Why is the bible so murky and confusing?

[bbyrd009]

'The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul:
the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.'
(Psalm 19:7)

Hi @bbyrd009,

I don't understand such terms as 'Naive Dialectic' or 'think Tao':

Logical and Dialectical Reasoning in Scripture

but looking at the list of what you perceive to be contradictions, I would have liked to have looked them up, had you provided a reference, for the context of each would have shown the reason why each one was said, thereby explaining their 'apparent' contradiction. For I believe that God in no way contradicts Himself, and it only appears so because we have not sufficiently explored the reasons for their use.

Thank you
in Christ Jesus
Chris

ok well google can take you to any of those fwiw, we have auto-ref now!

I found one on google:

Naïve dialecticism contains certain concepts that distinguish it from Western thinking and beliefs, specifically they have different beliefs about change and contradiction. Dialectic thinking involves treating the world as consisting of co-existing extremes or opposites (e.g. hot/cold or light/dark).

By that definition it is what I have been teaching, that many on here take offense to. The apostles were "Eastern" thinking, but most of us are "Western" thinking. You must know the Semitic writing styles of the east to understand what an eastern writer is meaning. Such as 1 John 1:5-10 are contrasts of light/dark. Many westerners believe the dark 1 John 1:8 is describing a Christian, even though the light next verse shows cleansing of ALL sin, taking us from sinner to saint - a child of God, 1 John 3:1.

Light: 1 John 1:5, 7, 9
Dark: 1 John 1:6, 8, 10

But, I'm far from "Naive."

ha no kidding. we have all eaten the fruit of the tree of knowledge i guess

Naming that definition must have been made by a westerner. LOL Though, to be honest, I am clueless as to what "think Tao" means. Tao, New Mexico????

The Tao of Pooh - Wikipedia

 

[farouk]

"Study to show thyself approved."

Don't just leave it up to denominational pastors to tell you what God's word says and means.

@CharismaticLady We all need to search the Scriptures, indeed...

 

[Trekson]

Yes, but bible nor the priests was never mention about the temptation from the beast of this world, isn't it ?
Many are told, that the source of the sin are from within ourselves, but because of the law itself was spiritual (Romans 7:14) then we made focus to our obsession to obey the law, the devil always uses wave to whispering our mind to covet, and our mind is similar to computer server which will do everything as told. The attack of the devil/Evil one of this world will mostly used psychological warfare and false flag propaganda by using the main stream media and the method is similar of using brute force attack or dDos (distributed denial of service) attack into our mind to make our mind tired and burdening our heart & feeling to become hurt, and the hurts are make as a cleft for the devil to trap our will as the devil's prisoners. No wonder, many korean artists are made suicide because of dDos attack of hoax into their private lives.

The bible does mention the temptations that we all face, ie "the fiery darts of the wicked". When we belong to the devil he leaves us alone but when we get saved, he fights tooth and nail to get us back to our life of sin. Since he lost us, the most he can hope for is that by besieging us w/ trials and tribulations maybe he can weaken us enough so that we will be ineffective believers.

 

[bbyrd009]

The bible does mention the temptations that we all face, ie "the fiery darts of the wicked". When we belong to the devil he leaves us alone but when we get saved, he fights tooth and nail to get us back to our life of sin. Since he lost us, the most he can hope for is that by besieging us w/ trials and tribulations maybe he can weaken us enough so that we will be ineffective believers.

no offense ok but boxing at the air comes to mind there

 

[Trekson]

no offense ok but boxing at the air comes to mind there

Don't knock it til you try it. I know it's real. I'm not Catholic but over the years I've assisted in 2 exorcisms, I've seen the power of prayer result in physical healings, I've seen people become overcomers of sin in many aspects of their lives. Jesus helped me overcome a life of drugs and dealing, drinking, partying, etc. No, it wasn't right away but I used my sword which is the word of God and fought until I was delivered by God from that lifestyle. Since the devil is in the spiritual plane, "boxing at the air" is kind of a truism, but it works. If we try these things depending on our own will power we will fail. Spiritual warfare in a real church is part of Christianity 101. Most churches don't preach much about the power we have as believers. Christ told us that we would do greater things than he did w/ the power of the Holy Spirit. Paul tells us to put on the armor and prepare to fight the good fight of faith because w/o faith it is impossible to please God. The lack of effort you describe is being lukewarm and as we know God doesn't like that. So, no offense but whoever is teaching you that bullcrap should drive you to find a more effective actual bible-believing church!!

 

[bbyrd009]

Don't knock it til you try it. I know it's real. I'm not Catholic but over the years I've assisted in 2 exorcisms, I've seen the power of prayer result in physical healings, I've seen people become overcomers of sin in many aspects of their lives. Jesus helped me overcome a life of drugs and dealing, drinking, partying, etc. No, it wasn't right away but I used my sword which is the word of God and fought until I was delivered by God from that lifestyle. Since the devil is in the spiritual plane, "boxing at the air" is kind of a truism, but it works. If we try these things depending on our own will power we will fail. Spiritual warfare in a real church is part of Christianity 101. Most churches don't preach much about the power we have as believers. Christ told us that we would do greater things than he did w/ the power of the Holy Spirit. Paul tells us to put on the armor and prepare to fight the good fight of faith because w/o faith it is impossible to please God. The lack of effort you describe is being lukewarm and as we know God doesn't like that. So, no offense but whoever is teaching you that bullcrap should drive you to find a more effective actual bible-believing church!!

ok then, ty

 

[marks]

Further to the above... Why do some believe error even though they have scripture before them? Dull hearts. They are not ready for truth because truth may even destroy what faith they now have. God is patient, Her doesn't demand we all believe the same thing at the same time. We all have our own growth rates. And when we grow and nature, and we are able to stand in truth, then He reveals that to us... Using the very same scriptures we before we understood quite differently. Even the disciples themselves were not ready for anything God wanted to show them.

Hi Backlit,

I think it has a lot to do with obedience. If we are unwilling to use what we've received, I wonder whether we will receive more.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Are you saying that people shouldn't try to stop sinning?

From what I've seen in the Bible, and seen in my life, you don't stop sinning by trying not to sin. That will pretty much ensure that you continue.

But begin trusting in Jesus, that we are fully reconciled to God, with no hindrance, justified in Christ's death and resurrection. Knowing that nothing can separate me from God, not even sin anymore, this is what allows me to not sin.

Much love!

 

[Brakelite]

Hi Backlit,

I think it has a lot to do with obedience. If we are unwilling to use what we've received, I wonder whether we will receive more.

Much love!

Good point. Yes.

 

[bbyrd009]

Hi Backlit,

I think it has a lot to do with obedience. If we are unwilling to use what we've received, I wonder whether we will receive more.

Much love!

kinda hard to learn if you're focused on teaching, eh
the 70 are sent ostensibly to proclaim the Good News, right, but there are instructions in there that are about anything but proclaiming, imo
dont talk to anyone on the road
stay in one house while you are there
eat what they feed you

 

[Mark51]

The ten commandments is straightforward. Many of Jesus' commands are too. But much of it is very convoluted, as evidenced by the debates here on interpretations.

Why did God make it this way?

The differences in opinions, beliefs, doctrines, ideologies and so forth are not caused by God. They are manifested by imperfect human with the influence from Satan. The follow scriptures may help getting the sense of my point: Matthew 10:16; 13:3-23; 36:39-43; John 12:31; Acts 20:29; 2 Corinthians 4:4; James 1:13; 1 John 5:19.

 

[WaterSong]

The ten commandments is straightforward. Many of Jesus' commands are too. But much of it is very convoluted, as evidenced by the debates here on interpretations.

Why did God make it this way?

Maybe God isn't the one responsible? He is not the author of confusion. However, we know humans are. Many councils gathered over hundreds of years to canonize scripture we have today. Politics was involved of course because the first council was that convened by the Roman emperor Constantine in 325A.D..
Some schools of thought claim Constantine had nothing to do with the council's work. That's not true though. It would be odd for an emperor of the Roman empire to convene bishops from around Rome's territories to then stay out of the proceedings entirely. The other question one may wish to consider in that regard is, isn't it odd how 200+ years after Rome executed Christ that its current emperor would not only legalize the faith Christ was put to death for, but would also seek to codify what it meant to believe in the Christ?

Maybe that is why in scripture we're told not to believe every spirit but to test them. Ask yourself, does this comport with the foundation of God's words to us? The old testament is the foundation of the new. Jesus is in the old testament as well.

My advice, pray and ask God to open your eyes were you see confusion. If you're like me you'll see the message in the new testament almost glow as it lifts off the page in that passage you're considering and to show you God's words.
The first faith? To believe God himself wrote the bible. He didn't. Fallible men did. Fallible men empowered to tell the world what God has to say to them, and for their own purposes at that, convened to decide in considering innumerable scrolls, parchments, what within them constituted God's word. And after deciding on a blueprint for that message.
Further? Those men did not have the autographs, the originals, to consider. They reviewed copies, of copies, of copies.
It isn't like today if you walk into a library and see bound books wall to wall for your consideration.
There were fragments, partial bits missing from scrolls, and parchments.

One telling point that sustains those observations? Never since its publication has the Bible born the title, God's words. Or God's word.
Because that would be blasphemy given man's part in the process.

Trust God to lead you.When you are in Christ you have holy spirit God indwelling you. He speaks to you, his laws are written on your heart that you are never removed from them. From God all things come to exist. God is within all that he has created. You are never separated from the holy source that loves you eternally.
Colossians 1:16 For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18And He is the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning and firstborn from among the dead, so that in all things He may have preeminence.


Ask God to guide you when you open the Bible to study what he wants to say.

Acts 7 The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples made by human hands
Acts 17:24-25 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; 25 Neither is worshiped with men's hands, as though he needed anything, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

 

[Nancy]

Maybe God isn't the one responsible? He is not the author of confusion. However, we know humans are. Many councils gathered over hundreds of years to canonize scripture we have today. Politics was involved of course because the first council was that convened by the Roman emperor Constantine in 325A.D..
Some schools of thought claim Constantine had nothing to do with the council's work. That's not true though. It would be odd for an emperor of the Roman empire to convene bishops from around Rome's territories to then stay out of the proceedings entirely. The other question one may wish to consider in that regard is, isn't it odd how 200+ years after Rome executed Christ that its current emperor would not only legalize the faith Christ was put to death for, but would also seek to codify what it meant to believe in the Christ?

Maybe that is why in scripture we're told not to believe every spirit but to test them. Ask yourself, does this comport with the foundation of God's words to us? The old testament is the foundation of the new. Jesus is in the old testament as well.

My advice, pray and ask God to open your eyes were you see confusion. If you're like me you'll see the message in the new testament almost glow as it lifts off the page in that passage you're considering and to show you God's words.
The first faith? To believe God himself wrote the bible. He didn't. Fallible men did. Fallible men empowered to tell the world what God has to say to them, and for their own purposes at that, convened to decide in considering innumerable scrolls, parchments, what within them constituted God's word. And after deciding on a blueprint for that message.
Further? Those men did not have the autographs, the originals, to consider. They reviewed copies, of copies, of copies.
It isn't like today if you walk into a library and see bound books wall to wall for your consideration.
There were fragments, partial bits missing from scrolls, and parchments.

One telling point that sustains those observations? Never since its publication has the Bible born the title, God's words. Or God's word.
Because that would be blasphemy given man's part in the process.

Trust God to lead you.When you are in Christ you have holy spirit God indwelling you. He speaks to you, his laws are written on your heart that you are never removed from them. From God all things come to exist. God is within all that he has created. You are never separated from the holy source that loves you eternally.
Colossians 1:16 For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18And He is the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning and firstborn from among the dead, so that in all things He may have preeminence.

Ask God to guide you when you open the Bible to study what he wants to say.
To believe God himself wrote the bible. He didn't. Fallible men did. Fallible men empowered to tell the world what God has to say to them, and for their own purposes at that, convened to decide in considering innumerable scrolls, parchments, what within them constituted God's word. And after deciding on a blueprint for that message.
Further? Those men did not have the autographs, the originals, to consider. They reviewed copies, of copies, of copies.

"My advice, pray and ask God to open your eyes were you see confusion. If you're like me you'll see the message in the new testament almost glow as it lifts off the page in that passage you're considering and to show you God's words."

Yes, always! And no, He is NOT the author of confusion, Amen!

"To believe God himself wrote the bible. He didn't. Fallible men did. Fallible men empowered to tell the world what God has to say to them, and for their own purposes at that, convened to decide in considering innumerable scrolls, parchments, what within them constituted God's word. And after deciding on a blueprint for that message.
Further? Those men did not have the autographs, the originals, to consider. They reviewed copies, of copies, of copies."

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"
2 Timothy 3:16

I think that if God did not want something in the bible then, that's why it's not in there. These words were inspired by God Himself. There are NO mistakes with Him. Why would He leave us with something erroneous in which to know Him, to renew our minds, to know His precepts and His commands and His love... As far as "adding" to or "taking away" from the book of Revelations, this is where I see people "predicting" above and beyond what has been written already. God doesn't make mistakes and He would NEVER lead us astray through His own Spirit breathed word.

"...and for their own purposes at that"
Not sure what you mean by this.

I could be reading you wrong here and if so, I will be corrected

 

[charity]

The differences in opinions, beliefs, doctrines, ideologies and so forth are not caused by God. They are manifested by imperfect human with the influence from Satan. The follow scriptures may help getting the sense of my point: Matthew 10:16; 13:3-23; 36:39-43; John 12:31; Acts 20:29; 2 Corinthians 4:4; James 1:13; 1 John 5:19.

Hello @Mark51.

I agree that it not God's will that we should have differences of interpretation.

I believe God's word should be understood literally (grammatically & historically) taking into consideration figures of speech, types and shadows etc., However, there are those who believe that it should be understood allegorically, and others that it should be spiritualized. I believe that the latter two methods are damaging to the truth.

The words of Matthew 13:28(a) reflect my thoughts on this:- 'He said unto them, "An enemy hath done this?"'

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Davy]

Thanks. The thing is, I've never based my belief in Christ on the bible. I've always had faith and everything that I have seen throughout my life has only confirmed my faith.

Rom 10:13-17
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
KJV

Hearing and having Faith is only the first step. Those in Christ Jesus are to have works in Him also. How does a follower of Christ know what kind of works to do for Him, and what works to follow? By getting into His Word to find out, and NOT trying to go it alone in thinking to be one's own Christ.

 

[101G]

The ten commandments is straightforward. Many of Jesus' commands are too. But much of it is very convoluted, as evidenced by the debates here on interpretations.

Why did God make it this way?

Addressing the OP only.

the bible is not murky nor confusing. it is man who is murky and confusing. the Lord Jesus is the LIGHT, (knowledge and understanding), but we seek after men, (darkness), and not the one who is LIGHT. listen and listen carefully,

Jeremiah 31:31 "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:"Jeremiah 31:32 "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:"Jeremiah 31:33 "But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people."Jeremiah 31:34 "And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

ok, well how is he going to be KNOWN by all men? answer, he will TEACH THEM, supportive scripture, John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

HOLD IT STOP THE PRESS, he shall teach you ......... all things, YES, all things. what is left out of "ALL THINGS?"..... answer, NOTHING.

the Lord Jesus, will TEACH US "ALL THINGS" if we let him. scripture, 1 Corinthians 2:13 "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual." BINGO.

1 Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

the reason why the bible is murky and confusing to some men and women is ....... BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE WRONG "TEACHER". we highly suggest, no better, Highly recommend that one get the Holy Spirit as your teacher, and ask in faith for him to teach you.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Yan]

The bible does mention the temptations that we all face, ie "the fiery darts of the wicked". When we belong to the devil he leaves us alone but when we get saved, he fights tooth and nail to get us back to our life of sin. Since he lost us, the most he can hope for is that by besieging us w/ trials and tribulations maybe he can weaken us enough so that we will be ineffective believers.

Yes, but how could it be that some of the false accusation are coming from inside the church itself ?
Does everybody are being used by the Lord or by the forces of this world ?
I think all people were experiencing the same, look at those artist who were experiencing the same. They had been struggle in tribulation too.

See the lyric of this song below was also have the same struggle "You're fine for a while but you start to lose control" similar to these verses (1 Peter 5:8-9; Luke 11:24-26; Hosea 7:1-2), the evil one won't let you loose in every inch of minutes from their sighting and rape; the evil one tried to separated us from the grace of the Lord. Because the evil one of this world got a money from our sins (Hosea 4:8), from gossip and rumour they feed our society with their sins and they got money from it.

Hosea 4:8 (BBE)
The sin of my people is like food to them; and their desire is for their wrongdoing.

 

[Yan]

The differences in opinions, beliefs, doctrines, ideologies and so forth are not caused by God. They are manifested by imperfect human with the influence from Satan. The follow scriptures may help getting the sense of my point: Matthew 10:16; 13:3-23; 36:39-43; John 12:31; Acts 20:29; 2 Corinthians 4:4; James 1:13; 1 John 5:19.

There is no Matthew 36:39-43, are you sleepy ?

They are manifested by imperfect human with the influence from Satan

Yup, these verses are support it (Psalms 116:11; Romans 3:4; 1 Corinthians 13:8-9).

 

[WaterSong]

"My advice, pray and ask God to open your eyes were you see confusion. If you're like me you'll see the message in the new testament almost glow as it lifts off the page in that passage you're considering and to show you God's words."

Yes, always! And no, He is NOT the author of confusion, Amen!

"To believe God himself wrote the bible. He didn't. Fallible men did. Fallible men empowered to tell the world what God has to say to them, and for their own purposes at that, convened to decide in considering innumerable scrolls, parchments, what within them constituted God's word. And after deciding on a blueprint for that message.
Further? Those men did not have the autographs, the originals, to consider. They reviewed copies, of copies, of copies."

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"
2 Timothy 3:16

I think that if God did not want something in the bible then, that's why it's not in there. These words were inspired by God Himself. There are NO mistakes with Him. Why would He leave us with something erroneous in which to know Him, to renew our minds, to know His precepts and His commands and His love... As far as "adding" to or "taking away" from the book of Revelations, this is where I see people "predicting" above and beyond what has been written already. God doesn't make mistakes and He would NEVER lead us astray through His own Spirit breathed word.

"...and for their own purposes at that"
Not sure what you mean by this.

I could be reading you wrong here and if so, I will be corrected

What I mean by that is as pertains to study of early Christian history and the cobbling together of what we today consider the Biblical canon of scripture.
Long experience has let me to understand I cannot inform anyone not familiar with those particulars. It is something they should feel led to find and study for themselves. I think it helps a great deal to understand that if those involved in the canonization process over many centuries were inclined to follow the leading of the holy spirit there would not be such a history as what is delineated in that process.
Further, here's a test to perhaps consider what I've proposed. Perhaps personal experience has let one to find this out already. Say, in a Christian forum where doctrine is discussed.
Pose a question on any topic within the field of Apologetics, Soterilogy, etc... to a group of gathered Christians.
Do they all concur with the specifics under that topic? Let's say, the Trinity.

If the answer is no, imagine why that is. Imagine if you will all the denominational constructs and their doctrines. They're different in many respects. Each one.
Why?

It is an awesome power over generations into the eternal earthly future for those who believe they are charged with speaking for God. Which is what occurred when we are told God inspired the scripture. And do not be misled by my observations after years of study. I love the Bible. I feel it is a part of me and couldn't do without it. However, I think we err if we come to a place in our journey with God wherein we believe in the bible.

That is not at all what God intended. There was no new testament when the apostles brought the good news. There was the old testament for those Jews to whom they spoke. There was no such reference for the gentiles. And yet, the great commission had the apostles go into the whole world and bring the good news. An oral practice, an oral teaching, an oral tradition for over a generation.

One would think the chronological order of the new testament aligns with the order of the books in the new testament. That's not true. This is why in many cases when we read a chapter in one book say in the synoptic gospels we find when that chapter ends the next one doesn't pick up where that prior one left off.

Did you know the first gospel , when all are anonymous, is that of James? Written in 50 A.D.

This is why I note mans involvement tends to reflect man's nature. For instance this list. Which includes OT books. In both links below pay attention to the order of NT books.

Chronological order of the books of the Bible.

Now, compare to what is here in the same type of list. Chronological order new testament books

To be clear, it is not ever my intention to violate any rule there may be concerning my observations. I was , as we all were who read this board, asked a question. Why is the bible so murky and confusing?

I will tell you the words of holy spirit that rang in my mind when reading this thread title was those found in the book of John.
"You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life."

Remember that challenge? Ask a question in the study of Apologetics, Soterilogy? The unity of the church, the faithful in Christ not a structure called church, is not.
Why? Because for centuries we've come to believe in doctrines often named after those who invented them. And as such we've been led to believe in different ways what it means to be in Christ. And what it means to be saved. When in truth Jesus teachings informed us it is a very compelling and easy method which one may employ in order to believe and be saved.

Man, this is a long response. But, you asked. An example. A few years ago I met a Christian woman who lived by the belief that had it not been for the Jews refusing to accept Jesus was the prophesied messiah of the old testament Gentiles would not be saved.

I've spoken with Christians who believe God predestined whom he would save before he created anything at all. And knew those chosen ones by their name. And those and only those persons are saved. Not because they find Christ because they are not capable of understanding the gospel as sinners. Rather, they are only saved after God permits that per-deterimened saved one to believe and hold faith. Which is why those whom he does not bestow that ability upon are not his chosen.


I've spoken with Christians who insist baptism with water was to cease after Jesus resurrected and returned to the father. Not infant baptism, all baptism.

From whence do those persons and others who hold other beliefs get their information in order to arrive at such beliefs?

In closing this near novelette, consider this observation entitled, The Everlasting Gospel, by William Blake. My interpretation won't help you. Consider yours after reading it. What's the message?
That is my point. Thank you for your enduring patience in reading this wall of text. I wish to be clear and to also assure you I mean no disrespect to the scriptures in sharing my answer to the OP question.


The Vision of Christ that thou dost see


Is my Vision’s Greatest Enemy.


Thine has a great hook nose like thine;


Mine has a snub nose like to mine.


Thine is the friend of All Mankind;


Mine speaks in parables to the Blind.


Thine loves the same world that mine hates;


Thy Heaven doors are my Hell Gates.


Socrates taught what Melitus


Loathd as a Nation’s bitterest Curse;


And Caiphas was in his own Mind


A benefactor to Mankind.


Both read the Bible day & night,


But thou readst black where I read white.

 

[Nancy]

What I mean by that is as pertains to study of early Christian history and the cobbling together of what we today consider the Biblical canon of scripture.
Long experience has let me to understand I cannot inform anyone not familiar with those particulars. It is something they should feel led to find and study for themselves. I think it helps a great deal to understand that if those involved in the canonization process over many centuries were inclined to follow the leading of the holy spirit there would not be such a history as what is delineated in that process.
Further, here's a test to perhaps consider what I've proposed. Perhaps personal experience has let one to find this out already. Say, in a Christian forum where doctrine is discussed.
Pose a question on any topic within the field of Apologetics, Soterilogy, etc... to a group of gathered Christians.
Do they all concur with the specifics under that topic? Let's say, the Trinity.

If the answer is no, imagine why that is. Imagine if you will all the denominational constructs and their doctrines. They're different in many respects. Each one.
Why?

It is an awesome power over generations into the eternal earthly future for those who believe they are charged with speaking for God. Which is what occurred when we are told God inspired the scripture. And do not be misled by my observations after years of study. I love the Bible. I feel it is a part of me and couldn't do without it. However, I think we err if we come to a place in our journey with God wherein we believe in the bible.

That is not at all what God intended. There was no new testament when the apostles brought the good news. There was the old testament for those Jews to whom they spoke. There was no such reference for the gentiles. And yet, the great commission had the apostles go into the whole world and bring the good news. An oral practice, an oral teaching, an oral tradition for over a generation.

One would think the chronological order of the new testament aligns with the order of the books in the new testament. That's not true. This is why in many cases when we read a chapter in one book say in the synoptic gospels we find when that chapter ends the next one doesn't pick up where that prior one left off.

Did you know the first gospel , when all are anonymous, is that of James? Written in 50 A.D.

This is why I note mans involvement tends to reflect man's nature. For instance this list. Which includes OT books. In both links below pay attention to the order of NT books.

Chronological order of the books of the Bible.

Now, compare to what is here in the same type of list. Chronological order new testament books

To be clear, it is not ever my intention to violate any rule there may be concerning my observations. I was , as we all were who read this board, asked a question. Why is the bible so murky and confusing?

I will tell you the words of holy spirit that rang in my mind when reading this thread title was those found in the book of John.
"You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life."

Remember that challenge? Ask a question in the study of Apologetics, Soterilogy? The unity of the church, the faithful in Christ not a structure called church, is not.
Why? Because for centuries we've come to believe in doctrines often named after those who invented them. And as such we've been led to believe in different ways what it means to be in Christ. And what it means to be saved. When in truth Jesus teachings informed us it is a very compelling and easy method which one may employ in order to believe and be saved.

Man, this is a long response. But, you asked. An example. A few years ago I met a Christian woman who lived by the belief that had it not been for the Jews refusing to accept Jesus was the prophesied messiah of the old testament Gentiles would not be saved.

I've spoken with Christians who believe God predestined whom he would save before he created anything at all. And knew those chosen ones by their name. And those and only those persons are saved. Not because they find Christ because they are not capable of understanding the gospel as sinners. Rather, they are only saved after God permits that per-deterimened saved one to believe and hold faith. Which is why those whom he does not bestow that ability upon are not his chosen.


I've spoken with Christians who insist baptism with water was to cease after Jesus resurrected and returned to the father. Not infant baptism, all baptism.

From whence do those persons and others who hold other beliefs get their information in order to arrive at such beliefs?

In closing this near novelette, consider this observation entitled, The Everlasting Gospel, by William Blake. My interpretation won't help you. Consider yours after reading it. What's the message?
That is my point. Thank you for your enduring patience in reading this wall of text. I wish to be clear and to also assure you I mean no disrespect to the scriptures in sharing my answer to the OP question.


The Vision of Christ that thou dost see


Is my Vision’s Greatest Enemy.


Thine has a great hook nose like thine;


Mine has a snub nose like to mine.


Thine is the friend of All Mankind;


Mine speaks in parables to the Blind.


Thine loves the same world that mine hates;


Thy Heaven doors are my Hell Gates.


Socrates taught what Melitus


Loathd as a Nation’s bitterest Curse;


And Caiphas was in his own Mind


A benefactor to Mankind.


Both read the Bible day & night,


But thou readst black where I read white.

Hello Watersong,
" However, I think we err if we come to a place in our journey with God wherein we believe in the bible."

I totally agree with you here. The bible is not to be worshipped or made to be an idol. It is how we know His character, His will, and so very much more. How else to know Him?

"Now these (Bareans) were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so."
Acts 17:11

"Pose a question on any topic within the field of Apologetics, Soterilogy, etc... to a group of gathered Christians.
Do they all concur with the specifics under that topic? Let's say, the Trinity."

Of course they NEVER concur, lol. Does not mean we are not brother and sister. God has His few within each denomination, each belief, either corporately or privately... only He knows our innermost thoughts. As long as one claims Christ as their Lord and God and Savior, in my book...we are in agreement with at least the core Christian message.

"If the answer is no, imagine why that is. Imagine if you will all the denominational constructs and their doctrines. They're different in many respects. Each one.
Why?"

Because of the doctrines of demons and the doctrines of man...IMO Corruptness, sin within the church being condoned. Just plain sin within the church! I suppose there could be a very long list as to why there is such division. Babes still on the milk cause that is what so many of the mainline church's of today only teach milk. So, many are bored but attend anyway, ya know...just in case! lol
My thoughts are that this division will remain till the day of Christ. That the wheat will grow with the tares. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯