Why I Would Not Like Jesus

[MA2444]

I like wine but not necessarily "wine."

You lost me there. What's the difference?

 

[MA2444]

You seem sort of like denying it even when it is presented to you 400 times over.

NOTE: 1 Kings 22 does not indicate God was outraged that his messenger proposed lying would achieve the desired end. Indeed, God commanded him to do so.

Is having someone else lie 400 times a pattern contrary to "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?"

Do you trust the word of God to be Truth?

Number 23:19
19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?.../KJV

So this is why I have to call it us being short sighted of man as to if the Lord lied. He doesnt lie. He cant. No matter how good or convincing that worldy scholars can make it sound. We're missing something. We have to be. Man has a track record of being wrong. God has a track record of being True.

So what's so hard about believing that it is us that is wrong? Like Pogo, lol. We have seen the enemy and he is us...

 

[MA2444]

I had this subject mind so I started rummaging around about it and found this!

Hebrews 6:18-20
18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;

20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.../KJV

Interseting how it spoke right to me on this subject,

 

[Aunty Jane]

No one. Thanks for making that point. I'm just saying publicly that I don't like certain things about how Jesus communicated at times.

Is there a reason why you would post something so disrespectful to Jesus and his Father (who taught him everything he said) and not expect some backlash? Or are you just fishing for support….to make yourself feel better?

LOL. Why are you using quotes? To pretend the lie is not a lie. Your lie (to yourself) is to deny Jesus most certainly did speak about bread.

”leaven“ is not bread…..it is a raising agent that Jesus used to illustrate how evil can spread….
Paul also used a metaphor to illustrate the same thing…
2 Tim 2:16-17….
”But reject empty speeches that violate what is holy, for they will lead to more and more ungodliness, 17 and their word will spread like gangrene….”
In Bible times there were no antibiotics and gangrene was common……it eats away the flesh…so they got the picture quite graphically.
Jesus explained himself to his disciples and directly stated that he was referring to the teachings of the Pharisees. But he did not explain himself to everyone…..he allowed God to read the hearts of his audience and the genuine ones stayed to learn more…the others left…..most probably found among those who clamored for his death.

He also repeatedly spoke about sleep, an action by the living. I know there is a deep seated need to dismiss these lies as metaphors. We can reject that anyone ever lies about anything; they just "used misunderstood metaphors," right? If not, why not?

It was common for the Jews to refer to death as sleep, because they believed in the resurrection…..a state of complete inactivity in the grave where all mankind would spend the rest of this world’s existence, until “the new earth” arrived. (2 Peter 3:13) With the establishment of God’s Kingdom in heaven, and Christ’s rulership over the earth, they expected to awaken in “paradise”….like the thief who was executed with Jesus…he was told that he would be with him in “paradise”. He was not telling him that he was going to heaven.

You are the one who is not getting it. This thread is an unusually subjective thread, what I don't like. You want to change the basis of what I don't like to be misunderstanding on my part. If only I understood that when he said bread, he did not mean "bread," then I'd like it. False.

Since he did not say “bread”…..then what you “dislike” is not even stated….what blindness is this?
In the Lord’s Prayer Jesus asks…..”give us this day our daily bread”. He used the word “artos” (bread)….not “zymē” (leaven). He does say what he means, and he often spoke in parables. It was an effective teaching method.

The bread was not always leavened. That used at the Lord’s Supper was not leavened.
Your “dislike” of Jesus’ statement is therefore baseless.

I don't think you've answered a number of questions I've asked you (like rejection criteria). That's unusual for you.

I am happy to answer any questions as you well know……so, what is “rejection criteria”? Are you asking me what the basis is for Christ’s rejection that he outlines in Matt 7:21-23?

 

[TheHC]

At some point, there is something duplicitous in a pattern of talking this way. And I don’t like it. A is A.

You’ve been on here and other venues for quite a while, posting on different topics, but now this….

I’m really curious, did you just now see this?

The Gospels are full of Jesus’ words, containing much symbolic,
metaphoric & hyperbolic language.

His sayings meant something.

You don't like his manner…well…
His disciples loved it! They may not have understood everything at that time, but knew if they stuck around, they’d eventually learn. (Matthew 16:5-12)
And many didn’t want to.
Matthew 13:10-15.
Matthew 7:14
But the few who did, loved his way of teaching! -Matthew 7:28,29

 

[ThePuffyBlob]

Agreed. "Teaching" so that not all people will understand it is foolish nonsense.

Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

So just imagine if Christ Jesus uses futuristic words. Won't those few become many? Have you also forgotten that the ancient languages are not that vast compared to the modern.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Have you also forgotten that whoever had a taste of the life under the wings of Christ Jesus and then turned away will no longer find its way back? So stop this foolishness before it's too late. Christ Jesus is only middleman. You cannot go near God the Father. If you deny Christ and deny Christ, you are making yourself an antichrist. Aren't you already denying Christ by saying Christ Jesus did worse at teaching the word of God when God himself is in Christ Jesus?

 

[ThePuffyBlob]

please stop digging your own grave

 

[Lambano]

Maybe this is why some prefer the Pauline epistles to the Gospels. Paul writes so clearly and logically. Yeah, a few bits of symbolism and metaphor here and there, like "the rock was Christ", which doesn't make much sense; Paul isn't so good at metaphor. He does okay with simile, e.g. "like a sounding gong or a clashing symbol". But he's not like Jesus in the gospels.

But then, what Jesus actually taught isn't of much interest to Paul. What is interesting to Paul is the "Big Picture", the overall meta-narrative about Creation and sin the Fall and God selecting a people to represent Him here on earth and faithfulness and God's ultimate plans and how a crucified and resurrected Messiah fits into all that.

Dare I use the provocative term, "Paulianity"?

 

[St. SteVen]

"the rock was Christ"

Which was actually based on a Hebrew myth. The original rolling stone.

Dare I use the provocative term, "Paulianity"?

Back to the drawing board...
Sounds too much like Pollyanna. - LOL

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[Lambano]

Back to the drawing board...
Sounds too much like Pollyanna. - LOL

I felt like causing trouble today.

 

[Lambano]

The original rolling stone.

 

[St. SteVen]

I felt like causing trouble today.

I feel like that EVERY day.

You need to UP your game. - LOL

[

 

[Wrangler]

Whaat? I disagree with that. If anything Christiandom needs to become spiritualized

I said OVERLY spiritualized, neglecting soulful needs, needs of the body.

This is seen in Christianity being the only religion that has a man shortage; men don't feel needed, i.e., they are wasting their time, not doing anything, told to be passive, "fight on your knees," etc. My wife can sing these songs all she wants but in the real world, she still recently needed me to tend to her soulful needs, a vacuum cleaner and laptop. When her soulful needs emerged, the veneer of overly spiritualized sense evaporated.

Along these same lines, this thread highlights a naivety regarding telling the truth in opposition to soulful needs - as demonstrated by our Lord. When my wife asks if her dress makes her look fat, it is too much truth for her to tell her, "No, it is your fat, that makes you look fat." Consider these sets of premises, parsing Matthew 10:16:
Sacred Cow

• P1. Jesus never lied.
• P2. You just don't understand why he said what he said.
• P3. You should't ever say such things as Jesus lied.
• P4. Be as innocent as doves

Wise as Serpent

• P1. Jesus lied when it was shrewd to do so, like using "the temple" to refer to something else.
• P2. It is not a sin to lie in war but an important tool in war.
• P3. And we are in the war of the ages, the battle of good v evil.
• P4. Be as forked tongue as wise serpents.

“Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.
Matthew 10:16

 

[Wrangler]

You lost me there. What's the difference?

Again, words have meaning and ideas have consequences. When you or Jesus use a word, like wine, I can track with you. When you use a word like wine to mean "wine," meaning anything other than wine, now I too am lost.

It's one thing to invoke a saying, like the early bird gets the worm, that is common knowledge. It's another thing to use words to mean anything other than the denotation where there is no reason to expect the audience understands that by wine you really mean "wine."

 

[Wrangler]

Is there a reason why you would post something so disrespectful to Jesus and his Father

There is NOTHING disrespectful about:

1. Having preferences
2. Stating what those preferences are.

Your basic position is to say I should not have these preferences and I'm too stupid to understand why I should not have these preferences AND/OR deny the deceptive nature of the words used that forms the basis of my preferences.

 

[Wrangler]

”leaven“ is not bread

<sigh> Irrelevant. What is relevant is you putting the word in quotes. See my response to @MA2444 in post #114.

 

[Wrangler]

I am happy to answer any questions as you well know……so, what is “rejection criteria”?

See post #65.

 

[Wrangler]

I’m really curious, did you just now see this?

The Gospels are full of Jesus’ words, containing much symbolic,
metaphoric & hyperbolic language.

No. It always bothered me that the God of the OT epitomizes the ultimate in clear and direct language usage in all of the human condition. His explicit words LITERALLY written in stone. The expression now imbued to emphatic significance! In addition, in today's devotional reading I came across excruciating explicit instruction by YHWH to Moses in Exodus 7:15-20. There is no indirect language used by the Creator, no metaphors, no hyperbole, no double meaning.

By contrast, even Jesus disciples could grasp what he was talking about so often they he got frustrated at his failure to achieve communication in constantly using indirect techniques of expression.

Just decided to share that this is not something I like.

 

[Wrangler]

Aren't you already denying Christ

Nope. Not one little bit am I denying Christ.

In college, my mother sent me this beautiful card out of the blue. It expressed the idea that even though there are things about me she does not like, she still deeply loves me. Is that too honest to admit about others, including the one who loves us most?

 

[Lambano]

You need to UP your game. - LOL

I'm sure there are a few folks out there willing to suggest where I can "UP" my game.