Why I could personally never chose to be Catholic

[Rollo Tamasi]

Ever meet a roman who didn't need another roman to tell you how wrong you are?
romans are never wrong, they're just dead in their walk with Christ.

 

[GodsGrace]

For 50 years you never heard the Bible read out loud during Mass?
You never had a chance to talk to a priest about your irrational fear of gong to hell?
Really?

You have to agree that hearing 1 reading from the O.T. and one from the letters and one from the gospels, is not the same as reading them in context and in full. The bible, as it's read at Mass makes no sense, especially in view of the fact that priest refuse to take advantage of the time at Mass to do teaching. And please don't tell me it's not a classroom. Father Packwa is very good at doing this on EWTN. (Did he pass away??)

As far as speaking to a priest back in the day...
They told you to go to Mass and confession and not to worry about anything.
You think they took the time like they would today? No way.

 

[APAK]

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him (1 Corinthians 8:6)
Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Thanks brother for the encouragement....Bless you and God keep you..

 

[Marymog]

If you are referring to the 2 billion Catholics around the world yes, they are relying on their church for salvation, with of course some exceptions.
And of course so are some protestants doing likewise. But you cleverly diverted my reply and refused to commit yourself to an answer to the main thrust of my post by throwing it back at me. Care to try again?
If I should in all faith and trust, kneel before my Maker and ask for a fish, what will He give me? If I should ask for wisdom, what will He give me? If I ask for His Spirit, what will He give me? If I ask to be led into all truth, what will He give me?

Hi brakelite,

I am not that clever of a person. No diversion from this old gal. You are asking questions that neither you or I can answer. Neither you or I KNOW what He will give you. I suspect you are referring to Matthew 7:7?

As I indicated before: You are a church of one. What makes your church any different than the catholic church or any protestant church? Are you even a church of one? Or are you a seventh day Adventist? By reading the post on your website it's hard to tell.

You are no different than any Church: You read and interpret scripture. You then write your interpretation on your website and this forum for all to read. You have your own dogma/doctrines written out. I suspect you live by them.

The men of the Catholic/protestant churches interpret scripture. They then write down their interpretation and put it in books AND on the internet for all to read. They have their own dogma/doctrines written out. They and billions of people live by them.

So I ask you again, which you cleverly dodged by pointing the finger at me : They rely on man....They kneel before God asking for wisdom and truth....They put their 'church' above God....They judge and condemn the thoughts, minds and motives of those that disagree? Don't you do the same thing???? Are you not "they" also? Do you not do all those things?

I would also like to know: If they kneel before their Maker and ask for a fish, what will He give them? If they should ask for wisdom, what will He give them? If they ask for His Spirit, what will He give them? If they ask to be led into all truth, what will He give them?

Curious Mary

 

[BreadOfLife]

Ever meet a roman who didn't need another roman to tell you how wrong you are?
romans are never wrong, they're just dead in their walk with Christ.

Why would you make such an asinine blanket statement about people who live in Rome - or ANY other region, for that matter??

 

[rstrats]

epostle1,
re: "You must be another blind cultist. SDA, or JW."

That is incorrect. And why did you include JWs since they are 1st day of the week observers?




re: "Matt. 28:1; Mark 16:2,9; John 20:1,19- the Gospel writers purposely reveal Jesus’ resurrection and appearances were on Sunday."

Again, those verses say nothing with regard to when the resurrection actually took place.



re: "Acts 20:7 – this text shows the apostolic tradition of gathering together to celebrate the Eucharist on Sunday, the 'first day of the week.' "

Previously discussed. Regardless of what was going on, it was only mentioning a single event. Scripture never again mentions anyone getting together on the first day of the week.





re: "1 Cor. 16:2 – Paul instructs the Corinthians to make contributions to the churches [actually for the saints in Jerusalem] 'on the first day of the week,'..."

But 1 Corinthians 16:2 does not say that NT Christians observed the first day of the week for their day of rest and worship. The text merely says that everyone should "lay by him in store" on the first day of the week. The Wemouth reads: "Let each of you put on one side and store up at his home". Ballantine’s Translation reads: "Let each of you lay up at home". The Syriac, on this passage reads: "Let every one of you lay aside and preserve at home". And the New Catholic Edition of the Bible reads: ".......let each one of you put aside at home and lay up whatever he has a mind to". This verse says nothing about going to church on the first day or even assembling together on the first day.





re: "Rev. 1:10 – John specifically points out that he witnesses the heavenly Eucharistic liturgy on Sunday, the Lord’s day, the new day of rest in Christ."

Again, no where in the verse does it say that the phrase "Lord's day" is referring to the 1st day of the week, or to any day of the week for that matter.

 

[brakelite]

You are no different than any Church: You read and interpret scripture. You then write your interpretation on your website and this forum for all to read. You have your own dogma/doctrines written out. I suspect you live by them.

Mary, I am very very different. I do not formulate my beliefs into a creed then demand the members of my church or anyone else, must adhere to them in order to fellowship with me, and in order to be saved. I do not demand that others must adhere by my interpretation in order to find truth. And I most certainly do not condemn others as 'heretics', try them before church councils, send them to prison, arrest their families and all those who may be supporting them, then execute them if they don't recant. Such has been the history of most Protestant churches from the 14th to the 18th century, and the Catholic church from its inception in the 4th century to the 18th century. It is my conviction that if the Catholic church regained her power once lost in civil affairs, she would once again revert to persecutions and the trial of heretics in order to compel others to conform to her doctrines. That Mary, is the difference between me and others.

 

[brakelite]

I would also like to know: If they kneel before their Maker and ask for a fish, what will He give them? If they should ask for wisdom, what will He give them? If they ask for His Spirit, what will He give them? If they ask to be led into all truth, what will He give them?

He would not give them anything that contradicted scripture, or His purposes for man. The RCC cannot boast that revelation to them via so called holy spirit is truth, because if those contradictions.
As for you personally, religious teachers read the Bible in the light of their own understanding and traditions; and the people do not search the Scriptures for themselves, and judge for themselves as to what is truth; but they yield up their judgment, and commit their souls to their leaders. This is still very true today, as in the past. People are still being blinded by tradition, also by what their leadership believe. No matter what beliefs others may hold, we should never surrender our thinking to others. We must study for ourselves and draw our own conclusions. We must remember too that our eternal lives are at stake. This is something that we cannot afford to trust to others. Does anyone care for your eternal destiny as much as you?
As for my own blog and my readers, I do not expect anyone to take my word for what I teach. I would be horrified if someone blindly accepted my teaching and never checked their Bibles whether or not my teachings were truth. I am not God...therefore I dare not boast of infallibility.

 

[aspen]

Ever meet a roman who didn't need another roman to tell you how wrong you are?
romans are never wrong, they're just dead in their walk with Christ.

Really? You see me as spiritually dead?

 

[aspen]

Mary, I am very very different. I do not formulate my beliefs into a creed then demand the members of my church or anyone else, must adhere to them in order to fellowship with me, and in order to be saved. I do not demand that others must adhere by my interpretation in order to find truth. And I most certainly do not condemn others as 'heretics', try them before church councils, send them to prison, arrest their families and all those who may be supporting them, then execute them if they don't recant. Such has been the history of most Protestant churches from the 14th to the 18th century, and the Catholic church from its inception in the 4th century to the 18th century. It is my conviction that if the Catholic church regained her power once lost in civil affairs, she would once again revert to persecutions and the trial of heretics in order to compel others to conform to her doctrines. That Mary, is the difference between me and others.

Ok.....

So you were born recently.
If you were born in the early centuries of Christianity, you would have a different worldview on how to handle heresy and what constituted a relationship with Christ.

Just to let you know, Catholics born recently also have a different view about how to deal with heresy

 

[Marymog]

Mary, I am very very different. I do not formulate my beliefs into a creed then demand the members of my church or anyone else, must adhere to them in order to fellowship with me, and in order to be saved. I do not demand that others must adhere by my interpretation in order to find truth. And I most certainly do not condemn others as 'heretics', try them before church councils, send them to prison, arrest their families and all those who may be supporting them, then execute them if they don't recant. Such has been the history of most Protestant churches from the 14th to the 18th century, and the Catholic church from its inception in the 4th century to the 18th century. It is my conviction that if the Catholic church regained her power once lost in civil affairs, she would once again revert to persecutions and the trial of heretics in order to compel others to conform to her doctrines. That Mary, is the difference between me and others.

Hi,

So you don't read and interpret scripture, write your interpretation on your website and this forum for all to read and have your own dogma/doctrines written out?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

He would not give them anything that contradicted scripture, or His purposes for man. The RCC cannot boast that revelation to them via so called holy spirit is truth, because if those contradictions.
As for you personally, religious teachers read the Bible in the light of their own understanding and traditions; and the people do not search the Scriptures for themselves, and judge for themselves as to what is truth; but they yield up their judgment, and commit their souls to their leaders. This is still very true today, as in the past. People are still being blinded by tradition, also by what their leadership believe. No matter what beliefs others may hold, we should never surrender our thinking to others. We must study for ourselves and draw our own conclusions. We must remember too that our eternal lives are at stake. This is something that we cannot afford to trust to others. Does anyone care for your eternal destiny as much as you?
As for my own blog and my readers, I do not expect anyone to take my word for what I teach. I would be horrified if someone blindly accepted my teaching and never checked their Bibles whether or not my teachings were truth. I am not God...therefore I dare not boast of infallibility.

I guess no one can boast revelation to themselves via so called holy spirit is truth because we all have contradictions

Blinded by tradition? You mean the tradition that scripture tells us to hold fast to??

Lol...I would be horrified also. At least we agree on something.

When interpreting scripture where does opinion stop and dogma begin?

What makes your church any different than the catholic church or any protestant church? Are you even a church of one? Or are you a seventh day Adventist? By reading the post on your website it's hard to tell.

Mary

 

[mjrhealth]

Blinded by tradition? You mean the tradition that scripture tells us to hold fast to??

What this one

Mar_7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
Mar_7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
Mar_7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

and this one

Mat_15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

 

[brakelite]

Ok.....

So you were born recently.
If you were born in the early centuries of Christianity, you would have a different worldview on how to handle heresy and what constituted a relationship with Christ.

Just to let you know, Catholics born recently also have a different view about how to deal with heresy

Jesus roundly condemned the disciples for suggesting that fire from heaven be brought down upon the heads of heretics in their day. If later Christians thought differently, then it is not because they knew better, but because grew further away from truth and the principles of religious liberty. Yes, I am sure that most individual Catholics today repudiate any idea of condemning those who disagree with them...except maybe BOL and epostle1. But I am not so sure about the church itself, and the curia that runs it. Policies formulated in centuries past from the days of such as Augustine and Aquinas, developed into full-fledged canons that justified the eradication of heretics. According to the church's own rules, that previous councils' decisions cannot be annulled, does that not mean those principles and policies still endure to this day?
I know VaticanII went a long way toward advancing religious liberty, but from what I read of that decision, it was very much at the instigation of American bishops...the European delegates and the Vatican itself was not so much in favor.

 

[brakelite]

Hi,

So you don't read and interpret scripture, write your interpretation on your website and this forum for all to read and have your own dogma/doctrines written out?

Mary

Let me quote my own web site (blog) the 'about' part which explains why I use the name 'brakelite'.
Traffic can be hell. Distractions, speeding, intolerance, abuse, rudeness…and much more can make traveling from one place to another a nightmare. It can be frustrating, dangerous, confusing, fraught with near misses and worse, at times one can get lost, even never reaching the intended destination.

Which brings me to the ‘brakelite’. A bright warning light on the rear of the vehicles ahead that scream ‘hold-up’, ‘slow down’, or even ‘STOP’, but always when displayed it gives the following driver pause, and awakens one senses to seriously consider the way ahead. To evaluate the options, and choose wisely, hopefully, a safe line of travel, even if necessary in certain circumstances like a ‘detour’, turning around and going another way,.

‘Brakelite’ is the pseudonym I write under. For precisely the same reasons as described above. My hope is that as one reads my articles they will pause, consider their options, and choose wisely their way ahead. My hope and prayer is that all who read will safely arrive one day at the New Jerusalem, where we may meet by the grace of God and never more to worry over traffic jams.

God bless.

I have been using that name for 20 years on a variety of forums. My reasoning behind it hasn't changed. write what I do to make people think. Not to compel them to obey.

 

[brakelite]

Blinded by tradition? You mean the tradition that scripture tells us to hold fast to??

Tell me. Do you hold fast to the older traditions, or new ones. Which traditions do you believe the more trustworthy, and what validates the establishment of new ones which contradict scripture and the commandments of God?


Jeremiah 6:16-19
16 Thus saith the Lord, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
17 Also I set watchmen over you, saying, Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken.
18 Therefore hear, ye nations, and know, O congregation, what is among them.
19 Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it.

Luke 4:16
16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

Acts 28:17
17 And it came to pass, that after three days Paul called the chief of the Jews together: and when they were come together, he said unto them, Men and brethren, though I have committed nothing against the people, or customs of our fathers, yet was I delivered prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans.

Acts 17:2
2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

 

[epostle1]

Actually, no. Even 20 times would not be sufficient to overturn any one of God's laws. Would 20 murders overturn the 6th commandment if the church said so? Please note something here you are overlooking. On both of those meetings, in Acts 20:7 and in John 20:19 the apostles were meeting at night. Read the context. A Biblical day began in the evening at sunset. Both these meetings, although technically on the first day of the week, were in fact Saturday night. The meeting in Acts was being held because on the morrow, that is Sunday morning, Paul was heading out of town. It could be very well understood that that particular meeting was merely a carryover from the Sabbath meetings they would have attended or held earlier that same day.
As for the meeting in John 20, the Bible is clear as to the reason the apostles were gathered together. Out of fear. Not to worship...not to 'break bread' (which according to Acts 2:46 they did daily) but for fear of the Jews...again this was after the Sabbath had closed at sunset.
Absolutely no evidence or support for the sacredness of a day that God Himself made holy to be transferred to any other day. Regardless of tradition or the testimony of church fathers.
And while I understand well the Catholic defense of the transmitting of authority to the church, one must be very brave to claim that authority extends to altering or abrogating God's laws.

The only person abrogating God's laws is you and your man made sabbitarian cult. I obliterated your nonsense about the 10 commandments being changed, you just refuse to read the facts. I've seen your kind before, I will not be led into pointless circles, especially with your Judaizing that was resolved in the 1st century.

 

[mjrhealth]

The only person abrogating God's laws is you and your man made sabbitarian cult. I obliterated your nonsense about the 10 commandments being changed, you just refuse to read the facts. I've seen your kind before, I will not be led into pointless circles, especially with your Judaizing that was resolved in the 1st century.

Love it, one religious man discussing religion with another religious man.. Christ may not be divided but men is by his many religions....

 

[brakelite]

Love it, one religious man discussing religion with another religious man.. Christ may not be divided but men is by his many religions....

No, men are not divided by other men or religion. Men are divided by their refusal to submit to truth.

 

[mjrhealth]

No, men are not divided by other men or religion. Men are divided by their refusal to submit to truth.

Which one the SDA or the catholic, divided by there religions and doctrines,

Mat_15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar_7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Col_2:22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

its why we have religion, people prefer there religions to Christ.

Mar_7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

God bless