Why do you feel it is so hard to be good?

[marks]

<<<From what has been taught in the scripture you cannot have faith without love.>>>

Faith is not love and love is not faith. The two are not the same.

In my view, one could have faith without love, not to say that that is good. But that, there is such a situation. For one could believe in God yet have not love. Though that should not be how it should be the Christian. For Paul said “though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.”

In my view, one could not have love for God without faith, that is, without believing in Him, at least that He exist; and without knowledge of Him and without knowing Him.

Tong
R4424

Faith is before everything. First one must believe God exists, and rewards those who seek Him. Once we meet Him, then we find love.

Much love!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

No, they are speaking differently. The difference is, justified to whom? God knows whether faith is real, and whether or not He rendered you righteous. This is being justified by God, make righteous.

People only know when they see the difference in your life, so to them, your works justify you, that is, demonstrate you to be righteous.

But the demonstration of being righteous should not be confused with being righteous.

James was speaking of showing your faith by your works, that is for man, God already sees.

Much love!

Great answer marks

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Faith is before everything. First one must believe God exists, and rewards those who seek Him. Once we meet Him, then we find love.

Much love!

Yes, however, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the WORD OF GOD. You must hear of God to have faith in Him.

 

[farouk]

faith comes by hearing and hearing by the WORD OF GOD..

@1stCenturyLady Great verse; Romans 10.17.

 

[farouk]

Don't forget sex is full of STIs, broken condoms, and condoms that don't cover all of the infected skin.

@Will Joseph I think you're talking about the unmarried and condoms. The married sometimes use them; it's not just about ones that are bigger or thicker.

I'm sure that many married people who use them do concentrate on their spiritual relationship with the Lord.

 

[Tong2020]

Good grief, what do you want from me? Chapter 4 is in the middle of an eight chapter teaching and is one of the chapters that only sets up for the conclusion, and not to be plucked out and made out of it a doctrine of demons like so many twisted souls do on these forums. Chapter 8 is no longer the Law, but the SPIRIT.

No offense meant in what I said in my posts. I just don’t find it wise to continue making comments. For I might just be commenting based on a wrong guess. And it will only create misunderstanding.

I think my questions were simple and are aimed to make clarification. They are answerable, first with a yes or no, and followed by explanation if you so want to do so. But not saying a direct yes or no, leaves me guessing.

So, if you will consider, here are my questions again. But if you don’t want to, that’s fine, no problem.

According to Paul, concerning Abraham, was Abraham justified by works?

According to James, concerning Abraham, was Abraham justified by works?

According to Paul, what is accounted for righteousness?

According to James, what is accounted for righteousness?

Are they saying the same thing about justification? Are they speaking of the same justification? Are they making the same argument?

Tong
R4440

 

[Tong2020]

No, they are speaking differently. The difference is, justified to whom? God knows whether faith is real, and whether or not He rendered you righteous. This is being justified by God, make righteous.

People only know when they see the difference in your life, so to them, your works justify you, that is, demonstrate you to be righteous.

But the demonstration of being righteous should not be confused with being righteous.

James was speaking of showing your faith by your works, that is for man, God already sees.

Much love!

That’s right. Yet some here seems to not see and understand that.

And that justification really is on the account of faith. I’d say that the case of the thief on the cross gives a clear illustration of that.

Tong
R4441

 

[1stCenturyLady]

No offense meant in what I said in my posts. I just don’t find it wise to continue making comments. For I might just be commenting based on a wrong guess. And it will only create misunderstanding.

I think my questions were simple and are aimed to make clarification. They are answerable, first with a yes or no, and followed by explanation if you so want to do so. But not saying a direct yes or no, leaves me guessing.

So, if you will consider, here are my questions again. But if you don’t want to, that’s fine, no problem.

According to Paul, concerning Abraham, was Abraham justified by works?

According to James, concerning Abraham, was Abraham justified by works?

According to Paul, what is accounted for righteousness?

According to James, what is accounted for righteousness?

Are they saying the same thing about justification? Are they speaking of the same justification? Are they making the same argument?

Tong
R4440

Give me the specific scriptures you want clarified if you didn't like mine.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Yes, however, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the WORD OF GOD. You must hear of God to have faith in Him.

And as with “Lydia, the Seller Of Purple” it takes God to “ open the Heart” of the Listener...

 

[1stCenturyLady]

And as with “Lydia, the Seller Of Purple” it takes God to “ open the Heart” of the Listener...

I certainly don't have a problem with that, brother!

 

[Tong2020]

Give me the specific scriptures you want clarified if you didn't like mine.

The passages under consideration, where my questions are coming from are Romans 4:1-5 and James 2:18-25.

Tong
R4442

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The passages under consideration, where my questions are coming from are Romans 4:1-5 and James 2:18-25.

Tong
R4442

Thanks, Tong.

I'll get back to you tomorrow. Going to bed now.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Sound all good except that…..it doesn’t go well with the truth that:

Salvation is of God, by God, and by grace through faith in Him whom He sent, Jesus Christ, the Savior.

Everything I said does not nullify that.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Sound all good except that…..it doesn’t go well with the truth that:

Salvation is of God, by God, and by grace through faith in Him whom He sent, Jesus Christ, the Savior.

Everything I said does not nullify that.

What does it mean to you that Salvation is of God? That salvation is by God? That salvation is by grace?

If salvation depends on man, even in part, does that go well with the truth that Salvation is of God, by God, and by grace?

Tong
R4447

 

[Ferris Bueller]

What does it mean to you that Salvation is of God? That salvation is by God? That salvation is by grace?

He gives the conviction of sin and lostness. He gives the power to be saved. And he picks the time and the place for a person to choose to use that power to be saved.

Not wanting to go to hell is not a self righteous act that would somehow make salvation by works.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Some teach that some of the sheep under the care of the Lord Jesus Christ could be lost. How? They argue that while the passage says that nobody can snatch the sheep out of Jesus’ hands and the Father’s hand, it does not say they they could not of themselves jump off the sheep pen or of their own no longer follow Christ. They say and argue that they could, in their own free will, cease to believe or that they would believe no longer, and so become unbelievers. Thus, these sheep could lose their salvation by that.

What does it matter if a person is lost because they stop believing, or because they were never saved to begin with? They're lost either way. It's a very meaningless contention. We need to focus on and do what the Bible says...keep believing, and stop arguing about meaningless things.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

But if they only would try to see and look at WHO is the Good Shepherd under whose care and keeping they are now, and think about what the Good Shepherd had given up for them and have done to save them…….and just ponder upon what love the Good Shepherd have for His sheep

That's right. Those are the reasons the Bible tells us to keep believing.

"Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to what we profess." Hebrews 4:14

"Let us hold resolutely to the hope we profess, for He who promised is faithful." Hebrews 10:23
​

The greatness of the Ministry and Sacrifice of Christ and the love of God doesn't make it so you aren't able to stop believing. It's because of the greatness of Christ and the love of God that we should continue to believe. That is very clear what the above passages are saying. The message of the Bible is to KEEP BELIEVING.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And that justification really is on the account of faith.

There is being justified by faith. And there is being justified by works. The justification by works that James is talking about is NOT 'your works earn you right standing with God'. If that were true, then James is saying Abraham earned his right standing with God by offering Isaac up on the altar. Obviously, that is not what James is saying. He's saying Abraham was justified as having faith by what he did.

"...I will show you my faith by my deeds." James 2:18

"As you can see (by Abraham's example), a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone." James 2:24​

James tells us what being justified by works means. Abraham was justified as having faith because you could see his faith in what he did. But the church says, "I do not need to be justified that way because that would be works. I only need to be justified by faith alone." They are oblivious to the fact that if they were really justified by faith they'd have the life to show for it, and so they would, too, be justified by what they do, as Abraham was. But since the church does not understand this teaching, they think people who say they are saved and believe in God, but live in unchanged, unrepentant lives, are saved people, too. This horrible teaching in the church is deceiving millions into thinking they are saved when in fact they are not. Ultimately, if you can not see in your own life that you are saved by faith, then you aren't. You just think you are because you say you believe in Christ. That's called faith 'alone'—faith that is absent of righteous works to match one's confession of faith. That faith is a fake faith. It can not save you.

 

[FHII]

No, they are speaking differently. The difference is, justified to whom? God knows whether faith is real, and whether or not He rendered you righteous. This is being justified by God, make righteous.

People only know when they see the difference in your life, so to them, your works justify you, that is, demonstrate you to be righteous.

But the demonstration of being righteous should not be confused with being righteous.

James was speaking of showing your faith by your works, that is for man, God already sees.

Much love!

Love it! I have said the exact same thing before, but not as plain as tou put it.

Another thing people should realize is that James and his followers (being Jews) were still zealous for and kept the Law. Paul disagreed with that, even for Jews. He would suffer it, but he did not command it.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

He gives the conviction of sin and lostness. He gives the power to be saved. And he picks the time and the place for a person to choose to use that power to be saved.

Not wanting to go to hell is not a self righteous act that would somehow make salvation by works.

Yes, works is trying to keep God's laws with only our own willpower, instead of the divine power of God. That is what was being portrayed in Romans 7:14-23 - knowing the law, but keeping them in your own weakness.

The Spirit not only frees us from the sin nature that caused us to sin, but the written laws that were suppose to show us our sin. They became unnecessary to those who walk in the Spirit because God's laws and the fruit of the Spirit making the laws unnecessary, are the completion of the gospel. It is what Jesus came to do. And He accomplished what He came to do.

A doctrine of demons would twist this to say we will always sin while in these bodies. The body has nothing to do with sin. It is our nature that controls the body, and when the nature is divine, the body follows it.