Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit?

[Godslittleservant]

Hello Godslittleservant,

It seems to me that new life, starts at the cross, burial, and resurrection. Anyone who desires to look into these matters, and they have faith they will 'change their mind,' which is what repent means. They will follow the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ, and they will if they continue to abide in him, have new life.

Yes I agree with you on that and it is through baptism in the name of Jesus Christ that we start this new life we are born again just as Paul clearly teaches in the letter to the Romans in Chapter 6 he deals with what baptism in the name of Jesus Christ does for the lost sinner dead in sin how God through his grace works his transforming spiritual work to make dead alive again in Christ.

 

[MatthewG]

Yes I agree with you on that and it is through baptism in the name of Jesus Christ that we start this new life we are born again just as Paul clearly teaches in the letter to the Romans in Chapter 6 he deals with what baptism in the name of Jesus Christ does for the lost sinner dead in sin how God through his grace works his transforming spiritual work to make dead alive again in Christ.

Exceptional. Thank you for sharing that with me.

 

[St. SteVen]

Yes I agree with you on that and it is through baptism in the name of Jesus Christ that we start this new life we are born again just as Paul clearly teaches in the letter to the Romans in Chapter 6 he deals with what baptism in the name of Jesus Christ does for the lost sinner dead in sin how God through his grace works his transforming spiritual work to make dead alive again in Christ.

Why do you hang everything on baptism?
And how are you defining "baptism"?
Do you mean believer's baptism in water? Does infant baptism count in your reckoning?
Or did you mean Spirit baptism?
And if so, how are you defining that?

Is not turning to God in the moment you realize you need him,
and turning your life over to Him, not the moment of conversion?
Why baptism? (whatever that means)

@David in NJ @Nancy @Episkopos @Tommy Cool @Chadrho @Hillsage

 

[St. SteVen]

New thread. (shameless self-promotion)

The view of the "Gentleman God" who honors human will above His own.

"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward [a]us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." - 2 Peter 3:9 NKJV In regards to "free-will", I have often heard the argument that God, being the gentleman...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Godslittleservant]

Why do you hang everything on baptism?
And how are you defining "baptism"?
Do you mean believer's baptism in water? Does infant baptism count in your reckoning?
Or did you mean Spirit baptism?
And if so, how are you defining that?

Is not turning to God in the moment you realize you need him,
and turning your life over to Him, not the moment of conversion?
Why baptism? (whatever that means)

@David in NJ @Nancy @Episkopos @Tommy Cool @Chadrho @Hillsage

I do not hang everything on baptism but try to get people to see what baptism really is about. so many have a false view of the teaching on baptism and I am just trying to Defend God's true purpose as recorded in scripture on the teaching on this subject. It does not mean that I down play believing on the one God sent which is his son to die on the cross for my transgression not his but mine. It does not mean that I down play the command to confess my Lord before others I praise his name. It does not mean I will try try to down play the role of repentance in my life. I just defend what I see the false teaching on baptism. I want to get people to see the grue teaching on this subject cause we have all the others figured out it is just this one that seems to be hard to understand.

I see the bible defining as a believers baptism water not for infants but those that truly understand that it is for the remission of sin and giving of the spirit just as Peter said it is in Acts 2:38 and that it is where we join Christ at the cross where God in this act has chosen to transform us from dead in sin to alive in Christ it is at this point we get washed with the cleansing blood of Christ just as Paul teaches in Romans 6

I understand that as Paul said baptism in the name of Christ is the spiritual baptism that Jesus was to administer in the fact that according to Paul who was taught by the Spirit that it is in the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ (Acts 2:38) that God does his grace his transforming work to change my dead in sin to alive in Christ (born again of water and spirit) in this baptism in Christ name that Paul goes into great detail in Romans 6 to get us to understand this. Therefore it is a spiritual baptism in water that GOD is doing his gracious work in redeeming us.

You asked me "Is not turning to God in the moment you realize you need him,
and turning your life over to Him, not the moment of conversion?
Why baptism? (whatever that means)" and I have to let Peter answer you that question
Acts 2:37-40
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

They heard the the gospel of Christ and were pricked in their heart the believe in Jesus asked what to do to be redeemed and Peter told them that they must repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin and they shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (the indwelling spirit) and Paul explain what happens in that baptism in Romans 6

So to answer your question I do not see how you can say one is saved by faith only when we have these other scriptures dealing with the subject of salvation. I feel we should apply all of the scriptures that deal with salvation and not just get hung up on one aspect of the subject of salvation.

 

[St. SteVen]

So to answer your question I do not see how you can say one is saved by faith only when we have these other scriptures dealing with the subject of salvation. I feel we should apply all of the scriptures that deal with salvation and not just get hung up on one aspect of the subject of salvation.

Were the Apostles baptized in Jesus' name?
I don't recall any biblical evidence, except for the Apostle Paul.
And the baptism Jesus asked the Apostles to wait for was the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.

Acts 1:4-5 NIV
On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command:
“Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about.
5 For John baptized with[a] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with[b] the Holy Spirit.”

 

[BlessedPeace]

How about this? I'd have thought to name the site God questions. I enjoy their articles.

Why had the believers in Samaria not received the Holy Spirit (Acts 8)? | GotQuestions.org

Why had the believers in Samaria not received the Holy Spirit (Acts 8)? Why did the believers in Acts 8 have to wait for Peter and John to come before they could receive the Holy Spirit?

www.gotquestions.org

The presence of Peter and John kept the early church unified. Remember, there was great animosity between Jews and Samaritans (John 4:9). If the church in Samaria had begun on its own, with no connection to the “Jewish” church, the church in Jerusalem would never have accepted it. The Samaritans were known historically as corruptors of Judaism (John 4:20). So God made sure that Peter and John, apostles and Jews from Jerusalem, were present to witness the gift of the Spirit given to the Samaritans. God’s message: the church in Samaria was no heretical start-up. The Samaritans were part of the same church that had been started in Jerusalem, and they were filled with the same Spirit (see Galatians 3:28). Peter and John were eyewitnesses. Their testimony was clear: what happened in Samaria was not a separate religious movement. In this way, God prevented the early church from immediately dividing into different sects.

The Lord took pains to ensure the unity of the early church. Jesus had commanded the gospel to be preached in Samaria (Acts 1:8). Philip the evangelist obeyed that command, and God blessed.

 

[St. SteVen]

How about this? I'd have thought to name the site God questions. I enjoy their articles.

Thanks for the research and reply to this topic. I appreciate it.

The response from the God Questions site is a respectful and reasonable analysis of the situation from a Cessationist position.
Which would be my problem with it. I imagine that if you questioned them about the Baptism with the Holy Spirit, they would also
take the Cessationist position. Cessationism is the position that the miracle gifts ended with the Apostles.
So, as a general definition they would discount what they call "sign gifts", tongues, specifically.

The opposing view to Cessationism is Continuationism, the belief that the miracle gifts have NOT ceased, but have continued
and NOT ended with the Apostles. I Corinthians chapter 12 tells us that these spiritual gifts (manifestations) are body parts given for
the church, the Body of Christ. See I Corinthians 12:12-14 pasted below. Cessationism makes the Body of Christ an amputee
by removing the body parts they deem to be "sign gifts". Probably an apologetic created to explain why the modern
church is NOT manifesting miracle gifts. Rather than hit their knees, they hit the books to formulate a response. IMHO

The text in question, Acts 8:14-17 (pasted below) tells us that the baptized believers in Samaria had not received the Holy Spirit,
and that they DID receive the Holy Spirit when the Apostle laid hands on them.

1) Those in Samaria were believers (had accepted the word of God)
2) They had received baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. (water baptism)
3) But the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them. (had not yet "come on" any of them?)
4) Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. (prayed for them)

This indicates an IMMEDIATE and OBSERVABLE evidence that they had received the Holy Spirit.
What would account for that?

Acts 8:14-17 NIV
When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria.
15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit,
16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

I Corinthians 12:12-14 NIV
Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ.
13 For we were all baptized by[a] one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—
and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.


@Hillsage

 

[Godslittleservant]

My question is if that is the baptism of the holy ghost then why did it differ from the Apostles or the house of Cornelius . In the one Where the spirit came upon the Apostles with signs to confirm the word there was no laying on of hands. When Philip who had hands laid on him to transfer that power went to the Samaritans he could not transfer or the spirit did not come upon them as it did the Apostles Philip had to call for Peter for him to transfer the power so that they could grow the church with the signs of confirming toe word so Philip and the Apostles could go to the outer regions of the world making new disciples.

The only other time recorded that the spirit fell on anyone as it did the Apostles in Acts 2 was on Cornelius in Acts 10 and it is clear there that it was a sign to the Jews that the gentiles were to be add to the church. I do not see anywhere recorded that it happened any different and it is the spirit coming upon to empower men to confirm the word as it was newly being spread as seen in Mark 16:17-20
The bible tells why the signs were needed it says it was to confirm that the word was truly from God.
Mark 16:17-20
17 These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
19 So then, when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God. 20 And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them, and confirmed the word by the signs that followed.]

So if I am reading this wrong please show me my error. If the baptism of the holy ghost was on the Apostles in Acts 2 then it could not be the same as one the others that received laying on of hands.The signs were not promised to everyone but the indwelling spirit was that might be what John the baptist was referring to because it is the promise to all Acts 2:39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself."and the way we are told to receive the indwelling spirit is told us in Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

I could go on and on with this topic but it is a study all in itself that needs a new thread.

 

[David in NJ]

My question is if that is the baptism of the holy ghost then why did it differ from the Apostles or the house of Cornelius . In the one Where the spirit came upon the Apostles with signs to confirm the word there was no laying on of hands. When Philip who had hands laid on him to transfer that power went to the Samaritans he could not transfer or the spirit did not come upon them as it did the Apostles Philip had to call for Peter for him to transfer the power so that they could grow the church with the signs of confirming toe word so Philip and the Apostles could go to the outer regions of the world making new disciples.

The only other time recorded that the spirit fell on anyone as it did the Apostles in Acts 2 was on Cornelius in Acts 10 and it is clear there that it was a sign to the Jews that the gentiles were to be add to the church. I do not see anywhere recorded that it happened any different and it is the spirit coming upon to empower men to confirm the word as it was newly being spread as seen in Mark 16:17-20
The bible tells why the signs were needed it says it was to confirm that the word was truly from God.
Mark 16:17-20
17 These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
19 So then, when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God. 20 And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them, and confirmed the word by the signs that followed.]

So if I am reading this wrong please show me my error. If the baptism of the holy ghost was on the Apostles in Acts 2 then it could not be the same as one the others that received laying on of hands.The signs were not promised to everyone but the indwelling spirit was that might be what John the baptist was referring to because it is the promise to all Acts 2:39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself."and the way we are told to receive the indwelling spirit is told us in Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

I could go on and on with this topic but it is a study all in itself that needs a new thread.

All the details are in Gospel of John, Acts and 1 Corinthians

If you rely on human intellect to understand then you will fall short.

 

[St. SteVen]

My question is if that is the baptism of the holy ghost then why did it differ from the Apostles or the house of Cornelius . In the one Where the spirit came upon the Apostles with signs to confirm the word there was no laying on of hands. When Philip who had hands laid on him to transfer that power went to the Samaritans he could not transfer or the spirit did not come upon them as it did the Apostles Philip had to call for Peter for him to transfer the power so that they could grow the church with the signs of confirming toe word so Philip and the Apostles could go to the outer regions of the world making new disciples.

That's a great question actually. Thanks.

Here's what it means to me. We like to put the Holy Spirit in a box.
We want to know how he works and what he should do.
Unfortunately, the Holy Spirit doesn't work that way.

Jesus informed us of this in John chapter three, while speaking to Nicodemus.
"The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from
or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”[a] - John 3:8 NIV

What I see in Acts is that as soon as the Apostles thought they knew how to handle the Holy Spirit, he changed.
- Jesus informed the Apostles to wait in Jerusalem
- The initial outpouring happened without warning on Pentecost (Sunday) with tongues as evidence.
- Those who repented and were baptized on Pentecost ALSO received the Holy Spirit (probably with tongues as evidence)
- The water baptized believers in Samaria did NOT receive the Holy Spirit with tongues as evidence.
- The Apostles had to go lay hands on them before they received the Holy Spirit with tongues as evidence.
- At the house of Cornelius, the Holy Spirit came while Peter was still preaching.
- When Ananias, not an Apostle, laid hands on Saul (Paul) he received the Holy Spirit. (probably with tongues as evidence)
- When Paul baptized the believers in Ephesus they did not receive the Holy Spirit UNTIL Paul laid hands on them.
As you can see, there is no predictable pattern here.

NOTE: When I write "receive the Holy Spirit" in the list above, I am referring to the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.
Every believer receives the indwelling WHEN they believe. the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is a subsequent experience. (usually)
Unpredictable as always. - LOL


@Hillsage

 

[St. SteVen]

I could go on and on with this topic but it is a study all in itself that needs a new thread.

That's a good idea.
You should start a topic with your questions. That would help many here. Thanks.

 

[St. SteVen]

All the details are in Gospel of John, Acts and 1 Corinthians

If you rely on human intellect to understand then you will fall short.

To be fair, I think those who have not worked their way through it yet probably need some guidance.
Let's help them. Thanks.

 

[St. SteVen]

So if I am reading this wrong please show me my error. If the baptism of the holy ghost was on the Apostles in Acts 2 then it could not be the same as one the others that received laying on of hands.The signs were not promised to everyone but the indwelling spirit was that might be what John the baptist was referring to because it is the promise to all Acts 2:39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself."and the way we are told to receive the indwelling spirit is told us in Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

More good questions.
This doesn't always work, but sometimes it helps to see whether the Spirit is "in" or "on" the person(s).
Notice the use of the word "on" in these examples. Usually indicates an outpouring of spiritual power over the person.
Don't miss the OT references at the bottom. Before Pentecost, obviously.

Acts 2:3 NIV
They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them.

Acts 10:44 NIV
While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.

Acts 11:15 NIV
“As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.

Numbers 11:25 NIV
Then the Lord came down in the cloud and spoke with him, and he took some of the power of the Spirit that was on him
and put it on the seventy elders. When the Spirit rested on them, they prophesied—but did not do so again.

Numbers 24:2 NIV
When Balaam looked out and saw Israel encamped tribe by tribe, the Spirit of God came on him

• Numbers 24:2
  When Balaam looked out and saw Israel encamped tribe by tribe, the Spirit of God came on him
  
  
• Judges 3:10
  The Spirit of the Lord came on him, so that he became Israel’s judge and went to war. The Lord gave Cushan-Rishathaim king of Aram into the hands of Othniel, who overpowered him.
  
  
• Judges 6:34
  Then the Spirit of the Lord came on Gideon, and he blew a trumpet, summoning the Abiezrites to follow him.
  
  
• Judges 11:29
  Then the Spirit of the Lord came on Jephthah. He crossed Gilead and Manasseh, passed through Mizpah of Gilead, and from there he advanced against the Ammonites.
  
  
• Judges 15:14
  As he approached Lehi, the Philistines came toward him shouting. The Spirit of the Lord came powerfully upon him. The ropes on his arms became like charred flax, and the bindings dropped from his hands.
  
  
• 1 Samuel 16:13
  So Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the presence of his brothers, and from that day on the Spirit of the Lord came powerfully upon David. Samuel then went to Ramah.
  
  
• 1 Samuel 16:23
  Whenever the spirit from God came on Saul, David would take up his lyre and play. Then relief would come to Saul; he would feel better, and the evil spiritwould leave him.
  
  
• 1 Samuel 18:10
  The next day an evil spirit from God came forcefully onSaul. He was prophesying in his house, while David was playing the lyre, as he usually did. Saul had a spear in his hand
  
  
• 1 Samuel 19:9
  But an evil spirit from the Lord came onSaul as he was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand. While David was playing the lyre,
  
  
• 1 Samuel 19:20
  so he sent men to capture him. But when they saw a group of prophets prophesying, with Samuel standing there as their leader, the Spirit of God came onSaul’s men, and they also prophesied.
  
  
• 1 Samuel 19:23
  So Saul went to Naioth at Ramah. But the Spirit of God came even on him, and he walked along prophesying until he cameto Naioth.
  
  
• 1 Chronicles 12:18
  Then the Spirit came onAmasai, chief of the Thirty, and he said: “We are yours, David! We are with you, son of Jesse! Success, success to you, and success to those who help you, for your God will help you.” So David received them and made them leaders of his raiding bands.
  
  
• 2 Chronicles 15:1
  The Spirit of God came on Azariah son of Oded.
  
  
• 2 Chronicles 20:14
  Then the Spirit of the Lord came on Jahaziel son of Zechariah, the son of Benaiah, the son of Jeiel, the son of Mattaniah, a Levite and descendant of Asaph, as he stood in the assembly.
  
  
• 2 Chronicles 24:20
  Then the Spirit of God came on Zechariah son of Jehoiada the priest. He stood before the people and said, “This is what God says: ‘Why do you disobey the Lord’s commands? You will not prosper. Because you have forsaken the Lord, he has forsaken you.’”
  
  
• Isaiah 66:2
  Has not my hand made all these things, and so they came into being?” declares the Lord. “These are the ones I look on with favor: those who are humble and contrite in spirit, and who tremble at my word.
  
  
• Ezekiel 11:5
  Then the Spirit of the Lord came on me, and he told me to say: “This is what the Lord says: That is what you are saying, you leaders in Israel, but I know what is going through your mind.

 

[David in NJ]

To be fair, I think those who have not worked their way through it yet probably need some guidance.
Let's help them. Thanks.

i am a firm believer in reading scripture and that applies to us all = "seek and you will find"

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit?
Just to be clear, I do not question whether the believers in Samaria had received
the "indwelling" Spirit when they believed. They were missing something else.

Acts 8:14-17 NIV
When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria.
15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit,
16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here are the facts:
1) Those in Samaria were believers (had accepted the word of God)
2) They had received baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. (water baptism)
3) But the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them. (had not yet "come on" any of them?)
4) Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. (prayed for them)

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit?
They were water baptized believers in the Lord Jesus.

- There was evidence that they were believers. (as stated in the text)
- There was evidence that they had been water baptized. (as stated in the text)
- There was, however, no evidence that they had received the Holy Spirit. (as stated in the text)

What evidence were the Apostles looking for?
"Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit." - Acts 8:17 NIV
("When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit," - vs 15)
This text doesn't tell us. We'll have to look elsewhere.

Let me restate...
I do not question whether the believers in Samaria had received the "indwelling" Spirit when they believed.
They were missing something else. That something else is the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. (the Spirit "on" them)

Continued in Post #2

The reason is a complicated theological reason.

Peter had the keys of the kingdom.

At Pentecost, only the upper room received the infilling of the spirit which was brand new and is what makes one born again.

Peter preached the first Christian sermon to jews- having the keys and unlocking the door for the gospel to go to the Jews.

Peter was the one sent to Samaria and pronounced Samaritans truly were being saved and thus infilled.

It was with Cornelius, that Peter went to, that the door for the gospel to go to the gentiles was unlocked.

Remember this was an historic time. The church at its birth consisted only those of the upper room. It had to go forward from there. Messiah was not popularly accepted in Samaria and gentile worlds. Jews had to hear Jesus was truly Messiah indeed and had to die.

Samaritans and Gentiles heard the gospel without the promised Messiah portion (which was for Isarael only). So we see Peter fulfilling the command of Jesus in Matt. 28 " Go make disciples in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and to the worl (gentiles)".

 

[Godslittleservant]

The reason is a complicated theological reason.

Peter had the keys of the kingdom.

At Pentecost, only the upper room received the infilling of the spirit which was brand new and is what makes one born again.

Peter preached the first Christian sermon to jews- having the keys and unlocking the door for the gospel to go to the Jews.

Peter was the one sent to Samaria and pronounced Samaritans truly were being saved and thus infilled.

It was with Cornelius, that Peter went to, that the door for the gospel to go to the gentiles was unlocked.

Remember this was an historic time. The church at its birth consisted only those of the upper room. It had to go forward from there. Messiah was not popularly accepted in Samaria and gentile worlds. Jews had to hear Jesus was truly Messiah indeed and had to die.

Samaritans and Gentiles heard the gospel without the promised Messiah portion (which was for Isarael only). So we see Peter fulfilling the command of Jesus in Matt. 28 " Go make disciples in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and to the worl (gentiles)".

You said "At Pentecost, only the upper room received the infilling of the spirit which was brand new and is what makes one born again.'
I see what you are saying but I would say it more like this. At Pentecost the spirit was poured out on the Apostles it does not say it was the indwelling but seems to indicate more of the power of signs to confirm the word. The indwelling spirit does not make one born again but is given as a deposit to the born again christian

You said " .Peter preached the first Christian sermon to jews- having the keys and unlocking the door for the gospel to go to the Jews."
this I agree with


You said "Peter was the one sent to Samaria and pronounced Samaritans truly were being saved and thus infilled.'
This I can not agree with the way it is said. I would have to say Philip was sent to the Samaritans and he preached the gospel and they believed and was baptized in Christ and received the indwelling spirit as the one in Acts 2 did the same sermon the same out come. Philip had hands laid on him by the Apostles to go and spread the gospel as we read in Acts 6 but when it came time to give the gift to the Samaritans so they could further grow the church he had not the ability to pass it forth therefore he had to call one the Apostles to transfer the gift.

The rest of your post is close to what I would have said maybe just a little different but the same jest.

 

[St. SteVen]

i am a firm believer in reading scripture and that applies to us all = "seek and you will find"

I agree for the most part.
When I switched from the evangelical church of my upbringing to a Pentecostal church, I had a lot to learn.
Being raised evangelical gave me good tools to do that. But there was a lot to unlearn in reference to the gifts.
A Cessationist religious upbringing can be crippling spiritually, again in reference to manifestations (gifts) of the Spirit.
I can see those on the forum that are struggling through the same things I did.
I wish I had someone like me to help back then.

 

[David in NJ]

I agree for the most part.
When I switched from the evangelical church of my upbringing to a Pentecostal church, I had a lot to learn.
Being raised evangelical gave me good tools to do that. But there was a lot to unlearn in reference to the gifts.
A Cessationist religious upbringing can be crippling spiritually, again in reference to manifestations (gifts) of the Spirit.
I can see those on the forum that are struggling through the same things I did.
I wish I had someone like me to help back then.

i was raised FULLY Catholic

At the age of 23 i received the Gospel in my heart and was Born-Again by the WORD that lives forever.

Then i had to SEEK, PRAY and SEEK the Lord concerning cessation for i wanted to KNOW the Truth.

i use to listen to John McArthur and others as well.

Took a little time but i searched the Scriptures on my knees, always praying and always receiving from the LORD.

We all must make a decision as to who has the Final Say = if you know what i mean!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You said "At Pentecost, only the upper room received the infilling of the spirit which was brand new and is what makes one born again.'
I see what you are saying but I would say it more like this. At Pentecost the spirit was poured out on the Apostles it does not say it was the indwelling but seems to indicate more of the power of signs to confirm the word. The indwelling spirit does not make one born again but is given as a deposit to the born again christian

One cannot be a Christian without the infilling of the Holy Spirit. That is what is meant by being baptized in the Spirit.

1. John 14:17
   Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. Romans 8:11
   But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
3. 1 Corinthians 3:16
   Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

The Spirit on dwelling people was not new. It was teh indwelling of the Spirit that makes the church, the church. The external signs at Pentecost were just a testimony oof the Spirit indwelling believers.

Anmd yes while Philip did preach tpo the Samaritans, it was Peter (with Jiohn) that gave the Spirit as Peter held the keys of the kingdom. Keys open doors and Peter was tasked to open the doors .

You said "Peter was the one sent to Samaria and pronounced Samaritans truly were being saved and thus infilled.'
This I can not agree with the way it is said. I would have to say Philip was sent to the Samaritans and he preached the gospel and they believed and was baptized in Christ and received the indwelling spirit as the one in Acts 2 did the same sermon the same out come. Philip had hands laid on him by the Apostles to go and spread the gospel as we read in Acts 6 but when it came time to give the gift to the Samaritans so they could further grow the church he had not the ability to pass it forth therefore he had to call one the Apostles to transfer the gift.

Acts 8:14-17

King James Version

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14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

The book of Acts is a historical transisitional book. From the law to grace and from the Jews alone to Jew and Gentile in one body.

So thigs had to progress . Once the Samaritans received the Holy spirit, all saved subsequently immediately received the Spirit upon salvation.