Why do we need priests?

[BreadOfLife]

"The Apostles are the Apostles and are not considered to be the "Early Church Fathers."
> Says who? THe RCC? How convienent, because they only want to see Peter, and therefore will fabricate it to be so, just so as to establish the progression to the first pope.

So now you are speaking contrary to how the apostles spoke and wrote to the early churches, calling them "little children"?
Men speaking to men, in that manner, does not reveal brotherhood in Christ, but rather fatherhood, who is God speaking through the apostles to the early churches.

I know of those who came after the apostles, so don't count me as ignorant, just because I don't refer to them and their writings.

As for your religious outline of when the early churches and ECFs were, you have skipped alot of detail, only to acknowledge one thing, and that is what the RCC wants to recognize, for the sake of man's ordination of the succession of Popes after Peter.

What God says about the early churches through the apostles, is His inspired words. Anything written by the "Apostolic Fathers" of your description, is not inspired, even though you might want to think that it is.

Says virtually EVERY reputable Biblical scholar - Catholic AND Protestant.

Your asinine position that it was "okay" for the Apostles to call themselves "Father" to their congregations - but NOBODY else could do that - is the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard on the subject.

 

[Earburner]

And THAT'S why we have tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant sects that ALL teach different doctrines - while ALL claiming to have been "led" by the Holy Spirit.

What a mess . . .

"No one single church has all of His truth, but all of the churches have some of His truth."- Earburner

I don't think that you see or understand the simplicity of the Lord's salvation for ALL people.
2 Peter 3:9
John 3:18
Romans 8:8-9
1 John 5:13

 

[Earburner]

Now of a truth, anything that is peripheral to "the work of God", of our having faith in Jesus, as being our only means of salvation, it is secondary!
John 6:29
For if a man is NOT born again by His Holy Spirit, he remains to be "none of His".

 

[Earburner]

Says virtually EVERY reputable Biblical scholar - Catholic AND Protestant.

Your asinine position that it was "okay" for the Apostles to call themselves "Father" to their congregations - but NOBODY else could do that - is the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard on the subject.

What God says about the early churches through the apostles, is His inspired words.

Anything written by the "Apostolic Fathers" of your description, is not inspired, even though you might want to think that it is.

 

[BreadOfLife]

"No one single church has all of His truth, but all of the churches have some of His truth."- Earburner

I don't think that you see or understand the simplicity of the Lord's salvation for ALL people.
2 Peter 3:9
John 3:18
Romans 8:8-9
1 John 5:13

Thanks for your flawed philosophy.

Now, read what CHRIST said about His Church:
John 16:12-15
“I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to ALL truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to YOU the things that are coming.
He will glorify me, because he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.
Everything that the Father has is MINE; for this reason I told you that he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.

The Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).
I don't think YOU understand what His Church is . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

What God says about the early churches through the apostles, is His inspired words.

Anything written by the "Apostolic Fathers" of your description, is not inspired, even though you might want to think that it is.

And nobody is claiming that the ECFs were inspired.
As a matter of fact - YOU brought them up.

I was showing YOU that Paul and Stephen called used the words "Father" and "Teacher" to describe men OTHER than God because you ignorantly claimed that Christ forbade this.

 

[Earburner]

And nobody is claiming that the ECFs were inspired.
As a matter of fact - YOU brought them up.

I was showing YOU that Paul and Stephen called used the words "Father" and "Teacher" to describe men OTHER than God because you ignorantly claimed that Christ forbade this.

No! I called the inspired 12 apostles "the early church fathers", because it was God the Father who was speaking through them. Hence the epistles they wrote to the early churches, were inspired by God the Father, being signified by words such as
"little children"/"children"/"my children"
After the 12 apostles, there ARE NO inspired writings by God of others.

 

[marksman]

Ahhhhh, more ignorant nonsense. from the BOTH of you.

I have already proven this claim wrong several posts
back - and a few times since.

- Jesus said, “Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” (John 8:56).
- Stephen refers to "our FATHER Abraham," (Acts 7:2).
- Paul speaks of "our FATHER Isaac” (Romans 9:10).
- For I became your FATHER in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15).

- "For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle . . . a TEACHER of the Gentiles in faith and truth" (1 Tim. 2:7).
- "For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and TEACHER" (2 Tim. 1:11).
- "God has appointed in the church first Apostles, second prophets, third TEACHERS" (1 Cor. 12:28).

So, don't tell me that we can't call people "Teacher" or "Father". Jesus forbade these terms for those who place themselves ABOVE our Father and Teacher in Heaven.
In CONTEXT - He was talking about the Scribes and Pharisees who exalt themselves..

Don't you guys ever actually READ the Scriptures??

I will ignore your usual insults and say once again. I have never once mentioned anyone being called a teacher. Not once so what is your beef?

I never once mentioned Abraham, Issac, or Jesus being called father. Not once so what is your beef?

So to coin your phrase, more ignorant nonsense from you. The subject matter is and always was that we are told to call no man father. Note NO MAN. A priest is a man so do not call him father.

Matthew 23:9 Don't call anyone on earth your father. All of you have the same Father in heaven.

What don't you understand about that instruction? Does the Catholic Bible say don't call anyone on earth father except your local priest?

 

[marksman]

Hi,

If two Baptist are gathered in His name and two Lutherens are gathered in His name and they both come to a different interpretation about the same passage from Scripture.....which two are right?Curious Mary

Until the ones that are wrong are shown to be wrong they are both right.

 

[marksman]

And THAT'S why we have tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant sects that ALL teach different doctrines - while ALL claiming to have been "led" by the Holy Spirit.

What a mess . . .

That is the way you see it. However, if you care to look at the doctrines they teach the majority have the same doctrines, they just may express them differently.
Better than one denomination i.e catholic church which has more doctrines of their choosing than any other denomination. I would put you on par with the Mormons.

 

[Illuminator]

Only a total IDIOT, a brainless MORON, thinks we call priests "God" when we call them "father". It's a whole new level of STUPID.

 

[Illuminator]

That is the way you see it. However, if you care to look at the doctrines they teach the majority have the same doctrines, they just may express them differently.
Better than one denomination i.e catholic church which has more doctrines of their choosing than any other denomination. I would put you on par with the Mormons.

The CC does not choose doctrines. That silly remark proves you have changed it's meaning to fit your preconceptions so you come up with ridiculous conclusions.
Doctrine, Doctrine, Doctrine - Catholic Stand

 

[Pearl]

Only a total IDIOT, a brainless MORON, thinks we call priests "God" when we call them "father". It's a whole new level of STUPID.

But scripture tells us not to call anyone Father.

Matthew 23:9
And do not call anyone on earth “father”, for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

 

[Pearl]

The CC does not choose doctrines. That silly remark proves you have changed it's meaning to fit your preconceptions so you come up with ridiculous conclusions.
Doctrine, Doctrine, Doctrine - Catholic Stand

Until around 300 AD the early Christians met in homes and had no sacred buildings, sacred persons, sacred objects or fancy dress or candles or incense etc. Then Constantine added Christianity to his pagan beliefs and everything changed. The Catholic church was born out of Constantine's pagan practices.

But I'm sure you won't investigate that.

 

[Earburner]

Thanks for your flawed philosophy.

Now, read what CHRIST said about His Church:
John 16:12-15
“I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to ALL truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to YOU the things that are coming.
He will glorify me, because he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.
Everything that the Father has is MINE; for this reason I told you that he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.

The Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).
I don't think YOU understand what His Church is . . .

All Born Again Christians are "the called out ones", whether they attend the Catholic or Protestant religions. BACs are the TRUE universal church!

 

[marksman]

The CC does not choose doctrines. That silly remark proves you have changed it's meaning to fit your preconceptions so you come up with ridiculous conclusions.
Doctrine, Doctrine, Doctrine - Catholic Stand

FACT FILE: Every church chooses doctrines. That is what makes them a church.

 

[marksman]

Only a total IDIOT, a brainless MORON, thinks we call priests "God" when we call them "father". It's a whole new level of STUPID.

Oh well, that rules me out.

 

[aspen]

Because we need something to complain about and blame?

 

[BreadOfLife]

No! I called the inspired 12 apostles "the early church fathers", because it was God the Father who was speaking through them. Hence the epistles they wrote to the early churches, were inspired by God the Father, being signified by words such as
"little children"/"children"/"my children"
After the 12 apostles, there ARE NO inspired writings by God of others.

And once again - you;re moving the goal posts because you've LOST the "Father" and "Teacher" argument.
I never made the argument that the ECFs were inspired. I merely showed you the error of your interpretation of Matt. 23:8-9.

As I've educated you from Scripture at LEAST a half-dozen times now - Christ's prohibition was against considering people "Father" and "Teacher" ABOVE our Father and Teacher in Heaven.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I will ignore your usual insults and say once again. I have never once mentioned anyone being called a teacher. Not once so what is your beef?
I never once mentioned Abraham, Issac, or Jesus being called father. Not once so what is your beef?

So to coin your phrase, more ignorant nonsense from you. The subject matter is and always was that we are told to call no man father. Note NO MAN. A priest is a man so do not call him father.

Matthew 23:9 Don't call anyone on earth your father. All of you have the same Father in heaven.

What don't you understand about that instruction? Does the Catholic Bible say don't call anyone on earth father except your local priest?

It's obvious that you ignored my entire post because you're making the SAME moronic, anti-Biblical claim about Matt. 23:9.
As I educated you before - the following verses prove you WRONG:

- Jesus said, “Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” (John 8:56).
- Stephen refers to "our FATHER Abraham," (Acts 7:2).
- Paul speaks of "our FATHER Isaac” (Romans 9:10).
- For I became your FATHER in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15).

- "For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle . . . a TEACHER of the Gentiles in faith and truth" (1 Tim. 2:7).
- "For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and TEACHER" (2 Tim. 1:11).
- "God has appointed in the church first Apostles, second prophets, third TEACHERS" (1 Cor. 12:28).