Why is the book of Revelation so hard to read and understand?

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Wrangler

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The devil would like people to believe this so they can't see the prophecies being fulfilled
I don't know. A lot of people retro-actively "interpret" Nostradamus to prophecy correctly.

Said differently, can you use prophecy as a predictive tool? Such as X will happen in t-time and when that does a string of events will happen at predictable intervals?
 

O'Darby

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Well, Thomas Jefferson called Revelation the ravings of a madman and there was great controversy as to whether it belonged in the biblical canon at all - it just barely made it in. The apocalyptic genre as a whole is filled with bizarre language and imagery - and Revelation is a perfect example:

Apocalyptic literature, a literary genre that foretells supernaturally inspired cataclysmic events that will transpire at the end of the world. A product of the Judeo-Christian tradition, apocalyptic literature is characteristically pseudonymous; it takes narrative form, employs esoteric language, expresses a pessimistic view of the present, and treats the final events as imminent.​
It's always curious to me how prominent Revelation has become in modern times and how it seems to be an obsession with a certain species of Christian. If I were so inclined, I might see this obsession as one of the false teachings of the End Times, while the Revelation-obsessed insist it's just the opposite.

Revelation is confusing only if you think it's not supposed to be confusing. If you think it's supposed to be read and interpreted literally, it can be the route to almost a form of insanity. If you understand that it's speaking in broad themes to all believers at all times - First Century and Twenty-First Century alike - then it can be inspiring.
 

Hobie

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I don't know. A lot of people retro-actively "interpret" Nostradamus to prophecy correctly.

Said differently, can you use prophecy as a predictive tool? Such as X will happen in t-time and when that does a string of events will happen at predictable intervals?
So how many prophecies did Christ fulfill.. was that retro-actively 'interpreted' too..? The Bible lays it out and history shows it, that simple..
 

FaithWillDo

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Not according to the bible

Nor are you without an earthly body.

It is the law of the 2.
"If two on Earth shall agree as to touching anything it shall be done. "
Jesus is both a lion and a lamb he's not one or the other he is both.
We are both seated in Heavenly places in Christ Jesus, but also ,as Paul depicted many many times , we dwell on this Earth.
this is not our home ,but we are here until we die or we are raptured.
You're trying to make it "either/ or " ,when it is actually both
It is "the law of the two" meaning two truths in one dynamic.


A convert is one that has been born again.
Now there are several classes of convert
there are the carnal ones ,as you say ,and there are also babes in Christ that are just little toddlers .
they've not matured they're still rough around the edges and we disciple them and we Mentor them into maturity .
which is another level which would be the mature saint or the elders.
At the day of Pentecost there was the baptism of the Holy Spirit which also continued to be outboard upon Believers that were saved by the laying on of hands. ... Continuing Right on into today
And so I don't know if you've ever received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but that would be the game changer for the saint that's walking in a mental or carnal type of walk.
they're not walking in the spirit, and everything is mental to them.
And so then you have those that are baptized in the Holy Spirit ,and they are Spirit dominated. These that are baptized in the Holy Spirit they speak in tongues they lay hands on the sick they raise the Dead and the ones that are carnal they sit on the pews in church.
I think Paul said "let he who is spiritual restore such a one back into Fellowship".
That is directly speaking to those that walk in the spirit. That is also the dynamic that John is describing when he said "I was in the spirit on the Lord's Day"...
He was most likely in worship and he was sensing the presence and power of the Holy Spirit about him, so he was "in the spirit".
If you look it Romans chapter 8 paul defines "Spirit versus Walking In the Flesh"
he says there's no condemnation for those that walk after the spirit and not after the flesh
if I walk after the flesh I'm a carnal believer but I'm not unconverted
nor am I converted because I'm walking in the spirit I'm converted at Salvation
Dear rebuilder 454,
You said:
"If two on Earth shall agree as to touching anything it shall be done. "
Jesus is both a lion and a lamb he's not one or the other he is both.
We are both seated in Heavenly places in Christ Jesus, but also ,as Paul depicted many many times , we dwell on this Earth.
this is not our home ,but we are here until we die or we are raptured.
You're trying to make it "either/ or " ,when it is actually both
It is "the law of the two" meaning two truths in one dynamic.


My statement is spiritual just as these verses are spiritual:

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other (this occurs when Christ "comes again" with the Latter Rain).

2Thes 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
(this occurs when Christ "comes again" with the Latter Rain).

Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven (the converted Elect).

After an Elect believer is converted with the baptism of the Latter Rain of the Spirit and with Fire (judgment) (Mat 3:11), they will be gathered to heaven and will spiritually dwell with Christ even though they are still walking the earth.

In this same sense, unbelievers are said to dwell in the "sea" and unconverted believers are said to dwell on the "earth". Notice the progression to a higher level.

You said:
A convert is one that has been born again.

Being "born again" is synonymous with being given the Early Rain of the Spirit. This is the point when a person becomes a babe in Christ and is fed the milk of the Word. They will remain in this saved condition as long as they remain "faithful" while they are waiting for the Lord to return with the Latter Rain of the Spirit. After Christ "comes again" and has given the believer the Latter Rain of the Spirit & judgment, they will be converted. This is the point when a believer is "drawn from the breasts" and becomes as a "little child" who no longer needs milk.

Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

This scripture also applies:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

This truth is confirmed by Paul's conversion experience when Paul received the Early Rain of the Spirit on the Damascus Road. This is when Paul was given a measure of faith and first called Jesus "Lord". But Paul could not "see" Christ at that time. Paul's blindness represented his spiritual blindness. Paul then had to be led by the hand into Damascus (synonymous with Sodom & the Great Harlot). There in Damascus, Christ said that Paul would be told what to do. This is what happens to all new believers when they first enter the church. They will remain in this unconverted, carnal & spiritually blind condition until they physically die OR (if they are one of the Elect) until Christ comes to them a second time with the Latter Rain. With the Latter Rain, the Elect believer's spiritual blindness will be healed. This was "typed" in Paul's conversion story when the scales fell off Paul's eyes after Ananias (type for Christ) came to him. This is the point when Paul was converted and was able to eat "meat".

This truth about when a believer's spiritual blindness is healed is also presented in "type" in Mark 8:15-25. The first healing of the man's blindness represents the man receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit. At this point, the man is spiritually near-sighted (can only receive the milk of the Word). With the second healing, it represents the man receiving the Latter Rain of the Spirit. At this point, his spiritual blindness is healed and he can see every man clearly.

Christ also made this statement to Peter:

Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

At this time, Peter had only received the Early Rain of the Spirit and was spiritually blind and unconverted (as Mark 8:15:20 shows). When the Day of Pentecost arrived, Christ returned and baptized Peter with the Latter Rain of the Spirit and Fire (judgment). This is when Peter was converted.

Joe
 

ScottA

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The inscriptions in the book of Revelation must be referrenced in accordance with other scriptures throughout the bible in order to provide closure or fullness to all scriptures so that we will understand that when the "end of the age" occures, the second coming, it will complete the work that God started from the beginning in order to establish Gods righteous judgment and usher in the "TRUE" New World Order ruled by Christ Jesus who paid the price for our sake and by His grace to bring us from eternal death and damnation to resurrected life...eternal life and to see the challenges God faced and overcame by wisdom, that we could worship Him night and day eternally.

What I mean by referrencing, is to take what is contained in the seven seals, for example, and take each seal and referrence it against other scriptures that reveal them and then referrence the time of that occurance. You will discover that the signs of the moon and sun changing their countenance actually occur at the six bowl and trumpet. The same point of time as Armageddon. This removes all confussion of when do all these angels with bowls and trumpets occur.

Again, if you read Rev 4, the four horsemen, and read the devistation they unleash, it makes you wonder the referrence of time of occurance, and yet, if you understand, by previous referrencing, those events occured, you will begin to put the pieces together and ultimately see a time line of events occuring much more clearly. The book of Revelation does not always give us a perfect time line of when things happen, and that is what confuses many, many people.

Even when we read what we think is the perfect time line of events, and then discover inconsistancies, like In The Beginning, and then read Job, and God says "where were you when I laid the foundation of the world" but yet, no foundation of the world is established in the first 6 days of creation. It isn't documented, so when did that occure if not in the first 6 days? This kind of thing occures throught the scriptures, but it is really previlant in the Bood of Revelation.

I encourage you to write the things that confuse you in the bible, just referrence it somewhere, and then take a closure look at the reference points, you'll be very surprise what the bible itself will reveal to you. For me, the bible is the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and if you ask Him, He will reveal it to you. Take my word for it. I don't reference in the forum because discovering it for yourself is what revelation is all about. It's how Abraham did it and it worked for him, and God called Abraham His friend. It will work for you.

The mystery of the book of Revelation has eluded most for millennia. Which was intentional.

The key to the book of Revelation--and quite literally, all of scripture, is given in 10:6-7:

5 The angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land raised up his hand to heaven 6 and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and the things that are in it, the earth and the things that are in it, and the sea and the things that are in it, that there should be time no longer, 7 but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.​

However, if you missed it as so many have, the time of the mystery of God being finished was for a set time. This is that time spoken of. More importantly, [the key] is that interpreting everything on a timeline was the wrong approach...and not doing so, would cause the mystery of God only previously revealed to His servants the prophets, to be revealed and finished.

That's it!

As for the thread title question: Most of the book of Revelation is what is and has occurred in heaven (revealed).
 

FaithWillDo

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No
I am witnessing both.
The latter is here.
Peter declared it at Pentecost.
He said "THIS IS THAT..." Speaking from Joel.
Vivid and true.
Dear rebuilder 454,
When a believer receives the Early Rain of the Spirit, they are given a measure of faith and certain spiritual gifts.

In the first chapter of First Corinthians, Paul was addressing the Corinthian church who had only received the Early Rain of the Spirit and had not yet been converted. At this point, the Corinthians had only been "called" to be saints. They were not saints yet (not converted).

1Cor 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

1Cor 1:6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you
(with the Early Rain): 7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

For the Corinthian believers to whom Christ will come a second time, Christ will confirm their Elect status by giving them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. This will make them "blameless" with they are judged.

1Cor 1:7 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The story of the woman taken in adultery is a "type" which teaches when a believer is no longer condemned by the Law. In the story when Christ first writes in the earth, He is writing the Law of the Spirit in the woman's heart. This represents her receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit. At this point, the Pharisees who administer the Law, DO NOT drop their stones (a stone is a symbol for the law). The law still accuses the woman. Christ then writes in the earth a second time. This represents the Latter Rain of the Spirit. At this point, the Pharisees drop their stones and leave. The Law can no longer accuse the woman. She is now under the blood of Christ.

When a believer receives the Latter Rain of the Spirit, the most significant effect is the healing of the believer's spiritual blindness. It is at this point when the believer (who has fallen away and become "worse than the first", Mat 12:43-45) will "see" the Abomination of Desolation. The A of D previously occurred within them (the temple of God) shortly after they received the Early Rain when Satan came to them via the spirit of anti-Christ. These scriptures apply:

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand. 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.

After an Elect believer receives the Latter Rain of the Spirit, they will no longer fellowship with those who they used to call brothers/sisters in Christ because light does not fellowship with darkness. They will quickly leave the apostate church they attend and begin worshipping God in Spirit and in Truth.

Note: Shortly after Paul's death, all the churches became apostate because they were indwelt with the spirit of anti-Christ. No Elect believer (after receiving the Early Rain) can avoid passing through the apostate church. At the time Paul wrote his letters to the churches, the apostasy had not yet occurred. Those in the churches at that time, remained faithful. However, this is no longer true. The church now follows "another gospel" (2Cor 11:4) which mixes man's works with faith. When a believer accepts this false gospel, they are committing the one and only sin that leads to death (loss of salvation).

Consider this verse:

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

The "many" who are called to be saints are people to whom Christ gives the Early Rain of the Spirit (like the Corinthians). The "few" who are chosen are the ones to whom Christ "comes again" and gives the Latter Rain of the Spirit. Both Rains are required for salvation & conversion into a child of God. This is how Christ differentiates the "many" who are called to be saints from the "few" who have actually been chosen to be saints.

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

Joe
 
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Writer

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Because it is so figurative.

I'm a technical guy. I work with technical drawings, which has the intention of one, objective interpretation. Poetry has the intention of subjective interpretation, where even the same person can take it differently, depending on how they feel that way.

Few debate math. The more ambiguous, the more debate and difficulty in understanding.

I once read that Revelation was deliberately cryptic so the Romans could not decipher it, even if they got a copy.

Hope this helps.
Here is where the rubber meets the road: If we were to ask God His meaning and intention for the words that are written in His book, His answer would line up with His Righteousness and Divinity and not with a room full of diverse opinions or conjectures. His judgment will prove that. No matter how we plead our ingnorance, God will judge at a time when there will be no more excuses for getting our spiritual paradygm prepared to recieve the "TRUTH", regardless of the problems our flesh faces reading in figuarative languages. There are warnings, there are messages, there are signs and there are wonders in them for our sake and not to be passed off as, oh well...too figuarative for me.

The Holy Spirit tells us to ponder and meditate. That is so we, line up our understanding with the meaning intended when it was inspired. Yes, the bible does teach that all scripture can be used for discipline, and reproof and so on, however, not without wisdom and understanding as lead by the Holy Spirit.

Before I open my bible for study, I make this simple prayer. Lord, show me what you meant when you wrote these words, that I might receive them by revelation.

[13] And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. [14] If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. [15] If ye love me, keep my commandments. John 14
 

FaithWillDo

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Have you actually read your Bible were this earth and heavens over it are destroyed by fire, no my brother, only the wicked are left behind here at the Second Coming..
Dear Hobie,
The spirit word "earth" is representative of mankind's spiritual nature. The natural earth represents mankind's carnal spiritual nature which will be destroyed by judgment. In its place, the believer will receive a New Earth which is the spiritual nature of the Holy Spirit.

This conversion event happens when Christ comes to a believer a second time (the second coming of Christ) and pours out the Latter Rain of the Spirit, followed by the baptism of Fire (judgment). This spiritual process of conversion is also called the "First Resurrection" (Rev 20:5).

Joe
 

Wrangler

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Before I open my bible for study, I make this simple prayer. Lord, show me what you meant when you wrote these words, that I might receive them by revelation.
Interesting. Ever read Confessions by Augustine? He explores Hebrews 4:12, in how the words of Scripture can contain truth that not even the writer intended. There is another thread about how the BIble was not written for us. The audience was an ancient people, who spoke a different language, had different customs, sayings and sensibilities.

I don't make that prayer. I pray that God may open my mind to what I need to get out of it today. The word of God is alive = truth is constantly, not statically, revealed.
 

Writer

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Interesting. Ever read Confessions by Augustine? He explores Hebrews 4:12, in how the words of Scripture can contain truth that not even the writer intended. There is another thread about how the BIble was not written for us. The audience was an ancient people, who spoke a different language, had different customs, sayings and sensibilities.

I don't make that prayer. I pray that God may open my mind to what I need to get out of it today. The word of God is alive = truth is constantly, not statically, revealed.
Interesting, Augustine's explorations appears to be your blessed hope. Mine is Jesus and Him crucified.
 

Wrangler

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Interesting, Augustine's explorations appears to be your blessed hope. Mine is Jesus and Him crucified.
Come on man. We are all Christ followers on this forum. Just because I have a different take on revelation - as experienced by many, including Saint Augustine from the 4th century - does not mean I am not a Christ follower.

What is the Spirit that so divides us that if we differ in any way, we become the enemy of Christ? It is not of God!


1711021396501.png
 

Writer

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Come on man. We are all Christ followers on this forum. Just because I have a different take on revelation - as experienced by many, including Saint Augustine from the 4th century - does not mean I am not a Christ follower.

What is the Spirit that so divides us that if we differ in any way, we become the enemy of Christ? It is not of God!


View attachment 43532
Come on man. We are all Christ followers on this forum. Just because I have a different take on revelation - as experienced by many, including Saint Augustine from the 4th century - does not mean I am not a Christ follower.

What is the Spirit that so divides us that if we differ in any way, we become the enemy of Christ? It is not of God!


View attachment 43532
There is only one opinion that matters, God's, and He will line everyone in the Judgment against His own righteousness, Christian or not.

I like how you attempt to make yourself a victim and use someone elses words on a poster to justify your self righteous indignation. Something a narcisit would do.
 

Wick Stick

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Why is the book of Revelation so hard to read and understand?​

1) It was written in a language than you don't speak or read.
2) The authors belonged to a totally different culture than you do.
3) The book frequently uses symbolism and then tells the reader to interpret.
4) The book repeatedly makes allusions to another book that is hard to understand (Daniel).
5) You have 2000+ years of commentary to lead you astray.