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Featured Why do we need priests?

Discussion in 'The Church Forum' started by Pearl, Aug 31, 2019.

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  1. Reggie Belafonte

    Reggie Belafonte Well-Known Member

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    Do we need Sheppard's ? anyone who says we don't is of Satan for sure.
     
  2. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    Try to be logical. If the president gets impeached, that is covered by the Constitution, so what are you talking about?

    Trying to draw a parallel between marriage is not appropriate since the two are not passing on the sacrament to anyone else. There is no such thing as "matrimonial succession", is there?
    Why the unpleasant tone? You having a bad hair day? My question is if a bishop goes bad, what about the priests he's ordained?

    Catechism of the Catholic Church - The sacrament of Holy Orders

    556 To fulfill their exalted mission, "the apostles were endowed by Christ with a special outpouring of the Holy Spirit coming upon them, and by the imposition of hands they passed on to their auxiliaries the gift of the Spirit, which is transmitted down to our day through episcopal consecration."

    1557 The Second Vatican Council "teaches . . . that the fullness of the sacrament of Holy Orders is conferred by episcopal consecration, that fullness namely which, both in the liturgical tradition of the Church and the language of the Fathers of the Church, is called the high priesthood, the acme (summa) of the sacred ministry."

    1558 "Episcopal consecration confers, together with the office of sanctifying, also the offices of teaching and ruling. . . . In fact . . . by the imposition of hands and through the words of the consecration, the grace of the Holy Spirit is given, and a sacred character is impressed in such wise that bishops, in an eminent and visible manner, take the place of Christ himself, teacher, shepherd, and priest, and act as his representative (in Eius persona agant)." "By virtue, therefore, of the Holy Spirit who has been given to them, bishops have been constituted true and authentic teachers of the faith and have been made pontiffs and pastors."

    I know that some bishops are forbidden to do any more ordinations and the Vatican has declared some priests' ordinations null and void. I would think they would not have the ability to pass on the "special outpouring of the Holy Spirit" by the laying on of hands. I doubt they would retain the Holy Spirit myself. That makes sense; but what about sly bishops who lose the Holy Spirit without being discovered?
     
  3. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    Don't you yet know that every "born again christian" is a priest and king unto the Lord for His purposes?
    2 Cor. 3[6] Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
    Rev. 1[6] And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
    > The word "hath" is in the present tense, as in NOW, ever since Pentecost.
     
  4. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    And this:
    2 Cor. 5[20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
     
  5. epostle

    epostle Well-Known Member

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    2 Cor. 5[20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

    as though God did beseech you by us lends itself to the notion of apostolic succession. "us" can only mean the Apostles, and the "you" is in reference to those trained as bishops by "us". 2 Cor. 5:18 Nowhere in scripture does the common priesthood have the ministry of reconciliation. That function belongs to the ministerial priesthood. Anointing of the Sick is another function belonging to the ministerial priesthood. It means the same thing as "elder".

    The Latin phrase: "Alter Christus" means the same thing as we pray you in Christ's stead; a title reserved for the ministerial priesthood. We are all priests but we don't have the same ministerial functions as a highly trained bishop, and by extension, the Office of the Ministerial Priesthood.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
  6. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    The royal priesthood is not made up of those "highly trained", but of those of the birthright of the spirit of God. This too was the error of Korah.
     
  7. Pearl

    Pearl Well-Known Member

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    Quite so! I seems you may not have read my opening question correctly.
     
  8. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    Ooopps! Sorry about that!☺️
     
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  9. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    So that the pedophiles in Hollywood and Washington don't get lonely.
     
  10. Pearl

    Pearl Well-Known Member

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    :cool:
     
  11. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    The Protestant objection to human intercession is based largely on a single line of Scripture that says, “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus…” (1 Tim. 2:5).

    However, we also read in the Bible that we are called upon to intercede in prayer for one another (1 Cor. 3:9, 1 Tim. 2:1-3, Eph 6:18, James 5:16, 1 John 5:16). Whereas, Jesus is our only mediator because only His blood is the perfect sacrifice before the Father for our sins, our intercession for one another is commanded in the Scriptures.

    In the Old Testament, there were three levels of Priests:
    - The High Priest
    - The Levitical/Ministerial Priesthood
    - The rest of the people were a general priesthood of believers.

    In the New Testament, there are also three levels of Priests:
    - Jesus, our High Priest (1 Tim. 2:5, Heb. 7:22-25)
    - The Ministerial Priests (James 5:14-15)
    - The general priesthood of all Christians (1 Peter 2:5-9).

    Just as with all New Testament fulfillments, the fulfillment is always more glorious than the Old Testament type.

    Finally, in the Epistle of Jude, we read the warning about those who would usurp Church Authority by assuming the ministerial priesthood without the Church’s consent (Jude 1:11). In this passage he compares them to the rebellion of Korah and their subsequent punishment (Numbers 16:1-35; 31:16).

    We are ALL priests - but we are NOT all ministerial priests (James 5:14-15).
     
  12. marksman

    marksman My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her

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    The priest thing is a throwback to the Roman Catholic Church. We have to bear in mind that most ordinary people could not read whereas the priest could he was their interpreter of all things spiritual. So in that respect, he was very much needed.

    When the bible was printed in volume, the priest was still needed because again the average person could not read. As time went by and people did begin to learn to read the RC church had a problem because people started to find out that what they were taught was not what the scripture taught.

    It took Martin Luther, an RC priest to put his foot in the works and challenge the Church with his 95 theses, posted on the door of the cathedral at Wittenburg.

    The Reformation which was supposed to challenge the authority of the RC church, but didn't, ended up as bringing about just another version of Roman Catholicism. You will note that the reformed church still had a priest but was known as a pastor; it still had mass but was known as the Lords Table or Communion; it still had ornate buildings in many denominations; it got rid of the Pope but installed a General Superintendent or some such similar entity; they replaced all the regalia and put in place a simpler form of ritual. Although they got rid of the Pope, they replaced him and his authority with the rules of the denomination which in many cases deny the authority of scripture, which is what roman catholicism did.

    If I wanted any evidence of the church being Roman Catholic lite it was when I was a housemaster at a secular boarding school. At the age of 13, every boy was taken to the local Anglican Church and confirmed, even if he was the worst rogue on the planet.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2020
  13. marksman

    marksman My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her

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    And have you noticed the curtain was torn from TOP to BOTTOM? When we tear anything we tear it from bottom to top. A clear sign that God was at work to open the door to himself.
     
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  14. marksman

    marksman My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her

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    Like so many churches, the RC church believes that if they say something then it must be. Whether it is or not is not relevant to them. They are the final authority so what they say has to be believed and accepted. I worked in a catholic school for some time and asked a few pertinent questions of the catholic teachers there. I asked one, what does blood taste like? He said it tasted like wine. I told him I thought someone was having a lend of him. According to him, that was the way things were because the church said so.

    In another situation, I worked with a devout catholic who always went to mass before he came to work. I asked why and he said because it meant he had a better chance to escape purgatory and go to heaven. In other words, he was accruing brownie points towards his salvation. Why did he do this? Because that is what the church said.
     
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  15. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    so he was superstitious about going to Mass - because the Church doesn’t teach that going to daily Mass gets you out of Purgatory. Perhaps he was actually talking about his spiritual growth which involved daily Mass.
     
  16. Pearl

    Pearl Well-Known Member

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    Religion cripples people. A relationship with Jesus sets us free.
     
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  17. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Perfect, and simple answer Pat. So many thinks their "works" will bring them salvation...sad.
     
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  18. marksman

    marksman My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her

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    If that is what he was talking about, then that is what I would have said as being autistic, I am not into spinning yarns. All I have done is told you what he told me and as you were not there you cannot dispute what I have said much as you would like to.

    In fact, all you have done is what he has done according to you and made an assumption that is not true. As I have been told this by many Catholics, there is no smoke without fire. But of course, according to you, they are all wrong.
     
  19. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    What also "cripples" people are false accusations . . .
     
  20. marksman

    marksman My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her

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    Why don't you expose the lie that the wine turns into blood at the mass?
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020
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