Why don't we enforce the biblical prescriptives on hair length for men and women?

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St. SteVen

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Not me, man. Aside from the fact that I like my wife's affections, all I have to do is look at my college yearbook pictures and see that scruffy stuff on my face, and say... nah.
Doesn't work for everyone.

I like the salt and pepper thing.

The salt is definitely winning. - LOL

/
 
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DuckieLady

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1) If a couple showed up at church, the male with shoulder-length hair and
the woman with a buzz-cut, how would you feel about them?

I would feel like im in Portland Oregon
2) If someone showed up at church with a gay pride slogan on their shirt,
how would you feel about them?
I would again feel like I'm in Portland Oregon
 

St. SteVen

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I would feel like im in Portland Oregon

I would again feel like I'm in Portland Oregon
Okay...
What does it feel like to be in Portland Oregon when you are from the Midwest?

A more straight-forward question would be whether you would have a bias toward them?
Would you welcome them, or wish they would leave?

Questions:
1) If a couple showed up at church, the male with shoulder-length hair and
the woman with a buzz-cut, how would you feel about them?
2) If someone showed up at church with a gay pride slogan on their shirt,
how would you feel about them?

/
 

Hobie

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When launching a new topic (thread) a prompt appears asking the question:
"Is this already being discussed?"

When I entered this topic title, an existing topic title appeared that I hadn't seen before,
but seemed to be in line with what I wanted to discuss. The topic was nearly laughed out of existence.
Lasting less than ten posts. Here's a link, if like me, you hadn't seen it before, and are curious.

How a Christian should look!

I can see why the topic didn't survive. It took a very conservative (by today's standards) view of male and female appearances.

If the topic had limited the OP questions/points to hair length as a biblical prescriptive, it may have fared better. IMHO

The scripture below gives some very direct prescriptives about this.
Yet we understand that this is meaningless in our current culture. Right?
The Apostle certainly doesn't use the modern day reasoning that says that Jesus had long hair.
Where did we get that idea? Hollywood, right?

I find it interesting that we ignore the biblical prescriptive on hair length, but protest a gay pride parade over sexual issues.

Questions:
1) If a couple showed up at church, the male with shoulder-length hair and
the woman with a buzz-cut, how would you feel about them?
2) If someone showed up at church with a gay pride slogan on their shirt,
how would you feel about them?


1 Corinthians 11:3-12. 13-15 NIV
But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man,[a] and the head of Christ is God.
4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head.
5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved.
6 For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off;
but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head. ... [7-12]
13 Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?
14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him,
15 but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.


/ cc: @John839
In the islands it was considered a 'disgrace' to have long hair, so they basically cut the hair down to the 'bone'.
Here, it isnt, so I can only venture it was a cultural thing.
 
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DuckieLady

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Okay...
What does it feel like to be in Portland Oregon when you are from the Midwest?

A more straight-forward question would be whether you would have a bias toward them?
Would you welcome them, or wish they would leave?

Questions:
1) If a couple showed up at church, the male with shoulder-length hair and
the woman with a buzz-cut, how would you feel about them?
2) If someone showed up at church with a gay pride slogan on their shirt,
how would you feel about them?

/
Honestly, I feel like this answer will vary based on age.

1. For my age group, we don't care. Doesn't the Bible say "for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart."

It also used to be a overwhelming disgrace for a woman to wear a man's hat. I'm not saying we're right on every level. There's a lot we are not.


And for your second question

2. Disappointed
 
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St. SteVen

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Honestly, I feel like this answer will vary based on age.

1. For my age group, we don't care. Doesn't the Bible say "for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart."

It also used to be a overwhelming disgrace for a woman to wear a man's hat. I'm not saying we're right on every level. There's a lot we are not.


And for your second question

2. Disappointed
Interesting response.
Sorry, I'm slow at responding. I guess I wanted to think about it some more.

What do you make of this?
Verse thirteen below says: "Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?" - vs 13

Without considering the context and cultural setting, this seems pretty startling. Do you cover your head when you pray?

1 Corinthians 11:3-6. 13-15 NIV
But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man,[a] and the head of Christ is God.
4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head.
5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved.
6 For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off;
but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.
[7-12]
13 Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?
14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him,
15 but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.

/
 
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Hazelelponi

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Okay...
What does it feel like to be in Portland Oregon when you are from the Midwest?

A more straight-forward question would be whether you would have a bias toward them?
Would you welcome them, or wish they would leave?

Questions:
1) If a couple showed up at church, the male with shoulder-length hair and
the woman with a buzz-cut, how would you feel about them?
2) If someone showed up at church with a gay pride slogan on their shirt,
how would you feel about them?

/

Why would I feel anything based on how they look or dress?

They are in church, good enough for me!

Clothes around here though often come either from Walmart or the second hand store... So there's never judgement, but men generally try and wear their good jeans and good shirts (but it's hillbilly good so nothing fancy) and women will either wear their good jeans, good slacks, or a dress if they have one.

Around here it just is what it is. People go to church in the best of whatever they have... and that can vary.
 
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Hazelelponi

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When launching a new topic (thread) a prompt appears asking the question:
"Is this already being discussed?"

When I entered this topic title, an existing topic title appeared that I hadn't seen before,
but seemed to be in line with what I wanted to discuss. The topic was nearly laughed out of existence.
Lasting less than ten posts. Here's a link, if like me, you hadn't seen it before, and are curious.

How a Christian should look!

I can see why the topic didn't survive. It took a very conservative (by today's standards) view of male and female appearances.

If the topic had limited the OP questions/points to hair length as a biblical prescriptive, it may have fared better. IMHO

The scripture below gives some very direct prescriptives about this.
Yet we understand that this is meaningless in our current culture. Right?
The Apostle certainly doesn't use the modern day reasoning that says that Jesus had long hair.
Where did we get that idea? Hollywood, right?

I find it interesting that we ignore the biblical prescriptive on hair length, but protest a gay pride parade over sexual issues.

Questions:
1) If a couple showed up at church, the male with shoulder-length hair and
the woman with a buzz-cut, how would you feel about them?
2) If someone showed up at church with a gay pride slogan on their shirt,
how would you feel about them?


1 Corinthians 11:3-6. 13-15 NIV
But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man,[a] and the head of Christ is God.
4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head.
5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved.
6 For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off;
but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.
[7-12]
13 Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?
14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him,
15 but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.


/ cc: @John839


 

St. SteVen

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Thanks, but I'm not referring to the OT law.
I'm quoting the NT.
(also check out post #26 above) Do you cover your head when you pray? (see verse 13 below)

1 Corinthians 11:3-6. 13-15 NIV
But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man,[a] and the head of Christ is God.
4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head.
5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved.
6 For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off;
but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.
[7-12]
13 Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?
14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him,
15 but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.


/
 
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Hazelelponi

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I don't cut my hair..

The Bible says a woman's hair is her covering...I have plenty of it.. I also have the covering of my husband and of Christ.

@St. SteVen
 
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Cassandra

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Thanks, but I'm not referring to the OT law.
I'm quoting the NT.
(also check out post #26 above) Do you cover your head when you pray? (see verse 13 below)

1 Corinthians 11:3-6. 13-15 NIV
But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man,[a] and the head of Christ is God.
4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head.
5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved.
6 For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off;
but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.
[7-12]
13 Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?
14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him,
15 but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.


/
Nazirites were permitted long hair.
 
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St. SteVen

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Nazirites were permitted long hair.
That's a great point.
I suppose it came with the office however.
You couldn't just grow your hair out and claim you were a Nazarite.
What did it mean to be a Nazarite? Do you recall?

Probably like the hair coat that Prophets wore.

/
 

ScottA

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When launching a new topic (thread) a prompt appears asking the question:
"Is this already being discussed?"

When I entered this topic title, an existing topic title appeared that I hadn't seen before,
but seemed to be in line with what I wanted to discuss. The topic was nearly laughed out of existence.
Lasting less than ten posts. Here's a link, if like me, you hadn't seen it before, and are curious.

How a Christian should look!

I can see why the topic didn't survive. It took a very conservative (by today's standards) view of male and female appearances.

If the topic had limited the OP questions/points to hair length as a biblical prescriptive, it may have fared better. IMHO

The scripture below gives some very direct prescriptives about this.
Yet we understand that this is meaningless in our current culture. Right?
The Apostle certainly doesn't use the modern day reasoning that says that Jesus had long hair.
Where did we get that idea? Hollywood, right?

I find it interesting that we ignore the biblical prescriptive on hair length, but protest a gay pride parade over sexual issues.

Questions:
1) If a couple showed up at church, the male with shoulder-length hair and
the woman with a buzz-cut, how would you feel about them?
2) If someone showed up at church with a gay pride slogan on their shirt,
how would you feel about them?


1 Corinthians 11:3-6. 13-15 NIV
But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man,[a] and the head of Christ is God.
4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head.
5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved.
6 For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off;
but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.
[7-12]
13 Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?
14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him,
15 but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.


/ cc: @John839

The words were not recorded in the eternal word of God, as actually being about hair.

Example: When John the Baptist said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!" the disciples did not all leave, saying, "He didn't say 'Jesus'--so we're outta here." Because they understood, that John used the word "Lamb" in parable.

1 Corinthians 11:3-15 is a parable--it's not about hair. The whole Bible is parables. It's all parables.
 

amadeus

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That's a great point.
I suppose it came with the office however.
You couldn't just grow your hair out and claim you were a Nazarite.
What did it mean to be a Nazarite? Do you recall?

Seems to be a voluntary thing that a man or woman could do at their own discretion. The exceptions would that married woman might be hindered by her husband or an unmarried daughter by her father.
ryzn Naziyr (naw-zeer'); Noun Masculine, Strong #: 5139
  1. consecrated or devoted one, Nazarite
    1. consecrated one
    2. devotee, Nazarite
    3. untrimmed (vine)
Nu 6:2Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When either man or woman shall separate themselves to vow a vow of a Nazarite, to separate themselves unto the LORD:
Nu 6:3He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.
Nu 6:4All the days of his separation shall he eat nothing that is made of the vine tree, from the kernels even to the husk
Nu 6:5All the days of the vow of his separation there shall no razor come upon his head: until the days be fulfilled, in the which he separateth himself unto the LORD, he shall be holy, and shall let the locks of the hair of his head grow.
Nu 6:6All the days that he separateth himself unto the LORD he shall come at no dead body.
Nu 6:7He shall not make himself unclean for his father, or for his mother, for his brother, or for his sister, when they die: because the consecration of his God is upon his head.
Nu 6:8All the days of his separation he is holy unto the LORD.
Nu 6:9And if any man die very suddenly by him, and he hath defiled the head of his consecration; then he shall shave his head in the day of his cleansing, on the seventh day shall he shave it.
Nu 6:10And on the eighth day he shall bring two turtles, or two young pigeons, to the priest, to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation:
Nu 6:11And the priest shall offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering, and make an atonement for him, for that he sinned by the dead, and shall hallow his head that same day.
Nu 6:12And he shall consecrate unto the LORD the days of his separation, and shall bring a lamb of the first year for a trespass offering: but the days that were before shall be lost, because his separation was defiled.
Nu 6:13And this is the law of the Nazarite, when the days of his separation are fulfilled: he shall be brought unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation:
Nu 6:14And he shall offer his offering unto the LORD, one he lamb of the first year without blemish for a burnt offering, and one ewe lamb of the first year without blemish for a sin offering, and one ram without blemish for peace offerings,
Nu 6:15And a basket of unleavened bread, cakes of fine flour mingled with oil, and wafers of unleavened bread anointed with oil, and their meat offering, and their drink offerings.
Nu 6:16And the priest shall bring them before the LORD, and shall offer his sin offering, and his burnt offering:
Nu 6:17And he shall offer the ram for a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD, with the basket of unleavened bread: the priest shall offer also his meat offering, and his drink offering.
Nu 6:18And the Nazarite shall shave the head of his separation at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall take the hair of the head of his separation, and put it in the fire which is under the sacrifice of the peace offerings.
Nu 6:19And the priest shall take the sodden shoulder of the ram, and one unleavened cake out of the basket, and one unleavened wafer, and shall put them upon the hands of the Nazarite, after the hair of his separation is shaven:
Nu 6:20And the priest shall wave them for a wave offering before the LORD: this is holy for the priest, with the wave breast and heave shoulder: and after that the Nazarite may drink wine.
Nu 6:21This is the law of the Nazarite who hath vowed, and of his offering unto the LORD for his separation, beside that that his hand shall get: according to the vow which he vowed, so he must do after the law of his separation.

Nu 30:2If a man vow a vow unto the LORD, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.
Nu 30:3If a woman also vow a vow unto the LORD, and bind herself by a bond, being in her father's house in her youth;
Nu 30:4And her father hear her vow, and her bond wherewith she hath bound her soul, and her father shall hold his peace at her: then all her vows shall stand, and every bond wherewith she hath bound her soul shall stand.
Nu 30:5But if her father disallow her in the day that he heareth; not any of her vows, or of her bonds wherewith she hath bound her soul, shall stand: and the LORD shall forgive her, because her father disallowed her.
Nu 30:6And if she had at all an husband, when she vowed, or uttered ought out of her lips, wherewith she bound her soul;
Nu 30:7And her husband heard it, and held his peace at her in the day that he heard it: then her vows shall stand, and her bonds wherewith she bound her soul shall stand.
Nu 30:8But if her husband disallowed her on the day that he heard it; then he shall make her vow which she vowed, and that which she uttered with her lips, wherewith she bound her soul, of none effect: and the LORD shall forgive her.
 
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St. SteVen

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1 Corinthians 11:3-15 is a parable--it's not about hair. The whole Bible is parables. It's all parables.
Not about hair?
Looks pretty specific to me.
How did you arrive at that conclusion?

1 Corinthians 11:3-6. 13-15 NIV
But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man,[a] and the head of Christ is God.
4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head.
5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved.
6 For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off;
but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.
[7-12]
13 Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?
14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him,
15 but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.

/
 

ScottA

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Not about hair?
Looks pretty specific to me.
How did you arrive at that conclusion?

1 Corinthians 11:3-6. 13-15 NIV
But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man,[a] and the head of Christ is God.
4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head.
5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved.
6 For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off;
but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.
[7-12]
13 Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?
14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him,
15 but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.

/

“To you it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to those who are outside, all things come in parables, 12so that ‘Seeing they may see and not perceive, And hearing they may hear and not understand; Lest they should turn, And their sins be forgiven them.’ ”
13And He said to them, “Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables? Mark 3:11-13​

If the Bible is written in plain language (as many mistakenly interpret by common definition and understanding), how then is the mystery made known to those who are His?

"The words that I speak to you are spirit..." John 6:63​
In 1 Corinthians 11:2-12 you will notice the initial word is not regarding hair but is rather about Christ being the Head of the church. Then begins the parable using hair as a rational and parable regarding the order of headship. It is regarding this order (not actually regarding hair at all), that Paul then explains, that if a woman has no covering, it is as though the church (Bride/women) has no Christ, and if a man (Christ) is covered (as with long hair) it is as if Christ is covered and not revealed (of which there is more to be said--but this is enough):

Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you. 3But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonors his head. 5But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved. 6For if a woman is not covered, let her also be shorn. But if it is shameful for a woman to be shorn or shaved, let her be covered. 7For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8For man is not from woman, but woman from man. 9Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man. 10For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels. 11Nevertheless, neither is man independent of woman, nor woman independent of man, in the Lord. 12For as woman came from man, even so man also comes through woman; but all things are from God.
 
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DuckieLady

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Interesting response.
Sorry, I'm slow at responding. I guess I wanted to think about it some more.

What do you make of this?
Verse thirteen below says: "Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?" - vs 13

Without considering the context and cultural setting, this seems pretty startling. Do you cover your head when you pray?

1 Corinthians 11:3-6. 13-15 NIV
But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man,[a] and the head of Christ is God.
4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head.
5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved.
6 For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off;
but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.
[7-12]
13 Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?
14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him,
15 but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.

/
I'm one of the few on here who was a practicing Mennonite- with a covering. I quit the covering and garb about a couple of years ago.

I believe the covering is for wearing in church (keep in mind the end of this chapter says the church has "no other such practice'- this is a practice of the church, this is what they do) to keep men from being distracted from a woman's beautiful hair during worship, which would bring shame her husband. (See vs 5. The husband being her head. Not her physical head.)

But outside of the church, I do not wear one. Part of that reason is the verse uses the requirement in the church. Now if we were outside of the church, and I was praying with other men, still likely necessary. Basic applicable common sense if you understand the purpose.

I work in public and have to maintain professionalism so I did cut my hair to chin length. I came to decide this was okay, because it is still feminine and growing six feet of hair is not and has not ever been practical and Biblical times, more than likely definitely not safe or hygienic.

So I think, obviously cutting is okay. Did God ask us to trip over our hair? I don't remember that part.

Mennonite men keep their hair short. Does that mean a man who disagrees and grows his hair long is loved less by God? No. I don't believe so.
 
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BarneyFife

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Dec 19, 2019
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When launching a new topic (thread) a prompt appears asking the question:
"Is this already being discussed?"

When I entered this topic title, an existing topic title appeared that I hadn't seen before,
but seemed to be in line with what I wanted to discuss. The topic was nearly laughed out of existence.
Lasting less than ten posts. Here's a link, if like me, you hadn't seen it before, and are curious.

How a Christian should look!

I can see why the topic didn't survive. It took a very conservative (by today's standards) view of male and female appearances.

If the topic had limited the OP questions/points to hair length as a biblical prescriptive, it may have fared better. IMHO

The scripture below gives some very direct prescriptives about this.
Yet we understand that this is meaningless in our current culture. Right?
The Apostle certainly doesn't use the modern day reasoning that says that Jesus had long hair.
Where did we get that idea? Hollywood, right?

I find it interesting that we ignore the biblical prescriptive on hair length, but protest a gay pride parade over sexual issues.

Questions:
1) If a couple showed up at church, the male with shoulder-length hair and
the woman with a buzz-cut, how would you feel about them?
2) If someone showed up at church with a gay pride slogan on their shirt,
how would you feel about them?


1 Corinthians 11:3-6. 13-15 NIV
But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man,[a] and the head of Christ is God.
4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head.
5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved.
6 For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off;
but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.
[7-12]
13 Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?
14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him,
15 but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.


/ cc: @John839

My wife doesn't like when I let my eyebrows grow out.

:hearteyes:
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