Why the great chain?

[Jay Ross]

Perhaps the clue can be found in Ezekiel 34:25-26: -

​

25 "I will make a covenant of peace with them and cause wild/evil beasts[1] to cease from the land/earth; and they will dwell safely in the wilderness and sleep in the woods. 26 I will make them and the places all around My hill[2] a blessing; and I will cause showers to come down in their season; there shall be showers of blessing.​

with understanding.

---

[1] This is a reference to God’s judgement of the beastly Heavenly Hosts who will be judged during the time that God is turning His attention once more towards the Israelites in our near future, around the year 2044 AD give or take a year or so either way because of the uncertainty in the understanding of the relationship between God’s timeframe and man’s understanding.
Isaiah 24:21-22 speaks of God Judging the Heavenly Hosts in Heaven and the kings of the earth on the earth and that they will be gathered together with the kings of the earth and imprisoned in a cistern/pit for many days to await the time of their punishment.

Daniel 7:11-12 also speaks of the time of the judgement of the four Beasts, referred to as the four winds of Heaven in Daniel 7:2 that causes a manifestation of the four respective beasts to rise up out of the sea of humanity with the dominate characteristic of the four respective beasts.
In Revelation 16:12-16 we are told that the kings of the earth after the signs performed by the three foul frog like spirits when they went out from the mouth of the Dragon, the False Prophet and the Beast would be to assemble them for battle, on the great day of God the Almighty at Armageddon where they will be judged as Isaiah 24:21-22 prophesied.

Paul wrote in Romans 11:25-26, that when the fullness with respect to time, that has been set for the Gentiles to trample God’s Sanctuary and His earthly Hosts, has drawn to its conclusion, after the 2,300-year period, and the subsequent judgement of the kings of the earth, all of Israel will be saved.
Ezekiel 34:28 repeats this same theme, where it points a second time to the beasts being removed from the face of the earth and not troubling Israel for a period of 1,000-years.

[2] God is using a metaphor to reference the Religion that will be establish as an integral part of His Everlasting Kingdom during the time of the kings mentioned in the Statue prophecy in Daniel 2 as He begins gathering Israel to Himself after the completion of the visitation of the iniquities of the fathers of the nation of Israel are visited upon their children and the children’s children to the end of the fourth age. The basis of this hill/religion with be the foundation stone that will come down out of heaven for the nation of the Israelites is that Jesus/Christ is the Son of God. The stone that comes down out of heaven we are told in Daniel will become a great mountain and fill the whole earth (Daniel 2:35)​

 

[William Barton]

At the return of Jesus Satan will be chained and imprisoned deep in the earth for 1000 years (Revelation 20:1-3).

 

[TribulationSigns]

At the return of Jesus Satan will be chained and imprisoned deep in the earth for 1000 years (Revelation 20:1-3).

 

[Jay Ross]

At the return of Jesus Satan will be chained and imprisoned deep in the earth for 1000 years (Revelation 20:1-3).

Really William?

Luke 14:28-33 might give you clarification if you are suggesting that at the return of Jesus Satan is imprisoned deep in the earth. This passage tells us that the Israelites will attempt to rebuild the temple, but this triggers a very negative response from the kings reigning on the face of the earth and their judgement in line with Isaiah 24:21-22 at the place Armageddon, and that while the Heavenly Host is judging Satan, the heavenly beasts and the kings of the earth, then Isreal will seek God's terms of peace and will then repent such that God will begin gathering them to Himself.

Shalom

 

[ewq1938]

Really William?

Luke 14:28-33 might give you clarification if you are suggesting that at the return of Jesus Satan is imprisoned deep in the earth.

Luk 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Luk 14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
Luk 14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
Luk 14:31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
Luk 14:32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.
Luk 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

This passage tells us that the Israelites will attempt to rebuild the temple,

No, it does not say that.

 

[Jay Ross]

No, it does not say that.

All that you have provided is you own personal opinion.

When God built a garden what was the function of the tower in the middle of the garden?

Here is that parable: -

Matt 21:33-41: - The Parable of the Wicked Vinedressers​

(Mark 12:1-12; Luke 20:9-19)​

​

33 "Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. 34 Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. 35 And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another. 36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them. 37 Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, 'They will respect my son.' 38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, 'This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.' 39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.​

​

40 "Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?"​

​

41 They said to Him, "He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons."​

NKJV​

My understand of the function of the tower was that it was a temple. When David decided to build a Temple to God did he not build that temple upon a grape press?

 

[quietthinker]

Why the great chain?​

I guess Mr Hitler was 'chained' when he realised the allies had gotten the upper hand. Was he put into a 'pit'? You betcha.
Reading scripture with maturity clearly means ones understanding has left childish (immature) ways of seeing behind.

 

[William Barton]

"Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for one thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it, and sealed it on over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released a little while."
(Revelation 20:1-3):

"0ne thousand years" is the "Millennial Reign" of Jesus (Revelation 20:1-6).

After that, there is a new heavens and new earth (Revelation chapters 21, 22). No more tears (Revelation 21:4).

It's in the Book.

 

[William Barton]

Really William?

Luke 14:28-33 might give you clarification if you are suggesting that at the return of Jesus Satan is imprisoned deep in the earth. This passage tells us that the Israelites will attempt to rebuild the temple, but this triggers a very negative response from the kings reigning on the face of the earth and their judgement in line with Isaiah 24:21-22 at the place Armageddon, and that while the Heavenly Host is judging Satan, the heavenly beasts and the kings of the earth, then Isreal will seek God's terms of peace and will then repent such that God will begin gathering them to Himself.

Shalom

I think you cited the wrong Bible passage.

 

[ewq1938]

All that you have provided is you own personal opinion.

No, I supplied the verses you claimed said the Israelites were going to rebuild the temple but the passage says no such thing.

 

[Jay Ross]

I think you cited the wrong Bible passage.

If you believe that I referenced the wrong passage, please provide your proof and the correct passage that I should have referenced.

 

[Jay Ross]

No, I supplied the verses you claimed said the Israelites were going to rebuild the temple but the passage says no such thing.

It seems to me that you have lost track of what the metaphors represent. A tower represents a temple that the Israelites will attempt to build.

It is as clear as day for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear.

 

[ewq1938]

It seems to me that you have lost track of what the metaphors represent. A tower represents a temple that the Israelites will attempt to build.

There is nothing in the passage that supports thetwower being a temple the Israelites try to build and fail.

The passage teaches no on builds something without first knowing if they can afford to build it. It says no pone woul;d build a foundtion thgen have no way to afford to continue the construction and that ppl would mock such a person. It doesn't hve anything to do with a possible fiuture temple project.

It is as clear as day for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear.

It's clear as mud. You are using Eisegesis to force your beliefs into that text.

 

[Jay Ross]

There is nothing in the passage that supports the tower being a temple the Israelites try to build and fail.

The passage teaches no on builds something without first knowing if they can afford to build it. It says no one would build a foundation then have no way to afford to continue the construction and that people would mock such a person. It doesn't have anything to do with a possible future temple project.

There are threads on this forum which claim that Israel already has the necessary components with which to build a third Temple. The very presence of a "committee" overseeing the construction of a third temple today, tells me that my understanding of Luke 14 :28-33 that the tower represents the temple that they are wanting to build.

It's clear as mud. You are using Eisegesis to force your beliefs into that text.

Sadly verse 30 in the translation you have quoted above has been translated to say that a single person was responsible for the "tower" to be built, whereas in verse 28 the collective pronoun "you" was used where Jesus was speaking of the whole audience that was listening to Him.

The quoted claim you have made can be turned back upon yourself because of your unbelief; "you are using Eisegesis to force your beliefs into that text." Or worse still you are blindly accepting a "committee's" rendering of the Greek Text and it is not contextually consistent.

Presently we are seeing the evidence in the reports being made from Isreal. Let us see, if within the next 19 years, whether or not Israel attempts to build a Temple upon the old temple mound.

Now I am using the Biblical text coupled with present day evidence to claim that the Israelites are wanting to build a third temple in our near future.

 

[ewq1938]

There are threads on this forum which claim that Israel already has the necessary components with which to build a third Temple. The very presence of a "committee" overseeing the construction of a third temple today, tells me that my understanding of Luke 14 :28-33 that the tower represents the temple that they are wanting to build.

Again, the passage has nothing to do with building a third temple.

 

[Jay Ross]

Again, the passage has nothing to do with building a third temple.

Again, you are entitled to hold your own opinion based upon you own reading/Eisegesis of the Greek text/the English translations.

It seems to me that you are not a patient person who is prepared to wait for the future events to unfold to confirm who might be right.

It would seem to be prudent for us to simple agree to disagree and let the unfolding events show who might be closer to the mark at this present time.

Goodbye for now

 

[William Barton]

Luk 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Luk 14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
Luk 14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
Luk 14:31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
Luk 14:32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.
Luk 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.




No, it does not say that.

Possibly referring to an extra storage tower (like adding an extra garage to a modern house)--must make sure you have the money.

 

[William Barton]

Really William?

Luke 14:28-33 might give you clarification if you are suggesting that at the return of Jesus Satan is imprisoned deep in the earth. This passage tells us that the Israelites will attempt to rebuild the temple, but this triggers a very negative response from the kings reigning on the face of the earth and their judgement in line with Isaiah 24:21-22 at the place Armageddon, and that while the Heavenly Host is judging Satan, the heavenly beasts and the kings of the earth, then Isreal will seek God's terms of peace and will then repent such that God will begin gathering them to Himself.

Shalom

Jay Ross explained:
<Satan is imprisoned deep in the earth>

That is noted in Revelation 20:1-3. He is imprisoned during the 1000-years reign of Jesus, solitary confinement.

 

[Brakelite]

I know your position and where you're likely going with this. But I'll give you my bit anyway. The chain is not intended to be a physical chain, since Satan is a spiritual being. But if this device, whatever it is, imprisons him, then it is quite literally a kind of "chain." It doesn't have to be a metal chain--it is a chain if links are so connected that escape is not allowed. Whatever it is, this is the case for a thousand years.

It is a chain of circumstances that deny Satan the ability to tempt the nations. The reason for that is that is that during the coming 1000 years the nations are no more. The earth is empty, barren, lifeless. It is in a state of absolute decay and ruin after the plagues and earthquakes etc destroy it. Satan is alone with his demons to consider his position and all the ruin and death he brought upon God's creation. But he will never repent or regret. At the end of the 1000 years at the second resurrection of the dead, all the wicked well be gathered into one vasr army tray to attack the Holy city when it descends out of heaven along with the redeemed from all ages. They will then be finally judged, fire coming down and destroying them all. This is the lake of fire which cleanses the planet of everything that defiles it. Sin. Sinners. Pollution. Death. Then the earth is recreated and becomes the eternal home to be inherited by the meek.

 

[ewq1938]

It is a chain of circumstances that deny Satan the ability to tempt the nations. The reason for that is that is that during the coming 1000 years the nations are no more.

Which makes no sense, and contradicts whart Rev 19 says about the nations being rules by a rod of iron after Armageddon. If the nations ceased to exist, no chain of any sort would be needed to stop satan from deceiving them. That teaching is non-biblical. Read and believe what the scriptures say about this and reject all other teachings:

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite (Aorist tense verb with PRESENT tense meaning) the nations: and he shall rule (FUTURE tense verb) them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth (PRESENT tense verb) the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

https://www.blueletterbible .org/kjv/rev/19/15/t_conc_1186015

https://biblehub .com/interlinear/revelation/19-15.htm

(remove the spaces before .com and .org in the two links)


Here rule/poimaino is in the FUTURE tense meaning it will happen at some point AFTER the second coming and battle of Armageddon while treadeth/pateo is written in the PRESENT tense meaning it is happening during this second coming. The treading and smiting are happening at Armageddon but not the ruling which proves some mortals will be alive after Armageddon is over. This proves the Premill position because indeed there is a future rule of people who were not slain during the second coming that Christ and his saints will rule over.

A second witness to this:

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

That is the second coming. Everything we read of next comes after the second coming:

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers. They will be given power over the mortal unsaved nations after Christ has returned.