Why do you believe the Bible is 100% inspired?

[Taken]

I understand this is how you think you are saved. There are many Christians that would disagree. Why are you right and they are wrong?

Why are you claiming for me, some "unidentified they" are wrong?

You said:

Every Historical (since Jesus' appearence ON Earth) and Modern "Christian" Church is in agreement; Salvation is Offered, and Given, By and Through Christ Jesus to Individuals.

Assembly of God doctrine says you need to have repentance.
Catholic Doctrine requires baptism and works.
Church of Christ requires repentance and baptism.
John MacArthur and many non denominational churches require Lordship Salvation. This requires submission (works) along with belief.
Mormons would agree with your statement but they also require keeping gods commands.

These 4 examples may agree with your generic salvation statement above, but they don't agree on how we are saved beyond that.[/QUOTE]

My statement was not generic, but BASIC, as I stated.

Already stated, Individual Churches have their OWN devised doctrines, and people who agree with those doctrines can certain join with that particular Church.

Already mentioned Baptism, when I mentioned the Holy Spirit within an individual.

Submission is not works, it's a freewill election.

You can veribly repent and be sorry for having had disbelief....or not. Example, Thief hanging next to Jesus, who spoke NINE words to the Lord Jesus, and was Saved.

So, People disagree on Church specific doctrines and teaching?

None, that you have presented are teaching rejection of the BASICS tenants...
Belief in and submission to thee Lord God and His Word, just as I said.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Well maybe you should support your claim then. You must mean something different than historical communism. We have a massive amount of privately owned property in the US.

Not the topic or appropriate for this OP.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[ScottA]

This is the same as saying I don't know, so just say that.

No...that would only be true if I did not explain. But I did explain.

This is your theology. I can go find many different theologies of Christianity and they will claim they are correct based on the same things you base your theology on. I am not asking how to be saved, I am asking why no one know how we are saved?

No..."theology" is theory. What I just explained is not theory.

But you have a prejudice. You "believe" that just because there is a great amount of untruth in the world, that the truth is just another "different" theory or belief. It's not. It's the truth, and you not knowing which is which, speaks of your own shortcomings...not what I have told you of the truth. Your whole position is that you don't know...and it is true - you don't know.

Nonetheless, I have told you the truth.

All of which is just fine. In the end, you will get just what you have decided upon. Meanwhile, if you really want to know the truth, it is available...but you are going to need to change your attitude.

 

[ScottA]

I understand this is how you think you are saved. There are many Christians that would disagree. Why are you right and they are wrong?

This seems to be the pet issue of many atheists. But for you it is a cop out, because you have heard the answer. But for the sake of others I will elaborate:

If you ask the same question of 100 different people who witnessed the same event, you [know] you will get 100 different answers. The variables do not change the actual truth, they are simply an indication of may different perspectives...which, as it has been explained to you, should be considered normal and completely okay coming from the members of one body.

But that is elementary.

What you are missing (again), is that God does not operate on your level of logic and comprehension. Nonetheless, though your attitude does not deserve an explanation, I will explain: The truth, whether it is about salvation or any other topic, is revealed by God, by design, "through a glass dimly." Do you understand this? Apparently not. It means that the plan of revealing information about the truth, is purposely limited. Why? To be fair. By this means, no generation has any advantage over another. Fair. So, if you think you are living in an age of enlightenment, or that the dark ages have past, you are mistaken. The fact is, and you make a perfect example - you are just as confused about God as any in all of history.

Meanwhile, just as every generation has had its ration of darkness, it has also had its ration of truth. And just like them...here you are refusing it and giving all of the same excuses. Fools rush in. You should have weighed the facts of history, sat back and said to yourself, "It's here, I just need to find it." Or...conclude that life has no real greater meaning...and just forget about it.

But here you are beating what you consider to be a dead horse.

You need to do some soul searching.

 

[Helen]

Very well explained @ScottA
I have copied that to file.

 

[Vince]

None, that you have presented are teaching rejection of the BASICS tenants...
Belief in and submission to thee Lord God and His Word, just as I said.

This does not address the issue that there are contradictory salvation doctrines. What you have presented in a BASIC belief that all may have but the more detailed belief on salvation is different for different Christians. Some believe all are save and nothing needs to be done. I can describe three cars as having 4 wheels, glass windows and a battery, but when more detail is shown they are different models, colors, controls, etc. that contradict each other. So if you need to be a green car to be saved the other two description won't help you even though they are true.

 

[Vince]

Not the topic or appropriate for this OP.

Glory to God,
Taken

I didn't bring it up, you did.

 

[Vince]

No...that would only be true if I did not explain. But I did explain.
No..."theology" is theory. What I just explained is not theory.

Ok, I will use the term doctrine.

But you have a prejudice. You "believe" that just because there is a great amount of untruth in the world, that the truth is just another "different" theory or belief.

I do not believe this.

It's not. It's the truth, and you not knowing which is which, speaks of your own shortcomings...not what I have told you of the truth. Your whole position is that you don't know...and it is true - you don't know.

You have told me what you believe to be true but not supported it with sufficient evidence. Many others have told me the truth as well and it contradicts your truth. The only way I can determine who is right is by evidence.

Nonetheless, I have told you the truth.

Sorry if I won't take your word for it without any support.

All of which is just fine. In the end, you will get just what you have decided upon. Meanwhile, if you really want to know the truth, it is available...but you are going to need to change your attitude.

I know you want me to stop asking questions and just believe without evidence. That is a Christian virtue.

 

[Vince]

This seems to be the pet issue of many atheists. But for you it is a cop out, because you have heard the answer. But for the sake of others I will elaborate:

I have heard your answer but I have no reason to believe it is true. You seem to expect people to believe anything you say just because you believe it to be true.

If you ask the same question of 100 different people who witnessed the same event, you [know] you will get 100 different answers. The variables do not change the actual truth, they are simply an indication of may different perspectives...which, as it has been explained to you, should be considered normal and completely okay coming from the members of one body.

But that is elementary.

What you are missing (again), is that God does not operate on your level of logic and comprehension. Nonetheless, though your attitude does not deserve an explanation,[/quote]Yes questions are not tolerated long with Christians.

I will explain: The truth, whether it is about salvation or any other topic, is revealed by God, by design, "through a glass dimly." Do you understand this? Apparently not. It means that the plan of revealing information about the truth, is purposely limited. Why? To be fair. By this means, no generation has any advantage over another. Fair. So, if you think you are living in an age of enlightenment, or that the dark ages have past, you are mistaken. The fact is, and you make a perfect example - you are just as confused about God as any in all of history.

Yes because they had no coherent message of salvation either.

Meanwhile, just as every generation has had its ration of darkness, it has also had its ration of truth. And just like them...here you are refusing it and giving all of the same excuses. Fools rush in. You should have weighed the facts of history, sat back and said to yourself, "It's here, I just need to find it." Or...conclude that life has no real greater meaning...and just forget about it.

What truth am I supposed to believe? Christians claim they have the "real" truth such as yourself but they all contradict each other. God being clear on how we are saved does not affect a persons choice to believe it. This whole dim, darkness nonsense does not help anyone to the real truth. The same problem exists, that Christians all over the world contradict each other on salvation. Does god enjoy the confusion and relish that some are confused and that will cause them to be lost?

You need to do some soul searching.

That is good advice for anyone, including yourself.

 

[Taken]

I didn't bring it up, you did.

I mentioned it, without intent to deflect from the OP.

Taken

 

[ScottA]

Ok, I will use the term doctrine.

I do not believe this.

You have told me what you believe to be true but not supported it with sufficient evidence. Many others have told me the truth as well and it contradicts your truth. The only way I can determine who is right is by evidence.

Sorry if I won't take your word for it without any support.

I know you want me to stop asking questions and just believe without evidence. That is a Christian virtue.

"Doctrine" is wrong too. The point is, you are lumping all claims into the same category, not because there is not enough evidence, but because you have made your own terms for God like a tail expecting to way the dog. Those are self-imposed limitations. You are cheating yourself.

And you are not listening. I have told you that what I have shared, is not theory or belief, but knowledge, the very thing you seek. Yet you turn away the good with the bad...even though I have answered everything with explanation. If something is missing, I invite you to restate it. But do not expect me or God to agree to your terms. That would be you missing the point...that would be you refusing a very important answer from God. You may get false religions to jump to your terms, but God will not. The answer is yes from them, and NO from God. You should have perceived the difference.

Learn to know the difference. It is not me who wants you to take my word, but God who wants you to take His. So far, you have failed, while He has succeeded. Look into the mirror or into the grave, but it is you who needs to change, not God, and not me.

 

[Taken]

This does not address the issue that there are contradictory salvation doctrines. What you have presented in a BASIC belief that all may have but the more detailed belief on salvation is different for different Christians. Some believe all are save and nothing needs to be done. I can describe three cars as having 4 wheels, glass windows and a battery, but when more detail is shown they are different models, colors, controls, etc. that contradict each other. So if you need to be a green car to be saved the other two description won't help you even though they are true.

First of all YOU have to decide if you are a Jew, remaining Under the Law, and waiting for the gift of Salvation at the END of their natural Life...

Or a person who Accepts Jesus' Offering of Salvation, while Still ALIVE in your Natural flesh.

You have not provided ONE Christian Denomination that REJECTS Salvation is Offered BY and THROUGH belief and submission TO THEE Lord Jesus.

You have presented Individual Dominations "teachings" according TO THEIR DOCTRINES, what "ADDITIONALLY" they believe and teach "IS ALSO REQUIRED".

YOU as have I the ability to hear, read, learn what the Scripture teaches.

YOU as have I the ability to Believe what you hear and read what the Scripture says.

YOU as have I the ability to BELEIVE any Churches "DOCTRINE" "in accordance WITH Scriptureal Doctrine or "above" what is Scriptural Doctrine.

You wanted to know "how to BECOME Saved".

Jesus' Doctrine is SIMPLE..
Salvation hinges on BELIEF. Belief BOTH in thee Heavenly God AND Christ Jesus AND Truthfully Confess THAT Belief. <--- THAT SIMPLE.

Thereafter; The "ACT" of "CONVERSION";
Is ALL a "SPIRITUAL ACTION" of thee Lord God.... Baptism of the Holy Spirit, Saving of the soul, Quickening of the spirit, Turning from sin, Righteousness, and on and on...

IS NOT HOW one "BECOMES" Saved, but IS RATHER THE "RESULT" of one having BECOME SAVED....

Point being; A Church teaching ONE must BE baptized, turn from sin, repent, believe, etc...
IS NOT an ACT a man CAN ACCOMPLISH...

Those are ACTS of the Lord God; AFTER the man Truthfully Believes IN God, IN Christ Jesus, and Confess THAT belief.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[ScottA]

I have heard your answer but I have no reason to believe it is true. You seem to expect people to believe anything you say just because you believe it to be true.

Yes questions are not tolerated long with Christians.

Yes because they had no coherent message of salvation either.

What truth am I supposed to believe? Christians claim they have the "real" truth such as yourself but they all contradict each other. God being clear on how we are saved does not affect a persons choice to believe it. This whole dim, darkness nonsense does not help anyone to the real truth. The same problem exists, that Christians all over the world contradict each other on salvation. Does god enjoy the confusion and relish that some are confused and that will cause them to be lost?

That is good advice for anyone, including yourself.

1. I have never told you what I "believe." You had questions. I gave you the facts from God. If you have not figured out His M.O., that's it: Individuals of His choosing declare the truth when it is given.
2. No, it is disrespect, and rejection, that is "not tolerated long." We don't need it or want it. We are here to help, and your attitude is terrible.
3. What you call "no coherent message of salvation" is the mystery of God revealed His way...not yours. You are acting like a spoiled brat.
4. As for seemingly contradiction, I have explained the 100 person example, and the different members of one body having their own unique perspectives and words. I have also explained the fairness of God to deliver the whole truth dimly over time. If you have a problem with that, it is your problem, not God's. It is brilliant...and fair, to say nothing of just and more than deserving of those who turned away from Him before they were even born into the world. What you call "nonsense" is your second chance, and a lifeline. You want to refuse it? So be it. But to be fair, if you were drowning and in the dark - you would not be doing what you are doing now...that is, unless you did not want to be saved. So...you either have no clue...or you are being foolish.

...Reach out in the darkness and grab on to what feels best. If you grab something suspect, let it go. But if you do not know what line has been thrown to you...knowing, starts by listening. Plugging your ears with rejection will accomplish nothing.

 

[Vince]

1. I have never told you what I "believe." You had questions. I gave you the facts from God. If you have not figured out His M.O., that's it: Individuals of His choosing declare the truth when it is given.

So what you write here is not necessarily what you believe?

No, it is disrespect, and rejection, that is "not tolerated long." We don't need it or want it. We are here to help, and your attitude is terrible.

How so? How have I disrespected anyone here? And you seem to tolerate Strangers behavior?

What you call "no coherent message of salvation" is the mystery of God revealed His way...not yours. You are acting like a spoiled brat.

And you call me disrespectful. I have never called anyone here names like you and others have called me. You have this idea that if someone questions you that they must be throwing a tantrum or something. Why don't you tolerate questions?

As for seemingly contradiction, I have explained the 100 person example, and the different members of one body having their own unique perspectives and words. I have also explained the fairness of God to deliver the whole truth dimly over time. If you have a problem with that, it is your problem, not God's. It is brilliant...and fair, to say nothing of just and more than deserving of those who turned away from Him before they were even born into the world. What you call "nonsense" is your second chance, and a lifeline. You want to refuse it? So be it. But to be fair, if you were drowning and in the dark - you would not be doing what you are doing now...that is, unless you did not want to be saved. So...you either have no clue...or you are being foolish.

It is not seemingly contradictory that one requires repentance for salvation and another requires works, another requires nothing and yet another requires to follow gods command to be saved. These are in direct conflict.

...Reach out in the darkness and grab on to what feels best. If you grab something suspect, let it go. But if you do not know what line has been thrown to you...knowing, starts by listening. Plugging your ears with rejection will accomplish nothing.

Metaphysical nonsense.

 

[ScottA]

So what you write here is not necessarily what you believe?

How so? How have I disrespected anyone here?

And you seem to tolerate Strangers behavior?And you call me disrespectful. I have never called anyone here names like you and others have called me. You have this idea that if someone questions you that they must be throwing a tantrum or something. Why don't you tolerate questions?

It is not seemingly contradictory that one requires repentance for salvation and another requires works, another requires nothing and yet another requires to follow gods command to be saved. These are in direct conflict.

Metaphysical nonsense.

1. Exactly. What I have been telling you, I do not "believe", but know for a fact.
2. You have refused the hand of help with a conditional attitude not becoming of someone in need. Do you really think that refusing God on his own terms, is not an offense? It is.
3. Again...I am not not tolerating questions. I am not tolerating your insolence. I have offered you life, and by your own distrust for all the death also being offered in the world, you snub the actual truth also.
4. Again...the conflict is in you. Receive what is good. Reject the rest. But if you expect the truth to be warm and fuzzy, it will be, but only after you wake up to the truth and get over the fact that you have been wrong. What is right will appear to be offensive at first. Nonetheless, if you categorically refuse all lifesaving offers, you will perish.

 

[Nancy]

My humble (now the enemy just tried to make me proud of my humility in CHRIST, lol...did not work ) answer to the OP:
Because His word has proven true to a T in my own life more than I can write on here, for sure!
"But when you ask him, be sure that your faith is in God alone. Do not waver, for a person with divided loyalty is as unsettled as a wave of the sea that is blown and tossed by the wind. Such people should not expect to receive anything from the Lord." James 1:6,7.
We cannot please Him without "faith". So...again with the "if's", lol. If you obey me, if you will Humble yourselves, IF you follow me...

"2 My son, IF you receive my words, And treasure my commands within you,
IF you seek her as silver,
And search for her as for hidden treasures;
Then you will understand the fear of the Lord,
And find the knowledge of God."
For the Lord gives wisdom;

"9 that IF you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." Rom 10:9

So, to me, it all about faith. ♥♥♥

 

[Jun2u]

[QUOTE="Vince, post: 532884, member: 8114"]I bet if I came up with a church that believes in another salvation theology you would just claim they are not really christian.[/QUOTE]

I am a child of God, and yet I tend to agree with what you've uttered above seeing there are about 4100 different denominations in the world.

Scripture declares a good tree cannot produce bad fruits, nor can a bad tree produce good fruits.

Salvation is a personal thing between God and an individual. NOT between God and a particular church. These are all those which the Father draws (John 6:44), and given to Jesus (John 6:37). The Father elects and names those whom He planned for salvation, Jesus redeems their sins, and the Holy Spirit seals their salvation.

If read and understood correctly, these verses are the ONLY criteria by which a man can become saved.

Therefore, your statement above is valid and warranted, but only in the sense to what you have alluded there.

But one thing I must emphasize. Atheists say there is no God. Without realizing it they must first believe there IS a God in order for them to disprove there is no God!!

To God Be The Glory

 

[Vince]

[QUOTE="Vince, post: 532884, member: 8114"]I bet if I came up with a church that believes in another salvation theology you would just claim they are not really christian.

I am a child of God, and yet I tend to agree with what you've uttered above seeing there are about 4100 different denominations in the world.

Scripture declares a good tree cannot produce bad fruits, nor can a bad tree produce good fruits.

Salvation is a personal thing between God and an individual. NOT between God and a particular church. These are all those which the Father draws (John 6:44), and given to Jesus (John 6:37). The Father elects and names those whom He planned for salvation, Jesus redeems their sins, and the Holy Spirit seals their salvation.

If read and understood correctly, these verses are the ONLY criteria by which a man can become saved.

Therefore, your statement above is valid and warranted, but only in the sense to what you have alluded there.

Are you saying that there is more than one way to be saved?

But one thing I must emphasize. Atheists say there is no God. Without realizing it they must first believe there IS a God in order for them to disprove there is no God!!

This is untrue, at least for me and many atheists. I do not claim that god does not exist. I claim that there is not enough evidence to warrant a belief that he does. Atheism is defined as a lack of belief in a god. I believe there is no god, just like I believe (and probably you believe) there are no pixies, because there is insufficient evidence. I am not claiming pixies do not exist.

 

[Jun2u]

Are you saying that there is more than one way to be saved?

Now I see why you are confused. You can’t even comprehend dialogues let alone understand the things of God.

No, John 6:44 and John 6:37 is the only way anyone can become saved as I have indicated. If you take one or the other verse from each other, the process of salvation is not complete. It takes for the Father’s electing, choosing, naming, and giving them to Christ for redemption of their sins. Then the Holy Spirit seals that salvation. All three distinct persons of the Godhead are involved in the salvation of an individual.

This is untrue, at least for me and many atheists. I do not claim that god does not exist. I claim that there is not enough evidence to warrant a belief that he does

Therefore, you claim to be a negative atheist or an agnostic. And, by all definition you are still an atheist and an atheist (whether negative or positive) do not believe there is a God.

How do you explain the natural wonders that are seen in the world, like a seed planted in the ground and then grows into the most beautiful flower? Don’t you believe there must be an Intelligent Being to design and create it?

Likewise, here is a beautiful house or a beautiful table. Wouldn’t you believe there must be a designer or a creator to build them?

[QUOTE="Vince, post: 536038, member: 8114"]Atheism is defined as a lack of belief in a god. I believe there is no god[/QUOTE]

Above, you said you do not claim that God does not exist, yet you’ve just declared you believe there is no God. Which is it? Are you confused?

Underlined words are mine.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Vince]

Now I see why you are confused. You can’t even comprehend dialogues let alone understand the things of God.

This seems pretty typical here. When someone asks for clarification of your response, which is reasonable in a mature conversation, you give me an insult? Why?

No, John 6:44 and John 6:37 is the only way anyone can become saved as I have indicated. If you take one or the other verse from each other, the process of salvation is not complete. It takes for the Father’s electing, choosing, naming, and giving them to Christ for redemption of their sins. Then the Holy Spirit seals that salvation. All three distinct persons of the Godhead are involved in the salvation of an individual.

Ok, but why should I believe you over another Christian that has a different process?

Therefore, you claim to be a negative atheist or an agnostic. And, by all definition you are still an atheist and an atheist (whether negative or positive) do not believe there is a God.

This is not true as I have shown. You are ignorant of the definition of an atheist. One definition is that they claim god does not exist, I don't agree with that. Another definition is a lack of belief in a god. Which I describe myself as. An agnostic says whether god exists or not doesn't matter because he is unknowable. I don't ascribe to that because I believe if a god exists he could be knowable.

How do you explain the natural wonders that are seen in the world, like a seed planted in the ground and then grows into the most beautiful flower? Don’t you believe there must be an Intelligent Being to design and create it?

Why? I don't understand how that happened, but it is a fallacy to say because we don't know it must be a god behind it. It could be a natural process or it could be supernatural. Where is the evidence of either.

Likewise, here is a beautiful house or a beautiful table. Wouldn’t you believe there must be a designer or a creator to build them?

Yes because I have never seen a table without someone designing it or creating it. Also, it is easy to determine who designed and made that table. There is sufficient evidence to believe the table was created by someone.

[QUOTE="Vince, post: 536038, member: 8114"]Atheism is defined as a lack of belief in a god. I believe there is no god

Above, you said you do not claim that God does not exist, yet you’ve just declared you believe there is no God. Which is it? Are you confused?

Underlined words are mine.

Here is my entire quote:

Atheism is defined as a lack of belief in a god. I believe there is no god, just like I believe (and probably you believe) there are no pixies, because there is insufficient evidence. I am not claiming pixies do not exist.

So no, I never claimed god does not exist.