Why I could personally never chose to be Catholic

[mjrhealth]

Christ calls us to love others - that is it. We can choose to love each other in many different ways. We are supposed to have love in common

What has this to so with love , one can hate religion without hating the people, I guess we have to choose whom our Husband is, Christ or your religion, A man can only love one wife or a women one Husband,or His heart is divided, who do i lovbe the most, and

yours has one.

2Ki_6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

never alone have Jesus God Holy Spirit and a thousand men women and children who Fallow Christ and who will not listen to stranger. and as I said, the longer you leave a tea bag in a glass of water teh stronger the cup of tea, why people have such problems with Jesus ill never know.

Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

people still finding other ways.

 

[aspen]

What has this to so with love , one can hate religion without hating the people, I guess we have to choose whom our Husband is, Christ or your religion, A man can only love one wife or a women one Husband,or His heart is divided, who do i lovbe the most, and


2Ki_6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

never alone have Jesus God Holy Spirit and a thousand men women and children who Fallow Christ and who will not listen to stranger. and as I said, the longer you leave a tea bag in a glass of water teh stronger the cup of tea, why people have such problems with Jesus ill never know.

Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

people still finding other ways.

You have revealed that differences define you.

 

[brakelite]

Hi brakelite,

Why are your doctrines and dogmas valid and the Catholic Churches not valid or true or trustworthy or revealed to them by God?

Curious Mary

It is because your church teaches doctrine, dogma, sacraments, etc as the way of salvation that I reject her. The way of salvation is not to be found in doctrine. One can have an intellectual understanding of scripture, even have letters after their name to prove it, but be lost because they do not know Jesus. The gospel is not an exposition of church teachings and dogma. Salvation is by way of a person, Jesus Christ and Him crucified. The only way to heaven is not through a church, nor through a correct understanding of doctrine.

John 17:3
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Eternal life comes through a relationship with a Saviour. Not a relationship with a priest, pastor, or a church. I am the church, along with many others...and they belong to many different denominations, including even your own. But what makes us church is not a unity in teaching or doctrine (although true doctrine is important) but Christ, Who alone is the Head of the church, and therefore my Head. There is no intermediary between Him and me. I refuse to allow the church, any church,(that is an ecclesiastical organisation) or any pastor priest or layman to place himself or herself between my and my Saviour. There are several reasons for this. First, because any man, woman and child is a sinner just as I am, and thus prone to error and deception. Second, no-one else is as concerned with my eternal destiny as I am. Why should I place my eternal interests in the care of someone who does not regard my future with any more concern than his own? I have placed my eternal destiny in the care of the only one Who truly cares for it, the one who proved that regard by dying in my place.
Catholic teachings and doctrines and the priesthood etc. were created and established perhaps with good intentions, but the result has been disastrous. Not just for those who wouldn't accept them, but for those of you who do, because for most they get in the way of a true intimate relationship with Jesus, and remove Jesus from His rightful place as Head of the church...the only place from which He can effectively lead it.
I believe and accept only that doctrine that enhances my relationship with Jesus, and reject all teachings that intervene, set aside, or confuse that relationship. My relationship with Jesus is everything to me, and I will allow nothing in the way to harm or prevent it.

 

[mjrhealth]

You have revealed that differences define you.

What are you talking about, we are all different but to God we are all the same. You come here with your religion and like all religious men separate yourself from all the other religions, men are defined by there religion, it is where there hearts are at it is what they justify it is what you are defending, our other friend in that cause is not unlike you, we are supposed to be In Christ but men prefer to be in church, we are suppose to be united by the Spirit in Christ but men has divided himself from God and Jesus by his religions, this part

1Sa_8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

but men are reigned over by there religious leaders as Christ put it

Luk 22:25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
Luk 22:26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.

yet men have let men rule over them not Jesus who is supposed to be Lord of all.

 

[aspen]

What are you talking about, we are all different but to God we are all the same. You come here with your religion and like all religious men separate yourself from all the other religions, men are defined by there religion, it is where there hearts are at it is what they justify it is what you are defending, our other friend in that cause is not unlike you, we are supposed to be In Christ but men prefer to be in church, we are suppose to be united by the Spirit in Christ but men has divided himself from God and Jesus by his religions, this part

1Sa_8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

but men are reigned over by there religious leaders as Christ put it

Luk 22:25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
Luk 22:26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.

yet men have let men rule over them not Jesus who is supposed to be Lord of all.

I am not defined by my religion. I choose to express my faith by practicing my religion, but it is not my true self. My religion is the training wheels of my sanctification. My true self is part of the Body of Christ. People who are tribal grasp and cling to their false self, which includes all thngs we use to identify ourselves. They are dead in their sins - pilars of salt who could not leave the world behind.

Love is a central part - it is our sanctification.

 

[mjrhealth]

Love is a central part - it is our sanctification.

No it is not, Jesus is, it is all about Christ but men have made it about there religion, are we here to show the world the religion that we belong to or to show them Jesus Christ?? And you are defined by your religion it the doctrines you preach it is what you call yourself,

Heb_10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Joh_17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

 

[epostle1]

If you would like to know my understanding of the gospel, and how it affects the sinner, read it here..if it differs from the Catholic version, then maybe you could explain where I am wrong. Just remember, my understanding comes from the Bible, not from the church. If you want to pit the church's beliefs against the Bible, then I am not interested.
Character Development.

The Bible came from the Church. This is why intelligent discussion is impossible when you re-write history to force fit into your opinions. There was no Bible until 397 AD.
Church beliefs made the Bible. It is impossible to pit the Church's beliefs against the Bible without doing violence to all of Christian history. There is a complementary relationship between the Bible and the Church, NOWHERE does the Bible pit itself against the Church, unless you support a post enlightenment cult. The only thing left for you to do is re-write history, which it seems you do a lot of that.

 

[mjrhealth]

The Bible came from the Church.

But His word Jesus Christ came from God... Guess in whom our salvation lies.....

 

[BreadOfLife]

But His word Jesus Christ came from God... Guess in whom our salvation lies.....

Uh huh - and Jesus Christ gave His Church Supreme Authority on earth - that WHATEVER it ordained on earth (i.e., the canon of Scripture) would also be ordained in Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

There was NO NT canon when Jesus was alive - and that's why He left His Church to write and declare it under the guidance of the Holy Spirit . . .

 

[mjrhealth]

There was NO NT canon when Jesus was alive - and that's why He left His Church to write and declare it under the guidance of the Holy Spirit . . .

Still missing it, still promoting the lie, still defending mother,

Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Luk_2:25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.

Act_5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Act_10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

see BOL Gods people are LEd by teh Holy Spirit, this bit.
Joh_1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Rom_8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

i guess that leaves you out.

1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

God bless

 

[Jun2u]

For you to misrepresent the Catholic Church with such malice is a grave sin.

If you thought I’ve misrepresented the doctrines of your church I’ve set forth in post #20 and there are others, then why not enlighten me instead of accusing me of being anti-catholic?

You cannot name a single "tradition of men" that we are obligated to follow. That false charge alone is a
tradition of anti-Catholics.

Sure I can!!! Water Baptism. Scripture teaches there is only ONE BAPTISM (Eph 4:5) that is the washing of Regeneration (Tit 3:5). Your church teach water baptism saves, yet water baptism is a work that man performs and contrary to Eph. 2:9 Water can only wash away filth off of the flesh. This not a false but a legitimate charge!

Again, name what has been added to the Gospel. You can't because you think you know how the Gospel is proclaimed at every Catholic Mass. You don't know, you just blindly persecute.

Your church believes that God is still bringing revelation to mankind through voices, and dreams, and miracles, as in the Fatima account, which is contrary to Revelation 22.

Don’t get me wrong, there are also false Protestant churches that believe as your church. There is no perfect church on earth as defined in Revelation 2 and 3. These false churches are not in existence any longer.

To God Be The Glory

 

[aspen]

1. The beginning of Romans 6 says, "Don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life." This idea that we are made one with Christ through baptism is reiterated by Paul in Colossians 2:12, and in Galatians 3:27 he likens baptism to "being clothed with Christ."

2. Catholics do not teach continuing revelation. My revelations and visions of the Virgin Mary are discounted on the basis of adding to revelation.

 

[rstrats]

BreadOfLife,

brakelite wrote in post #271: "I would be interested in the Cathechism's scriptural justification for the sacredness of Sunday."

You responded with:
Ps 118:24.
Mt 28:1; Mk 16:2; Lk 24:1; Jn 20:1.
Mk 16:1; Mt 28:1.
St. Justin, I Apol. 67G 6,429 and 432.
1 Cor 10:11.
St. Ignatius of Antioch, Ad Magn. 9,1:SCh 10,88.
109 St. Thomas Aquinas, STh II-II,122,4.
Acts 20:7, 1 Cor. 16:2, Col. 2:16, Rev. 1:10
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Justin, Ignatius, and Aquinas can be eliminated since they are not scripture.

Ps 118:24 and 1 Cor 10:11 can be eliminated since nothing is said with reagard to the first day of the week.

Mt 28:1, Mk 16:1, Mk 16:2, Lk 24:1, Jn 20:1 and 1 Cor 16:2 can be eliminated since nothing is said about anyone observing the first day of the week for the purpose of rest and worship.

Col 2:16 can be eliminated since nothing is said about meeting on the first day of the week for the purpose of rest and worship.

Rev 1:10 can be eliminated since nothing is said about the first day of the week.

Acts 20:7 - The Acts reference has them together very likely because Paul happened to be in town and he wanted to talk to them before he had to leave again. The "breaking of bread" could simply be saying that the disciples got together to eat a meal on this particular first day of the week . The phrase, "to break bread", does not have to refer to a religious service - unless it is specifically stated - but to dividing loaves of bread for a meal. "It means to partake of food and is used of eating as in a meal...... The readers [of the original New Testament letters and manuscripts] could have had no other idea or meaning in their minds" (E.W.Bullinger, Figures of Speech Used in the Bible, pp. 839,840.
But even if the "breaking of bread mentioned" always did refer to the Lord’s Supper, it had nothing to do with placing a special emphasis on the first (day) because Acts 2:46 says that they broke bread every day.

And actually, as far as scripture is concerned, there are only two times mentioned with regard to anybody getting together on the first (day) of the week - John 20:19 and Acts 20:7. There is never any mention of them ever again being together on the first. The John reference has them together in a closed room after the crucifixion because they were afraid of their fellow Jews. Nothing is said about a worship service or day of rest. And it couldn't have been in recognition of the resurrection because at that time they didn't even believe that the resurrection had taken place.

There simply is no scripture that says that the first day of the week is to be set aside for a day of rest and worship.

 

[Marymog]

If you would like to know my understanding of the gospel, and how it affects the sinner, read it here..if it differs from the Catholic version, then maybe you could explain where I am wrong. Just remember, my understanding comes from the Bible, not from the church. If you want to pit the church's beliefs against the Bible, then I am not interested.
Character Development.

Thank you. What if your understanding of the gospel on let's say.... 20 out of 100 issues.... is the same as the Catholic understanding. Does that mean that the Catholic Church got it right or did you get it right and The Church just happens to agree with you?

To put it another way: When the Catholic Church teaches something opposite of what you believe does that mean you are right and they are wrong?

I believe you. You get your doctrines/dogmas from reading the bible. So do the men of the Catholic Church. So I ask once again:

Why are your doctrines and dogmas valid and the Catholic Churches not valid or true or trustworthy or revealed to them by God?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

It is because your church teaches doctrine, dogma, sacraments, etc as the way of salvation that I reject her. The way of salvation is not to be found in doctrine. One can have an intellectual understanding of scripture, even have letters after their name to prove it, but be lost because they do not know Jesus. The gospel is not an exposition of church teachings and dogma. Salvation is by way of a person, Jesus Christ and Him crucified. The only way to heaven is not through a church, nor through a correct understanding of doctrine.

John 17:3
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Eternal life comes through a relationship with a Saviour. Not a relationship with a priest, pastor, or a church. I am the church, along with many others...and they belong to many different denominations, including even your own. But what makes us church is not a unity in teaching or doctrine (although true doctrine is important) but Christ, Who alone is the Head of the church, and therefore my Head. There is no intermediary between Him and me. I refuse to allow the church, any church,(that is an ecclesiastical organisation) or any pastor priest or layman to place himself or herself between my and my Saviour. There are several reasons for this. First, because any man, woman and child is a sinner just as I am, and thus prone to error and deception. Second, no-one else is as concerned with my eternal destiny as I am. Why should I place my eternal interests in the care of someone who does not regard my future with any more concern than his own? I have placed my eternal destiny in the care of the only one Who truly cares for it, the one who proved that regard by dying in my place.
Catholic teachings and doctrines and the priesthood etc. were created and established perhaps with good intentions, but the result has been disastrous. Not just for those who wouldn't accept them, but for those of you who do, because for most they get in the way of a true intimate relationship with Jesus, and remove Jesus from His rightful place as Head of the church...the only place from which He can effectively lead it.
I believe and accept only that doctrine that enhances my relationship with Jesus, and reject all teachings that intervene, set aside, or confuse that relationship. My relationship with Jesus is everything to me, and I will allow nothing in the way to harm or prevent it.

Hi Brakelite,

You say that you are the church along with many others and that we all belong to many different denominations.

If you and me and all the other 2 billion Christians in the world are "the church" then which church do we go to to fulfill Matthew 18:17?

Which one of those 2 billion Christians are the pillar and foundation of truth spoken of 1 Timothy 3:15?

It seems to me you are a church of one. Making your own doctrine, dogma and coming up with your interpretation of scripture. That is what a church does. However, you at least admit that you are prone to error and deception. So my question is: How do you know your not deceiving yourself and in error about your 'everyone it the church' theory?

Curious Mary

 

[epostle1]

BreadOfLife,

brakelite wrote in post #271: "I would be interested in the Cathechism's scriptural justification for the sacredness of Sunday."

You responded with:
Ps 118:24.
Mt 28:1; Mk 16:2; Lk 24:1; Jn 20:1.
Mk 16:1; Mt 28:1.
St. Justin, I Apol. 67G 6,429 and 432.
1 Cor 10:11.
St. Ignatius of Antioch, Ad Magn. 9,1:SCh 10,88.
109 St. Thomas Aquinas, STh II-II,122,4.
Acts 20:7, 1 Cor. 16:2, Col. 2:16, Rev. 1:10
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Justin, Ignatius, and Aquinas can be eliminated since they are not scripture.

Ps 118:24 and 1 Cor 10:11 can be eliminated since nothing is said with reagard to the first day of the week.

Mt 28:1, Mk 16:1, Mk 16:2, Lk 24:1, Jn 20:1 and 1 Cor 16:2 can be eliminated since nothing is said about anyone observing the first day of the week for the purpose of rest and worship.

Col 2:16 can be eliminated since nothing is said about meeting on the first day of the week for the purpose of rest and worship.

Rev 1:10 can be eliminated since nothing is said about the first day of the week.

Acts 20:7 - The Acts reference has them together very likely because Paul happened to be in town and he wanted to talk to them before he had to leave again. The "breaking of bread" could simply be saying that the disciples got together to eat a meal on this particular first day of the week . The phrase, "to break bread", does not have to refer to a religious service - unless it is specifically stated - but to dividing loaves of bread for a meal. "It means to partake of food and is used of eating as in a meal...... The readers [of the original New Testament letters and manuscripts] could have had no other idea or meaning in their minds" (E.W.Bullinger, Figures of Speech Used in the Bible, pp. 839,840.
But even if the "breaking of bread mentioned" always did refer to the Lord’s Supper, it had nothing to do with placing a special emphasis on the first (day) because Acts 2:46 says that they broke bread every day.

And actually, as far as scripture is concerned, there are only two times mentioned with regard to anybody getting together on the first (day) of the week - John 20:19 and Acts 20:7. There is never any mention of them ever again being together on the first. The John reference has them together in a closed room after the crucifixion because they were afraid of their fellow Jews. Nothing is said about a worship service or day of rest. And it couldn't have been in recognition of the resurrection because at that time they didn't even believe that the resurrection had taken place.

There simply is no scripture that says that the first day of the week is to be set aside for a day of rest and worship.

You can be eliminated for following man made traditions.

 

[brakelite]

Hi Brakelite,

You say that you are the church along with many others and that we all belong to many different denominations.

If you and me and all the other 2 billion Christians in the world are "the church" then which church do we go to to fulfill Matthew 18:17?

Which one of those 2 billion Christians are the pillar and foundation of truth spoken of 1 Timothy 3:15?

It seems to me you are a church of one. Making your own doctrine, dogma and coming up with your interpretation of scripture. That is what a church does. However, you at least admit that you are prone to error and deception. So my question is: How do you know your not deceiving yourself and in error about your 'everyone it the church' theory?

Curious Mary

If I should in all faith and trust, kneel before my Maker and ask for a fish, what will He give me? If I should ask for wisdom, what will He give me? If I ask for His Spirit, what will He give me? If I ask to be led into all truth, what will He give me? Those who are deceived are those who are NOT in my position. They rely on man. They kneel before God asking for wisdom, then ask man what he thinks. They kneel and ask God for truth, then go to their priest and ask what he thinks. Then they attack others who sought God and found peace and safety and truth in Him. They put their 'church' above God. Then judge and condemn the thoughts and minds and motives of those that disagree with their 'church'...their 'church' has become their god.
And don't bother to name all the crazies who have 'claimed' to hear from God and led people to suicide etc. That is NOT what I am talking about, and you know it. And as for Matthew 18:17, are you suggesting we take a matter to all 2 bllion people? Common sense Mary dictates we take it to our local congregation. And the church, any church, is only a pillar of truth if she agrees to scripture. I asked BOL on another thread for the RCC's scriptural justification for Sunday sacredness. I would ask you Mary the same. Other than the excuse of taking the law into their own hands claiming "all authority", what justification was there for the RCC to change the ten commandments in her catechisms?

 

[rstrats]

epostle1,
re: "You can be eliminated for following man made traditions."

So you're saying that scripture is man made tradition? And what might those man made traditions be?

 

[Marymog]

If I should in all faith and trust, kneel before my Maker and ask for a fish, what will He give me? If I should ask for wisdom, what will He give me? If I ask for His Spirit, what will He give me? If I ask to be led into all truth, what will He give me? Those who are deceived are those who are NOT in my position. They rely on man. They kneel before God asking for wisdom, then ask man what he thinks. They kneel and ask God for truth, then go to their priest and ask what he thinks. Then they attack others who sought God and found peace and safety and truth in Him. They put their 'church' above God. Then judge and condemn the thoughts and minds and motives of those that disagree with their 'church'...their 'church' has become their god.
And don't bother to name all the crazies who have 'claimed' to hear from God and led people to suicide etc. That is NOT what I am talking about, and you know it. And as for Matthew 18:17, are you suggesting we take a matter to all 2 bllion people? Common sense Mary dictates we take it to our local congregation. And the church, any church, is only a pillar of truth if she agrees to scripture. I asked BOL on another thread for the RCC's scriptural justification for Sunday sacredness. I would ask you Mary the same. Other than the excuse of taking the law into their own hands claiming "all authority", what justification was there for the RCC to change the ten commandments in her catechisms? View attachment 1975

Hi,

No, I am not suggesting that we take a matter to 2 billion people. You are suggesting that. Since, according to your interpretation of scripture, you and me and the 2 billion other Christians in this world are "the church' that means there are 2 billion people to choose from to fulfill Matthew 18:17. I am saying there is only One Church.....not 2 billion.

They rely on man....They kneel before God asking for wisdom and truth....They put their 'church' above God....They judge and condemn the thoughts, minds and motives of those that disagree? Don't you do the same thing???? Are you not "they" also? Do you not do all those things?

Curious Mary

 

[brakelite]

Hi,

No, I am not suggesting that we take a matter to 2 billion people. You are suggesting that. Since, according to your interpretation of scripture, you and me and the 2 billion other Christians in this world are "the church' that means there are 2 billion people to choose from to fulfill Matthew 18:17. I am saying there is only One Church.....not 2 billion.

They rely on man....They kneel before God asking for wisdom and truth....They put their 'church' above God....They judge and condemn the thoughts, minds and motives of those that disagree? Don't you do the same thing???? Are you not "they" also? Do you not do all those things?

Curious Mary

If you are referring to the 2 billion Catholics around the world yes, they are relying on their church for salvation, with of course some exceptions.
And of course so are some protestants doing likewise. But you cleverly diverted my reply and refused to commit yourself to an answer to the main thrust of my post by throwing it back at me. Care to try again?
If I should in all faith and trust, kneel before my Maker and ask for a fish, what will He give me? If I should ask for wisdom, what will He give me? If I ask for His Spirit, what will He give me? If I ask to be led into all truth, what will He give me?