Who's truth? If they agree with you they are right? If they disagree with you they are wrong?FHII said:
How do you know YOU stumbled onto the truth??
Why I believe (true) Catholicism will some day rule the world
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How do you know YOU stumbled onto the truth??
I know, but when i say Rule, i mean soemthing different from what others seem to think...kepha31 said:
and yeh, that Inquisition killed millions nonsene is REALLY bizarre. that Boettner guy who purported to be telling all about the Catholic Church, that dumb book he wrote said something like 50 million! I heard the population of all of Europoe at that time was not even 50 million
it is so amazing how willing people are to LIE about the Catholic Church... but hey, look what they did to its Founder....
Back to the OP. Who is traveling the world right now, proclaiming that the Lord is with him, and that he is the only logical person with the moral authority and mandate to head the New World Order? Yes, beginning with the previous popes John Paul II, and Benedict XI, and now with the current Pontiff Francis I , (his visit recently to the US Congress and the UN being a covert campaign for election) the Vatican is placing itself as the only viable alternative to the capitalist corrupt systems that have enslaved and captured the people of the world. Scaliafan is right. Catholic Rome will rule the world one day, and likely very soon. The NWO will have a religious face, and that face will be Roman. Yet Jesus said "my kingdom is not of this world!
And because there is within his church’s dogma, laws and canons justifying the destruction of ‘heretics’, then we can be assured that when Rome rules again, we can expect a return to the same persecutions that so marked the dark ages. Anyone who does not submit to this UN sanctioned religious authority will be anathema in the eyes of Rome, and become enemies to the state.
And because there is within his church’s dogma, laws and canons justifying the destruction of ‘heretics’, then we can be assured that when Rome rules again, we can expect a return to the same persecutions that so marked the dark ages. Anyone who does not submit to this UN sanctioned religious authority will be anathema in the eyes of Rome, and become enemies to the state.
you are just so wrong on so many things.brakelite said:
The reason i said that some day the Church will rule is b/c Jesus is coming again... and Jesus has only ONE Church
and despite all the human corruption and evil in said Church, He promised that He would be with us until the End... Mt 28:20... and so He is... He is Present in His Church 24/7 irrespective of the fact that he is surrounded by sinners
of course, if you B-lite, visited, the sinners therein would get some much needed enlightenment... and it wouldn't be so bad... being surrounded by the likes of you
Act_9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Now how could it be that the very church that insists it is teh one created by Christ , would also be the very church who is pesecuting Him, You know a house divided against itself cannot stand, or
Luk_11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.
So how can Christ be agaisnt Himself???
Or is it as written
Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
So tell us whom is your father??
Mat_25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.Mungo said:
Lets look at Saul,
Act_8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
And His encounter with Jesus,
Act 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
So you see its not hard,
When your church murderd the Jews, they persecuted Christ, and speaking of Hate, they did it because the Jews killed Jesus or so they say.
When your church murdered and tortued christians who refused to joing teh beast. it persecuted Jesus.
When your church covenants ripped unborn children our of unmarried women, it persecuted Jesus
Even to day as your priests and pastors from all the other denominations rape young boys and girls thinking God cannot see, it persecutes Jesus
While your Pope stands there in an authority not given to Him,Usurped is the word, he persecutes Jesus
It is the anitchrist, how can one love a religion that has done so much to destroy the good works of Jesus, yet many do and think its all ok.
Talking again of Hate, its what your religion has always being good at it hates all that oppose it.
Are you referring to the acts of individual Christians or the official Church policy?mjrhealth said:
If the former then it's not the Church persecuting Christ.
If the latter then some evidence is needed not just your opinions.
Religious liberty, freedom of conscience. Coming from a Europe that was just emerging from over 1000 years of papal tyranny the founding fathers of your nation were establishing a nation with an exclusively protestant ethic, the freedom to worship in accordance to ones conscience (and the freedom not to worship if one so chose) even though it took some time for even protestants to learn. (I'm thinking Sunday blue laws). Read the history of Roger Williams and you will be well on the way to understand my perspective on how to deal with "heretics". Williams was a true American hero. On that note you now have government sanctioned pastors ready to be servants to martial law and demand their congregants to obey govt in emergencies. They have sold out their people big time.tom55 said:
We as Christians have far more to fear from governments with a religious agenda (including 'Christian' agendas...read again Revelation 13:11-17) than any secular government. Interestingly, history tells us that Christian communities thrived very well under the rule of such as Genghis Khan, because he was neutral in matters of religion. (Although he was certainly less than tolerant with those who opposed him politically.)
No its not my opinion, but how men can mock the very name of the one they say they love, how they demean Him and slander His name in teh name of religion and do it allas if it is a good thing, but God says otherwise.
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Your church has already being judged and all who are in her
Rev_18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
Rev 18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
Rev 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
Rev 18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
He has not and will not foget what she has done to them that are His.
That is not my opinion.
Wild rant? time you open your eyes and mind to the truth and it will make you free as Jesus said....the pope is not the answer, the Roman church is not the answer, as they are fallible as human pagan organizations...time to get with the Bible and never mind the pagan Roman doctrines.
The Papal Bull, 'Exsurge Domine,' of Jun 15, 1520, condemned the errors of Martin Luther and his followers. In the translation of this Bull that , Pope Leo X repudiates the following Protestant teaching:Mungo said:
#33. That heretics be burned is against the will of the Spirit.
This proclamation by Pope Leo X proves the Catholic Church taught that the burning of heretics was acceptable to God, and this practice had become church policy. Responsibility for this practice cannot be shifted to the civil authorities, as has been suggested by many.
After the above bull had been in circulation 2 months, the following bull was issued...this is clearly church policy, but perhaps you don't consider confiscation of all property ,titles, priveleges etc persecution.brakelite said:
I [Here the Pope recounts his previous Bull Exsurge Domine and continues]
II We have been informed that after this previous missive had been exhibited in public and the interval or intervals it prescribed had elapsed [60 days]—and we hereby give solemn notice to all faithful Christians that these intervals have and are elapsed—many of those who had followed the errors of Martin took cognisance of our missive and its warnings and injunctions; the spirit of a saner counsel brought them back to themselves, they confessed their errors and abjured the heresy at our instance, and by returning to the true Catholic faith obtained the blessing of absolution with which the self-same messengers had been empowered; and in several states and localities of the said Germany the books and writings of the said Martin were publicly burned, as we had enjoined.
Nevertheless Martin himself—and it gives us grievous sorrow and perplexity to say this—the slave of a depraved mind, has scorned to revoke his errors within the prescribed interval and to send us word of such revocation, or to come to us himself; nay, like a stone of stumbling, he has feared not to write and preach worse things than before against us and this Holy See and the Catholic faith, and to lead others on to do the same.
He has now been declared a heretic; and so also others, whatever their authority and rank, who have cared nought of their own salvation but publicly and in all men's eyes become followers of Martin's pernicious and heretical sect, and given him openly and publicly their help, counsel and favour, encouraging him in their midst in his disobedience and obstinacy, or hindering the publication of our said missive: such men have incurred the punishments set out in that missive, and are to be treated rightfully as heretics and avoided by all faithful Christians, as the Apostle says (Titus iii. 10-11).
III. Our purpose is that such men should rightfully be ranked with Martin and other accursed heretics and excommunicates, and that even as they have ranged themselves with the obstinacy in sinning of the said Martin, they shall likewise share his punishments and his name, by bearing with them everywhere the title "Lutheran" and the punishments it incurs.
Our previous instructions were so clear and so effectively publicised and we shall adhere so strictly to our present decrees and declarations, that they will lack no proof, warning or citation.
Our decrees which follow are passed against Martin and others who follow him in the obstinacy of his depraved and damnable purpose, as also against those who defend and protect him with a military bodyguard, and do not fear to support him with their own resources or in any other way, and have and do presume to offer and afford help, counsel and favour toward him. All their names, surnames and rank—however lofty and dazzling their dignity may be—we wish to be taken as included in these decrees with the same effect as if they were individually listed and could be so listed in their publication, which must be furthered with an energy to match their contents.
On all these we decree the sentences of excommunication, of anathema, of our perpetual condemnation and interdict; of privation of dignities, honours and property on them and their descendants, and of declared unfitness for such possessions; of the confiscation of their goods and of the crime of treason; and these and the other sentences, censures and punishments which are inflicted by canon law on heretics and are set out in our aforesaid missive, we decree to have fallen on all these men to their damnation.
IV We add to our present declaration, by our Apostolic authority, that states, territories, camps, towns and places in which these men have temporarily lived or chanced to visit, along with their possessions—cities which house cathedrals and metropolitans, monasteries and other religious and sacred places, privileged or unprivileged—one and all are placed under our ecclesiastical interdict, while this interdict lasts, no pretext of Apostolic Indulgence (except in cases the law allows, and even there, as it were, with the doors shut and those under excommunication and interdict excluded) shall avail to allow the celebration of mass and the other divine offices. We prescribe and enjoin that the men in question are everywhere to be denounced publicly as excommunicated, accursed, condemned, interdicted, deprived of possessions and incapable of owning them. They are to be strictly shunned by all faithful Christians.
Pius IX issued a list or Syllabus of Errors. The following statements are from that syllabus and are condemned as being in error:
15. Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true.-- Allocution Maxima quidem, June 9, 1862; Damnatio Multiplices inter, June 10, 1851.
16. Man may, in the observance of any religion whatever, find the way of eternal salvation, and arrive at eternal salvation.-- Encyclical Qui pluribus, Nov. 9, 1846.
17. Good hope at least is to be entertained of the eternal salvation of all those who are not at all in the true Church of Christ.--Encyclical Quanto conficiamur, Aug. 10, 1863, etc.
18. Protestantism is nothing more than another form of the same true Christian religion, in which form it is given to please God equally as in the Catholic Church.--Encyclical Noscitis, Dec. 8, 1849.
24. The Church has not the power of using force, nor has she any temporal power, direct or indirect.—Apostolic Letter "Ad Apostolicae," Aug. 22, 1851.
55. The Church ought to be separated from the State, and the State from the Church.--Allocution Acerbissimum, Sept. 27, 1852.
Because the above are errors, Pius IX is actually saying:
15. No man is entitled to freedom of religion.
16-18. Salvation is found only in the Catholic Church, and not in any other denomination, to include Protestantism.
24. The Catholic Church may employ force to achieve her ends.
55. Church and State should be united as one.
Perhaps forcing another to observe Catholic rites and ceremonies is not persecution in the mind of some Catholics.....but it is most assuredly policy to do so....perhaps not in the present social climate where Catholicism is a minority, but in the future when the RCC is the guiding light for the NWO, then we can most certainly expect the above tenets of dogma and religious oppression and the suppression of religious freedom will be repeated.
15. Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true.-- Allocution Maxima quidem, June 9, 1862; Damnatio Multiplices inter, June 10, 1851.
16. Man may, in the observance of any religion whatever, find the way of eternal salvation, and arrive at eternal salvation.-- Encyclical Qui pluribus, Nov. 9, 1846.
17. Good hope at least is to be entertained of the eternal salvation of all those who are not at all in the true Church of Christ.--Encyclical Quanto conficiamur, Aug. 10, 1863, etc.
18. Protestantism is nothing more than another form of the same true Christian religion, in which form it is given to please God equally as in the Catholic Church.--Encyclical Noscitis, Dec. 8, 1849.
24. The Church has not the power of using force, nor has she any temporal power, direct or indirect.—Apostolic Letter "Ad Apostolicae," Aug. 22, 1851.
55. The Church ought to be separated from the State, and the State from the Church.--Allocution Acerbissimum, Sept. 27, 1852.
Because the above are errors, Pius IX is actually saying:
15. No man is entitled to freedom of religion.
16-18. Salvation is found only in the Catholic Church, and not in any other denomination, to include Protestantism.
24. The Catholic Church may employ force to achieve her ends.
55. Church and State should be united as one.
Perhaps forcing another to observe Catholic rites and ceremonies is not persecution in the mind of some Catholics.....but it is most assuredly policy to do so....perhaps not in the present social climate where Catholicism is a minority, but in the future when the RCC is the guiding light for the NWO, then we can most certainly expect the above tenets of dogma and religious oppression and the suppression of religious freedom will be repeated.
Religious liberty and freedom of conscience DOES NOT deal with heretics. It does just the OPPOSITE. Freedom of Conscience* is the same as being heretical**. It holds NO ONE accountable for their false beliefs (Mormons, Muslims, brakelite, Westboro Baptist, Churches that perform gay marriages). All the aforementioned have "the freedom to worship in accordance to ones conscience" but that doesn't make them right in their beliefs OR teachings.brakelite said:
Religious liberty and freedom of conscience lets everyone believe what they want even when they are CLEARLY wrong (heretical).
Our founding fathers did not give us 'freedom to worship in accordance to ones conscience OR the freedom not to worship if one so chooses'. What they did do say is that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.." which means they will not establish a State sanctioned church AND we have freedom to exercise our religion with no government interference. Our founding fathers believed that religious liberty is an inalienable right or natural right given to us by God, not by government. Therefor they were not GIVING us anything since we already had it and it was given to us by a higher power.
Heresy is a sin. It is destroys and weakens the Christian faith which has proven painfully true by the Reformation. Scripture says there will be false prophets among the people and false teachers among us who secretly shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. How can one have a "damnable heresy" and "bring upon themselves swift destruction" if everyone is at liberty to believe what they want and have freedom of conscience doing so?? How do you deal with those people and who has the authority to deal with them and call them heretical??? We also know thru scripture that many shall follow their deadly ways by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
Scripture tells us to report a heretic to the church and if they neglect to hear the church treat them as a heathen and a publican. Scripture tells us that the Church has the authority to call someone a heretic AND there is a punishment for it in this life and after we die.
So YOUR theory on dealing with heretics is OPPOSITE of scripture.
*Freedom of conscience or ideas is the freedom of an individual to hold or consider a fact, viewpoint, or thought, independent of others' viewpoints
**Heresy is adherence to a religious opinion or doctrine contrary to church dogma; dissent or deviation from a dominant theory, opinion, or practice; an opinion, doctrine, or practice contrary to the truth or to generally accepted beliefs or standards
Seriously???brakelite said:
#15, 16 and 17 Actually says that man can not embrace any religion that they feel (consider) is true (Islam, Buddhism etc. etc.) and obtain salvation thru that religion and only those that are in the true Church of Christ will obtain eternal salvation.
#18 ACTUALLY SAYS Protestantism is not a true Christian religion (because it does not bear the truth of Christ), which does not please God nor is it equal to the Catholic Church. (This is an accurate statement because Protestantism CAN NOT bear the truth when it has many DIFFERENT truths or beliefs.
#24 is in reference to Apostolic Letter "Ad Apostolicae," In this letter there was NO mention of physical force of which you seem to be implying. (You should read the letter before you comment on it).
#55 Render onto Ceaser what is Ceasers AND the government protects religious freedom. Romans 13:1-2, 6; 1 Peter 2:13–14 (no separation of church and state mentioned therein)
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