Why many Christians will be deceived by Satan

[Aunty Jane]

@FaithWillDo let me ask you…….what is your “big picture “…?

I see so many bogged down with way too many details that simply confuse what is a rather simple scenario outlined in Scripture, but twisted beyond belief by those who have supposedly had their personal revelations straight from God (many thousands of them)…..they cannot see that the devil is having a lend of them, leading them down a broad path to death, with the illusion that it is leading them to life. Satan is a master deceiver, so it’s the “fruits” produced by those who claim to be Christ’s disciples that will identify them, not their unprovable claims that put them out on their own limb on a very big tree, separated only by the trunk, which is feeding them all the same basic lies. God sees the whole tree…..his own are not among those ‘branches’, they are separated out, and not part of that arrangement at all.

The true worshippers of Jehovah will hold no beliefs in common with any of them, yet their faith in God and great reliance on his word, give them the confidence that they are on the right path. They will demonstrate this by the way they live their lives in obedience to all of Christ’s teachings (not just the convenient things) so that they are “no part of the world” that satan rules…..(1 John 5:19)

They will also have great love among themselves, which is very evident in their daily lives. (John 13:34-35)
We are not to be part of satan’s corrupt political systems…not engrossed in it’s greedy commercial system (but using it to sustain our lives, rather than seeking to gain a grand lifestyle in a paradise of their own making right now) and their false religion is particularly disgusting to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus. These three aspects of Satan’s rulership have the majority of mankind totally enslaved whilst making them believe that they are not.

When the judgment comes, God’s people will not be among the “lawless” ones.
Whose laws are they breaking? If it were men’s laws they would be penalized by the ones who uphold and enforce those laws……but those who profess to be “Christians” are law-abiding citizens usually.
These law breakers are transgressing God’s laws……
What laws are they breaking that merits God’s rejection of them?

1) They worship a different god, having replaced the “one God” of Israel (Deut 6:4) with a god who appears to have multiple personalities and who can be in different places at the same time.....he converses with himself, prays to himself, and is his own servant and high priest. (Matt 26:42; Acts 4:27; Heb 3:1)
Who created this god? The RCC did. I cannot find him in the Bible at all except by inference, which is a twisting of scripture to accommodate a doctrine that is anti-Christ.

2) I also see deliberate disobedience to Christ’s teachings in matters involving politics and bloodshed. Christendom’s involvement in divisive politics, bloody wars and conflicts of their nations, rejects Jesus teachings to be “no part of the world” that satan rules. (John 17:16; 18:36; 1 John 5:19) It also ignores his teaching to “love our enemies and to pray for them”. (Matt 5:43-44) If our opposers are also professed “Christians”...do we bear arms against them? A genuine Christian will not. (1 John 4:20-21)
Paul also taught that our weapons are not carnal, but spiritual (Rom 12:17-21).....the only “sword” we bear is the Bible. Our armour is defensive, not offensive. (Eph 6:11-17)

3) We are not to fuse our Christian Faith with pagan beliefs and practices (2 Cor 6:14-18) because that will be polluting pure worship with false worship. Most of the celebrations that Christendom endorses are borrowed from paganism.....this fusion is an abomination to God, as is accepting immorality and unscriptural divorce.

The Bible is clear on all these things and yet they pass without so much as a whimper of protest because something in sinful man is satisfied with them. It is a delusion of course, but one that Jehovah will not interfere with because of free will. If we love the truth, we will not accommodate lies. God searches for those who love what he loves, and who hate what he hates.....that comes from the heart.

We are all making life and death choices every day by what we do, and what we accept as truth....if it’s not God’s truth...it’s not truth at all, but simply well disguised spiritual poison, fed to us by satan’s minions in a variety of ways, often using emotional hooks.

For myself, I see a rather simple picture, not needing to make every single thing into a “type”. There are “types and shadows” as Paul indicated, but they are usually well defined like the words of Jesus concerning his return in Matt 24:37-39. The earthly Temple and priesthood was a “type” for the heavenly arrangement. The Bible says this too. “Heavenly Jerusalem” is obviously not on earth, but was typified by the earthly arrangement. (Heb 12:22-25)

The story that begins in Genesis…..with the fall of both man and the original rebel, ends in Revelation with the restoration of all that God purposed in creating this earth and the living creatures upon it. All that transpired in between is how he accomplished this whilst retaining the very thing that got us into this mess in the first place…..the use (or abuse) of free will. It was originally a great gift, but abuse turned it into a awful curse. It wasn’t a mistake....we just had to learn to drive it by listening to our Grand Instructor. Had Adam done so, things would have turned out very differently. We could not be told that obedience to God was important....we had to be shown what happens when we ignore God’s laws.

In understanding God’s first purpose for this earth, and why he gave human beings free will (something that had the potential to be abused with dire consequences) we have to know what God was aiming to accomplish in the beginning.....so, knowing his original purpose is vital. You seem to be looking through a peep hole instead of an open door. You are seeing through such a narrow lens, that the focus is on useless “types” that lead you off into ideas that are read into scripture instead of seeing what is written as it fits the big picture.

If we have jigsaw puzzle with a thousand pieces, how do we know where to fit those pieces if we have no picture on the box? And do you have too many pieces that don’t fit into the picture at all?
Which is why I have to ask....what then is your big picture? Why are we here? What went wrong, and how does God fix it, whilst still keeping to his original purpose?

 

[Fred J]

Well, we have the strong delusion being spread now with this idea of a secret rapture which proposes that the people of God will be secretly taken to heaven while the unconverted remain on the earth to receive what is tantamount to a second chance. The second chance doctrine is a doctrine of false hope which does not encourage people to change their lives and make right with God.

Correction, the strong delusion is meant for unbelievers during the reign of anti-Christ to be deceived by him. They did not choose the Light of the Gospel while was with them, but loved darkness instead till the day of son of perdition.

Apart from unbelievers, during rapture believers who are ready will be taken, and ones not ready will be left behind. In ministry, two will be laboring in the same field, one will be taken and the other left behind. Whilst, there will be two laboring in the same house, one will be taken and the other left behind.

Rapture of saints, even ones overcome undergoing Tribulation in the hand of anti-Christ and the world, will take place after three and a half years. On the other hand, it will not exactly happen as predicted because the Lord will be a little late. As according to the parables of the ten virgins, and also, the Lord appears like a thief in the night when least expected. But actually the anti-Christ will reign over the world for seven years, himself together going through the Great Tribulation.

Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; and let him return unto the Lord, and He will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for He will abundantly pardon. Isaiah 55:7

But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statues, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live. 'Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?' says the Lord, 'and not that he should turn from his ways and live?' Ezekial 18:21-23 NKJV

Only the New Testament made way for the complete redemption of the Jews and Gentiles, sons and daughters of Adam and Eve.

Again there is an "if" in these verses. Salvation is conditional to obedience. We will be held accountable for our deeds.

Even the Jews after receiving Salvation from the bondage in egypt, the Law of Moses and the Prophets were also conditional. By the same GOD who held them accountable for their deeds over and over again. And there's no changes of HIM in the New Testament, but ones are held accountable of their deeds only once and for all on judgement day.

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father, with his angels, and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Matthew 16:27

Good works according to 2 Timothy 3:16&17

And then we have the many who say sin cannot be overcome..

Jesus said, "Your sins are forgiven, sin no more."

'GOD hates sin.'

Believers in their lifetime in faith and practice, confess their sins and gradually stop sinning once and for all. GOD's grace and truth through Lord Jesus Christ in our lifetime have given us opportunity to pick up and better ourselves.

That's why we witness true saints who lay down their lives, from sinning and for the Gospel sake, leave this earth sooner. Far from compromisers who save their lives, continue sinning and for the Gospel sake. Apparently they remain here until they do or never, and end of the day they too leave the earth later.

Whereas, on judgement day there will be the separation of the sheep and goats or wheats and weeds

Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 3:21
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

These are true saints who lay down their lives for the kingdom of GOD, even their garment is stained in blood for the Gospel sake.

This is not referring to lukewarm church like us Hobie..............

 

[Hobie]

@FaithWillDo let me ask you…….what is your “big picture “…?

I see so many bogged down with way too many details that simply confuse what is a rather simple scenario outlined in Scripture, but twisted beyond belief by those who have supposedly had their personal revelations straight from God (many thousands of them)…..they cannot see that the devil is having a lend of them, leading them down a broad path to death, with the illusion that it is leading them to life. Satan is a master deceiver, so it’s the “fruits” produced by those who claim to be Christ’s disciples that will identify them, not their unprovable claims that put them out on their own limb on a very big tree, separated only by the trunk, which is feeding them all the same basic lies. God sees the whole tree…..his own are not among those ‘branches’, they are separated out, and not part of that arrangement at all.

The true worshippers of Jehovah will hold no beliefs in common with any of them, yet their faith in God and great reliance on his word, give them the confidence that they are on the right path. They will demonstrate this by the way they live their lives in obedience to all of Christ’s teachings (not just the convenient things) so that they are “no part of the world” that satan rules…..(1 John 5:19)

They will also have great love among themselves, which is very evident in their daily lives. (John 13:34-35)
We are not to be part of satan’s corrupt political systems…not engrossed in it’s greedy commercial system (but using it to sustain our lives, rather than seeking to gain a grand lifestyle in a paradise of their own making right now) and their false religion is particularly disgusting to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus. These three aspects of Satan’s rulership have the majority of mankind totally enslaved whilst making them believe that they are not.

When the judgment comes, God’s people will not be among the “lawless” ones.
Whose laws are they breaking? If it were men’s laws they would be penalized by the ones who uphold and enforce those laws……but those who profess to be “Christians” are law-abiding citizens usually.
These law breakers are transgressing God’s laws……
What laws are they breaking that merits God’s rejection of them?

1) They worship a different god, having replaced the “one God” of Israel (Deut 6:4) with a god who appears to have multiple personalities and who can be in different places at the same time.....he converses with himself, prays to himself, and is his own servant and high priest. (Matt 26:42; Acts 4:27; Heb 3:1)
Who created this god? The RCC did. I cannot find him in the Bible at all except by inference, which is a twisting of scripture to accommodate a doctrine that is anti-Christ.

2) I also see deliberate disobedience to Christ’s teachings in matters involving politics and bloodshed. Christendom’s involvement in divisive politics, bloody wars and conflicts of their nations, rejects Jesus teachings to be “no part of the world” that satan rules. (John 17:16; 18:36; 1 John 5:19) It also ignores his teaching to “love our enemies and to pray for them”. (Matt 5:43-44) If our opposers are also professed “Christians”...do we bear arms against them? A genuine Christian will not. (1 John 4:20-21)
Paul also taught that our weapons are not carnal, but spiritual (Rom 12:17-21).....the only “sword” we bear is the Bible. Our armour is defensive, not offensive. (Eph 6:11-17)

3) We are not to fuse our Christian Faith with pagan beliefs and practices (2 Cor 6:14-18) because that will be polluting pure worship with false worship. Most of the celebrations that Christendom endorses are borrowed from paganism.....this fusion is an abomination to God, as is accepting immorality and unscriptural divorce.

The Bible is clear on all these things and yet they pass without so much as a whimper of protest because something in sinful man is satisfied with them. It is a delusion of course, but one that Jehovah will not interfere with because of free will. If we love the truth, we will not accommodate lies. God searches for those who love what he loves, and who hate what he hates.....that comes from the heart.

We are all making life and death choices every day by what we do, and what we accept as truth....if it’s not God’s truth...it’s not truth at all, but simply well disguised spiritual poison, fed to us by satan’s minions in a variety of ways, often using emotional hooks.

For myself, I see a rather simple picture, not needing to make every single thing into a “type”. There are “types and shadows” as Paul indicated, but they are usually well defined like the words of Jesus concerning his return in Matt 24:37-39. The earthly Temple and priesthood was a “type” for the heavenly arrangement. The Bible says this too. “Heavenly Jerusalem” is obviously not on earth, but was typified by the earthly arrangement. (Heb 12:22-25)

The story that begins in Genesis…..with the fall of both man and the original rebel, ends in Revelation with the restoration of all that God purposed in creating this earth and the living creatures upon it. All that transpired in between is how he accomplished this whilst retaining the very thing that got us into this mess in the first place…..the use (or abuse) of free will. It was originally a great gift, but abuse turned it into a awful curse. It wasn’t a mistake....we just had to learn to drive it by listening to our Grand Instructor. Had Adam done so, things would have turned out very differently. We could not be told that obedience to God was important....we had to be shown what happens when we ignore God’s laws.

In understanding God’s first purpose for this earth, and why he gave human beings free will (something that had the potential to be abused with dire consequences) we have to know what God was aiming to accomplish in the beginning.....so, knowing his original purpose is vital. You seem to be looking through a peep hole instead of an open door. You are seeing through such a narrow lens, that the focus is on useless “types” that lead you off into ideas that are read into scripture instead of seeing what is written as it fits the big picture.

If we have jigsaw puzzle with a thousand pieces, how do we know where to fit those pieces if we have no picture on the box? And do you have too many pieces that don’t fit into the picture at all?
Which is why I have to ask....what then is your big picture? Why are we here? What went wrong, and how does God fix it, whilst still keeping to his original purpose?

Yes, Satan desires the praise and worship that only belongs to God. We see in Isaiah what Satan truly wants...

Isaiah 14:12-14

King James Version (KJV)

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Satan wants take away worship from God in any way or form that he can, and he sets about to do it with lies and deception as we see in the false doctrines of the "Secret Rapture. the Immortality of the Soul, the idea of Once Saved Always Save, the deception of Preterism and Futurism' to name just a few of the end time deception Satan has spread to confuse the faithful elect..

So how can Christians sift through all the things that we are seeing as Christ says are about to happen, false christs and false signs, and wonders so deceptive that even the elect were in danger of being deceived. Well we must start with scripture which unveils His truth. Since what comes from God will agree with scripture in any doctrinal material they expound. It will allow the Holy Spirit to be poured out on them, not the false gifts we see today, but true gifts which lead people to a closer walk with God and to love Him more and share His love with others.

It is easy to claim false gifts if one is not firmly grounded in the truth, but deceived by the lies Satan has spread and been picked up by many Christians so they cannot see or hear what Christ clearly lays out about the last days and His Second Coming..

 

[Hobie]

Correction, the strong delusion is meant for unbelievers during the reign of anti-Christ to be deceived by him. They did not choose the Light of the Gospel while was with them, but loved darkness instead till the day of son of perdition.

Apart from unbelievers, during rapture believers who are ready will be taken, and ones not ready will be left behind. In ministry, two will be laboring in the same field, one will be taken and the other left behind. Whilst, there will be two laboring in the same house, one will be taken and the other left behind.

Rapture of saints, even ones overcome undergoing Tribulation in the hand of anti-Christ and the world, will take place after three and a half years. On the other hand, it will not exactly happen as predicted because the Lord will be a little late. As according to the parables of the ten virgins, and also, the Lord appears like a thief in the night when least expected. But actually the anti-Christ will reign over the world for seven years, himself together going through the Great Tribulation.

Only the New Testament made way for the complete redemption of the Jews and Gentiles, sons and daughters of Adam and Eve.

Even the Jews after receiving Salvation from the bondage in egypt, the Law of Moses and the Prophets were also conditional. By the same GOD who held them accountable for their deeds over and over again. And there's no changes of HIM in the New Testament, but ones are held accountable of their deeds only once and for all on judgement day.

Good works according to 2 Timothy 3:16&17

Jesus said, "Your sins are forgiven, sin no more."

'GOD hates sin.'

Believers in their lifetime in faith and practice, confess their sins and gradually stop sinning once and for all. GOD's grace and truth through Lord Jesus Christ in our lifetime have given us opportunity to pick up and better ourselves.

That's why we witness true saints who lay down their lives, from sinning and for the Gospel sake, leave this earth sooner. Far from compromisers who save their lives, continue sinning and for the Gospel sake. Apparently they remain here until they do or never, and end of the day they too leave the earth later.

Whereas, on judgement day there will be the separation of the sheep and goats or wheats and weeds

These are true saints who lay down their lives for the kingdom of GOD, even their garment is stained in blood for the Gospel sake.

This is not referring to lukewarm church like us Hobie..............

When probation is closed, the light is withdrawn from the unjust as they shall have decided their fate and God leaves them in the darkness they have chosen, many Christians who continue in sin will be left in this bondage to iniquity and there is no turning back at this point. Christ makes it clear..

Revelation 22:11
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

 

[FaithWillDo]

@FaithWillDo let me ask you…….what is your “big picture “…?

Dear AuntyJane,
You asked:
Which is why I have to ask....what then is your big picture? Why are we here? What went wrong, and how does God fix it, whilst still keeping to his original purpose?

I'm sure you want a short answer to those questions but a short answer really isn't possible when it must be supported by scripture. I never expect anyone to believe my statements but they should believe scripture - that is why I use a large amount of scripture in my posts.

This will be long and will require more than one post.

God's plan for this creation is perfect and is without mistake or regret. The issue for mankind is that mankind does not and cannot know God, nor does God reveal His plan to us. It is only after a person has been converted into a child of God will they be able to know God and understand His plan. Until that time, mankind’s carnal nature will keep God “veiled”.

Ecc 3:11 He has made everything fitting in its season; However, He has put obscurity (the world) in their heart so that the man may NOT find out His work, that which God does, that which God does from the beginning to the end.

Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Let me explain further by presenting the “big picture” you asked for.

Mankind's spiritual condition we have from birth is flawed. It was NOT a mistake by God. We were made that way on purpose so that our flesh controls us. That is why we are carnally minded and why Christ, while in a physical body, was not.

Christ was spiritually perfect and this empowered Him to overcome this carnal world and never sin. But with mankind, we cannot overcome this world and we frequently sin as a result of our spiritual flaw.

It is not man's fault that we were created imperfect. God is responsible for our marred spiritual condition which causes us to sin.

Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, ...

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

So why did God make us spiritually marred?

Since this creation is for God's purpose of producing His offspring and because God wants His children to be like Him, mankind must learn about good and evil.

At this time, mankind is learning about evil. Later, after we are “converted”, we will learn about the goodness of God.

But for now, mankind must learn about evil; and not just being on the receiving end of evil but also being on the giving end of evil as well. God even created Satan to be our tempter and deceiver so that we would have a fuller experience of evil.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness…

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever:

Isa 45:5-7 I am the LORD, ... I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Ecc 1:13 An experience of evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

Because of our spiritually marred condition we have at birth, we all grow to become sinful and evil creatures.

Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Mankind's carnal nature is hatred towards God and it veils us from knowing Him, so much so, that we do not even have a desire to seek His ways. The ways of Satan is what our carnal nature prefers.

To make matters worse for mankind, Satan was created to feed upon our carnality; the dust of the ground (Gen 3:14). For that reason, Satan works to destroy and deceive mankind through our carnal nature.

Let’s take a look at how this truth applies to experiences of Adam and Eve:

After Adam and Eve were created spiritually marred, they quickly became carnally minded. Christ even put Satan in the Garden of Eden to tempt & deceive Eve so that she would sin. Because Eve was carnal, she didn’t stand a chance against Satan’s deceptions.

Eve even displayed the three carnal causes of sin BEFORE she sinned (1John 2:16).

Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food (lust of the flesh), and that it was pleasant to the eyes (lust of the eyes), and a tree to be desired to make one wise (pride of life), she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Here is the formula for mankind’s spiritual makeup:

CARNAL MIND + CARNAL NATURE = ONE FLESH

This formula can be restated using these terms:

MAN + WOMAN = ONE FLESH

ADAM + EVE = ONE FLESH

Eve represents mankind’s carnal nature and that is why Satan went to her instead of Adam.

After Eve sinned, she fed the forbidden fruit to Adam and He sinned as well. Since Adam and Eve followed the ways of Satan instead of Christ, they spiritually committed adultery with Satan. This adultery caused the marriage relationship they had with Christ to end and they were cast out of the Garden of Eden.

Christ, of course, knew Adam and Eve were carnally minded and would sin because He made them that way. And for this same reason, all of Adam & Eve's offspring sin as well.

Mankind's sin was planned and caused by God so that we would all experience evil.

With God, evil is a tool that He uses for His good and righteous purposes. In this case, His purpose is to create His offspring who have a knowledge of good and evil.

But since mankind's sin spiritually separates us from God and because God wants children, He needed to create a pathway back to Himself for mankind. To accomplish that task, God sent Jesus Christ to reconcile mankind back to God:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

However, in our spiritually marred and carnally minded condition, NO PERSON can be saved. We have all sinned and the penalty of sin is death (not eternal hell). For this reason, all mankind must die. This is an absolute truth that cannot be broken. The only solution is for mankind to be “born again” (John 3:3) before the death that we all must pay.

Christ's work on the cross gave Christ the legal authority to raise mankind from the grave and to give mankind a new life. By His sacrifice, Christ earned the keys to death and hell (Rev 1:18) and became mankind's near kinsman redeemer. Now all mankind owes their debt of death to Christ.

Christ will collect mankind's debt by destroying mankind's spiritually marred vessel:

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

In mankind’s marred created condition, no person has the ability to “choose” Christ and accept Him as “Lord. The only way mankind can accept Christ is for Christ to individually come to us FIRST and change us from within.

Christ begins His work of conversion for a person when He comes to them and gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. This is when a person becomes a believer and enters the church.

Jam 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER rain. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

CONTINUED ON THE NEXT POST...

 

[FaithWillDo]

@FaithWillDo let me ask you…….what is your “big picture “…?

CONTINUED FROM THE PREVIOUS POST...

After Christ gives His gift of the Early Rain of the Spirit to a person, they will no longer be able to reject Him. Even with just a measure of the Spirit, an unbeliever will become a “called out” believer and will confess that Jesus is their Lord.

1 Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Paul “typed” the receiving of the Early Rain of the Spirit as he traveled the Damascus Road (Acts 9:3-9). From Christ’s visitation, Paul readily accepted Jesus and called Him “Lord”.

However, the Early Rain of the Spirit is only given in measure and cannot convert a person.

Deu 32:2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain (Early Rain) upon the tender herb, and as the showers (Latter Rain) upon the grass:

Job 37:6 For he saith to the snow, Be thou on the earth; likewise to the small rain (Early Rain), and to the great rain (Latter Rain) of his strength.

Because of this partial measure of the Spirit, the new believer will remain spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) and controlled by their carnal nature. As a result, Satan will be able to come to them and deceive them.

Everyone who is “called out from the world” will follow this portion of the Pathway to Salvation and will be deceived by Satan.

Matt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

This portion of the pathway when we are under Satan’s deceptions is called mankind's Day of Evil:

Prov 16:4 The LORD will make all to give an answer: yea, even for the evil of the Day of Evil.

The Day of Evil (when Satan reigns) is in contrast to the Day of the Lord (when Christ reigns).

In the Day of Evil, Satan wins the spiritual war with the new child of God within the believer. This is when the believer commits the sin that leads to death and they lose their salvation.

In the Day of the Lord, Christ removes and destroys Satan (spirit of anti-Christ) within the believer. This is when the believer is converted and saved.

Note: After a believer is converted, they can never fall away and lose their salvation again.

When Satan comes to a new believer, he will masquerade as an angel of light (Christ).

2Cor 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore, it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

The new believer will fall for Satan’s deception because they remain spiritually blind after having only received the Early Rain of the Spirit. They don't yet have the ability to know the true Christ. Satan will then feed the believer his carnally pleasing lies (leavened bread) which they will readily accept as the truth of Christ.

Matt 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

After a believer’s carnal nature (represented by the symbol “woman”) has come under the control of Satan, the believer’s “woman” will take leaven from Satan and hide it in three measures of meal (truth of Christ). And since the new believer will eat from this leavened loaf of bread, they will be deceived by Satan without even being aware of it.

Christ explained this process again this way:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents Satan’s false truth. Since a called out believer remains spiritually blind after receiving the Early Rain, they cannot replace their false beliefs of this world with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves the person but comes back with SEVEN (represents the spirit of anti-Christ) more since their house remains void of the truth. Now, instead of just ONE unclean spirit within them, they now have EIGHT. The number EIGHT is a spiritual symbol and represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is "worse than the first".

Paul calls this believer with a worsened spiritual condition the Man of Sin (2Thes 2:1-4). John, in Revelation chapters 13, refers to him as the Seven Headed Ten Horned Beast. This Beast is controlled by the spirit of anti-Christ (the second Beast/the False Prophet).

When Christ comes to an unbeliever with the Early Rain of the Spirit, Christ strikes a blow to the head of the believer with His “sword” (God’s Word). This blow by the sword gives the believer a deadly wound. However, due to Satan’s deceptions via the spirit of anti-Christ, the believer’s head wound is healed and they devolve into a Man of Sin.

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

This verse below also applies:

Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Christ’s spiritual point He is making in Matt 26:52 is that all Elect believers who take up the Sword, must perish (death of the carnal nature) by the Sword. This death by the sword is a necessary part of the conversion process.

I’ll explain this concept further:

After an Elect believer receives the first blow to their head by the sword of Christ, their carnality (Old Man) starts slowly dying. This slow process of judgment within the believer causes a spiritual war to develop between the Early Rain of the Spirit and the believer’s carnality.

During this spiritual war, Satan will come to the aid of the believer’s carnality via the spirit of anti-Christ. This spirit will strengthen the “Old Man” (carnality of the believer) because the spirit of anti-Christ will masquerade as Christ and will fully deceive the believer. While under Satan’s influence, the believer will follow the ways of Satan instead of the ways of Christ. In other words, the believer will commit adultery with Satan (like Adam and Eve did) and will fall from grace (be cast out of the Garden of Eden).

With the spirit of anti-Christ now indwelling the believer, the believer will become worse than the first; a Man of Sin.

The Man of Sin is presented in Revelation chapter 13 as the Seven Headed Beast. And since the believer’s deadly head wound which came from the sword of Christ is now healed, the world will be amazed by the strength of the beast and his ability to make war. They will then ask “who is able to make war with him?”

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Since the Old Man (now a Man of Sin) continues to live, the spiritual death that the believer needed to pay to satisfy their sin debt remains unpaid and they remain under the Law of Sin and Death.

To make Satan’s ability to deceive mankind even easier, mankind's carnal nature has a built-in preference for "works" (Satan’s crooked way) over faith (Christ’s straight way):

CONTINUED ON THE NEXT POST...

 

[FaithWillDo]

@FaithWillDo let me ask you…….what is your “big picture “…?

CONTINUED FROM THE PREVIOUS POST...

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, the old is better.

The Old Wine represents the blood of the animal sacrifices of the Old Covenant of Law. The Old Covenant is man's attempt to be acceptable to Christ by their own “works”. With this approach, the remission of sins is not possible.

Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

The New Wine represents the blood of Christ which Christ shed for the New Covenant of Grace through Faith.

Mat 26:27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; 28 For this is my blood of the New Covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. 29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

The New Covenant of Grace through Faith is the only acceptable approach to Christ and it is based solely on the works of Christ “lest any man should boast” (Eph 2:9).

Under the New Covenant, Christ will change mankind from “within” (spiritually). However, this approach to Christ is rejected by mankind’s carnal nature because it inherently believes that mankind has at least some ability to make themselves acceptable to God. Mankind’s inherent belief in “self-worth” is responsible for the many religions of the world and is one of the reasons why a called out believer will always mix their own “works” with faith.

When a believer commits this sin of mixing “works” with faith, they are trying to serve two masters:

Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

At this point, the believer has truly fallen away and turned to religion for their salvation. They have experienced the Abomination of Desolation (Mat 24:15). This is the one and only sin that leads to a believer’s spiritual death (1John 5:16). And from this death, the believer cannot be renewed by repentance:

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

The Doctrine of Free Will is the most common belief that causes a believer to fall away. They use this “works” based belief system to differentiate themselves from why unbelievers are worthy of hell and why they are not. They falsely believe that they made the right choice from their supposed "free will" because they were smarter, wiser or just not as evil as those who rejected Christ. But in truth, they are not. Their decision to accept Jesus as Lord solely came from the work Christ did within them beforehand. Christ did this work when He gave them the Early Rain of the Spirit.

Because a fallen away believer cannot be renewed by repentance, they will remain in this lost, spiritually worsened condition until Christ comes to them a second time. In this age, Christ is only coming a second time to His Elect - the First-Fruits of the harvest of mankind. They have been chosen from the foundation of the world and are the only ones who are going to be saved at this time.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.

However, the rest of mankind will not be forgotten by Christ. Their salvation will come in the final age (Lake of Fire age). Since mankind's salvation is 100% the work of Christ, no man has the ability to choose the timing of their own salvation. Only the Elect have been chosen by God to be saved in this age. Everyone else must wait for the final age for their day of salvation.

However, in the final age, there is a group order for salvation that has been established by God: the remaining Gentiles will be saved first, then after their "fullness" has come into the Kingdom of Heaven, the remaining bulk of physical Israel will finally be saved.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Mat 19:30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

If a person has been chosen from the foundation of the world, Christ will not let them physically die in their sins. He will come to them a second time and give them the Latter Rain of the Spirit.

Unlike the Early Rain, the Latter Rain will be plentiful and will “confirm thine inheritance”:

Psa 68:9 Thou, O God, didst send a plentiful rain (Latter Rain), whereby thou didst confirm thine inheritance, when it was weary.

The Latter Rain is also called the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. It is the same baptism which the Apostles received on the Day of Pentecost and it is the same baptism which Paul received after being in Damascus for three days. With this baptism, the new child of God is born.

The Latter Rain of the Spirit occurs at the Second Coming of Christ when Christ comes to one of His Elect during this present age.

Christ’s second coming is a reoccurring spiritual event. It is not the falsely claimed one-time event which happens at the end of this physical age.

These verses apply:

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne...

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

After Christ comes to an Elect believer a second time and gives them the Latter Rain of the Spirit, the Day of the Lord will immediately follow with judgment upon the Man of Sin/Old Man. After their judgment is complete, the Elect believer will be fully converted.

What I have presented above is an abbreviated summary of how Christ saves one of His Elect in this age. They are the First-Fruits of His harvest of mankind.

And as I said earlier, Christ will not forget the rest of mankind and will NOT leave them to rot in the field. In the final age, at the end of the harvest season (Feast of Tabernacles), Christ will finish His work within them and bring in the full harvest of mankind. Then it will be testified to be true that ALL who died “in Adam” is the same ALL who will be made alive “in Christ”.

1 Cor 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first-fruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as IN ADAM ALL DIE, EVEN SO IN CHRIST SHALL ALL BE MADE ALIVE.

1 Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

God does not fail and He never makes mistakes. What mankind is experiencing now is how God produces His children. This is why mankind was created. And due to the successful work of Christ, no one will be lost. This truth is the meaning of life that seems to elude most people.

One final point:

Mankind is NOT restored to the Father because it is mankind’s "will" to be restored to Him. Mankind is restored to the Father because it is God's "will" for it to happen.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Mankind truly has a loving and merciful creator who will do all that is necessary to save each and every one of us. In the end, God will have many new children!

Joe

 

[Aunty Jane]

You asked:
Which is why I have to ask....what then is your big picture? Why are we here? What went wrong, and how does God fix it, whilst still keeping to his original purpose?

I'm sure you want a short answer to those questions but a short answer really isn't possible when it must be supported by scripture. I never expect anyone to believe my statements but they should believe scripture - that is why I use a large amount of scripture in my posts.

Thank you for taking the time to address this subject so thoroughly…but I have to say that I disagree with pretty much all of what you have stated…..not that your scriptural references were in error, only your interpretation of them to fit the scenario you seem to have created in your own mind.

For starters, you have misunderstood why God created the material universe and why he chose one tiny planet, in one insignificant galaxy among billions, to produce sentient material life. Only in fairly recent centuries has man’s knowledge increased to the point where we can appreciate the vast array of living things seen in nature….from the microscopic life that is not visible to the human eye, to the gargantuan creatures that existed before humans arrived. Then to have space telescopes that take us beyond our solar system and galaxy, to reveal an infinite realm filled with billions of other galaxies, which probably contain more billions of other solar systems.….the scope of which is hard for the human brain to process.

We first have to appreciate why God put us humans here on this carefully prepared planet in the first place….along with myriads of other creatures whom he designed to share “life” with us. Some of these oxygen breathing creatures are called “souls” like we are, and yet everlasting life was granted only to humans….we are the only creatures designed to reflect our Creator in the qualities he gave us. Why did he make humans alone “in his image and likeness”? What was his purpose for us here?

He already had a vast family in heaven….millions of spirit “sons” who serve him in that realm, and have done so for eons of time, long before material creation existed. These “sons of God“ are said to have been observing God’s creative works, and thereafter applauding the finished product. (Job 38:4-7)

What then caused this one spirit son to rebel, and only after the creation of humans?
Why did God allow it, and what was the purpose of the two trees in the garden…?
One was life giving, and the other, death dealing….?

Unless we have solid answers to those questions, we will never find the truth about why life has been so difficult for us, when it was never God’s intention to see his children suffer. Look what humans were given in the beginning….everything was perfect. Their every need was catered to in abundance.

God does not create anything imperfect…..otherwise he could not have stated that at the end of each creative period, that all that he had accomplished in that “day”, was “good”….and with the creation of man, he pronounced his work as “very good”….What does “very good” means to a perfect Creator?

You see, if you begin with a wrong premise, then everything you build on it will also be flawed.
God never intended to take any humans to heaven because he had no need to…..we were supposed to live here on earth in mortal flesh forever…..Jehovah provided the means to do so, but it was conditional….(as all of God’s laws were)….”IF” Adam and his wife obeyed his commands, they would be granted access to “the tree of life”, and live forever…..but if they disobeyed, then access would be denied and death would follow. (Gen 3:22-24)

There is no “conversion” of the elect at the last moment….conversion has been taking place all through the history of Christianity. All who were taken into the “new covenant” were “converted”, which included the apostles as the very first ones to be offered that privilege, and who were joined by other “joint heirs” with Jesus by receiving an anointing with God’s spirit as a token of their choosing. They took that token to the grave with them until the time of Christ’s “presence“, when he returned to take his “saints” home to the place he had prepared for them.

We are in “the Lord’s day” right now as John’s Revelation describes the events that are taking place in these “last days” (2 Tim 3:1-5) The King is “separating the sheep from the goats” and will soon manifest himself as God’s appointed judge to mete out reward and punishment on the human race, according to the choices that they have made of their own free will.

All genuine Christians must agree with each other because there is only one truth, (1 Cor 1:10) and this entire global brotherhood possess this rare quality because God’s spirit is upon them, and they are directed by the one appointed to lead them….the Christ. He is the one sending them out to preach “the good news of the Kingdom in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations”. (Matt 24:14)

Matt 7:21-23 is proof that calling Jesus your “Lord” does not make you a “Christian”….we have to have his approval as to what we believe and practice, or we will suffer his stinging rejection.

Compared with the world’s population, those on “the road to life” are “few” (Mat 7:13-14) and they are hated and persecuted for the same reasons as Christ and his disciples were persecuted (John 15:18-21) ….because they teach an unpopular truth and expose the errors that most people accept as gospel truth. History is repeating right under the noses of those who are “blinded” by the devil. (2 Cor 4:3-4)

The time for our accounting is near…..but who will be left standing? Not label wearers….only genuine truth seekers will have bothered to dig for the hidden treasures in God’s word in company with the only brotherhood who teach the unpopular truth….the “few” whom Christ will accept as his “sheep”.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Thank you for taking the time to address this subject so thoroughly…but I have to say that I disagree with pretty much all of what you have stated…..not that your scriptural references were in error, only your interpretation of them to fit the scenario you seem to have created in your own mind.

The time for our accounting is near…..but who will be left standing? Not label wearers….only genuine truth seekers will have bothered to dig for the hidden treasures in God’s word in company with the only brotherhood who teach the unpopular truth….the “few” whom Christ will accept as his “sheep”.

Dear AuntyJane,
Your understanding of God makes Him out to be a weak and merciless father who can only hope that people will turn to Him. Your belief in mankind's supposed free will ability is evidently too powerful for Christ to overcome in most people. However, there are ZERO scriptures that state mankind as any free will ability. In fact, God's Word says that no man can even call Jesus "Lord" unless they have been given the Holy Spirit by Christ - and Christ gives this gift by His own choosing without the individual's asking or permission. Mankind is truly at the mercy of Christ to save them. And according to His Word, Christ will do exactly that. When He decides to save a person, He will come to them and do all the spiritual work within them that will change their heart and mind. If Christ didn't do this work, no man would be saved.

By accepting the false Doctrine of Free Will and believing that it is man's responsibility to approach Christ and accept Him as "Lord" is contradicted by scripture. These beliefs come from the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ and is the sin that leads to death. When a believer mixes their own works with faith, they are trying to serve two masters; Christ and Satan. When they do this mixing, their house will fall.

God's Word teaches us to rely on Christ for all our needs, including our salvation. He will do all the work and will even give us our faith, repentance and desire to follow Him. Scripture calls this approach the "straight" way.

Satan teaches mankind to believe that they are like God who alone has a free will ability. Satan teaches that salvation is the responsibility of the person and not Christ. Satan teaches that salvation is only an “offer” that mankind must accept or reject. Absolutely not! Salvation is a free gift. Scripture calls your approach to Christ the crooked way. For that reason, scripture says that Satan is the crooked serpent.

In this age, Christ is only doing His spiritual work within those individuals that His Father chose for an early salvation. They are blessed by God and had no say in the matter. They are the Elect.

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

I am always bewildered by believers who can read verses like the ones above and still believe in the crooked ways of Satan. But the power of God's "strong delusion" cannot be underestimated. No man can break free of that delusion until Christ gives them the Latter Rain of the Spirit so that their spiritual blindness is healed. Unless Christ does this work within a person, they are destined to be saved in the final age while they are experiencing God's wrath in the Lake of Fire. But because Christ is not like Satan or mankind, when he judges a person, He will not omit justice, mercy and faith.

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Before any of the "lost" in the Lake of Fire perish, Christ will have mercy upon them and freely give them the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. With the Spirit, the person will repent of their works and approach Christ solely by their newly received faith. This will make Christ's pathway straight for Him to come and appear to them. He will then gather the newly born child of God to heaven. The child of the devil will remain in the Lake of Fire to perish. This will satisfy justice.

What I just explained above is the conversion process that Christ will accomplish within all mankind. God has spoken it and it will surely come to pass - not by man's works but by Christ's works alone.

Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

The verses below are the spoken Word of God who will "bring it to pass".

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Rom 5:15 But shall not the act of favour be as the offence? For if by the offence of one the many have died, much rather has the grace of God, and the free gift in grace, which is by the one man Jesus Christ, abounded unto the many.

2Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the consummation, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

But you argue that mankind has the power to resist God's "will" of accomplishing all that He has spoken because you believe that mankind has a free will ability. But this is nonsense, especially when you hold it up to the light of truth:

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

The truth you have received and are teaching does not come from God's Word. It is a lie and a deception that comes from the spirit of anti-Christ. Scripture says that all the Elect will experience this "Day of Evil" before Christ returns to them for their salvation. I used to believe as you do but Christ removed those lies from me and open my eyes to the truth. That is when I put my faith in Him to save me. Christ does all the work which has allowed me to enter into His rest. This is true faith and is something that Christ will give to all mankind someday.

Christ is not the false god you follow and teach. That god is a nightmare for mankind. Someday you will understand this to be true because God's Word proclaims that it will happen.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Joe

 

[Aunty Jane]

OK @FaithWillDo can we explore just a few of your statements here…?

Your understanding of God makes Him out to be a weak and merciless father who can only hope that people will turn to Him.

In giving us free will, Jehovah does “hope” that we will turn to him…but he forces no one, as was demonstrated by Jesus, who offered his message of salvation to all in his own nation…..but he never chased after a single person. He left it up to them to respond as their hearts dictated.
Rather than weak and merciless, God is wise and far sighted. He did not create robots….he created free willed humans and gave them choices.
2 Pet 3:9…..
”Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.”
God does not desire anyone to be destroyed…..but that is exactly what will happen if they do not, of their own free will, turn to him and bring their lives into harmony with God’s will.

He desired Adam and his wife to obey the one rule that they both knew, but they chose of their own free will to disobey…..eating of the forbidden fruit was the only cause of death….therefore if they had not eaten it, they would have lived forever. Access to “the tree of life” was available.
If all Adam and his wife could do was sin, then what was the point of the TKGE? It served no purpose if there is no free will….

Your belief in mankind's supposed free will ability is evidently to powerful for Christ to overcome in most people. However, there are ZERO scriptures that state mankind as any free will ability.

The TKGE is proof of man’s free will…..there had to be a choice to either obey and live…or disobey and die….
How could the devil have chosen to sin after eons of faithful existence in the heavens, if he did not have free will?
Deut 30:15-20…Jehovah said to Israel…..
”See, I do put before you today life and good, and death and bad. 16 If you listen to the commandments of Jehovah your God that I am commanding you today, by loving Jehovah your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his judicial decisions, then you will live and multiply, and Jehovah your God will bless you in the land you are going to possess.

17 “But if your heart turns away and you do not listen and you are enticed and bow down to other gods and serve them, 18 I tell you today that you will certainly perish. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to possess. 19 I take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the curse; and you must choose life so that you may live, you and your descendants, 20 by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice, and by sticking to him, for he is your life and by him you will endure a long time in the land that Jehovah swore to give to your forefathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”

These are choices….which would have been completely meaningless unless the ability to make those choices exists…..

I believe your reasoning is faulty.

 

[Aunty Jane]

In fact, God's Word says that no man can even call Jesus "Lord" unless they have been given the Holy Spirit by Christ - and Christ gives this gift by His own choosing without the individual's asking or permission.

This is calling Jesus “Lord” in the heart, not just with empty words.

Conversion comes as a response to hearing the Christian message and responding positively to it…..that is the whole reason why Jesus sent his disciples out to preach….accepting or rejecting the message is what free will allows a heart to do….
Matt 10:11-14…Jesus said….
“Into whatever city or village you enter, search out who in it is deserving, and stay there until you leave. 12 When you enter the house, greet the household. 13 If the house is deserving, let the peace you wish it come upon it; but if it is not deserving, let the peace from you return upon you. 14 Wherever anyone does not receive you or listen to your words, on going out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.”

Who are the “deserving” ones for whom this “search” is conducted? If those who are granted eternal life don’t have to do anything because Jesus does it all for them…..what is the point of the preaching commission?

Why would God give Ezekiel a mandate for Israel…?
”Son of man, I have appointed you as a watchman to the house of Israel; and when you hear a word from my mouth, you must warn them from me. 18 When I say to someone wicked, ‘You will surely die,’ but you do not warn him, and you fail to speak in order to warn the wicked one to turn from his wicked course so that he may stay alive, he will die for his error because he is wicked, but I will ask his blood back from you. 19 But if you warn someone wicked and he does not turn back from his wickedness and from his wicked course, he will die for his error, but you will certainly save your own life. 20 But when someone righteous abandons his righteousness and does what is wrong, I will put a stumbling block before him and he will die. If you did not warn him, he will die for his sin and his righteous acts will not be remembered, but I will ask his blood back from you.”

Where is the basis for you denying free will? It’s all through the Bible.

Mankind is truly at the mercy of Christ to save them. And according to His Word, Christ will do exactly that. When He decides to save a person, He will come to them and do all the spiritual work within them that will change their heart and mind. If Christ didn't do this work, no man would be saved.

No sorry….Those who come to Christ will do their own work with his assistance. We are instructed to search out the deserving ones, and to teach them all that Christ commanded (Matt 28:19-20)…it is up to them to put in the effort if they want the blessing. God blesses effort….he does not reward laziness.

By accepting the false Doctrine of Free Will and believing that it is man's responsibility to approach Christ and accept Him as "Lord" is contradicted by scripture. These beliefs come from the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ and is the sin that leads to death. When a believer mixes their own works with faith, they are trying to serve two masters; Christ and Satan. When they do this mixing, their house will fall.

Actually, when people believe that there is no need at all for works, they do themselves a disservice.
James did not contradict Paul….
James 2:14-20….
”Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it? 15 If any brothers or sisters are lacking clothing and enough food for the day, 16 yet one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but you do not give them what they need for their body, of what benefit is it? 17 So, too, faith by itself, without works, is dead.

18 Nevertheless, someone will say: “You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19 You believe that there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder. 20 But do you care to know, O empty man, that faith without works is useless?”

Good questions!…..because no one can earn everlasting life by any works on their own…..but faith moves one to work in accord with their faith….IOW…..you can’t have one without the other.

As for OSAS….I’m afraid that is a satanic lie.
Jesus said….as part of the sign of the last days….
“and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold. 13 But the one who has endured to the end will be saved.”

Paul also taught something similar…
”For we actually become partakers of the Christ only if we hold firmly down to the end the confidence we had at the beginning.”

Heb 12:1…
”So, then, because we have such a great cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also throw off every weight and the sin that easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us”.

Romans 10:13-14…
”For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” 14 However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach?”….

There it is….the very reason why we are to be preachers.

Paul said that even he did not feel that his salvation was assured….

“Not that I have already received it or am already made perfect, but I am pressing on to see if I may also lay hold on that for which Christ Jesus selected me. 13 Brothers, I do not yet consider myself as having taken hold of it; but one thing is certain: Forgetting the things behind and stretching forward to the things ahead, 14 I am pressing on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God by means of Christ Jesus.”

You have to ignore a whole lot of scripture to believe that we cannot lose our salvation.

 

[Hobie]

If we study Gods Word we find exactly what events events take place at the Second Coming...

1. The Righteous Dead are Raised

For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first. I Thessalonians 4:16

Only the righteous who are "in Christ" are resurrected at the second coming. The rest of the dead are not resurrected until after the millennium (See The Long Awaited Millennium).

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given unto them. And I saw the souls of those that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads or in their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Revelation 20:4,5

The righteous are raised - the unrighteous are not raised until the thousand years are finished.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection... Revelation 20:6

In John 5:28,29, Christ tells us that all shall hear His voice. He talks of two resurrections - "the resurrection of life", and "the resurrection of damnation". These two events are separated by a thousand years.


2. The Righteous Living will be Translated

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them, to meet the Lord in the air. I Thessalonians 4:17

The living righteous ("we which are alive") will be gathered together with the resurrected righteous to meet the Lord in the air. The righteous living will not taste death, but will be translated as were Enoch and Elijah. (Genesis 5:24; 2 Kings 2:11)

Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: 'Death is swallowed up in victory.' 1 Corinthians 15: 51-54

The living righteous are changed in moments at the last trumpet. Our bodies will be changed into the likeness of His glorious body.

For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body... Philippians 3:20, 21

Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He shall appear, we shall be like Him . . and every man that hath this hope in Him, purifieth himself, even as He is pure. 1 John 3:2,3

He will swallow up death in victory, and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of His people shall He take away from off all the earth; for the Lord has spoken it. And it shall be said in that day: 'Lo, this is our God; we have waited for Him, and He will save us. This is the Lord; we have waited for Him; we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation.' Isaiah 25:8,9

3. The Wicked are Slain and the Nations Destroyed

The cry of those who have rejected God is:

And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, and said to the mountains and rocks, 'Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?' Revelation 6:15-17

The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath. He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries. Psalm 110:5,6

There is no peace of nations or joy expressed here at the second coming of the Christ. Those who have slighted the mercy of Christ and sought to destroy his saints will be destroyed by the brightness of His coming. Neither is the Lord a respecter of position. The heads of nations will give an account for their actions. Then the wicked one, the man of sin, will be revealed for what he is.

And then shall the wicked be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8

These people will be destroyed and their bodies will be strewn over the earth.

And the slain of the Lord shall be at that day from one end of the earth, even unto the other end of the earth; they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground. Jeremiah 25:33

They cannot be gathered, lamented or buried because no living being will remain on earth.

I beheld the earth, and indeed it was without form and void; and the heavens, they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and indeed they trembled, and all the hills moved back and forth. I beheld, and indeed there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens had fled. I beheld, and indeed the fruitful land was a wilderness, and all its cities were broken down at the presence of the Lord, by His fierce anger. For thus says the Lord: 'The whole land shall be desolate; yet I will not make a full end.' For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black, because I have spoken. I have purposed and will not relent, nor will I turn back from it. Jeremiah 4:23-28

'I will utterly consume everything from the face of the land,' says the Lord; 'I will consume man and beast; I will consume the birds of the heavens, the fish of the sea, and the stumbling blocks along with the wicked. I will cut off man from the face of the land,' says the Lord. Zephaniah 1:1-3

We must put the truth of Gods Word in our hearts and minds so no one can give us the devils lies...

 

[FaithWillDo]

This is calling Jesus “Lord” in the heart, not just with empty words.

Dear AuntyJane,
Your understanding of "free will" is incorrect. Free will is having the ability to make choices that are free of divine intervention. Scripture strongly teaches that Christ intervenes in all our choices.

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Prov 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

Isa 26:12 O Jehovah, thou appointest peace to us, for, all our works also thou hast wrought for us.

Isa 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

Verses that say to make a "choice" do not mean that mankind has a free will ability to do so. You are adding that to the scripture.

The Old Covenant of Law was given to prove that mankind cannot ever be good enough by their own works. When a fallen away believer realizes this truth, it will be their schoolmaster to lead them to the New Covenant where Christ will do all the works through them. Only in this way can we be acceptable to God.

As for those who are "deserving", they are the ones who have the Early Rain of the Spirit. The Apostles were sent out to find those people and present the Gospel to them. Those who were not given the Early Rain of the Spirit will only reject the Gospel so Christ told the Apostles to move on to another place.

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

John 1:12 But as many as received him (those who were given the Early Rain of the Spirit), to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, BUT OF GOD.

You need to add to your beliefs what these two scriptures above teach. At present, they are void from your understanding.

What I explained above is how it works even up to this day and that is why the foolishness of preaching is necessary - only those who have had their hearts prepared by the Early Rain of the Spirit will make a confession of faith. All others will continue to reject Christ.

You say that I ignore a lot of scripture but I have not. It is your misunderstanding of how God works within mankind that causes you to think so. Christ purposely teaches His truth "here a little and there a little". A person MUST put the pieces of scripture together to understand the truth of God.

Psa 119:160 The sum of your word is truth, and every one of your righteous rules endures forever.

The carnal mind of man will automatically fill in the missing pieces of truth from their preconceived beliefs just as you are doing to support your false belief in mankind's free will ability. The verses you quoted are ALL silent on whether or not the choice that is made is free of God's intervention. To fill in that missing part of those verses, you must look at other scripture like the ones I presented above.

God does not operate in this world as the carnal mind believes He should.

As for doing good works; yes, we are to do good works and follow Christ's commandments of loving God and our neighbors. But when we do these things, it is Christ who is doing them through us. This is actually the way it happens. Christ deserves all the credit and the glory.

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Rev 4:10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

The phrase "twenty four elders" is a spiritual symbol which represents all the Elect. When they cast their crowns before Christ, they are acknowledging that Christ is 100% responsible for who they have become (including their good works).

If a believer does not do good works, it is only because Christ as directed their steps to not do them. They are Christ's workmanship. Think about that for a minute. We act only in the manner that Christ causes us to act. We have no works that we can claim as our own.

Consider this verse:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

This scripture directly contradicts your foundational beliefs.

With your beliefs, those who make the "right" choice in following Christ absolutely have something they can boast about to those who reject Christ. In your mind, you have to believe that you are smarter, wiser or just not has evil as the others, and therefore, you deserve salvation when the others do not. This is what scripture calls filthy rags because it is void of faith.

When you read scriptures, you should not add to them things that fit into your preexisting beliefs. Look to other scripture to fill in the parts that the verse in question is silent on. Take this verse you quoted:

"For we actually become partakers of the Christ only if we hold firmly down to the end the confidence we had at the beginning.”

Our ability to "hold firmly to the end" is given to us and is caused by Christ (to will and do of His good pleasure). You are adding to the verse your belief in your own works to accomplish "holding firm", rather that trusting Christ to make you hold firm. You have no ability to do anything a part from Christ causing it to happen. You should be at rest (the spiritual fulfillment of the Sabbath Day law) but with your beliefs, you are still working.

As for OSAS, all believers will fall away and lose their salvation shortly AFTER they have been given the Early Rain of the Spirit. The verses that teach about falling away only apply to these believers (babes). They are the "many" who make up the 2,000 different denominations/sects of Christianity in the world. They are the apostate church. None of the churches are following Christ. They are following Satan because they all mix works with faith. This is the crooked way of the crooked serpent.

But after Christ gives a chosen believer the Latter Rain of the Spirit, followed by judgment (this is conversion), Christ will not allow them to ever fall away again.

Falling away only happens when a believer mixes their own works with faith. That is the ONLY sin that leads to death (loss of salvation). After a believer is converted, they cannot fall away again because Christ has increased their faith which causes them to fully trust in Him to direct their steps only on the path of righteousness. Any other sin will be dealt with by Christ from His continued teaching of truth to them and by His chastisement. Once the converted believer has become a "perfect man" of full age (fully matured son of God), they will be like Christ who does not ever sin. Don't confuse "sin in general" with the sin of mixing works with faith.

Until Christ comes to a fallen away believer a second time and pours out the Latter Rain of the Spirit, they will remain in an apostate condition. They have no free will ability to change it. In this age, Christ only returns to the chosen Elect. The "many" who have only received the Early Rain of the Spirit will remain in their lost condition until they die. This happens solely to satisfy the purposes of God - just as the conversion of the Elect satisfies the purposes of God. Christ is in full control of everything that happens within His creation. You should not believe differently.

Joe

 

[Bob Estey]

We see Christ laying down what will happen at the Second Coming and the signs and events to watch for...

Matthew 24 King James Version (KJV)
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand.
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Take a close look at one verse especially..
“For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."
Matthew 24:24

Christ repeatedly gave warnings against deception. From what He says in this chapter, these warnings seem to constitute a greater sign of the climax of the ages than any other sign given, with the exception of the worldwide preaching of the gospel. His disciples questioned Him, "When shall these things be?" In reply Christ opened His discourse on the destruction of Jerusalem and the end of the world with a strong warning against deception. His first remark was " Take heed that no man deceive you." in verse 4. Christ connected His warning against deception, not just with the events we would see, but with the spiritual realm.

Satan has set about to plan the last great deception of man. "Jesus is going to come so he must find a way to deceive the world. He is planning a great, masterful delusion to falsify the coming of Christ. Satan wants every man, woman, and child to be duped by the persuasive powers is his plan. And the Bible says it will succeed with everyone, that is, except those who have built a firm foundation upon the Scriptures. The devil is planning one last massive attack against man. The Bible speaks of it.
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves" (Matt. 7:15). "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light" 2 Cor. 11:14.

In Revelation is a description of one last great deception where all the world will be deceived except one small group, the very elect, those who seek put the truth from Christ in their hearts and minds and will go into Gods kingdom.

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Now the serpent was more subtle than any other wild creature that the LORD God had made. Genesis 3:1a RSV

 

[Aunty Jane]

Your understanding of "free will" is incorrect. Free will is having the ability to make choices that are free of divine intervention. Scripture strongly teaches that Christ intervenes in all our choices.

OK….this is an interesting twist. Free will means that we are free to make choices within the parameters of God’s stated will. In Eden, God’s will was clearly stated as to man’s purpose here, (Gen 1:27-28) and the necessity of obedience to only one negative command, (Gen 3:1-7)…..eating of the forbidden fruit…..why was it forbidden…..and what did the death penalty mean if they had no free will to either obey or disobey that command?
Was there “divine intervention” in their choice? Or was it theirs to make of their own free will?
What motivated these three rebels to go against God’s stated command? Each disobeyed God for a different reason…a completely selfish one. Each was taking something that did not belong to them, to seemingly benefit themselves…..yet each one knowing that they were breaking God’s law.
Are you suggesting that this was God’s doing? That he gave them commands that were impossible to keep in their sinless condition?… and that all that transpired after that was intentional on God’s part?

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Prov 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

Isa 26:12 O Jehovah, thou appointest peace to us, for, all our works also thou hast wrought for us.

Isa 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

Does it occur to you that all of these scriptures are addressed to Israel? This nation was God’s property…a people singled out for his purpose and every individual was born in a dedicated relationship with their God, to obey him or to suffer the consequences. His laws applied without their choice or consent.

The Christian faith, under a new covenant however, was very different…..one had to choose to follow Christ, and it meant going against a hostile religious system that were proud and arrogant to the point of silencing the prophets sent to correct them, providing a “type” for the rest of the people to choose, either the “broad road to destruction” or the “cramped and narrow road to life”. (Matt 7:13-14)

Verses that say to make a "choice" do not mean that mankind has a free will ability to do so. You are adding that to the scripture.

You are adding to Scripture by denying it. We are all in the same unsaved condition unless and until we choose to become a footstep follower of Christ, with all that goes with it…..it’s a difficult road, but we prove by our initial acceptance of Jesus as our savior, and our endurance in that choice, that we are on firm ground and despite the assaults that inevitably come, we will not deviate from this path.
Just as you are free to choose your path, so is everyone else, with no “divine intervention” until we make the first move. Only then will God draw us, as a single body of his worshippers who follow Christ’s teachings in all things. (John 6:44; 65)

The Old Covenant of Law was given to prove that mankind cannot ever be good enough by their own works. When a fallen away believer realizes this truth, it will be their schoolmaster to lead them to the New Covenant where Christ will do all the works through them. Only in this way can we be acceptable to God.

The work done in those disciples is indeed produced by God’s spirit….but we have to accept what Jesus is offering first….that is a choice made in the heart…….but having said that, it’s a choice that can be overridden by a deceived heart. According to Jesus, it’s the “many” who are in this condition, who will offer their excuses to the judge of all mankind, saying “did we not prophesy in your name, expel demons…and perform powerful works in your name?” (Matt 7:21-23) and yet Jesus‘ response is “I never knew you”…calling these ones “workers of lawlessness”…..these very ones claiming to be dedicated disciples of Christ Jesus Christ, are deceived by a selfish heart who only want what they want….justifying themselves to themselves….they have served their “god” to no purpose.

 

[Aunty Jane]

As for those who are "deserving", they are the ones who have the Early Rain of the Spirit. The Apostles were sent out to find those people and present the Gospel to them. Those who were not given the Early Rain of the Spirit will only reject the Gospel so Christ told the Apostles to move on to another place.

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

John 1:12 But as many as received him (those who were given the Early Rain of the Spirit), to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, BUT OF GOD.

You need to add to your beliefs what these two scriptures above teach. At present, they are void from your understanding.

You seem fixated in this “early rain” and “late rain” as if it means something way more important than what scripture actually teaches.

James 5:7-8….what did James mean when he mentioned the early rain and the late rain…..?
“Be patient then, brothers, until the presence of the Lord. Look! The farmer keeps waiting for the precious fruit of the earth, exercising patience over it until the early rain and the late rain arrive. 8 You too exercise patience; make your hearts firm, because the presence of the Lord has drawn close.” (Deut 11:14; Jer 5:24)
What was he stressing? PATIENCE!
Waiting for the return of the Lord was going to take patience…and we can see why. Those first century disciples were expecting Christ’s return as something imminent….and yet here we are almost 2000 years after these events, and still waiting…..this is what James meant about patience. Just as these early and late rains were vital to farmers in the Middle East…so too being patient and knowing the surety of them would bring the desired results. They relied on that fact. (Before humans interfered with the reliability of the weather, as they do now)

I believe you have run away with this idea and made it into something it never was.

What I explained above is how it works even up to this day and that is why the foolishness of preaching is necessary - only those who have had their hearts prepared by the Early Rain of the Spirit will make a confession of faith. All others will continue to reject Christ.

“The foolishness of preaching”!? Are you serious? It’s the very thing that Christ commanded his disciples to do…all through his ministry, he sent them out to preach. (Luke 10:1-3) When he spoke of the end times, he said that this work was to be done right up to “the end”…and it required preachers in every nation to go out to the people with the message of God’s Kingdom as man’s only hope.

Humans are at this point in time manufacturing their own world kingdom as a substitute for the one Jesus and his disciples preached about…..this is the “abomination of desolation standing in the holy place” that Daniel wrote about. This man made substitute kingdom will claim to be what was prophesied to come, but it is the devil’s last stand to take as many as he can deceive, down with him…..

Daniel foretold that it is the time of the present world rulers that God’s kingdom will “come” and “crush” all these worldly kingdoms out of existence and replace them as man’s only ruling authority. (Daniel 2:44)
Any supporters of man’s rulership will go down with them.

The carnal mind of man will automatically fill in the missing pieces of truth from their preconceived beliefs just as you are doing to support your false belief in mankind's free will ability. The verses you quoted are ALL silent on whether or not the choice that is made is free of God's intervention. To fill in that missing part of those verses, you must look at other scripture like the ones I presented above.

God does not operate in this world as the carnal mind believes He should.

Perhaps this also applies equally to yourself. What Scriptures are you concentrating on, whilst ignoring the rest?

As for doing good works; yes, we are to do good works and follow Christ's commandments of loving God and our neighbors. But when we do these things, it is Christ who is doing them through us. This is actually the way it happens. Christ deserves all the credit and the glory.

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Yes it is God working through those who have chosen of their own free will to become footstep followers of Christ….these are the ones Christ is working through and they form a global body of Christian preachers who are out actively serving their God as Christ encouraged his disciples to do…right to ”the end” (Matt 24:14)

 

[Aunty Jane]

Consider this verse:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

This scripture directly contradicts your foundational beliefs.

As already acknowledged….no works of themselves can save anyone….it is the works prompted by faith that have God’s approval…..one of those works in demonstration of our faith is preaching.

2 Tim 4:1-5…
”I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his manifestation and his Kingdom: 2 Preach the word; be at it urgently in favorable times and difficult times; reprove, reprimand, exhort, with all patience and art of teaching. 3 For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled. 4 They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories. 5 You, though, keep your senses in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelizer, fully accomplish your ministry.”

There it is….our commission to be carried out until “the end”.…in spite of those who adopted false teachings and told their charges that no preaching is necessary unless it is in church and people can wander in of their own accord…..that is not what Christ taught.

When you read scriptures, you should not add to them things that fit into your preexisting beliefs. Look to other scripture to fill in the parts that the verse in question is silent on. Take this verse you quoted:

"For we actually become partakers of the Christ only if we hold firmly down to the end the confidence we had at the beginning.”

Our ability to "hold firmly to the end" is given to us and is caused by Christ (to will and do of His good pleasure).

And you are not guilty of this yourself? You are making up your own version of Scripture and being led to believe that it’s all true….coming straight from God….yet thousands of people make the same claim…what makes you right and equally sincere ones wrong? Does the holy spirit speak with a forked tongue? Or is it the serpent who does that?
I find none of what you claim to be true, or in accord with the Bible’s narrative……contrary to what you might want to believe.
This apparently requires no effort on our part…? Why then the need for endurance?

As for OSAS, all believers will fall away and lose their salvation shortly AFTER they have been given the Early Rain of the Spirit.

There it is again….you’re making things up. This is not in the Bible at all.

They are the apostate church. None of the churches are following Christ. They are following Satan because they all mix works with faith. This is the crooked way of the crooked serpent.

But after Christ gives a chosen believer the Latter Rain of the Spirit, followed by judgment (this is conversion), Christ will not allow them to ever fall away again.

The choosing of the anointed whilst they are still on earth is not a guarantee that one will remain faithful, just as the man chosen by Christ as a faithful apostle, who partook of the holy spirit, betrayed him.

Even those chosen for a role in the heavenly kingdom must endure faithfully until death.
(Rev 2:10; 2 Peter 2:20-22; Heb 6:4-6; Heb 10:26-29; Matt 24:13)

Falling away only happens when a believer mixes their own works with faith. That is the ONLY sin that leads to death (loss of salvation).

Good grief….a genuine believer will try their best never to boast over any good work, but attribute all to the Creator, his son, and the operation of his spirit. “Sin“ leads to death, no matter what form it takes. How many ways are there to sin?

After a believer is converted, they cannot fall away again because Christ has increased their faith which causes them to fully trust in Him to direct their steps only on the path of righteousness. Any other sin will be dealt with by Christ from His continued teaching of truth to them and by His chastisement. Once the converted believer has become a "perfect man" of full age (fully matured son of God), they will be like Christ who does not ever sin. Don't confuse "sin in general" with the sin of mixing works with faith.

Is there a difference? Since when can perfection come in imperfect flesh? Humans are subject to sin as long as they breathe the air of this world…..if such perfection was possible for a human descendant of Adam, then Christ’s sacrifice would never have been needed to redeem mankind. Any human savior could have volunteered to sacrificed themselves for his sin. Why do you think Christ had to come from outside the now sinful human race, to be born sinless? “The last Adam”….

Until Christ comes to a fallen away believer a second time and pours out the Latter Rain of the Spirit, they will remain in an apostate condition. They have no free will ability to change it.

That is complete nonsense.…the “rain“ again…..based only on your own unique interpretation of Scripture…

In this age, Christ only returns to the chosen Elect. The "many" who have only received the Early Rain of the Spirit will remain in their lost condition until they die. This happens solely to satisfy the purposes of God - just as the conversion of the Elect satisfies the purposes of God. Christ is in full control of everything that happens within His creation. You should not believe differently.

Again, that makes no sense. Your “rain” is a false premise, so what you build on it is also false.
I have to wonder what “conversion” means in your mind?
The elect are “converted” long before Christ takes them to heaven…..it is they who are charged with the commission to preach….it is not a request, but a command. None can be saved who have neglected this responsibility. (Matt 28:19-20)
“And the spirit and the bride keep on saying, “Come!” and let anyone hearing say, “Come!” and let anyone thirsting come; let anyone who wishes take life’s water free.” (Rev 22:17)

This invitation is issued to “anyone who wishes” to “take life’s water free”…..”the bride” are not included with those “hearing”…these are free to accept the invitation of their own free will.

 

[FaithWillDo]

OK….this is an interesting twist. Free will means that we are free to make choices within the parameters of God’s stated will.

Dear AuntyJane,
You said:
What motivated these three rebels to go against God’s stated command?

They were made spiritually marred and subject to vanity. The flaw in man's spirit is its weakness. Because it is weak, the flesh has no problem governing the mind, thus making it carnal. It is the carnal mind that causes mankind to sin. Eve even displayed her carnal mind PRIOR to her sinning:

Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food (LUST OF THE FLESH), and that it was pleasant to the eyes (LUST OF THE EYES), and a tree to be desired to make one wise (PRIDE OF LIFE), she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Christ made Adam and Eve so that the only choice they would make was to sin. Christ even admits this here:

Ecc 7:13 Consider the work of God: for who can make that straight, which he hath made crooked?

Ecc 1:13 An experience of evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

It was no accident that Adam and Eve sinned. It was planned and caused by God so that they would experience evil along with all their offspring. Adam and Eve did not have a free will ability to decide differently.

You said:
“The foolishness of preaching”!? Are you serious? It’s the very thing that Christ commanded his disciples to do...

1Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Christ first gives the Early Rain of the Spirit to an unbeliever. When they hear the Gospel, they will make a confession of faith. As Paul says, it happens "by the foolishness of preaching".

You said:
You are adding to Scripture by denying it. We are all in the same unsaved condition unless and until we choose to become a footstep follower of Christ.

I am not adding to scripture. God chose from the beginning who Christ will save in this age. They are the only ones to whom Christ will convert by giving them the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit, followed by judgment. That is why scripture says that they are blessed.

The verses below apply:

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Mar 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

Rom 16:13 Salute Rufus chosen in the Lord, and his mother and mine.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

2Thes 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

You said:
Perhaps this also applies equally to yourself. What Scriptures are you concentrating on, whilst ignoring the rest?

I do not ignore any scriptures and there are no scriptures which contradict what I teach. If you believe that scripture contradicts what I teach, show me the verses. The ones you have previously presented agree with my understanding.

You said:
That is complete nonsense.…the “rain“ again…..based only on your own unique interpretation of Scripture…

If a person has not received both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit, they will remain spiritually blind and will not be able to understand the spiritual teachings of Christ under the New Covenant. This truth is taught by Paul's conversion experience and by the healing of a blind man in Mark 8:15-25.

Hos 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he (Christ) shall come unto us as the RAIN, as the Latter and Early RAIN unto the earth.

Jer 3:3 Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no Latter Rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat (the Elect) harvest to day? (Day of conversion/salvation) I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder and RAIN (the Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see that your wickedness is great (became a man of sin), which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.

The time a believer spends between the Early and the Latter Rains is a time of great tribulation when they become apostate and have a "whore's forehead". It happens to all new believers. It cannot be avoided because a new believer remains spiritually blind after being given the Early Rain of the Spirit. All the Elect will become apostate before Christ converts them. It is part of the pathway that the Elect must travel to their salvation.

You said:
I have to wonder what “conversion” means in your mind?

I have presented to you over and over again what scripture teaches about conversion. Are you not reading my posts?

Conversion is a spiritual process that begins when Christ pours out the Latter Rain of the Spirit (baptism of the Spirit) on one of His chosen Elect. With the Latter Rain, the fallen away Elect believer will be restored to salvation which they lost when the Abomination of Desolation occurred within them. The Latter Rain will also heal their spiritual blindness so that the truth of Christ's teachings will open up to their understanding. With this knowledge of the truth, judgment will fall. The purpose of that judgment is to remove the spirit of anti-Christ and the Great Harlot (their carnal nature) from within them (Mat 24:40-41). After this judgment is complete, all that will remain within the believer is the full measure of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit will then cause the believer to walk by faith and produce good works (Phi 2:13). When the spiritual process of conversion is complete, the believer will spiritually dwell in heaven rather than on the earth where carnal mankind dwells. Their salvation will then be secured forever.

You quoted:
“And the spirit and the bride keep on saying, “Come!” and let anyone hearing say, “Come!” and let anyone thirsting come; let anyone who wishes take life’s water free.” (Rev 22:17)

The bride represents all the Elect who are reigning with Christ in the final age over the "lost" who are being judged. Before the "lost" perish in the Lake of Fire (represents judgment), Christ will have mercy upon them and give them the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit (Mat 24:24 and Joel chapter 2). With the Spirit, they will be converted. At some point during this process of conversion, the Elect and the Spirit will make the call for them to come and drink the water of life (the Holy Spirit).

I know you made other comments but if you can't receive what I have already presented, showing you more and more scriptures will not help you understand either.

This scripture below is one of the easiest teaching of the New Covenant to understand. However, for an apostate believer who has a "works" based belief system, it is one of the hardest to to believe.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

If you can't believe it, I recommend that you pray for more faith. Christ is the only one who gives this gift.

Joe

 

[Aunty Jane]

They were made spiritually marred and subject to vanity. The flaw in man's spirit is its weakness. Because it is weak, the flesh has no problem governing the mind, thus making it carnal. It is the carnal mind that causes mankind to sin. Eve even displayed her carnal mind PRIOR to her sinning:

God does not make flawed beings…his works and ways are “perfect”.
What did Moses write concerning “The Rock”? How could God make “marred” beings and then punish them for being ”marred” and making bad choices to sin?

“The Rock, perfect is his activity,
For all his ways are justice.
A God of faithfulness who is never unjust;
Righteous and upright is he.“

Christ made Adam and Eve so that the only choice they would make was to sin. Christ even admits this here:

Ecc 7:13 Consider the work of God: for who can make that straight, which he hath made crooked?

Ecc 1:13 An experience of evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

It was no accident that Adam and Eve sinned. It was planned and caused by God so that they would experience evil along with all their offspring. Adam and Eve did not have a free will ability to decide differently.

So all the human suffering and heinous evil acts perpetrated by man in this world, are things premeditated by the Creator in advance of his creation…..he actually planned it all? Good grief!
What was the purpose of the TKGE? Why put that tree in the garden if there was no way to avoid sinning because they were created to be sinful? What utter nonsense! What kind of loving God would do that?

1Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

That is a very twisted interpretation of that scripture…

NASB…”For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.”

ESV…”For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.”

NET…”For since in the wisdom of God the world by its wisdom did not know God, God was pleased to save those who believe by the foolishness of preaching.”

NLT…”Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe.“

Are you getting the sense of what is said in this verse? You concentrate on a few words out of context to support something the Scriptures clearly do not teach.

The necessity to preach never went away…..the preaching that Christ commanded was to ascertain who among mankind would respond to what was viewed a “foolishness“ by the population that was preached to….by and large, only a foolish-looking minority took the Christian message seriously.

1 Cor 1:26-29…
”For you see his calling of you, brothers, that there are not many wise in a fleshly way, not many powerful, not many of noble birth, 27 but God chose the foolish things of the world to put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world to put the strong things to shame; 28 and God chose the insignificant things of the world and the things looked down on, the things that are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 so that no one might boast in the sight of God.”

God chose to make his true worshippers look foolish to those who only accepted what they chose to believe...those “blinded” by the devil. (2 Cor 4:3-4) No light can shine through such darkness.

Whilst you are out on that limb upon which you personally chose to set up house, you have little to no company who support what you accept as your truth. What kind of loving God makes the truth so obscure that only individuals like yourself can acquire it? You have a direct line to God, do you? So do many thousands of others……whom are we to believe? What makes your truth more believable than anyone else’s?

You have to ignore so much scripture to hang on to your unique take on specific scriptures……but ignoring them or putting your own spin on them, does not make them correct. When Christ comes to judge us all…there are only “sheep and goats” in the world…..we will all be in either one category or the other….on “the narrow road to life” or the “broad road to death”…..that is for Jesus to decide….but he already knows who belong to him…..because of the preaching work he assigned them to do….right to the end. (Matt 24:14; Matt 28:19-20)

If you can't believe it, I recommend that you pray for more faith. Christ is the only one who gives this gift.

Perhaps you should take your own advice….I cannot believe what is not truth….

 

[FaithWillDo]

God does not make flawed beings…his works and ways are “perfect”.

Dear AuntyJane,
Scripture clearly says that He made us spiritually flawed. The flaw is our spirit's weakness which allows mankind to become carnally minded.

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was MARRED in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly,...

After Christ has given a person both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit, the Spirit within them will make them spiritually powerful and strong. This is the new vessel that the potter will make.

Joel 3:10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.

When Christ came into the world, Christ had the full measure of the Holy Spirit indwelling Him. Though Christ was given the same body of flesh as mankind, He was spiritually different. And because of this difference, the Christ never became carnally minded and sinful as mankind does.

You asked:
How could God make “marred” beings and then punish them for being ”marred” and making bad choices to sin?

Paul was asked a similar question below:

Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, WHY DOES HE YET FIND FAULT? FOR WHO HATH RESISTED HIS WILL? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

Christ created mankind to be spiritually marred so that mankind would become captives to sin and have an experience of evil. Why? Because Christ wants His children to have a knowledge of good and evil. After evil has run its course, Christ will convert all mankind to be spiritually like Him.

You asked:
So all the human suffering and heinous evil acts perpetrated by man in this world, are things premeditated by the Creator in advance of his creation…..he actually planned it all?

Yes. Scripture clearly it.

Job 2:10 But he said to her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. We have also received good from God, and should we not receive evil? In all this Job did not sin with his lips.

Ecc 1:13 An experience of evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

Ezek 14:9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and CREATE EVIL: I the LORD do all these things.

Even Satan was created to be mankind's destroyer:

Isa 54:16 ...and I have created the waster to destroy.

What mankind is experiencing now are the pangs of birth. It is through much tribulation that mankind enters into the Kingdom of Heaven (Acts 14:22).

You asked:
Why put that tree in the garden if there was no way to avoid sinning because they were created to be sinful?

Christ put the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden because He wanted mankind to have that knowledge. Christ even placed Satan in the Garden to tempt Eve to cause her to eat from the forbidden tree. Nothing of what occurred in the Garden was by chance or by mankind's supposed free will. Christ planned and caused it all to happen.

Mankind is learning about evil now by experiencing evil. After evil has run its course, mankind will experience the goodness of God after each person has been converted. Christ was sent into the world for this purpose:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

You said:
The necessity to preach never went away…..the preaching that Christ commanded was to ascertain who among mankind would respond to what was viewed a “foolishness“ by the population that was preached to...

I have never said that the necessity to preach ever went away. In fact, I said that the pathway to salvation uses the foolishness of preaching to save mankind. After Christ gives a person the Early Rain of the Spirit (without their asking or permission), they will make a confession of faith AFTER a person comes to them and explains the Gospel by the foolishness of preaching. Those are are given the Early Rain of the Spirit are the ONLY ONES who will make a confession of faith:

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

The gift of the Early Rain of the Spirit is how Christ prepares a person's heart so that they will accept Him as "Lord".

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

The Spirit must be given beforehand or a person will never accept Christ when they hear the Gospel preached.

A person's supposed free will ability plays no part in their decision to accept Christ because it was Christ who chose them by His decision to give them the Spirit. After they are given the Spirit, accepting Him as Lord is the only decision they will make.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children...

Rev 17:14 ...they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

When you claim that you made a free will choice to accept Christ, you are stealing from the Lord by claiming His work as your own.

You said:
God chose to make his true worshippers look foolish to those who only accepted what they chose to believe...those “blinded” by the devil. (2 Cor 4:3-4) No light can shine through such darkness.

No, God did not make his true worshippers "look foolish". The scripture says that they were "foolish" and not wise by worldly standards (not wise in a fleshly way). Also, the foolishness of preaching does not relate to the scripture you quoted above. You are misapplying it.

You said:
You have to ignore so much scripture to hang on to your unique take on specific scriptures……but ignoring them or putting your own spin on them, does not make them correct.

There are no scriptures that contradict what I have presented you. Where are those scriptures you keep referring to?

You said:
When Christ comes to judge us all…there are only “sheep and goats” in the world…..

When Christ comes to judge one of His Elect, it occurring immediately after He has given them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. This is when their faith is restored and when the they are "born again". His judgment is for the purpose of removing the "chaff" (everything that makes them carnal) from within them. After His judgment is complete, the person is converted from a child of the devil into a child of God. This is our salvation.

The "end" comes upon the Elect when they receive the Latter Rain of the Spirit. Then, because the believer's spiritual blindness is healed at that time, Christ will appear and the Day of the Lord will begin. When their judgment day arrives, they are found to be blameless because they are covered by the blood of Christ. The Law will no longer be able to condemn them (John 8:3-11).

1Cor 1:8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end (when they are given the Latter Rain of the Spirit), that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

At the end of this literal age, the resurrection from the grave will occur for all mankind. Every person will then appear before the White Throne of Christ where He will separate the sheep (the Elect) from the goats (everyone else). This is not the Day of the Lord that is taught in scripture.

In this age, the Day of the Lord occurs after a person has been given the Latter Rain of the Spirit. It's purpose is to remove the person's chaff so that they can be purified (no carnality remaining).

In the next age, the Day of the Lord will begin for those who are found to be goats at the White Throne. They will be cast into the Lake of Fire for judgment by the Law. Since the penalty of sin according to the law is death, the Lake of Fire will destroy those who are cast into it. However, before a single person perishes, Christ will have mercy upon them and give them faith (Mat 24:24). Their gift of faith comes from Christ freely giving them the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. Because of their faith, Christ's pathway will be made straight for Him to come and appear to them. When He appears, Christ will gather the newly born child of God up to heaven, leaving only the child of the devil in the Lake of Fire where he will perish. This satisfies justice.

Joe