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Try to be logical. If the president gets impeached, that is covered by the Constitution, so what are you talking about?If the president of the United States gets impeached, it does not mean the Constitution and the Bill of Rights are wrong, it means that president failed in his duties as president. Similarly, if a bishop goes bad, it does not prove the doctrine of ordination is wrong, it means that particular bishop failed in his duties as bishop. Similarly, if a "marriage" goes bad, that does not prove the sacrament of matrimony is wrong. The attempt to disprove the validity of ordination because there have been bad bishops is just stupid reasoning.
Why the unpleasant tone? You having a bad hair day? My question is if a bishop goes bad, what about the priests he's ordained?Arius, Nestorius, Apollinarus, and every heretic in the patristic period thumbed their noses at the authority of the Church, and went by scripture alone. They did not disprove the office of bishop, they disproved themselves.
Don't you yet know that every "born again christian" is a priest and king unto the Lord for His purposes?Why do we need priests?
I was pondering this question in my mind yesterday. I can understand why the unsaved or unbelievers might need priests to act as intermediaries between them and God but I can’t understand why those of us who are born again in Christ need priests as the bible calls us a Royal Priesthood. We have direct access to the Father’s throne so we do not need anybody else to access him for us.
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 1 Peter 2:9
Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. Hebrews 4:16
We do however, need people to be there with us and for us; to hold up our arms, to wipe our tears and to share our joy. We do need a support network of other Christians; people who will pray with us and for us, encourage, inspire and help us. We need teachers and preachers and we definitely need wise counsellors and inspirational leaders with passion, vision and enthusiasm.
But we do not need priests.
And this:
2 Cor. 5[20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
The royal priesthood is not made up of those "highly trained", but of those of the birthright of the spirit of God. This too was the error of Korah.2 Cor. 5[20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
as though God did beseech you by us lends itself to the notion of apostolic succession. "us" can only mean the Apostles, and the "you" is in reference to those trained as bishops by "us". 2 Cor. 5:18 Nowhere in scripture does the common priesthood have the ministry of reconciliation. That function belongs to the ministerial priesthood. Anointing of the Sick is another function belonging to the ministerial priesthood. It means the same thing as "elder".
The Latin phrase: "Alter Christus" means the same thing as we pray you in Christ's stead; a title reserved for the ministerial priesthood. We are all priests but we don't have the same ministerial functions as a highly trained bishop, and by extension, the Office of the Ministerial Priesthood.
Quite so! I seems you may not have read my opening question correctly.Don't you yet know that every "born again christian" is a priest and king unto the Lord for His purposes?
Ooopps! Sorry about that!Quite so! I seems you may not have read my opening question correctly.
So that the pedophiles in Hollywood and Washington don't get lonely.Why do we need priests?
I was pondering this question in my mind yesterday. I can understand why the unsaved or unbelievers might need priests to act as intermediaries between them and God but I can’t understand why those of us who are born again in Christ need priests as the bible calls us a Royal Priesthood. We have direct access to the Father’s throne so we do not need anybody else to access him for us.
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 1 Peter 2:9
Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. Hebrews 4:16
We do however, need people to be there with us and for us; to hold up our arms, to wipe our tears and to share our joy. We do need a support network of other Christians; people who will pray with us and for us, encourage, inspire and help us. We need teachers and preachers and we definitely need wise counsellors and inspirational leaders with passion, vision and enthusiasm.
But we do not need priests.
The Protestant objection to human intercession is based largely on a single line of Scripture that says, “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus…” (1 Tim. 2:5).Why do we need priests?
I was pondering this question in my mind yesterday. I can understand why the unsaved or unbelievers might need priests to act as intermediaries between them and God but I can’t understand why those of us who are born again in Christ need priests as the bible calls us a Royal Priesthood. We have direct access to the Father’s throne so we do not need anybody else to access him for us.
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 1 Peter 2:9
Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. Hebrews 4:16
We do however, need people to be there with us and for us; to hold up our arms, to wipe our tears and to share our joy. We do need a support network of other Christians; people who will pray with us and for us, encourage, inspire and help us. We need teachers and preachers and we definitely need wise counsellors and inspirational leaders with passion, vision and enthusiasm.
But we do not need priests.
People needed the priests of old as they were the only ones permitted into the Holy of Holies, but Jesus's death split the temple curtain and made it possible for us to approach God directly as our Father.
Matthew 27:51
At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split
Mark 15:38
The curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.
Luke 23:45
for the sun stopped shining. And the curtain of the temple was torn in two.
Hebrews 10:19-21
Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, and since we have a great priest over the house of God,
The curtain of the temple was the actual curtain that separated the Holy Place from the main area. The blood of Jesus tore away the symbolic curtain that separated us from the Holy Place. And that is why we no longer need a priest in order to receive forgiveness from God; we can approach Him directly because of Jesus.
No. I am not mistaken. It is you who has been dishonest about your own church's beliefs.
THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
1333 At the heart of the Eucharistic celebration are the bread and wine that, by the words of Christ and the invocation of the Holy Spirit, become Christ's Body and Blood.... [to be understood literally]
1350 The presentation of the offerings (the Offertory). Then, sometimes in procession, the bread and wine are brought to the altar; they will be offered by the priest in the name of Christ in the Eucharistic sacrifice in which they will become his body and blood...
1357 We carry out this command of the Lord by celebrating the memorial of his sacrifice. In so doing, we offer to the Father what he has himself given us: the gifts of his creation, bread and wine which, by the power of the Holy Spirit and by the words of Christ, have become the body and blood of Christ. Christ is thus really and mysteriously made present...
1365 Because it is the memorial of Christ's Passover, the Eucharist is also a sacrifice. the sacrificial character of the Eucharist is manifested in the very words of institution: "This is my body which is given for you" and "This cup which is poured out for you is the New Covenant in my blood." In the Eucharist Christ gives us the very body which he gave up for us on the cross, the very blood which he "poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."...
1366 The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross, because it is its memorial and because it applies its fruit:... [THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE SAID]
1367 The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice: "The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different." "In this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner."
1375 It is by the conversion of the bread and wine into Christ's body and blood that Christ becomes present in this sacrament. the Church Fathers strongly affirmed the faith of the Church in the efficacy of the Word of Christ and of the action of the Holy Spirit to bring about this conversion...
1376 The Council of Trent summarizes the Catholic faith by declaring: "Because Christ our Redeemer said that it was truly his body that he was offering under the species of bread, it has always been the conviction of the Church of God, and this holy Council now declares again, that by the consecration of the bread and wine there takes place a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood. This change the holy Catholic Church has fittingly and properly called transubstantiation...
Like so many churches, the RC church believes that if they say something then it must be. Whether it is or not is not relevant to them. They are the final authority so what they say has to be believed and accepted. I worked in a catholic school for some time and asked a few pertinent questions of the catholic teachers there. I asked one, what does blood taste like? He said it tasted like wine. I told him I thought someone was having a lend of him. According to him, that was the way things were because the church said so.
In another situation, I worked with a devout catholic who always went to mass before he came to work. I asked why and he said because it meant he had a better chance to escape purgatory and go to heaven. In other words, he was accruing brownie points towards his salvation. Why did he do this? Because that is what the church said.
Religion cripples people. A relationship with Jesus sets us free.Like so many churches, the RC church believes that if they say something then it must be. Whether it is or not is not relevant to them. They are the final authority so what they say has to be believed and accepted. I worked in a catholic school for some time and asked a few pertinent questions of the catholic teachers there. I asked one, what does blood taste like? He said it tasted like wine. I told him I thought someone was having a lend of him. According to him, that was the way things were because the church said so.
In another situation, I worked with a devout catholic who always went to mass before he came to work. I asked why and he said because it meant he had a better chance to escape purgatory and go to heaven. In other words, he was accruing brownie points towards his salvation. Why did he do this? Because that is what the church said.
Perfect, and simple answer Pat. So many thinks their "works" will bring them salvation...sad.Religion cripples people. A relationship with Jesus sets us free.
so he was superstitious about going to Mass - because the Church doesn’t teach that going to daily Mass gets you out of Purgatory. Perhaps he was actually talking about his spiritual growth which involved daily Mass.
What also "cripples" people are false accusations . . .Religion cripples people. A relationship with Jesus sets us free.
Why don't you expose the lie that the wine turns into blood at the mass?What also "cripples" people are false accusations . . .