Why I Would Not Like Jesus

[Wynona]

It seems to me that Christiandom has become overly spiritualized

What are some examples? I feel like you could mean different things.

 

[Wrangler]

What are some examples? I feel like you could mean different things.

See post #113. (I thought you told me in the other thread but does your husband go to church?)A leading indicator of culture is art. Christian music used to be, "Onward Christian Soldier," which appealed to man's desire to act consistent with the Scriptural principles of ask, seek knock and it will be answered, found and opened as well as the Great Commission of a mighty work is our lord commanding us to do taking many lifetimes, many generations to achieve.

This was replaced with "When I fight, I'll fight on my knees," suggesting a passive role in the events unfolding around us. This is over-spiritualization. I will NOT fight on my knees.

And of course, the biggest example is this whole thread, Christendom's naivety regarding speaking the truth, like innocent doves, abdicating the "be wise like a forked tongue serpent" part of the soulful command from God. Daniel did not submit to the government decree to worship a false God OR complain to the angel who saved him in the fire that it violated the law, the king's decree. Mary and Joseph did not go up to Herod and honestly say, "here is the child you are looking" for during the slaughtering of the innocents. Peter (or Paul?) was involved in a prison break. Jesus spit on the dirt and rubbed it in people's eyes. Ewe! Right? Soulful, tending to the human needs of the body. Jesus healed people physically. James 2:15-17.

I don't like that we are in a spiritual war of good v evil but that has been ongoing since the Fall of Mankind, if not before. We should not be so honest, we are honest to a fault, to our own detriment or so "nice" that we avoid uncomfortable truths as it slays sacred cows. Two examples in this thread include:

• why I would not like part of how Jesus talked.
• my wife asking if the dress makes her look fat when the truth is that it is her fat that makes her look fact.

Hope this answers your question of how the church has become overly spiritualized.

 

[Wynona]

See post #113. (I thought you told me in the other thread but does your husband go to church?)A leading indicator of culture is art. Christian music used to be, "Onward Christian Soldier," which appealed to man's desire to act consistent with the Scriptural principles of ask, seek knock and it will be answered, found and opened as well as the Great Commission of a mighty work is our lord commanding us to do taking many lifetimes, many generations to achieve.

This was replaced with "When I fight, I'll fight on my knees," suggesting a passive role in the events unfolding around us. This is over-spiritualization. I will NOT fight on my knees.

And of course, the biggest example is this whole thread, Christendom's naivety regarding speaking the truth, like innocent doves, abdicating the "be wise like a forked tongue serpent" part of the soulful command from God. Daniel did not submit to the government decree to worship a false God OR complain to the angel who saved him in the fire that it violated the law, the king's decree. Mary and Joseph did not go up to Herod and honestly say, "here is the child you are looking" for during the slaughtering of the innocents. Peter (or Paul?) was involved in a prison break. Jesus spit on the dirt and rubbed it in people's eyes. Ewe! Right? Soulful, tending to the human needs of the body. Jesus healed people physically. James 2:15-17.

I don't like that we are in a spiritual war of good v evil but that has been ongoing since the Fall of Mankind, if not before. We should not be so honest, we are honest to a fault, to our own detriment or so "nice" that we avoid uncomfortable truths as it slays sacred cows. Two examples in this thread include:

• why I would not like part of how Jesus talked.
• my wife asking if the dress makes her look fat when the truth is that it is her fat that makes her look fact.

Hope this answers your question of how the church has become overly spiritualized.

I'm definitely getting your frustration with passivity in the church. Your description of over-spiritualization seems to me like spiritual passivity. Thanks for answering.

My husband has prayerfully led us out of a local church right now. We are trying to heed the Scriptures and act in faith regardless. He believes we have grown more studying Scripture as husband and wife and learning to give sacrificially.

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

If you are easily offended stop reading now.












I'm not sure what forum this should be in. I put it in the Ethics and Morality forum because the basis of my dislike is grounded in a sacred cow, lying of the Messiah. Of course, no one will admit this is lying because of the sacred cow. What do you call it when you deliberately use words incorrectly, deceptively, unnecessarily and overly figuratively? Politicians are hated for this; speaking with a forked tongue; saying one thing but meaning another.

This pattern is seen throughout the Gospels and Jesus admitted using parables to fulfill prophecy. However, today's devotional reading is no kind of parable and reveals why I would not like Jesus especially concisely. In Matthew 16:11 Jesus asks, "Why can't you understand that I am not talking about bread?"

The simple answer is 'because words have meaning and you are using the word bread.' V12 explains they finally understood he was talking about the deceptiveness (of the teaching of the religious leaders).
A is A.
Bread is bread.
Deceptiveness is deceptiveness.

I was taught a good communication technique is to say what you mean and mean what you say. This is not only effective communication but effective teaching. Jesus may have been a teacher but he obviously was not an effective teacher using any objective standard. Imagine any other teacher whose own students don't understand him and his teachings ended up getting him killed? Enter the sacred cow. Oh but from a spiritual perspective ...

I get it! Jesus is the son of God and was given all authority. That really doesn't change anything about the truth of what I'm saying.

People took Jesus literally when he was being figurative all the time. The whole Gospel of John is full of such examples. He claimed that he was the Vine, the good Shepherd, the resurrection and the life, the gate to the sheep-pen, the Bread of life--all of them claiming to be God with the Father and the Holy Spirit--the one God. The figurative or literal nature of words' meanings usually depends on the contexts in which they are used. Study his sayings, and their meanings will enrich your life.

 

[David in NJ]

If you are easily offended stop reading now.












I'm not sure what forum this should be in. I put it in the Ethics and Morality forum because the basis of my dislike is grounded in a sacred cow, lying of the Messiah. Of course, no one will admit this is lying because of the sacred cow. What do you call it when you deliberately use words incorrectly, deceptively, unnecessarily and overly figuratively? Politicians are hated for this; speaking with a forked tongue; saying one thing but meaning another.

This pattern is seen throughout the Gospels and Jesus admitted using parables to fulfill prophecy. However, today's devotional reading is no kind of parable and reveals why I would not like Jesus especially concisely. In Matthew 16:11 Jesus asks, "Why can't you understand that I am not talking about bread?"

The simple answer is 'because words have meaning and you are using the word bread.' V12 explains they finally understood he was talking about the deceptiveness (of the teaching of the religious leaders).
A is A.
Bread is bread.
Deceptiveness is deceptiveness.

I was taught a good communication technique is to say what you mean and mean what you say. This is not only effective communication but effective teaching. Jesus may have been a teacher but he obviously was not an effective teacher using any objective standard. Imagine any other teacher whose own students don't understand him and his teachings ended up getting him killed? Enter the sacred cow. Oh but from a spiritual perspective ...

I get it! Jesus is the son of God and was given all authority. That really doesn't change anything about the truth of what I'm saying.

SIMPLE


Only when a person is drawn by the FATHER to the LORD Jesus Christ and that person bow his/her knee and heart and confess with their tongue that Jesus Christ is Lord can a person be SAVED.

This is the First PROMISE of the FATHER = Hear O Israel, YAHWEH ELOHENU, YAHWEH is ECHAD

 

[JLB]

Yes. See post # 22.

Jesus Christ is the truth.

 

[Lambano]

Jesus Christ is the truth.

Not to mention the Way and the Life.

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus Christ is the truth.

Are you familiar with figurative use of language?

 

[ChristinaL]

If you are easily offended stop reading now.












I'm not sure what forum this should be in. I put it in the Ethics and Morality forum because the basis of my dislike is grounded in a sacred cow, lying of the Messiah. Of course, no one will admit this is lying because of the sacred cow. What do you call it when you deliberately use words incorrectly, deceptively, unnecessarily and overly figuratively? Politicians are hated for this; speaking with a forked tongue; saying one thing but meaning another.

This pattern is seen throughout the Gospels and Jesus admitted using parables to fulfill prophecy. However, today's devotional reading is no kind of parable and reveals why I would not like Jesus especially concisely. In Matthew 16:11 Jesus asks, "Why can't you understand that I am not talking about bread?"

The simple answer is 'because words have meaning and you are using the word bread.' V12 explains they finally understood he was talking about the deceptiveness (of the teaching of the religious leaders).
A is A.
Bread is bread.
Deceptiveness is deceptiveness.

I was taught a good communication technique is to say what you mean and mean what you say. This is not only effective communication but effective teaching. Jesus may have been a teacher but he obviously was not an effective teacher using any objective standard. Imagine any other teacher whose own students don't understand him and his teachings ended up getting him killed? Enter the sacred cow. Oh but from a spiritual perspective ...

I get it! Jesus is the son of God and was given all authority. That really doesn't change anything about the truth of what I'm saying.

Jesus was not an effective teacher only by the standards of small minded men.

Matthew 13:15For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

 

[ChristinaL]

Are you familiar with figurative use of language?

This is in response to your signature. Even the OT prophets knew the Trinity. But I digress here

 

[Wrangler]

Why men stopped courting women. Sad.

 

[Taken]

….lying of the Messiah
….deliberately use words incorrectly
….saying one thing but meaning another.

^ the Charge…

….the Gospels and Jesus admitted using parables to fulfill prophecy.

^ the Observation of Intent…

The big picture hinges on Understanding…
* Understanding Carnally…is weighing a Logical choice between this information AND that information.
* Understanding Spiritually…is weighing this truth AND choice to believe it or not.

Parables IN the Secular Carnal logical understanding is a STORY, true but typically Fictional, to make a point about a particular topic.

Parables IN the Spiritual understanding….Has a truth that is familiar to manKind….YET when a Parable is SPOKEN by He (JESUS ) who IS the truth…(recalling, Jesus saying HE IS the truth, the way, the life….)
He CAN NOT LIE…
EVERY THING He spoke IS TRUTH….regardless if his “speech style” is called…a story, a rhyme, a poem, a song, a fairytale, a Parable…

Men are familiar with EATING bread, a long time, for centuries, grain made into bread and a common staple of mans diet to eat to sustain their life….
While bread WILL suitably sustain mans life for YEARS…eventually that mans body SHALL die. (God requires it).

Jesus is INTRODUCING an offering for manKIND, TO eat…that will sustain his life Forever…Jesus Body.

Well…WHO IS “Jesus”? The Word of God.
So what is man REALLY being told to EAT…?
Gods Word….

It is the difference between secular understanding which IS good for a mortal living man….but what about beyond life of the mortal body…? The Lord reveals the Truth…OPTION…take it or leave it…

God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken