Why Does God Allow This ???

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Aunty Jane

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Not intending to be picky, but the rulership off this world was given to Satan by Adam. It was Adam who before the fall had 'dominion' over all the earth. All loving creatures and the earth itself was his realm. But when he and Eve surrendered their wills to the tempter, they also surrendered their sovereignty. They second Adam, Jesus, by refusing to sin and relinquish His will to Satan, won back the rulership on behalf of man, hence when the time comes, the meek shall inherit the earth.
I have a very different perspective on that.....
By obeying satan and believing his lies, the first humans chose a different Sovereign to rule over them. But the earth’s rulership was only given to humans with God’s oversight. By leaving “the knowledge of good and evil” to their Creator, he would be fully involved in the exercise of their free will. It had boundaries that they were not to transgress. God asked for their willing obedience and warned them what disobedience would lead to.

We know what happened.....and when sin entered into the world and the devil was chuffed at his victory, God made a decision that put paid to the devil’s success.....he denied access to the “tree of life”. Without that, satan’s human worshippers would die and he would have to recruit more. As the human lifespan diminished, death came earlier (man was now decreed to live only 70 or 80 years) So the devil’s recruitment had to be constant so he would need others to assist him in turning the humans away from God. We know that he managed to take about a third of the angels with him into rebellion.

But as for the human race, with the help of his other recruits, satan introduced false worship...and it flourished. By turning the humans away from the true God and by and giving them many substitutes, satan managed to corrupt the natural desire in humans for worship, to obtain it for himself. Whatever worship went to false gods, went to the devil by default.

So when satan said that “all the kingdoms of the world” were his to give to whomever he wished (Luke 4:5-8) the only one who could authorise him to have that position was God himself. The earth was man’s domain, but rulership always belonged to God. Man was to have dominion over all the other living creatures on earth, but he was not given dominion over other humans. Man was to be subject to his Creator for all time to come. So you see why I have to disagree with your take on that?

The reason why God stepped back and gave rulership over to the devil was because he claimed to be the better ruler of mankind, suggesting that God was a liar and a bad ruler of questionable character. So satan was given opportunity to prove his case.....with little to no interference from God. What has human history proven beyond a shadow of a doubt? That satan is a failed loser who deserves the punishment that God has Promised to dish up to him and those who follow him. He knows his time is running out and he knows what awaits him and his cronies....so he has stepped up the pressure on humanity and at present we see the world struggling to return to any kind of normality.....we await what the scriptures tell us to expect at this time of the end. Those of little faith will not survive. (1 Peter 4:16-18) Those who have not chosen to serve God in the way that Jesus taught, will not fare well either. (Matthew 7:21-23)
Our decisions are ours to make.....
 

Brakelite

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The earth was man’s domain,
Dominion
07287 ‭הדָרָ‭ radah ‭raw-daw’‭

‭‭a primitive root; v; [BDB-921b, BDB-922a]‭ ‭{See TWOT on 2121}‭ ‭{See TWOT on 2122}‭

‭‭AV-rule 13, dominion 9, take 2, prevaileth 1, reign 1, ruler 1; 27‭

Domain...an area of territory owned or controlled by a particular ruler or government.
"the French domains of the Plantagenets"



but he was not given dominion over other humans
Far be it from me to suggest otherwise.
. Man was to be subject to his Creator for all time to come
Of course. Nothing else you said I would disagree with other than perhaps minor details. I don't think we disagree on the principle ideas. At least as far as this topic goes
 
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BloodBought 1953

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I have a very different perspective on that.....
By obeying satan and believing his lies, the first humans chose a different Sovereign to rule over them. But the earth’s rulership was only given to humans with God’s oversight. By leaving “the knowledge of good and evil” to their Creator, he would be fully involved in the exercise of their free will. It had boundaries that they were not to transgress. God asked for their willing obedience and warned them what disobedience would lead to.

We know what happened.....and when sin entered into the world and the devil was chuffed at his victory, God made a decision that put paid to the devil’s success.....he denied access to the “tree of life”. Without that, satan’s human worshippers would die and he would have to recruit more. As the human lifespan diminished, death came earlier (man was now decreed to live only 70 or 80 years) So the devil’s recruitment had to be constant so he would need others to assist him in turning the humans away from God. We know that he managed to take about a third of the angels with him into rebellion.

But as for the human race, with the help of his other recruits, satan introduced false worship...and it flourished. By turning the humans away from the true God and by and giving them many substitutes, satan managed to corrupt the natural desire in humans for worship, to obtain it for himself. Whatever worship went to false gods, went to the devil by default.

So when satan said that “all the kingdoms of the world” were his to give to whomever he wished (Luke 4:5-8) the only one who could authorise him to have that position was God himself. The earth was man’s domain, but rulership always belonged to God. Man was to have dominion over all the other living creatures on earth, but he was not given dominion over other humans. Man was to be subject to his Creator for all time to come. So you see why I have to disagree with your take on that?

The reason why God stepped back and gave rulership over to the devil was because he claimed to be the better ruler of mankind, suggesting that God was a liar and a bad ruler of questionable character. So satan was given opportunity to prove his case.....with little to no interference from God. What has human history proven beyond a shadow of a doubt? That satan is a failed loser who deserves the punishment that God has Promised to dish up to him and those who follow him. He knows his time is running out and he knows what awaits him and his cronies....so he has stepped up the pressure on humanity and at present we see the world struggling to return to any kind of normality.....we await what the scriptures tell us to expect at this time of the end. Those of little faith will not survive. (1 Peter 4:16-18) Those who have not chosen to serve God in the way that Jesus taught, will not fare well either. (Matthew 7:21-23)
Our decisions are ours to make.....


Satan’s Big Lie was essentially telling Adam and Eve that “ knowing right from wrong will make you like God”.....the rest of the Bible is God devoting Himself to showing that Satan is a Liar....He gave us 613 Commandments to show us right from wrong.....so far, nobody other than Jesus kept all of those Laws 24/7 ——“ knowing” the Laws is a far cry from “keeping” the Laws Of God .....one would have to KEEP them to be like God......Satan left out that part....He was truly “ The Father Of Lies”

Satan has never had a good reason to change his lie.....it’s still working just fine.....the World is still being deceived, thinking that it knows right from wrong and even though they may not be perfect, they think they are “ good enough” because , for the most part,they do the Good and avoid the Bad, and my hat is off to all of the “ moral” people out there.....it's a shame they don’t realize that Hell will be full of “ moral” people......God is not looking for “ good” people —- he’s looking for people that are “ dead in trespasses and sins “ and KNOW it ......those are the people that will “ Turn to Him” ( Repentance) for cleansing.....the only way to get that cleansing is to abandon your “ performance”, your “ I’m good enough to make it “ self- Righteousness, and put your Faith in the Shed Blood Of Jesus Plus Nothing to make you fit for Heaven......Don’t fall for Satan’s 6000 year old lie....
 

2ndRateMind

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Satan’s Big Lie was essentially telling Adam and Eve that “ knowing right from wrong will make you like God”.....the rest of the Bible is God devoting Himself to showing that Satan is a Liar...

To quote Aunty Jane, 'I have a very different perspective on that.' The Bible is the story, in my opinion, of some 4000 years of gradual human philosophical and theological development, 'til we hit the revelations of Jesus. Then we really start to make progress. I am so looking forward to God giving you all a big hug, come Judgment Day, and saying "Of course Genesis is true. It is a true account of the creation myth of the ancient Jews. If you want to read what really happened, check out 'On the Origin of Species' and 'The Descent of Man' by Darwin. And anything by Dawkins is useful, too."

Best wishes, 2RM.
 
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BloodBought 1953

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To quote Aunty Jane, 'I have a very different perspective on that.' The Bible is the story, in my opinion, of some 4000 years of gradual human philosophical and theological development, 'til we hit the revelations of Jesus. Then we really start to make progress. I am so looking forward to God giving you all a big hug, come Judgment Day, and saying "Of course Genesis is true. It is a true account of the creation myth of the ancient Jews. If you want to read what really happened, check out 'On the Origin of Species' and 'The Descent of Man' by Darwin. And anything by Dawkins is useful, too."

Best wishes, 2RM.


Thanks, but I’ll pass.....as a former lost atheist like Dawkins and Darwin, I prefer to leave my days of being a “ Fool” behind me...... “ The Fool has said, ‘ there is no God’ “....... may God open your eyes as He did mine...
 

BloodBought 1953

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Those who have not chosen to serve God in the way that Jesus taught, will not fare well either. (Matthew 7:21-23)

Those that ignore Jesus Command to “ Follow Paul” will fare worst Of all....We are going to be Judged by “ Paul's Gospel” on Judgement Day......
 

Aunty Jane

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Those who have not chosen to serve God in the way that Jesus taught, will not fare well either. (Matthew 7:21-23)

Those that ignore Jesus Command to “ Follow Paul” will fare worst Of all....We are going to be Judged by “ Paul's Gospel” on Judgement Day......
A scriptural reference for that please.....

Jesus chose the Twelve who became the foundation stones of God’s Kingdom. (Revelation 21:14)
When Judas defected there was an apostle missing.....Paul was not chosen to make up their number. It is true that Paul wrote a number of books in the Christian scriptures, but it was Peter whom Jesus told to ‘feed his sheep’. (John 21:15-17)
 

EloyCraft

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have a very different perspective on that.....
By obeying satan and believing his lies, the first humans chose a different Sovereign to rule over them.
Exactly. Consider this possible.
Adam's relationship with God was different than Eve's. God Gave special graces for them to fulfill their role. God revealed to Adam what was needed from him as father of humanity.. as He did with Eve. Eve heard the commands of God from Adam. He was alone when God gave it. But that set the proper order. Prophet Adam people Eve. Groom Bride.
When Eve started listening to the serpent the she began giving it authority. She listened to the first and most powerful false God. Recall the three temptations in the desert. She spoke for the serpent the false god . Adam listened. The spiritual order flipped and Eve was the prophetess of God and Adam the people that listened Scripture describes the flip

Rev 18

‘I sit as queen,
and am no widow,
and will not see sorrow.’


She is head of the family
She has a husband
She will never be barren


Mother of all the living will never be barren.
The pride of the prophetess is countered by the humility of the barren women.
 

Aunty Jane

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Exactly. Consider this possible.
Adam's relationship with God was different than Eve's. God Gave special graces for them to fulfill their role. God revealed to Adam what was needed from him as father of humanity.. as He did with Eve. Eve heard the commands of God from Adam. He was alone when God gave it. But that set the proper order. Prophet Adam people Eve. Groom Bride.
What special graces do you believe that God gave them? And what role did they have?
They were told to “be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it”....what exactly do you believe that meant for them?

When Eve started listening to the serpent the she began giving it authority. She listened to the first and most powerful false God.
Agreed. When satan told Eve that she would be “like God”...he really meant that it was he who wanted to be “like God”.

Recall the three temptations in the desert. She spoke for the serpent the false god . Adam listened. The spiritual order flipped and Eve was the prophetess of God and Adam the people that listened Scripture describes the flip
I’m not sure what you mean here....the temptations in the desert are interesting because they were a challenge to Christ’s integrity....testing his resolve to do his Father’s will rather than his own. As a human with free will, satan’s temptations were a test of his humanity....each designed to tap into selfish thinking....the very thing that undid him in the first place.

Rev 18

‘I sit as queen,
and am no widow,
and will not see sorrow.’


She is head of the family
She has a husband
She will never be barren

Mother of all the living will never be barren.
The pride of the prophetess is countered by the humility of the barren women.
I am confused about your reference to Revelation 18 which is about “Babylon the great”.

Can you explain what you believe the connection is...?

I know what I believe Babylon the great to be, but what do you think it is?
 

2ndRateMind

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Thanks, but I’ll pass.....as a former lost atheist like Dawkins and Darwin, I prefer to leave my days of being a “ Fool” behind me...... “ The Fool has said, ‘ there is no God’ “....... may God open your eyes as He did mine...

Even atheists, perhaps, especially atheists, given they are unencumbered by 6000 years of the accretions of religion, may speak the truth that others have missed. And neither Darwin nor Dawkins are fools, whether we agree with them or not. But you may read as you will, and will not. It is not for me to set you homework, as if you were a wayward school truant. I just regret you are missing out on an exciting development in biology.

Best wishes, 2RM.
 

BloodBought 1953

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A scriptural reference for that please.....

Jesus chose the Twelve who became the foundation stones of God’s Kingdom. (Revelation 21:14)
When Judas defected there was an apostle missing.....Paul was not chosen to make up their number. It is true that Paul wrote a number of books in the Christian scriptures, but it was Peter whom Jesus told to ‘feed his sheep’. (John 21:15-17)



The Disciples chose Mathias ......God chose Paul.....Mathias was Lost to History.....Paul established the Church....need I say more?

Romans 2:16. “ On the day that God Will Judge the secrets of men —- according to MY GOSPEL”

Peter was indeed told to “ feed my sheep” ....fine. God said that Paul was “ His Chosen Vessel” to reveal the Mysteries that had been kept hidden from the Apostles — even Peter! The Apostles knew Nothing about Salvation being offered to the Gentiles.....they knew nothing about the Church Age....they new nothing about the Rapture.....they never knew the greatest Secret of all— “ Christ *IN* us, the hope of glory.......

Peter admitted that he found Paul “ hard to understand” , but even “ he” knew that everything that Paul said was as valid as anything found in the Scriptures and he told others that that was true...
 

BloodBought 1953

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Even atheists, perhaps, especially atheists, given they are unencumbered by 6000 years of the accretions of religion, may speak the truth that others have missed. And neither Darwin nor Dawkins are fools, whether we agree with them or not. But you may read as you will, and will not. It is not for me to set you homework, as if you were a wayward school truant. I just regret you are missing out on an exciting development in biology.

Best wishes, 2RM.


With all due respect, it was God in His Word that called these types , “Fools” —— not me.....I would wager that both of these men would agree with God right now.....they were intelligent men that got that intelligence as a gift from God, yet they ignored God and did not even acknowledge His existence.....intelligent but Blind.....in the end they were Fools.....
 

farouk

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That is the point, god will u se hard trials to improve us and draw us closer to HImself. He will do this always! Many times we do not even know what God is purifying us from until we are in the heat of the trial which God allows to draw us closer!
@Ronald Nolette Isaiah 48.10 is indeed searching: "I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction".
 

2ndRateMind

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With all due respect, it was God in His Word that called these types , “Fools” —— not me.....I would wager that both of these men would agree with God right now.....they were intelligent men that got that intelligence as a gift from God, yet they ignored God and did not even acknowledge His existence.....intelligent but Blind.....in the end they were Fools.....

The phrase: 'With all due respect...' generally means: 'With no respect at all.' And to the best of my knowledge, Professor Dawkins is still alive. Perhaps you could try and convert him!

Best wishes, 2RM.
 
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BloodBought 1953

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The phrase: 'With all due respect...' generally means: 'With no respect at all.' And to the best of my knowledge, Professor Dawkins is still alive. Perhaps you could try and convert him!

Best wishes, 2RM.


Convert Dawkins ? No thanks —- that would be “ Casting Pearls before Swine” and if you will permit me to add, with all due respect as always......” The Gospel is Foolishness to those that Perish”
 

Ziggy

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I am enduring right now continual pain because of severe, widespread and chronic arhtritis. I have depression and self-pity barking at me to let them in so I can snuff out my testimony. I prayed with other saints at our service to strengthen me against those negative emotions trying to gain control.

As much as I hate living in pain, I trust that God will work it to my good, even if I don't see how or why. I hope this helps.

Praying
Hugs
 
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2ndRateMind

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Convert Dawkins ? No thanks —- that would be “ Casting Pearls before Swine” and if you will permit me to add, with all due respect as always......” The Gospel is Foolishness to those that Perish”

Have you read Dawkins' The God Delusion? Ultimately, I find it unconvincing, but on the way through, he does make some good points, and I found it enriched my faith as I grappled with them. You might - or might not - have a similar experience. For balance, you might like The Dawkins Delusion, by Alistair McGrath. Whatever, I have no hesitation in recommending either or both. What I cannot recommend is ignoring the debate on the grounds of a prejudice against atheism. It is a significant feature of our time, and, though a generation hence it may be less prominent, I think it always better to know what is being discussed in our day and age than not. And I think you would agree that there are souls to save.

Best wishes, 2RM.
 

BloodBought 1953

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Have you read Dawkins' The God Delusion? Ultimately, I find it unconvincing, but on the way through, he does make some good points, and I found it enriched my faith as I grappled with them. You might - or might not - have a similar experience. For balance, you might like The Dawkins Delusion, by Alistair McGrath. Whatever, I have no hesitation in recommending either or both. What I cannot recommend is ignoring the debate on the grounds of a prejudice against atheism. It is a significant feature of our time, and, though a generation hence it may be less prominent, I think it always better to know what is being discussed in our day and age than not. And I think you would agree that there are souls to save.

Best wishes, 2RM.



When it comes to atheism my attitude is “ Been there- Done that”.......years ago, I used to enjoy going into the woods to catch frogs......these days , I just can’t get that excited about catching frogs “ or” studying atheism.......Thanks for your kind invitation, but I just have better ways to spend my time .....I have as much interest in studying atheism as I do about studying “ Voo- Doo”...... Lol....
 

2ndRateMind

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When it comes to atheism my attitude is “ Been there- Done that”.......years ago, I used to enjoy going into the woods to catch frogs......these days , I just can’t get that excited about catching frogs “ or” studying atheism.......Thanks for your kind invitation, but I just have better ways to spend my time .....I have as much interest in studying atheism as I do about studying “ Voo- Doo”...... Lol....

I, too, have been there and done that. But I find in my experience as an atheist a rich mine of truths to assimilate into the Christian religion and my personal faith. God is good, truth is good, God is truth. But even atheists may speak truth, and when they do, perhaps they are not so far from God as they, and many Christians, imagine. However, I suspect we are not converging on agreement here, so I pass the thread on to others.

Best wishes, 2RM.
 
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quietthinker

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Why Does God Allow This ???
God doesn't control the choices of his creatures!
If he did, do you think Lucifer would have gotten as far as he has? Would our Planet be in the straits it is in? etc etc.