Why is God So Mean?

[aspen]

Robbie, if the Bible contradicts itself, please tell me which is wrong: you or the Bible? You see, if the Bible contradicts itself, it cannot be trusted as the Word of God. If that is the case, how can we really know Jesus, since the Bible's entire message is about Jesus? If you cannot stand on the Bible, you have no foundation whatsoever! The moment you say the Bible cannot be trusted, you have just removed any possible support for yourself. From experience, if the Bible 'contradicts' it is more than probable that we are looking at it from the wrong perspective. The Bible cannot contradict or it is not trustworthy and therefore we are all lost, since we cannot be sure which parts of the Bible are trustworthy!

I am just wondering.....was the Bible crucified on a cross, died, buried and resurrected on the third day?

 

[Robbie]

The foundation of my faith isn't based on whether the bible contradicts itself... it's based on knowing the Father through Jesus Christ... Who is God's Word... and Who lives in me... PERIOD...

 

[Groundzero]

I am just wondering.....was the Bible crucified on a cross, died, buried and resurrected on the third day?

No, but how do we know about the ONE who was? Through the Bible! If we cannot trust the Bible, we cannot trust if that account is true!

 

[Robbie]

That's not correct... maybe if the whole book was written by one person and he contradicted himself it would cause me to doubt his testimony to Jesus... but John and Mathew didn't write their testimonies so they could be apart of the bible... they wrote their testimonies to testify to the Word of God Who is Jesus... and that has no relevance to the other books... even if they were compiled into the same bible... and when I read Mathew for the first time I knew within myself that Jesus is God.. it wasn't because Jesus was in agreement with Moses (actually the first bible I got only had the New Testament) I believed because when I read Mathew's testimony to Jesus and what He did and the Word's He spoke I knew within myself that Jesus is God's Word... that Jesus is God...

So you're mistaken... and I don't really care if your religion disagrees with me... and I agree with Fire... the God of the old testament is confusing and definitely contradicts Jesus... why's that? probably because people were seeing God through a veil and were mistaken about certain things...

For the Law came through Moses... but grace and TRUTH came through Jesus Christ.

If you want to build a tabernacle to Moses, Elijah and Jesus and put them all on the same level go ahead.. but as for as me... I listen to our Father's warning... Jesus is His beloved Son... I hear Him alone... and whether the bible contradicts itself or not has no relevance... because I don't know God through a book or a veil... I know Him through His Son... Jesus Christ... the only way to the Father...

 

[Groundzero]

That's not correct... maybe if the whole book was written by one person and he contradicted himself it would cause me to doubt his testimony to Jesus... but John and Mathew didn't write their testimonies so they could be apart of the bible... they wrote their testimonies to testify to the Word of God Who is Jesus... and that has no relevance to the other books... even if they were compiled into the same bible... and when I read Mathew for the first time I knew within myself that Jesus is God.. it wasn't because Jesus was in agreement with Moses (actually the first bible I got only had the New Testament) I believed because when I read Mathew's testimony to Jesus and what He did and the Word's He spoke I knew within myself that Jesus is God's Word... that Jesus is God...

So you're mistaken... and I don't really care if your religion disagrees with me... and I agree with Fire... the God of the old testament is confusing and definitely contradicts Jesus... why's that? probably because people were seeing God through a veil and were mistaken about certain things...

For the Law came through Moses... but grace and TRUTH came through Jesus Christ.

If you want to build a tabernacle to Moses, Elijah and Jesus and put them all on the same level go ahead.. but as for as me... I listen to our Father's warning... Jesus is His beloved Son... I hear Him alone... and whether the bible contradicts itself or not has no relevance... because I don't know God through a book or a veil... I know Him through His Son... Jesus Christ... the only way to the Father...

O, I see what you are saying. The God of the OT is different to the God of the NT! Well the NT doesn't agree! Unless of course, only some of the NT is inspired by God!


2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:



2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.


It seems to be that Jesus not only backed up the OT, but fulfilled the prophecies it gave concerning him!


Joh_17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.


Mat_19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.


Hebrews 11. This chapter is full of OT people! Paul believed the OT to be inspired by God!




You stated that the God of the OT contradicts Jesus. Really?! Answer this:


Who created the world? Jesus!
John 1:3 All things were made by him (That is, the Word, which was made flesh); and without him was not any thing made that was made.
1Co_8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.


Who is the Lord? Jesus! Eph. 4:4 says that there is ONE Lord, and then in 1 Cor. 8:6 it says that there is ONE LORD JESUS!


Jesus claimed to be before Abraham! Joh_8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Tell me, how could Jesus NOT be the God of the OT?


Guess what? Hate to break the news to you, but if it wasn't for Scripture, you wouldn't know ANYTHING about Jesus! And there would be no proof that he existed!


Something else. Why is it that people seem to think Moses was some type of God? He was merely a man who God used!


Heb_10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

 

[Robbie]

Guess what... hate to break the news to you... but if you think without paper and ink I can't know God you've just denied the Spirit and the direct access Jesus made possible when he destroyed the sin that separated me from God on the cross ... so take your dead religion that's nothing but a white washed tomb and get lost...oh never mind... you already are...

 

[Groundzero]

Guess what... hate to break the news to you... but if you think without paper and ink I can't know God you've just denied the Spirit and the direct access Jesus made possible when he destroyed the sin that separated me from God on the cross ... so take your dead religion that's nothing but a white washed tomb and get lost...oh never mind... you already are...

Wow. Such beautiful language. Have fun.

Guess what... hate to break the news to you... but if you think without paper and ink I can't know God you've just denied the Spirit and the direct access Jesus made possible when he destroyed the sin that separated me from God on the cross ... so take your dead religion that's nothing but a white washed tomb and get lost...oh never mind... you already are...

And don't worry about the Scriptures, even though they are all NT. They won't do a thing.

You have confessed that you are friends with the world/ homosexuals.

"A friend of the world is the enemy of God."s

I am a friend with homosexuals! The only reason I am a friend is because if I'm not their friend, they are my enemy!

 

[Robbie]

Jesus isn't a book... Jesus is God's Word... and He lives in His... and if He doesn't live in you... you're not His... betta examine yourself...

 

[Robbie]

If you think you need paper and ink you better rethink cause it's only by the Spirit you can really hear it... God's Word deep within thanks to the cross that broke down the walls that separated the Father from us... the Son in the Father and the Father in the Son and thanks to the cross we're all ONE!!!

 

[rockytopva]

If it were not for rebellion there would be no 'mean' side of God. All of this started when satan introduced arrogance into the universe and took a third of the angels with him in rebellion. God's intentions for us are good if we are willing to be obedient...

If they obey and serve him, they shall spend their days in prosperity, and their years in pleasures. - Job 36:11

O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever! Deuteronomy 5:29

Even Abraham... Had he stayed obedient to God's promise and waited, and had Isaac only... Can you imagine how much better this world would be? It's mans desire to go out on his own and have things his way that brings us all the misfortunes we see...

Even Plato said...

Then God, if he be good,
is not the author of all things, as the many assert, but he is the cause of a few things
only, and not of most things that occur to men. For few are the goods of human life,
and many are the evils, and the good is to be attributed to God alone; of the evils the
causes are to be sought elsewhere, and not in him. - Plato's Republic

 

[BibleScribe]

...
Have you seen this recent testimony of a girl, Angelica Zambrano, who claims to have gone to hell for 23 hours and saw Selena Quintanilla, Michael Jackson, and children in hell? http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

I haven't seen it, and don't doubt the potential for the first two citations, but I would suspect that "children" under the age of accountability (understood to be ~13) would NOT be present, -- except as cited where the husband has committed suicide and he spends eternity following his wife and two children begging forgiveness. Then it is HE who is in hell, and the wife and children are simply a figment of his guilt.

But GOD makes a way for those who desire HIS face. However, if one places a higher priority on their flesh (greed, pleasure) then it's certainly their choice where they end up. And I would propose it's not speculation, but a certainty, -- either way. The only question is what the individual chooses.


BibleScribe

 

[Goinheix]

I was going to use a more philosophical, intellectual title to address this matter, but the bible itself says of itself that it is so simple that a fool shouldn't err. So, like a child, I'm keeping it simple, because there really is no other way to put it.

I was born and raised in the pentecostal church. I no longer claim Christianity, but in my search for knowing God, I still listen to sermons. The sermons I listen to are usually by black hellfire and brimstone preachers, because that;s what I'm most familiar with. I don't know if you're familiar with a man named G Craig Lewis. But if you are, then you have an idea of the type of ministers I listen to. What I honestly have a hard time understanding is why it feels to me that God is hell-bent on sending me to hell?

You might think that I'm exaggerating when I make this statement, but I am by no means being overdramatic. I try very hard to believe that when these preachers say "God loves you but hates your sin," that they mean it. I try with everything within me to believe that these people really love me. But I have to be honest. I have never felt love coming from these preachers. I always feel that they are just saying what they have been taught to say, if they aren't just in it for the show. I do believe that some of them are genuine and sincere. But you can also be sincerely wrong.

even all of these testimonies I have ben hearing over the years of people who died and went to hell, and were brought back to tell about it. I listen closely, and what I gather is that it is very hard to make it into Heaven. And I don;t undertand if God really wants people in Heaven, why He made it so hard to get in. It just doesn't seem right. It seems to me like He plays favorites. But why create people just to throw them in hell. It's almost like He enjoys it. Even many preacher talk as if they're glad there is a hell and glad you're going. It's like if you don't live up to THEIR standard (personal hidden agenda), you can't do anything right, and for that you ARE going to hell. I also don;t understand why God is so hard on homosexuals when He created the very biology that made them that way. And don;t tell me that they weren't born that way, because I am one.

Unless you have seen things through, of course, you cannot fully understand where I'm coming from, and most of this is just hot air to you. And this is another thing; Christians are poor listeners and bad at understanding. They just love to judge others so they can (secretly... and often unconsciously)feel better about themselves. I know this because I've spent my lifetime (29 years) around them. I've seen Christians of every kind, so I know what I'm talking about. But I would literally be here for a couple of days describing to you all of the contradictions I have observed throughout this exclusive belief system.

And as much as I want to know God and be His closest friend, I feel that He doesn't really want to get to know me, but is just out to play mind games with me. I'm not being irreverent or sacrilerious: I'm just being honest. It makes me not feel like praying, even though I want to. It makes me not want to read the bible, because it's full of contradictions (and don't tell me there aren't, when they are very blatant). God just seems, to me, to be the cruelest, most cold blooded, hard hearted, unforgiving, stone faced, dominating, ruthless, non caring, bi-polar, sadistic, spiteful, wicked terrorist of all time.

Have you seen this recent testimony of a girl, Angelica Zambrano, who claims to have gone to hell for 23 hours and saw Selena Quintanilla, Michael Jackson, and children in hell? http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

God is mean because there is not shuch thing as the grey zone. You are good or evil, it is true or lie; we are life or dead. God is mean and he expect christians to be hot or cold, to be with him or against him, not grey zone. God is mean and he expect we are mean.

 

[THE Gypsy]

If you think you need paper and ink you better rethink cause it's only by the Spirit you can really hear it... God's Word deep within thanks to the cross that broke down the walls that separated the Father from us... the Son in the Father and the Father in the Son and thanks to the cross we're all ONE!!!

I was kicked out of a group because I said the Bible "contains" the word of God but it does not contain "God". <_<

 

[Duckybill]

No, but how do we know about the ONE who was? Through the Bible! If we cannot trust the Bible, we cannot trust if that account is true!

Excellent point. I have made the same point to Aspen to no apparent avail. Many like to profess to be Christians but imply that the God of the Bible is a "monster". Strange indeed.

 

[martinlawrencescott]

In my personal testimony, when I invited Christ into my heart, my life improved drastically. I was healed from depression and suicidal thoughts, set free from the bondage of pornography, and the idles of time wasting that trashed my life. God blessed my physical and mental well-being, even though what is truly important is my eternal well being. But the gospel is a message of eternal life, not temporary prosperity. It is a hard thing as a Christian to experience a life transforming work from God, then to fall away when we begin to understand the cost of being one of Christ's disciples. God has blessed me with what he has so that I can be a like blessing to others. Whether I have much or little, what I have to offer others is dependent on God's unlimited grace, and not limited by my physical/genetic/mental lot in life which was influenced by sin after the fall of man. Obedience is a gift from God that I can't take credit for, but now I am in submission to the Spirit of God, and I am given the strength each day to submit my will unto God's will. Until the day when everything I want to do is everything God already wants me to do. That is true freedom.

The fact is that I deserve nothing. The fact that I can consider God in any way I choose is arrogance if I don't agree with his proven character. God is loving and God is kind. His kindness is what leads us to repentance. It is this fact that leads us to offer up our hearts to God and say "Dear Father, I was created by you and for you. I want to follow you and obey your word no matter the cost." Which of God's commandments haven't I broken? But God is faithful to hear us and promises us the grace to do his will and forgive us and cleanse us of all unrighteousness when we don't. When we understand that God gave everything for us, we can then begin to understand his love, and by his loving kindness we are drawn to the cross. That is where we make the decision to take up our own cross daily. That is when we choose to carry the symbol of our death on our shoulders every moment, because we identify ourselves now with true love which is recognized by God's sacrifice of his son on the cross so that we may become his children, born of his spirit, and transformed of mind and heart into inheritors of his resurrected life.

God gave us everything when we deserved nothing. Let us make the choice today to give God our everything, to live every moment for and one day die for God who deserves our everything, because he is holy and worthy of all of our praise.

God bless you guys and remember it is by how we love one another that the world will see we are his disciples. What good is it to gain the whole world, but lose your soul?

 

[Duckybill]

So you're mistaken... and I don't really care if your religion disagrees with me... and I agree with Fire... the God of the old testament is confusing and definitely contradicts Jesus... why's that? probably because people were seeing God through a veil and were mistaken about certain things...

For the Law came through Moses... but grace and TRUTH came through Jesus Christ.

If you want to build a tabernacle to Moses, Elijah and Jesus and put them all on the same level go ahead.. but as for as me... I listen to our Father's warning... Jesus is His beloved Son... I hear Him alone... and whether the bible contradicts itself or not has no relevance... because I don't know God through a book or a veil... I know Him through His Son... Jesus Christ... the only way to the Father...

As was said before, if the Bible contradicts itself then it is not the Word of God and certainly not reliable. The problem is not the Bible. The problem is with humans who think they know more than God.

 

[aspen]

As was said before, if the Bible contradicts itself then it is not the Word of God and certainly not reliable. The problem is not the Bible. The problem is with humans who think they know more than God.

Of course, you have to realize that your reasoning protects against all contradictions in the Bible, right? Anytime a contradiction is pointed out, you start your mental-gymnastic routine - 'it's the reader, not the Bible'! Thinking be damned! I was about to ask how you expect to learn anything with that type of circular reasoning - then I remembered - you want security, not knowledge. This type of reasoning is what perpetuated the Dark Ages. When science conforms itself to the Bible instead of experimental hypothesis, we are subject to anti-intellectual theories that are frozen in time.

Why are you so afraid of contradictions? Isn't it time to drop that crazy standard? It is ridiculous to set the Bible up to fail like you do - 'if the Bible has contradictions, it is unreliable' - absurd!

BTW, Is Lot Abraham's brother or nephew?

 

[Duckybill]

I am a friend with homosexuals! The only reason I am a friend is because if I'm not their friend, they are my enemy!

So who would you rather have for an enemy, homosexuals or God? Friendship with the world is spiritual adultery against God. That's one of the reasons that Israel fell.

James 4
4 You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

Jesus isn't a book... Jesus is God's Word... and He lives in His... and if He doesn't live in you... you're not His... betta examine yourself...

How do you know Jesus/God if not from the Bible?

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

Isn't fire a homosexual? So Aspen, why do you have so many unChristian friends?

"A friend of the world is the enemy of God."

Now, this is just an attack to be antagonistic. You're wrong for this one.

 

[Duckybill]

Now, this is just an attack to be antagonistic. You're wrong for this one.

No it isn't. Please dispute what I have said, rather than 'attacking' me.