show the law (including the ten on stone) have been completely fulfilled and set aside by Father through Christ.
Do you understand what the word "reality" means especially within this context? Those who are condemning others for not celebrating the sabbath have yet to realize this reality and all that He is. In time all will experience this reality.
Look again @ Gal. 3:19.
19 Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised. God gave his law through angels to Moses, who was the mediator between God and the people.
Gal 3:19 (NLT)
Not interested, not impressed with any of the above. I've seen it all before. Did God give Moses the Ten Commandments through His angels ...? No, He did not according to scripture. So, we are obviously not talking about the 'royal law' according to James. We are talking here about the ordinances that were nailed to the cross. Taking ambiguous scriptures that few people understand, giving them a subjective interpretation and then applying them to support the Christian 'sabbath' is simply mainstream Christian propoganda. I repeat ...NOWHERE in scripture was the 7th-day Sabbath done away with. NOWHERE in scripture was Sunday implimented as a 'holy day'. The change from the 7th-day (Saturday) to the 1st-day (Sunday) came POSTscripture, i.e. after the canons of scripture had been completed. The RCC doesn't make any secret of the fact that IT ALONE can change or/and impliment holy days and this is precisely what it did with its having transferred the solemnity of the 7th-day Sabbath to Sunday. Indeed, they pretty well brag about how the Protestants, while being generally critical of the RCC, kowtowed quite willingly to their 'bogus sabbath'. This is not my invention. The facts are quite easily accessable online. Try the Catholic Catechism.jiggyfly said:
By the way, I am NOT condemning those who don't keep the Sabbath. I personally don't care which day one keeps holy. I am simply wondering WHY Christians who persistently claim obedience to God - and condemn those that are not - are not obedient to a day that God blessed and sanctified at Creation ...some 500 years before the first Jew. Furthermore, if the Sabbath is/was abrogated, then the TEN commandments become the NINE commandments. And yet, every Christian that I know would claim allegiance to the TEN commandments . . .
This post is about as vague as those scriptures that are used to abrogate the 7th-day Sabbath.mjrhealth said:
I'm sure you intended for that to mean something but I personally haven't got a clue what.KingJ said:
Sunday? Is that the Sabbath?KingJ said:
But, the 7th-day Sabbath can't be observed on any other day except the 7th. Did I really need to explain that . . .? Everyone that I know has to work 5/6 days per week so they could not possibly observe 'a sabbath' every day even if that had been asked of them which it was not. It doesn't make sense. Not to mention, of course, that - as I've been lectured to several times - one cannot make up their own rules. This seems to be what you're doing, KJ. Once again, the Sabbath-day IS a 24-hour period that lasts Friday sundown to Saturday sundown.KingJ said:
What difference does it make if the law is written on our hearts? The Sabbath-day is still the Sabbath-day. All the other stuff you mention is just parrotted cliche.KingJ said:
Hmmmm . . .okay.KingJ said:
YEs it would be for those who believe the lie, thats why its called deception. It is fine if you want to keep the law, it is not a problem to me, it is when you cause others to stumble when it becomes a problem.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
Gal 2:15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
What I was looking for,
ct 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
Act 15:25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
Act 15:26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Act 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
Act 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
In all His love
What is 'the lie' being told here? Where is the deception? Who the heck is causing someone else to stumble by referring them to the 4th-commandment? If there is any lying, deception, causing others to stumble it would be the removing one of the TEN commandments, thereby making NINE. The RCC already removed commandment #2 and altered the meaning of commandment #4. How does one justify such a thing? Furthermore, how is keeping the 7th-day Sabbath initiated at Creation considered to be 'keeping the law' but keeping Sunday as initiated by the RCC NOT considered to be 'keeping of the law'? It doesn't make sense. All Christianity has done is to replace one 24-hour day with another and call Sunday 'good' and Saturday 'bad'. The mind boggles. And, while most Christians are ignorant - understandably so - about what happened so long ago, those that DO know STILL so militantly defend the RCC's change of Sabbath. Moreover - and this is a perfect example of how the majority of Christians simply follow the teachings of their particular denomination without doing any research of their own - the huge majority of Christians have seen the Ten Commandments numerous times but still don't make the connection to the 7th-day of the week as being SATURDAY and not SUNDAY as referenced in the 4th-commandment.mjrhealth said:
Why do Christians keep Sunday instead of Saturday? As said previously ...that's the day the church doors are open. Why do Christians not keep the Sabbath? Convenience. Saturday is sports day, the day for shopping, the day off work for many, etc. etc. Why does mainstream Christianity not argue for keeping the Sabbath but SO militantly defends the keeping of Sunday? Because Christ rose from the dead on that day? Nope. This is what Easter is for. Jesus' resurrection doesn't need to be celebrated every week. The truth is, Christianity CANNOT admit to being wrong. It really is that simple.
The above ...nothing to do with the topic. When all else fails, toss in some unrelated scripture to confuse the average Christian. They've already bought RCC's 'sabbath' so throwing difficult to understand scriptures at the layman to support this bogus day will generally satisfy them. Deception?mjrhealth said:
For those that may be seriously considering this topic and have a genuine interest as to how the 7th-day Sabbath was changed to Sunday I refer them to the below link. While I much prefer to post this info personally and am not keen on links, the contents are far too lengthy (but quite reader-friendly) to post here. The items contained in the link include: Catholic Admissions on the Sabbath Day and also Protestant Admissions on the Sabbath Day.
http://www.sa-hebroots.com/catholic_admissions.php
God does not care which day we keep to Him, some keep saturday soem keep sunday some keep all there days. It is the "flesh" that constantly needs to do work so that it feels good. Christ is our rest, we rest in Him from all our own works
There is one work we need to do,
Joh_6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God, that you believe on Him whom He has sent.
I please God through my faith not any work that I do. The sabbath has become a stumbling block to you dont make it a stumbling block to others.
In All His Love
There is one work we need to do,
Joh_6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God, that you believe on Him whom He has sent.
I please God through my faith not any work that I do. The sabbath has become a stumbling block to you dont make it a stumbling block to others.
In All His Love
Excuse me ...we ARE talking about 'obedience' are we not? Where, in scripture, does it say that God does not care which day we keep to Him? I see the opposite ...He DOES care! I'm continually being chided on this forum - not by you - for my perceived disobedience to God but in this case I see MASS disobedience to God including that by those who chide me. Forget about 'the flesh' and the other cliches that are bandied about. We are talking about a physical (if you like) 24-hour period that was set aside, sanctified and blessed at Creation and incorporated into the Ten Commandments AS a commandment to be obeyed. Question: Do you believe in - and claim to be obedient to - the Ten Commandments?mjrhealth said:
WHY - I ask again - is the God-ordained 7th-day Sabbath a 'stumbling block' but the RCC-ordained counterfeit 'sabbath' (Sunday) NOT a stumbling block? Sorry, but this does not compute . . .mjrhealth said:
The question is why are you getting so frustrated with it all. If you want to keep teh sabbath, go right ahead it wont change what God thinks of you, and me not keeping it wont change anything either. I please God through my faith, He already aproves of me because of the work Jesus did. I am not going to be the one who says to Jesus, "the price you paid was not enough so I am going to add to the cost by my own works". He already paid the price keeping the sabbath wont change anything, the problem is if you break it you condemn yourself beacuse you have chosen the law over grace, you have made it a law unto yourself that you must keep. To break it brings only death, it is not covered by grace when it is the law. The law demands blood, this is what Jesus did His blood was the price paid for us, but because you choose the law over grace, the price is not covered by His sacrifice and it must be paid by you. Death is the only conequence of breaking the law. So if you choose to stay where you are, than you now know the consequences.
In All His Love
In All His Love
If I'm frustrated at all it's because the question in my OP remains unanswered. The question I asked is ...why do Christians not honor the Sabbath? I'm getting everything other than an answer to that question. You mention that keeping the 7th-day Sabbath is tantamount to 'choosing the law over grace'. But ...Christians already have and keep a 'sabbath' called Sunday. Why is one considered 'choosing the law over grace' but not the other? Why is it so difficult for anyone to offer a suitable answer to this rather simple question? I also asked another question of you that you didn't answer. That is, do you believe in - and claim obedience to - the Ten Commandments?mjrhealth said:
Because it is teh law, the law was given to teh Jews, I am not a Jew, iI am a gentile, the law is not mine nor yours, We came to Christ under grace, so why do you run to teh law. The law did one thing. it told us we are sinners. Christ died for our sins."ONCE AND FOR ALL" the law was nailed to the cross. The question is why do you want to earn your way to heaven when Christ has alerady paid the price for entry. Simply put, you want an answer that agrees with you, sorry to do that we would have to lie.
Without faith you cannot please God. Have FAith God happy, end of story.
The ten commandments, written in teh hearts and minds of men, no longer a law. Christ gave us a new law, " LOVE". in this we keep teh law because Love chooses not oto do those things. No longer is it a work of the flesh but a work that comes from love. No longer does it condemn because it is no longer aour work.
In all His Love
Without faith you cannot please God. Have FAith God happy, end of story.
The ten commandments, written in teh hearts and minds of men, no longer a law. Christ gave us a new law, " LOVE". in this we keep teh law because Love chooses not oto do those things. No longer is it a work of the flesh but a work that comes from love. No longer does it condemn because it is no longer aour work.
In all His Love
I guess there is no point continuing this with you but the fact STILL REMAINS that Christians have a 'sabbath' in Sunday. They keep that day as a 'holy' day diligently. You don't need to answer this but I will ask again just for the heck of it why keeping Saturday (the Sabbath) is regarded as 'a work of the flesh' but Sunday is not ...? For some reason this registers with you but certainly not with me. It actually contradicts what you say because Christianity STILL has a 'sabbath'.mjrhealth said:
????
It is all teh flesh, it is all vanity, it is bondage and slavery to the flesh and religion,. There is no honor fo God in mens relligions and mens ways, as Jesus said,
Mat 15:8 "This people draws near to Me with their mouth, and honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.
When christians put down there bibles, walk out of church and run to Jesus than they will honor Him, everything else is lipservice. A more baffling question is why dont christians just honor God by praising Him everyday and making everyday Holy to Him. satan loves teh religious they do him and his plans no harm, it is teh ones who spend all there time in Christ that He hates because they are the ones that cause him teh most grief and they pay teh price for it.
In all His Love
Mat 15:8 "This people draws near to Me with their mouth, and honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.
When christians put down there bibles, walk out of church and run to Jesus than they will honor Him, everything else is lipservice. A more baffling question is why dont christians just honor God by praising Him everyday and making everyday Holy to Him. satan loves teh religious they do him and his plans no harm, it is teh ones who spend all there time in Christ that He hates because they are the ones that cause him teh most grief and they pay teh price for it.
In all His Love
Either you have missed or simply ignored what everyone has posted. The whole law including the ten commandments have been abrogated according to the scriptures and HolySpirit yet you continue to argue. It seems to me you are unteachable so I won't be wasting any more words with you, you simply want to argue without sense.KCKID said:
We see through many stories in the Bible that outward religion can covers up the true condition of the heart. The manifestations of the Fruit of the Spirit is not religious activity, but peace, love, gentleness, hope, etc. Certainly not worry and unbelief or works of self-righteousness.
Whenever you have outward rules you must by definition have exceptions which are not mentioned in the NT.
Many people cannot physically rest on Saturday as they are in labor camps working 7 days a week. Where is the exception for this? Are they not honoring the Lord with their trust and faith in Him? Is it not true REST to be resting from your own labors of righteousness and trust in Christ's work?
Are those who must physically work on Saturday to feed their family not resting in the Lord, spiritually? Are we going to judge their faith in God, their spiritual disposition and position in Christ?
Does God put a higher premium on physical rest as opposed to spiritual rest?
Jesus was speaking about spiritual things in the following verse.
Mat_11:28
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Jesus is the fulfillment of the 4th commandment. He is the DAY of Salvation. He is our DAY, everyday!!
Jesus offers a much Better REST than the type and shadow of physical rest in the OT. We are to be resting in Him 7 days a week not 1 day. My good works could never bring me peace or save me. I have rested from these and taken up His offer to come to Him for His REST. Why would I want an inferior rest, a shadow or type from the past?
Hebrews 4:1–2 says, “God';s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news — that God has prepared this rest — has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn';t share the faith of those who listened to God.” But there is one condition for entering into this rest, the better rest in Jesus Christ: We have to believe! (Hebrews 4:3).
The writer of Hebrews tells us, “So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God';s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world” (Hebrews 4:9–10). This is a different rest, a better rest, because it is an everlasting rest. It is the rest Jesus gives us that allows us to cease from all work when it comes to earning our salvation, and it is the rest we have in knowing that we don't need to rely on our own strength to live the lives God wants us to live.
When the writer of Hebrews wrote, “So in my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,'” he was quoting Psalm 95:11, which refers to the generation of Israelites who, because of their unbelief and rebellion, died in the wilderness without seeing the Promised Land.
Jesus Christ can be your REST 7 days a week. Will you believe and trust in Him or will you die in the wildnerness of rebellion?
Jesus is the "Better Rest" of God.
The promised land was a picture of Godʼs eternal rest in Jesus and their unbelief excluded them from it, the author is guessing that some of us are wondering if there still is a rest for Godʼs people. Whenever the New Testament uses the word Sabbath in a positive lightitʼs talking about the rest we have in Jesus, having completed the work for us on the cross. It ʼs not just a day of the week we take to reflect on the cross, but itʼs now an everyday thing where we get to enjoy God and be refreshed through His rest. So every day becomes a Sabbath. We can work, play and enjoy life to Godʼs glory all while resting in the finished work of Jesus.
Axehead
Whenever you have outward rules you must by definition have exceptions which are not mentioned in the NT.
Many people cannot physically rest on Saturday as they are in labor camps working 7 days a week. Where is the exception for this? Are they not honoring the Lord with their trust and faith in Him? Is it not true REST to be resting from your own labors of righteousness and trust in Christ's work?
Are those who must physically work on Saturday to feed their family not resting in the Lord, spiritually? Are we going to judge their faith in God, their spiritual disposition and position in Christ?
Does God put a higher premium on physical rest as opposed to spiritual rest?
Jesus was speaking about spiritual things in the following verse.
Mat_11:28
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Jesus is the fulfillment of the 4th commandment. He is the DAY of Salvation. He is our DAY, everyday!!
Jesus offers a much Better REST than the type and shadow of physical rest in the OT. We are to be resting in Him 7 days a week not 1 day. My good works could never bring me peace or save me. I have rested from these and taken up His offer to come to Him for His REST. Why would I want an inferior rest, a shadow or type from the past?
Hebrews 4:1–2 says, “God';s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news — that God has prepared this rest — has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn';t share the faith of those who listened to God.” But there is one condition for entering into this rest, the better rest in Jesus Christ: We have to believe! (Hebrews 4:3).
The writer of Hebrews tells us, “So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God';s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world” (Hebrews 4:9–10). This is a different rest, a better rest, because it is an everlasting rest. It is the rest Jesus gives us that allows us to cease from all work when it comes to earning our salvation, and it is the rest we have in knowing that we don't need to rely on our own strength to live the lives God wants us to live.
When the writer of Hebrews wrote, “So in my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,'” he was quoting Psalm 95:11, which refers to the generation of Israelites who, because of their unbelief and rebellion, died in the wilderness without seeing the Promised Land.
Jesus Christ can be your REST 7 days a week. Will you believe and trust in Him or will you die in the wildnerness of rebellion?
Jesus is the "Better Rest" of God.
The promised land was a picture of Godʼs eternal rest in Jesus and their unbelief excluded them from it, the author is guessing that some of us are wondering if there still is a rest for Godʼs people. Whenever the New Testament uses the word Sabbath in a positive lightitʼs talking about the rest we have in Jesus, having completed the work for us on the cross. It ʼs not just a day of the week we take to reflect on the cross, but itʼs now an everyday thing where we get to enjoy God and be refreshed through His rest. So every day becomes a Sabbath. We can work, play and enjoy life to Godʼs glory all while resting in the finished work of Jesus.
Axehead
I have not missed nor have I ignored what everyone has posted, And, please, stop speaking down to me. Okay? I simply do NOT agree with what you've posted AT ALL and I reject your teaching point blank. Faith without works is dead (James 2:14-26) but you guys are denying this text, are you not? "What good is it my brothers and sisters if someone claims to have faith but no deeds? Can such faith save them?" Of COURSE we all know that 'the law' is encompassed into two commandments, 1. love God with all your heart and soul and mind, and 2. love your neighbor as yourself. We all know how to love our neighbor, of course, but how does one love God? Two-fold. Loving one's neighbor would obviously please God but so would honoring the first four of the Ten Commandments. How else? Do you guys have no other God? Do you make graven images? Do you take the Lord's name in vain? So far you're probably keeping 3 of those laws that were supposedly abrogated. Do you keep the Sabbath? Actually, yes you 'sort of' do. But you call it ...Sunday. But ...wasn't the sabbath abrogated according to you?jiggyfly said:
I realize that you and I are from different schools on this issue, jiggy, but you say - erroneously- that I'm arguing without sense. I find the shoe to be VERY MUCH on the other foot. You say that the commandments - in THIS case the Sabbath since this is the thread topic - has been abrogated 'according to scripture' but this simply is not true and most of you guys prove this every week. SUNDAY is your 'sabbath' and woe betide anyone try to take that day from you! Most Christians cling to that day militantly! Is this simply one of those quirks of Christianity (there are heaps of them) that no one can quite explain? What I am asking of you all makes perfect sense! Once again. WHY DO YOU REQUIRE A SPECIAL 'HOLY' DAY EACH WEEK IF HOLY DAYS HAVE BEEN ABROGATED? AND, AS LONG AS YOU DO REQUIRE A HOLY DAY EACH WEEK THEN WHY NOT KEEP THE ONE (the 7th-day) THAT GOD ASKED YOU TO KEEP?
Geez . . .someone, anyone ...please put me out of my misery and answer that one question ...!
KCID you have completely missed the point. You have done as so many do., put all christians into one basket. If the dont worship saturday they must worship sunday. For those who belong to Jesus this is not true, they worship Him everyday, everyday is special, every day is given to Him, everyday is a " must have Jesus " day, not a single day can go by without Him. Today christians from all over the world will be going to church worshiping an unknown God, it will tickle there flesh, make them feel good. like mcdonalds it will fill them but there is no nutrition, for they continually forsake the one who is the truth, "Jesus". They will not go to Him, they follow after mens teachings, mens doctrines, mens ideas, mens traditions, filled with knowledge but not knowing the truth. There heads are buried in a book looking for the truth while the truth stands knocking on there door, asking to be let in.
Christianity is not about laws or rules or church or traditions, it is not meant to be"bible based" it is supposed to be Christ alone, the narrow path that so few seem to find , just as Jesus said. Yes it is all the flesh and the devil loves it.
The disciples came into faith, led by the spirit, but todays christians are carnal. always seeking after the flesh because it feels good. Even Saul who became Paul. a pharisee of pharisees he said, knew the scriptures like the back of his hand counted t all for nothing, wasnt worth the effort, no he sought Jesus alone. it wasnt till he found Him that he was satisfied. Religion is dead,it brings only death, there is no life in religion, it puts men into slavery to denominations and men, egypt or bablylon its all the same. You will only find life in Christ alone.
Faith without works is an excuse again for men to run around trying to please God. When you have faith the works come, not your works,His works , when you have faith and He can use you than works will follow, till than it is all the flesh and vanity.
In all His Love
Christianity is not about laws or rules or church or traditions, it is not meant to be"bible based" it is supposed to be Christ alone, the narrow path that so few seem to find , just as Jesus said. Yes it is all the flesh and the devil loves it.
The disciples came into faith, led by the spirit, but todays christians are carnal. always seeking after the flesh because it feels good. Even Saul who became Paul. a pharisee of pharisees he said, knew the scriptures like the back of his hand counted t all for nothing, wasnt worth the effort, no he sought Jesus alone. it wasnt till he found Him that he was satisfied. Religion is dead,it brings only death, there is no life in religion, it puts men into slavery to denominations and men, egypt or bablylon its all the same. You will only find life in Christ alone.
Faith without works is an excuse again for men to run around trying to please God. When you have faith the works come, not your works,His works , when you have faith and He can use you than works will follow, till than it is all the flesh and vanity.
In all His Love
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