Why John 6:37 is grossly misunderstood and misapplied

[farouk]

Ring a bell? Doesn’t this verse above remind you of the verse you write at the bottom of each of your posts? Yes! The account of the publican in Luke 18. He did not so much as lift his eyes up to look into heaven, but smote his breast saying God be merciful to me a sinner. He went home justified.

Can the publican who is spiritually dead and sold to sin, and in contrast with Romans 3:10-11 truly seek after God? But he did didn’t he? What had to have happened? John 6:44 happened!!! God was drawing (chosen, named, elected, predestined) him to Salvation, the same way He did and is doing with all of His children.

I repeat, NO ONE, in and of himself, CAN BE SAVED UNLESS THE FATHER DRAW HIM!!!

To God Be The Glory

This indeed seems to be plain sense of John 6.37.

We must learn humbly to depend on the grace of God, and not be puffed up with any sense of our supposed rights and merits and abilities.

 

[justbyfaith]

Ring a bell? Doesn’t this verse above remind you of the verse you write at the bottom of each of your posts? Yes! The account of the publican in Luke 18. He did not so much as lift his eyes up to look into heaven, but smote his breast saying God be merciful to me a sinner. He went home justified.

Can the publican who is spiritually dead and sold to sin, and in contrast with Romans 3:10-11 truly seek after God? But he did didn’t he? What had to have happened? John 6:44 happened!!! God was drawing (chosen, named, elected, predestined) him to Salvation, the same way He did and is doing with all of His children.

I repeat, NO ONE, in and of himself, CAN BE SAVED UNLESS THE FATHER DRAW HIM!!!

To God Be The Glory

The Father draws to Jesus those whom He gives to Jesus?

He gives to Jesus those who respond when He draws them.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say, so I am responding with what I believe to be sound doctrine.

 

[Dave L]

OK I got it. You would be a poor subject any way.

Besides, I already knew you couldn’t answer the question even if you tried, because it is spiritually discerned. Are you spiritual? Oops, a question again. I apologize.

How spiritual are insults?

 

[Dave L]

The problem with what you say here is your definition of Christiandom. You deny anybody that isn't Calvinist and does not adhere to the so-called ECF, who were Catholics. And you present ancient Catholic meetings as being the source of accurate doctrine, which it is not.

We've gained so much historical material when the Bible and the early church days claims such as yours have long been disproven.

I'm not a Calvinist. How much sense do you make claiming I think only they are saved. The truth is, I'm not sure Calvin is saved.

 

[Jun2u]

The Father draws to Jesus those whom He gives to Jesus?

You better believe it. Just read the first few words of Jesus in John 6:44: “No man can (have the power) come to me UNLESS the draw him.” What part of this phrase did you not understand? Is English your native tongue? For me English is my second language yet I understood John 6:44 very, very well.

He gives to Jesus those who respond when He draws them.

You’ve not really studied what salvation is, did you? Like everybody else in Christendom you’ve joined the band wagon also.

Salvation can be seen through the Raising of Lazarus. When Jesus cried aloud, “Lazarus come forth” could Lazarus who was dead, without life in him, and without ears to hear, heard the command? Of course not! But Lazarus did come forth, did he not?

What had to have happened? Well, Jesus had to go into the tomb to give Lazarus life, and give him ears to hear (those who have an ear let him hear). Just as He did to all those whom the Father gave to Him!!!

I'm not sure what you are trying to say, so I am responding with what I believe to be sound doctrine.

I really do wish your convictions and beliefs are according to sound doctrine. I hope and pray the above has helped in some way.

To God Be The Glory

 

[farouk]

@Jun2u Good to bow humbly to the wondrous grace and sovereignty of God in Scripture.

 

[Jun2u]

I'm not a Calvinist.

Of course you are not a Calvinist. You do not measure up to him in knowledge and about the things of God! I do not know about his other studies but I do know the acronym TULIP is a beautiful study / commentary according to God’s salvation program.

The truth is, I'm not sure Calvin is saved.

Of course only you would say so because you cannot see into his heart.

 

[farouk]

Of course you are not a Calvinist. You do not measure up to him in knowledge and about the things of God! I do not know about his other studies but I do know the acronym TULIP is a beautiful study / commentary according to God’s salvation program.



Of course only you would say so because you cannot see into his heart.

There's plenty of Biblic evidence for TULIP indeed! as there is for human responsibility (I prefer the term 'human responsibility' to 'free will').

 

[Jun2u]

There's plenty of Biblic evidence for TULIP indeed! as there is for human responsibility (I prefer the term 'human responsibility' to 'free will').

I don’t find both terms are suggested in Scripture. There might be apparent verses, Please elaborate.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Dave L]

Of course you are not a Calvinist. You do not measure up to him in knowledge and about the things of God! I do not know about his other studies but I do know the acronym TULIP is a beautiful study / commentary according to God’s salvation program.



Of course only you would say so because you cannot see into his heart.

So you are a Calvinist?

 

[farouk]

I don’t find both terms are suggested in Scripture. There might be apparent verses, Please elaborate.

To God Be The Glory

By way of example, John 6.37 has something of both human responsibility and God's sovereignty: they are in harmony.

 

[Jun2u]

By way of example, John 6.37 has something of both human responsibility and God's sovereignty: they are in harmony.

You are separating the thought process of part A from part B. Actually they mean the same otherwise, verse 44 will not mean a thing. Note how Jesus said that no man can come to Him unless the Father draw him.

Now in verse 37 Jesus says all that the Father gives to Him will come to Him, AND (without skipping a beat) says him that comes to me (by way of the Father’s drawing) I will no wise cast out (a better word would have been “reject”

I believe the above is the only way to understand verse 37.

Any other thought or explanation would bring in Romans 3:10-11 which would contradict verse 37.

To God Be The Glory

 

[farouk]

You are separating the thought process of part A from part B. Actually they mean the same otherwise, verse 44 will not mean a thing. Note how Jesus said that no man can come to Him unless the Father draw him.

Now in verse 37 Jesus says all that the Father gives to Him will come to Him, AND (without skipping a beat) says him that comes to me (by way of the Father’s drawing) I will no wise cast out (a better word would have been “reject”

I believe the above is the only way to understand verse 37.

Any other thought or explanation would bring in Romans 3:10-11 which would contradict verse 37.

To God Be The Glory

I would indeed acknowledge 'There is none that seeketh after God'. By human responsibility I do not mean so called free will.

 

[justbyfaith]

You are separating the thought process of part A from part B. Actually they mean the same otherwise, verse 44 will not mean a thing. Note how Jesus said that no man can come to Him unless the Father draw him.

Now in verse 37 Jesus says all that the Father gives to Him will come to Him, AND (without skipping a beat) says him that comes to me (by way of the Father’s drawing) I will no wise cast out (a better word would have been “reject”

I believe the above is the only way to understand verse 37.

Any other thought or explanation would bring in Romans 3:10-11 which would contradict verse 37.

To God Be The Glory

The Father drawing someone to Jesus does not necessarily mean that they will come to Him. The Father giving them to Jesus does, according to these scriptures (John 6:37 and John 6:44)

So then, if the Father draws me to Jesus and I respond in faith, then and only then does He give me to Him. See Romans 10:8-13.

 

[farouk]

The Father drawing someone to Jesus does not necessarily mean that they will come to Him. The Father giving them to Jesus does, according to these scriptures (John 6:37 and John 6:44)

So then, if the Father draws me to Jesus and I respond in faith, then and only then does He give me to Him. See Romans 10:8-13.

I would see it as happening the other way round; He draws and so we come.

 

[farouk]

So you are a Calvinist?

I think the doctrine is more important than the label.

 

[Jun2u]

How spiritual are insults?

John 3:10
10) Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master (teacher) of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11) Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness,
12) If I have told you of earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

Did you understand what Jesus is trying to convey to Nicodemus?

What about to the Pharisees? Was Jesus kind to them calling them vipers, Satan as their father...and so forth because they were the blind leaders leading the blind?

Don’t you fall in the same category, teaching heresies, and does not back up his teachings with Scripture?

You are comparable to BoL who believes he knows all about the things of God.

So sad, very sad indeed.

 

[Jun2u]

So you are a Calvinist?

Question again?

When will you answer my post or rather, why don't you answer my posts?
Now you got me asking questions.

To be honest, I would rather be a Calvinist than to follow your false teachings.

 

[Mjh29]

Did somebody say Calvin?!!



It has begun lol. I saw this and had to reply! I love Calvin and am a Calvinist, in case you all didn't already know lol...

 

[Mjh29]

Question again?

When will you answer my post or rather, why don't you answer my posts?
Now you got me asking questions.

To be honest, I would rather be a Calvinist than to follow your false teachings.

I must say that, as far as I have read, your beliefs do indeed align with the more traditional reformed beliefs... you have some very well stated responses. I especially appreciate that you seem to want people to digest the Scripture as a whole... I agree completely. Too often, we take passages out of the context of the message of Scripture as a whole.