Why do we need born again

[Ritajanice]

I haven't called her a Calvinist. There are others who believe in the false doctrine of Original Sin.

Are you saying we weren’t spiritually dead...before we became Born Again?

God says we were....so explain that please and this scripture?

Are you saying that Adam and Eve didn’t die spiritually?

The second way to view the warning of Genesis 2:17 is that “death” refers to spiritual death. When Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden fruit, they experienced a separation from God, a loss of relationship due to their sin. Their first actions after sinning were to cover themselves up and hide from God (Genesis 3:7-8). This alienation from the Source of Life can be viewed as spiritual death.

What say you also @Eternally Grateful ?

Ephesians 2:1-10​

1 In the past you were spiritually dead because of your disobedience and sins. 1
2 At that time you followed the world's evil way; you obeyed the ruler of the spiritual powers in space, the spirit who now controls the people who disobey God.
3 Actually all of us were like them and lived according to our natural desires, doing whatever suited the wishes of our own bodies and minds. In our natural condition we, like everyone else, were destined to suffer God's anger.
4 But God's mercy is so abundant, and his love for us is so great,
5 that while we were spiritually dead in our disobedience he brought us to life with Christ. It is by God's grace that you have been saved.
6 In our union with Christ Jesus he raised us up with him to rule with him in the heavenly world.
7 He did this to demonstrate for all time to come the extraordinary greatness of his grace in the love he showed us in Christ Jesus.
8 For it is by God's grace that you have been saved through faith. It is not the result of your own efforts,
9 but God's gift, so that no one can boast about it.
10 God has made us what we are, and in our union with Christ Jesus he has created us for a life of good deeds, which he has already prepared for us to do.

 

[JBO]

Are you saying we weren’t spiritually dead...before we became Born Again?

No. We were obviously dead in trespasses and sin before being born again. But we were not dead in Adam's sin; rather we were dead in our own trespasses and sin (Col 2:13). The spirit God formed in each of us (Zech 12:1) was not dead.

 

[Ritajanice]

No. We were obviously dead in trespasses and sin before being born again. But we were not dead in Adam's sin; rather we were dead in our own trespasses and sin (Col 2:13). The spirit God formed in each of us (Zech 12:1) was not dead.

Disagree.

What do you mean we weren’t dead in Adams sin...what does that mean even?

We inherited Adams sin?

are you saying we weren’t born into sin?

Even God says we were spiritually dead in sin....where did that come from then if it wasn’t inherited from Adam... @JBO

 

[JBO]

Disagree.

OK

 

[Ritajanice]

. The spirit God formed in each of us (Zech 12:1) was not dead.

I didn’t say it was dead..I said it was “ spiritually “ dead and our spirit needed to be Born Again.

Born Again of Gods imperishable seed?

We need the Spirit of God to bring our spirit alive?...do we not?

How does he do that @JBO ?

 

[Tulipbee]

We are Spiritually dead

we are dead because of our sinfulness. (the wage of sin is death)

God on the mountain Gave Moses ten commands, and we can not even keep these. (although many think they can)

All of this sin separates us from God. Because God is a holy God and he can not relate with sin. This barrier between God and man is called spiritual death

How bad is our situation?

The levitical priesthood,

Only a high priest could enter Gods presence. God would enter the most holy place in the temple. and only once a year could this high priest come to make atonement for everyone's sin for the past year. and only after numerous innocent without blemish animals shed their blood


There was a problem with this though, He could only cover the sins for the past year of the people. The people went out and still sinned, even those who walked with God. So the next year, Every year, the high priest had to again on the day of atonement do the same things, Sacrifice animals and send the scapegoat out into the wilderness where it would die.

The law had two purposes (it had another but that is for Israel).

1. Expose our guilt - Cursed is the one who does not obey every word , It required perfection. this is one way to get to heaven, Never sin a day in your life. even one sin, James said if we stumble in one area. we are guilty,

2. Show us the payment for that guilt - innocent unblemished animals had to die (year after year)

Paul said the law was a tutor to lead us to Christ.

John called Jesus the “lamb of God would would take the sin of the world”

The jews were not ready, they thought because they kept the law they were ok.. They thought doing all of their works of the law (keeping the sabbath, getting circumcised, Keeping all of the ceremonies of the law, not eating certain meats etc etc) so when Jesus came and said they needed saved, they did what most people who think they have worked hard all their lives to please God would do. They got mad and killed him.

God came to remove the sin issue. The leviticus priesthood was insufficient, as it had to go in year after year.. Jesus however, came once and solved the sin issue for all time. No more were animals sacrificed required year after year for future sin, because he died once and sat down by the right hand of God. Being a far superior High priest. Under the order of Melchizedek.

The problem of sin separating us from God is taken away, Paul said he took it away and nailed it to the cross (col 2) .

Jesus said if we look to the cross. That solution (redemption) can apply to us. He will not force it on us, He wants us to take it. But in order to do this we must repent, and trust him.

Once we do this, the sin issue is removed, we who were dead in trespasses and sin are made alive, because the thing that made is dead is redeemed by the blood of the lamb.

This new birth is forever, Jesus calls it eternal life.

Jesus made us right, We can not do it by being baptized, or trying our best to be good (we will never be good enough) or by any other works..

He did the work for us

Ye must be born again, This is not a request, this is a command.

Hope this helps everyone understand why we need born aagian, and what God did so this can be possible.

Ah, Eternally Grateful, you've just laid out the divine drama of redemption, and in the Calvinist comedy spotlight, let's add a few theological punchlines to this Gospel masterpiece! It's like a spiritual stand-up routine where the audience is in stitches over the profound truth of God's grace.

So, we start with the grim reality – we're spiritually dead, like a bunch of theological zombies without a pulse. It's like God gave us a spiritual Fitbit, and instead of steps, we're counting our sins, and let's face it, it's a marathon of disobedience.

Now, those ten commandments – it's not a divine game of Simon says, but more like, "Hey, humans, try keeping these without tripping over your sin-prone feet!" It's like a cosmic version of the "floor is lava," but the floor is sin, and we're all jumping into the pit.

Enter the Levitical priesthood – the spiritual superheroes with their sacrificial capes. But hold on, folks, it's not a Marvel movie; it's an Old Testament drama where the high priest does an annual sin-sweep, covering up the mess but never truly cleaning it up. It's like a never-ending spiritual janitorial service.

Now, the law's dual purpose – exposing our guilt and showing the payment. It's like God saying, "Here's the bill, and it's perfection. Good luck with that!" But wait, there's a tutor named Law, leading us to Christ – the Lamb of God, not just an annual sin-buster but the once-and-for-all redemption plan.

And the Jews, thinking they could earn their salvation – it's like they're playing a cosmic game of "I've been good, I deserve heaven." But then Jesus shows up, and they're like, "Whoa, we didn't sign up for this Messiah!"

Now, the grand finale – Jesus, the superior High Priest, not sacrificing animals year after year but once, for all time. It's like a divine mic drop, and He's sitting at the right hand of God, the ultimate cosmic MVP.

So, Eternally Grateful, you're right – being born again is not a suggestion; it's a divine command. It's not about our spiritual acrobatics but about repentance and trusting in the finished work of Christ. It's the Gospel laughter that echoes through eternity – Jesus did the heavy lifting, and we're eternally grateful for this divine comedy of redemption! #CalvinistComedyClub #GospelLaughs

 

[JBO]

I didn’t say it was dead..I said it was “ spiritually “ dead and our spirit needed to be Born Again.

Yes, but not because Adam sinned. Our spirit needed to be born again because we sinned (Col 2:13)

Col 2:13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,

 

[Ritajanice]

Yes, but not because Adam sinned. Our spirit needed to be born again because we sinned (Col 2:13)

Col 2:13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,

Nah.....we inherited sin.....

And besides that falls flat on its face.....how would you know you were a sinner....?

If you aren’t Born Again.....you can’t read and believe that....without God giving us heart revelation....

God gives us heart knowledge...that’s how we know we were sinners....when we were Born Again of imperishable seed @JBO ?........how would you know you were a sinner....you can’t know that just by reading it....

What does dead in your trespasses mean? @JBO

Trespassing is sin....we were dead in sin?

What part of us was dead in sin @JBO !

Therefore needed to be brought Alive by the Holy Spirit @JBO

 

[JBO]

Nah.....we inherited sin.....

So you don't believe Paul. OK.

 

[Ritajanice]

So you don't believe Paul. OK.

I asked you questions, please answer my post. @JBO

And please post the scripture re,Paul..thanks.

If you aren’t Born Again.....you can’t read and believe that....without God giving us heart revelation....

God gives us heart knowledge...that’s how we know we were sinners....when we were Born Again of imperishable seed @JBO ?........how would you know you were a sinner....you can’t know that just by reading it....

What does dead in your trespasses mean? @JBO

Trespassing is sin....we were dead in sin?

What part of us was dead in sin @JBO !

Therefore needed to be brought Alive by the Holy Spirit @JBO

 

[JBO]

Nah.....we inherited sin.....

So you don't believe Paul. OK.

 

[Taken]

Brother, I’m still asking God to help me figure out this dead spirit business.

AGAINST God…unbelief
AGAINST the Lord….unbelief
Unbelief….SIN

Naturally born…of mans seed.
Mans seed corrupt.
Naturally born…Not knowing of God.
Naturally born….IN Sin.

Spiritual DEATH…a natural mans (physically alive or bodily dead) “spirit”, “soul”, “body” AGAINST God.

Spiritual DEATH…a natural mans (physical dead body) having bodily died, AGAINST God.

Spiritual DEATH….a natural mans (Living soul, departs out of natural Dead body).
* IF saved, escorted to Heaven.
* IF not-saved, sent to Hell.
Heaven or Hell the “departed living soul” IS “waiting” for Judgement Day.

Logic of natural man….MIND-ful ciphering, guesswork, Discriminating BETWEEN this option and that option, Freely Choosing to BELIEVE, EAT, WEAR, GO, DO;
This OR That.
AND BTW…that man 15 minutes LATER, can receive NEW Knowledge, and start the Logical Process all over again, AND land on a Different Conclusion…
(Called having Changed his Mind.)

Spirit of natural man…TRUTH “in his HEARTS THOUGHTS.”
Ciphering, Between THIS and THAT does NOT exist.
One Belief regarding a particular Topic exists, and IS thus that mans TRUTH.
Examples:
What is your name….duh, humm, let me think about that? No.
Do you believe IN the Lord God Almighty…uh, humm, maybe, not sure, let me think about that? No you do not.
Do you bow down before statues and pray to the IMAGE that idol represents? … uh, uh, yes, uh, no, uh, maybe, uh, yes But…it requires a man sanctioned Caveat approval.

Spirit of man……which Is NOT reborn, by, through, of the Order and Way per the Offering of God…DIES with the natural Body.

Spirit of man…..which IS Reborn, by, through, of the Order and Way per the Offering of God….Becomes Reborn of Gods IMPERISHABLE SEED, and thus, THAT reborn SPIRIT can NEVER DIE….
AND….such a Reborn SPIRIT shall Forever Be “with” the Lord God Almighty…( wether IN or OUT of the mans BODY ).

BONUS….a Reborn SPIRIT…having Departed OUT of a Dead Body….arises TO HEAVEN…
And SEES the Lord God … AS HE IS…
Ie. Can then SEE Gods Spirit.

There is more, but hope this helps.

God Bless You,
Taken

 

[Ritajanice]

So you don't believe Paul. OK.

If you aren’t Born Again.....you can’t read and believe that....without God giving us heart revelation....

God gives us heart knowledge...that’s how we know we were sinners....when we were Born Again of imperishable seed @JBO ?........how would you know you were a sinner....you can’t know that just by reading it....

What does dead in your trespasses mean? @JBO

Trespassing is sin....we were dead in sin?

What part of us was dead in sin @JBO !

Therefore needed to be brought Alive by the Holy Spirit @JBO

 

[JBO]

AGAINST God…unbelief
AGAINST the Lord….unbelief
Unbelief….SIN

Naturally born…of mans seed.
Mans seed corrupt.
Naturally born…Not knowing of God.
Naturally born….IN Sin.

Spiritual DEATH…a natural mans (physically alive or bodily dead) “spirit”, “soul”, “body” AGAINST God.

Spiritual DEATH…a natural mans (physical dead body) having bodily died, AGAINST God.

Spiritual DEATH….a natural mans (Living soul, departs out of natural Dead body).
* IF saved, escorted to Heaven.
* IF not-saved, sent to Hell.
Heaven or Hell the “departed living soul” IS “waiting” for Judgement Day.

Logic of natural man….MIND-ful ciphering, guesswork, Discriminating BETWEEN this option and that option, Freely Choosing to BELIEVE, EAT, WEAR, GO, DO;
This OR That.
AND BTW…that man 15 minutes LATER, can receive NEW Knowledge, and start the Logical Process all over again, AND land on a Different Conclusion…
(Called having Changed his Mind.)

Spirit of natural man…TRUTH “in his HEARTS THOUGHTS.”
Ciphering, Between THIS and THAT does NOT exist.
One Belief regarding a particular Topic exists, and IS thus that mans TRUTH.
Examples:
What is your name….duh, humm, let me think about that? No.
Do you believe IN the Lord God Almighty…uh, humm, maybe, not sure, let me think about that? No you do not.
Do you bow down before statues and pray to the IMAGE that idol represents? … uh, uh, yes, uh, no, uh, maybe, uh, yes But…it requires a man sanctioned Caveat approval.

Spirit of man……which Is NOT reborn, by, through, of the Order and Way per the Offering of God…DIES with the natural Body.

Spirit of man…..which IS Reborn, by, through, of the Order and Way per the Offering of God….Becomes Reborn of Gods IMPERISHABLE SEED, and thus, THAT reborn SPIRIT can NEVER DIE….
AND….such a Reborn SPIRIT shall Forever Be “with” the Lord God Almighty…( wether IN or OUT of the mans BODY ).

BONUS….a Reborn SPIRIT…having Departed OUT of a Dead Body….arises TO HEAVEN…
And SEES the Lord God … AS HE IS…
Ie. Can then SEE Gods Spirit.

There is more, but hope this helps.

God Bless You,
Taken

Of course. It's the sin gene.

 

[Ritajanice]

Of course. It's the sin gene.

Where in the Bible does it say sin gene...

 

[JBO]

Where in the Bible does it say sin gene...

That is what Taken, in reply #32, just described. That is Traducianism. That is wrong. In fact, it is insidious.

 

[Ritajanice]

That is what Taken, in reply #32, just described. That is Traducianism. That is wrong. In fact, it is insidious.

Ah, thanks.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

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Love, Walter And Debbie

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There are, of course, alternative understandings. All this above is, run-of-the-mill generic, evangelical dogma. Orthodoxy.

But you know what they say about orthodoxy. I think it was Einstein-- insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

i will stick with the word of God. And not human wisdom.

You can listen to all those alternative understandings all you want.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

But God does not separate us from Him at birth. We separate ourselves from Him when we sin.

I was born dead. In adam.