Simple...when the heavenly Father draws them to Christ through the preaching of the gospel.
Why John 6:37 is grossly misunderstood and misapplied
- Thread starter Enoch111
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I'm saying nothing the church and bible hasn't said for millennia.
I believe in the true Trinity. You are a Tritheist.
I believe in a distinction between Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
Often, when the devil is rebuked, he puts up more of a fight because he wants to prove that the rebuking was to no avail. However, the Holy Ghost is surely going to convict you, @Dave L.
You have now slandered me now at least twenty times telling me and everyone else that I don't believe in the Trinity. I affirm that I do. but apparently you think you know what I believe better than I do. Obviously you are God and know the intricacies of my thought patterns.
You do not agree with the ecumenical creeds of Christendom. But with a bunch even the Pentecostals kicked out of their church as heretics in the 1940s.
Because this then makes your choice the saving factor in your conversion, not God's grace, which means you believe that your choice is what saves, which is work's righteousness.
So this means that you believe in work righteousness?
There is nothing in the creeds that contradicts my pov, how many times do I have to tell you that? You are simply trying to instigate an angry response out of me.
re #187
re #187
You've never read the creeds. And you always hedge on agreeing and would rather attack them when I post them.
It is still the grace of the Lord that saves me, even though I have a choice in the matter; for He died on the Cross and shed forth the Holy Ghost.
We receive the Holy Ghost through faith. Faith is not works, they are mutually exclusive.
However, God gives the Holy Ghost to those who obey Him (Acts 5:32).
The grace of God comes in in that He gives the Holy Ghost to those who ask Him for the Holy Ghost (Luke 11:9-13).
If you don't make the decision to ask, well, I'm sorry, you are out of luck.
I have read the creeds.
In my understanding there is exception to some of your statements, but the creeds generally do agree with my understanding.
And what I hedge on agreeing with is not the creeds themselves, but your understanding of them.
Here is the problem; God's grace is conditional upon your correct choices, which means that it cannot be the grace that saves you. If you have to choose the grace, then your choice is the root and therefore cause of your salvation, not the grace itself. And faith, by your definition has to be a work; is it not something that you must do? If it is, not matter what you may want to call it, it is a work. So even if you say we choose faith, and then by faith grace, then we are still the root of our conversion, which is works righteousness.
So you believe in works righteousness?
Possibly you've read a few excerpts since we first began this discussion. But you in no way reflect what they say in your Sabellianism.
Jesus stands at the door and knocks. If you open the door, He will come in and sup with you and you with Him.
The grace is in that He comes in and dwells within us when we open the door; so we are not saving ourselves; He is saving us by coming in to our hearts when we ask Him to.
This is not works but a response of faith.
Mat 7:7, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mat 7:8, For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
But of course you have to open the door, which means that it your opening of the door that saves you, not the grace you receive afterwards. This means that it was your work of opening the door that saved you...
So you believe in works righteousness?
You say that I believe in Sabellianism.
I believe in the Trinity with an emphasis on the Oneness of the Lord, based on scripture.
Rev 3:20, Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
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Also, I edited #195 (Why John 6:37 is grossly misunderstood and misapplied)
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Yes! And who allows us to hear? Who opens our ears to the truth? The Holy Spirit. The Spirit changes our wills and makes us willing to hear the knock, and makes us willing to sit and eat with Christ. The faith we receive is given to us by the spirit by grace, and thus opens our eyes to the knock of Christ.
If you believe in the trinity doctrine as stated in the early or later Christian creeds, say so.
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