Ever wondered why the emphasis on faith is so dominant in Scripture?
Maybe also because we need it in afterlife?
The afterlife is very long.....
Maybe we forget?
Just brainstorming.
Why doesn't your "whole Bible view" include Universalism?
- Thread starter St. SteVen
- Start date
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Ever wondered why the emphasis on faith is so dominant in Scripture?
Maybe also because we need it in afterlife?
The afterlife is very long.....
Maybe we forget?
Just brainstorming.
No, torment them in Hell FOREVER. That's what Jesus said.
Satan LOVES that doctrine!
Behold
Well-Known Member
If the Devil was walking around as a man, He'd love Universalism... it would be His Gospel....because it concludes that He'd be saved in the end.
If we read the NT, we find something similar.
We find JUDAS....and Jesus said of Him......"one of you IS A DEVIL".
He didn't say...>>"has a devil". He didnt say "is demon possessed"....>He said. 'IS a Devil".
And Judas is not going to Heaven....>He wont be saved in the End...tho Universalism Cultists like StSteven would conclude that He'll be right up there with Jesus.
Thats a NO.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
I am coming in late on this...however...
The passages often given to support Universalism only address two-thirds of all who are born. What is missing are the "damnable"--the "sons of perdition"--"the third part."
Oh yes. I wondered about it plenty.
Here are a couple of topics on the subject.
Leaving Room for Faith - why we don't know EVERYTHING
Theistic Agnosticism - The honesty to admit we don't know everything
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I agree that the support for Universalism is the weakest of the three doctrines of the final judgement.
But we did get our canon from the RCC who had a damnationist bias.
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
and what do we say to a false gospel .
NO DEAL . they can keep it .
AS FOR ME ITS JESUS my friend . I know WHO saves and that HE be the only ONE who saves
and that one must BELIEVE on HIM to be saved .
SO here is what i say to la madre de mintidas y muerte , la reigna del los putos y abominations del mundo .
NO DEAL WHORE . we sit at the table of CHRIST , not anti christ .
We know all we need to know. It's called the Bible that you said "I love the Bible".
Enjoy stevie:
Deuteronomy 28:20-22
20 "The LORD will send on you cursing, confusion, and rebuke in all that you set your hand to do, until you are destroyed and until you perish quickly, because of the wickedness of your doings in which you have forsaken Me.
21 The LORD will make the plague cling to you until He has consumed you from the land which you are going to possess.
22 The LORD will strike you with consumption, with fever, with inflammation, with severe burning fever, with the sword, with scorching, and with mildew; they shall pursue you until you perish.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Reader beware for the end of this will be the second death .
But it sure seems many do love the bits and peices bible society .
ScottA
Well-Known Member
I wasn't referring to the Catholics, but to sons of perdition--the damnable sons of Satan...as opposed to the sons of Adam, or those born of the spirit of God.
I'll admit that I don't know who these one third of all who were born that you refer to.
In general, Universalism (Ultimate Redemption) refers to humankind. (Adam's race)
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Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
2 Peter 3:9: “The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise, as some understand slowness. Instead He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
Have you ever taken the time to really study the word perish and how it’s used throughout Scripture? Those who cling to the doctrine of eternal torment miss this entirely, too distracted by teachings that only tickle their ears to grasp its true meaning.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
Well, look at how its used here.
John 11:50–53 “It is expedient for us, that one should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not…Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.”
Greek Word for “perish”: ἀπόλλυμι (apollymi)
- To destroy, ruin, lose, perish, or kill.
- Can refer to physical destruction, spiritual loss, or total ruin.
- Context determines whether it is temporal or eternal, literal or metaphorical.
John 6:27 “Do not labor for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.
Because the majority of Christians believe in the immortal soul, they fail to grasp the meaning of “perish” or how the apostles consistently used it. A single false teaching can distort the text entirely. When the apostles speak of God not wanting people to utterly cease to exist, or whether in the context of leaders plotting to kill Christ for fear of Roman reprisal, or of food decaying to nothing, the word carries a consistent meaning. Introduce even one incorrect belief, and the word’s true significance is lost.
Examples:
- Matthew 10:28 – “…fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell (grave).” (destroy = perish)
- John 6:27 – “…do not work for food that perishes, but for food that endures to eternal life…”
- 2 Peter 3:9 – “…not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Now if you were to study every occurrence of the word perish you would immediately see the conundrum!
Ultimately you would be forced to acknowledge that Christians do not have the original Gospel.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
@St. SteVen now apply this understanding to a familiar verse.
John 3:16 – “…whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life” = apollymi ---> “cease to exist without Christ”
If eternal life is the extreme, then perish is eternal death.
All Christians can do is attempt to impose their interpretations on the metaphorical language describing the grave, but ultimately, their misunderstanding lies in their refusal to accept that people can truly cease to exist.
John 3:16 – “…whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life” = apollymi ---> “cease to exist without Christ”
If eternal life is the extreme, then perish is eternal death.
All Christians can do is attempt to impose their interpretations on the metaphorical language describing the grave, but ultimately, their misunderstanding lies in their refusal to accept that people can truly cease to exist.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
@St. SteVen
Luke 13:3 "No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."
Context: Many did, in 70 AD, amidst the sacrifices of the Temple!
Many Christians try to soften Christ’s teaching by claiming that the unrepentant continue to exist in a fiery place of torment, but that is not what he actually taught, they simply cease to exist.
You (identity) speaks to the whole of life, the person, body, mind - everything ceases to exist.
Luke 13:3 "No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."
Context: Many did, in 70 AD, amidst the sacrifices of the Temple!
Many Christians try to soften Christ’s teaching by claiming that the unrepentant continue to exist in a fiery place of torment, but that is not what he actually taught, they simply cease to exist.
You (identity) speaks to the whole of life, the person, body, mind - everything ceases to exist.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Anytime anyone calls GOD a LIAR the demons cheer .
NOW who was it that SHOWED and TOLD JOHN about this lake of fire
that so many now seem to want to say DONT exist .
WHO are they calling A LIAR when they say no eternal punishment .
WELL WHO SAID IT . GOD DID .
And worse has this led them and right into the snare of the dark one
WHO NOW makes the road to GOD very very broad through its inclusive false love and lie that will save none but damn all .
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