Why water into wine?

[perrero]

God knows - but He doesn't choose that fate for each person.

Just as I thought. You contradict yourself in one sentence.
If God knows, He creates and chooses. You are a Calvinist at the core.

As for all the rest I'm not getting into it. As I previously stated.

 

[Sword]

I already answered the question.

Not only DOES the Catholic Church lay hands on the sick and anoint them - it is a Sacrament of the Church.
Anointing of the Sick is NOT a Protestant Sacrament - it's a Catholic Sacrament.

As for your being offended - your remark in post 194 shows your frustration - and spelling deficiency . . .
"I will leave you now and ask that you dont trow down the gaunlet in here any more."

I asked you for evidence of the CC laying hands on the sick. do you have any?
And if my spelling is your evidance of my frustration. I would say its a sign of yours . Its funny how every time I beat someone in a forum they call out my spelling. If you read my very forst post in the forum you would see the same spelling errors. But you think exposing dislexia id funny and a cool thing to do in public????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Just like Jesus did??????????????????????????????
Is that all you have in a debate????????????????
So once again please show me where I am frustrated and offended? Thats two things your now accusing me off.

Your not alone your the third person on here to pull me on my spelling.

I am not frustrated I am not offended. I am if anything just a little disaapointed at so called christians representing Christ in public in a very poor light. who would be attracted to you because of the direspecfull posts you are making here?

 

[Marymog]

OK, 2 questions! Do you believe that God is the author of evil? Careful, because your answer may be contradicted by the next answer. Do you believe that God knows all the people who are going to heaven and all that are going to hell?
Having said that if you want to have a discussion about this, start a conversation with me and we will discuss it alone.

I don't understand why you can't just answer my legitimate question. Instead you ask me questions. I don't want to have a discussion or conversation about it. I just want an answer.

We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.(Romans 6:4)
"having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead." (Colossians 2:12)

I don't see in either of those two verses ANYTHING about a public confession no matter how hard I twist it.

If you liked the definition of Repentance, then surely you recognize that no infant is capable of this before baptism. When Paul was speaking to the crowd at Pentecost, these were mostly adults on pilgrimage. Granted there may have been women with infants there, but Paul's first gospel address was certainly not to the infants. When Paul said; "Repent, and be baptized every one of you" it was in response to the question of the people (the adults who understood his whole discourse) which was; "What shall we do?".
What is to you and your children? It is the promise, the promise of the Holy Spirit NOT the promise of baptism. In the last days God will pour out His Spirit on all flesh NOT pour out baptism on all flesh.
Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them;...Are you perrero guilty of hindering the children? That's your verse to support "infant baptism"? Are you kidding me?

It saddens me you that you can't articulate a legitimate defense of your 'baptism is a SYMBOL and infant baptism is prohibited theory'. I have met YOUR criteria, which I remind you is not based on ANY verse in scripture, that I provide two or three verses from scripture to back up what I believe. You have admitted you have NO SCRIPTURE to back up your infant baptism theory and the two you provided about public confession says NOTHING about a public confession. And then you ask ME if I am kidding? Just answer the question. Are you perrero guilty of hindering the children?

Do you believe that every church father was 100% correct in their teaching and theology? If you don't then how do you determine what they said or wrote is right or wrong. You have to take what is written or declared and compare it to the scriptures, which IS 100% correct, and see if it lines up with that. So I don't put much into what anybody says, except what lines up with scriptures. Trust me it's a good habit to get into.

No, I do not believe that every Church Father was correct in ALL their teaching. However, what I believe is backed up with scripture, Church Fathers and 1,800 years of Church History. You want me to believe the Church Fathers are wrong about this and perrero is right?

 

[Marymog]

This is not about protestant versus catholic churches.
Lets stick to my question can we. I asked for proof of that caolic church laying hands on the sick and seeing them healed. I was brought up in a very strong catholic area. I never heard of the catholic church laying hands on the sick and seeing them healed. So I dont attened a protestant church.
So the very difficult question for you or seems to be anyway. Can you provide any evidance of the catholic church doing this yes or no?
If its no as I believe just say so. Dont be running around looking at what others are not doing. You throw down the gauntlet. Now its time to answer the question you been trying to avoid.

Hi Sword,

Your accusation peeked my interest so I did a few minutes worth of research. Instead of accepting my word, and if you have 2 minutes of your life to spare, search "healing mass" and "catholic healing priest". Your accusation, according to my research, falls flat. I also researched BreadOfLifes statements about Catholic practices and can't find any fault in his statement.

I'm not taking sides. Just revealing what MY research shows.

Love......Mary

 

[BreadOfLife]

Just as I thought. You contradict yourself in one sentence.
If God knows, He creates and chooses. You are a Calvinist at the core.

As for all the rest I'm not getting into it. As I previously stated.

Wrong.
If you believe that God chooses our fate - then YOU are the Calvinist.

God is outside of time. He sees everything as a "finished painting". This doesn't mean that He makes our choices FOR us.
Not sure where you get off calling me a "Calvinist" based on this belief..

Do you even understand what Calvinism is??
Doesn't sound like it . . .

 

[Sword]

Hi Sword,

Your accusation peeked my interest so I did a few minutes worth of research. Instead of accepting my word, and if you have 2 minutes of your life to spare, search "healing mass" and "catholic healing priest". Your accusation, according to my research, falls flat. I also researched BreadOfLifes statements about Catholic practices and can't find any fault in his statement.

I'm not taking sides. Just revealing what MY research shows.

Love......Mary

And have you got the links?
And also can you show me in the post you quoted where I accused anyone of anything?

 

[BreadOfLife]

I asked you for evidence of the CC laying hands on the sick. do you have any?
And if my spelling is your evidance of my frustration. I would say its a sign of yours . Its funny how every time I beat someone in a forum they call out my spelling. If you read my very forst post in the forum you would see the same spelling errors. But you think exposing dislexia id funny and a cool thing to do in public????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Just like Jesus did??????????????????????????????
Is that all you have in a debate????????????????
So once again please show me where I am frustrated and offended? Thats two things your now accusing me off.

Your not alone your the third person on here to pull me on my spelling.

I am not frustrated I am not offended. I am if anything just a little disaapointed at so called christians representing Christ in public in a very poor light. who would be attracted to you because of the direspecfull posts you are making here?

Actually - more than being frustrated and angry - you have been completely dishonest in our conversation.

YOU made the false claim that Catholics don't "lay hands" on the sick. I showed you that not only is this a lie - Laying hands on the sick is one of our 7 Sacraments and is practiced every single day in the Church. My Father had this done several times. I myself have received this sacrament.

Not sure why you need video proof of this.
I've never even heard of somebody videotaping a sick person being prayed over.

The only thing you've beaten here is a dead horse . . .

 

[Sword]

Actually - more than being frustrated and angry - you have been completely dishonest in our conversation.

YOU made the false claim that Catholics don't "lay hands" on the sick. I showed you that not only is this a lie - Laying hands on the sick is one of our 7 Sacraments and is practiced every single day in the Church. My Father had this done several times. I myself have received this sacrament.

Not sure why you need video proof of this.
I've never even heard of somebody videotaping a sick person being prayed over.

The only thing you've beaten here is a dead horse . . .

I see you never said sorry for the ridiculling my spelling Jesus teach you that? I never accuse you or the catholic church I asked if you do it. I asked if you have any proof that you do it. or is it all hidden behined closed doors? If you lay hands on the sick and have seen them healed tell me all about it . why is that so hard for you. do you have any testimoys of you or at least anyone you know laying hands on the sick and seeing them healed yes or no? No difficult to answer i would have thought. But you seem to be really struggling with it???????
If you never heard of anyone vidoeing laying on hands you need to gey out more there are thousands on youtube and most of them are NOT in any tradictional church catholic or protestant. This is why I ask if the catholic even do it? I asked. I never said the dont until you could not provide any proof.

You now called me a liar. Were did I lie to you? Please quote.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I see you never said sorry for the ridiculling my spelling Jesus teach you that? I never accuse you or the catholic church I asked if you do it. I asked if you have any proof that you do it. or is it all hidden behined closed doors? If you lay hands on the sick and have seen them healed tell me all about it . why is that so hard for you. do you have any testimoys of you or at least anyone you know laying hands on the sick and seeing them healed yes or no? No difficult to answer i would have thought. But you seem to be really struggling with it???????
If you never heard of anyone vidoeing laying on hands you need to gey out more there are thousands on youtube and most of them are NOT in any tradictional church catholic or protestant. This is why I ask if the catholic even do it? I asked. I never said the dont until you could not provide any proof.

You now called me a liar. Were did I lie to you? Please quote.

And your dishonesty continues.
Here is YOUR post #171:
"here is one for you why are you and the catholic church as a whole not doing what you are told to do? You are told to lay hands on the sick/ I never heard of any instances of that coming from the catholic church.Why is that? Which now that you want to get into it. are at the highest levals anyway satan worshipers. Just look at the satanic popes guest hall. and then look at there telescope called l.u.c.i.f.e.r."

Not only did you accuse the Church of NOT laying hands and praying over the sick - you followed up that lie with 3 other lies about satanic worship within the Church.

Try being honest for a change and maybe somebody will take you seriously . . .

 

[Sword]

And your dishonesty continues.
Here is YOUR post #171:
"here is one for you why are you and the catholic church as a whole not doing what you are told to do? You are told to lay hands on the sick/ I never heard of any instances of that coming from the catholic church.Why is that? Which now that you want to get into it. are at the highest levals anyway satan worshipers. Just look at the satanic popes guest hall. and then look at there telescope called l.u.c.i.f.e.r."

Not only did you accuse the Church of NOT laying hands and praying over the sick - you followed up that lie with 3 other lies about satanic worship within the Church.

Try being honest for a change and maybe somebody will take you seriously . . .

I am pleased you took my advice and got out of your small world and found a far bigger world on youtube. Thats great so at the very least I introduced you to a whole new world.

I see you are still calling me a liar
They do have a teliscope called lucefer thats a fact.
The did build a hall that looks exactly like a snake thats also a fact.
I also belive that the whole of the vatican is satanic orintated, Not my problen you dont agree with that. maybe you will also have a proper look at it now that you have foumd youtube. Its unavoidable in there. You will see it soon enough if you keep looking.
I asked you to provide evidance and you had not done that until now. You obvioulsy struggled to find any.
Not that s i had a ten second look I see the lies in it already. It did not say call the priests. It said call the elders. Special after death praywers wow. really the only prayer for the dead is to rasie them. Where do they get that speacial prayers for the dead?

So you still never showed me anyone from your church laying hands on the sick. Being the biggest church in the world I would really think some one gas a camcorder somewhere. The protestand church ahs thousands of recored healing on video check you tube again for that . and you will see 100% fact people healed on the streets. thousands of us doing it. Its just like Jesus did as the bible tells us to do. so I will still say have you got anyone from the RC church doing this in public for the neddy you know as we were commanded to do?????????????????????????????

 

[BreadOfLife]

I am pleased you took my advice and got out of your small world and found a far bigger world on youtube. Thats great so at the very least I introduced you to a whole new world.

I see you are still calling me a liar
They do have a teliscope called lucefer thats a fact.
The did build a hall that looks exactly like a snake thats also a fact.
I also belive that the whole of the vatican is satanic orintated, Not my problen you dont agree with that. maybe you will also have a proper look at it now that you have foumd youtube. Its unavoidable in there. You will see it soon enough if you keep looking.
I asked you to provide evidance and you had not done that until now. You obvioulsy struggled to find any.
Not that s i had a ten second look I see the lies in it already. It did not say call the priests. It said call the elders. Special after death praywers wow. really the only prayer for the dead is to rasie them. Where do they get that speacial prayers for the dead?

So you still never showed me anyone from your church laying hands on the sick. Being the biggest church in the world I would really think some one gas a camcorder somewhere. The protestand church ahs thousands of recored healing on video check you tube again for that . and you will see 100% fact people healed on the streets. thousands of us doing it. Its just like Jesus did as the bible tells us to do. so I will still say have you got anyone from the RC church doing this in public for the neddy you know as we were commanded to do?????????????????????????????

Ummmm, WHO is "They"??
I already debunked your "Lucifer" telescope nonsense.
The whole idea that a building in the Vatican looks like a snake is as stupid as saying that the White House looks like a space alien so it MUST be true.

You're posts read like those of a dishonest and paranoid conspiracy nut . . .

 

[Sword]

Ummmm, WHO is "They"??
I already debunked your "Lucifer" telescope nonsense.
The whole idea that a building in the Vatican looks like a snake is as stupid as saying that the White House looks like a space alien so it MUST be true.

You're posts read like those of a dishonest and paranoid conspiracy nut . . .

You have to say its not true. Thats fine I have shown you the video you either never looked or Its Cognitive Dissonance

 

[BreadOfLife]

You have to say its not true. Thats fine I have shown you the video you either never looked or Its Cognitive Dissonance

Time to remove your foil hat and live in reality . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

So you still never showed me anyone from your church laying hands on the sick. Being the biggest church in the world I would really think some one gas a camcorder somewhere. The protestand church ahs thousands of recored healing on video check you tube again for that . and you will see 100% fact people healed on the streets. thousands of us doing it. Its just like Jesus did as the bible tells us to do. so I will still say have you got anyone from the RC church doing this in public for the neddy you know as we were commanded to do?????????????????????????????

And I've seen some of those Protestant "healing" videos.
The Benny Hinns and others of his ilk.

Lights - camera - perversion . . .

 

[Mungo]

So you still never showed me anyone from your church laying hands on the sick. Being the biggest church in the world I would really think some one gas a camcorder somewhere. The protestand church ahs thousands of recored healing on video check you tube again for that . and you will see 100% fact people healed on the streets. thousands of us doing it. Its just like Jesus did as the bible tells us to do. so I will still say have you got anyone from the RC church doing this in public for the neddy you know as we were commanded to do?????????????????????????????

Apart from the Sacrament of the Sick that BOL gave you the video link for, the Catholic Charismatic Renewal (among others) practice the laying on of hands for the healing of the sick (This is not to be confused with the Sacrament). I know of a local Charismatic prayer group that does this. Catholics respect the privacy of people being prayed for and don't post it all over you-tube.

 

[Sword]

Apart from the Sacrament of the Sick that BOL gave you the video link for, the Catholic Charismatic Renewal (among others) practice the laying on of hands for the healing of the sick (This is not to be confused with the Sacrament). I know of a local Charismatic prayer group that does this. Catholics respect the privacy of people being prayed for and don't post it all over you-tube.

So where is God glory in testimonys and the people who actully get healed are delighted to tell. so how would want to hide it? and why?

 

[Marymog]

And have you got the links?
And also can you show me in the post you quoted where I accused anyone of anything?

Dear Sword,

I REPEAT: Instead of accepting my word, and if you have 2 minutes of your life to spare, search "healing mass" and "catholic healing priest".

I would like to add to that: Search for Charismatic Catholic Churches

I apologize (something rare to see on this forum) I should not have used the word accused. I should have said, You have made the assertion that there is no proof of Catholic Church laying hands on the sick and seeing them healed and that you have never heard of the Catholic Church laying hands on the sick and seeing them healed. Your assertion, according to my research, falls flat.

I, Mary, have never seen a million dollars in cash but I'm sure it exist. Just because YOU haven't seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Love, Mary

 

[perrero]

You ask me why I call Calvin a heretic, or why Calvinism is heresy. Simple anything or any theology that divides the Body of Christ, (in this case into two factions, Calvinism and Armenianism) is heretical especially when it does not align with the word of God. Now to get into details about that would require more conversation and since you're not interested, i guess we are done.

 

[Marymog]

You ask me why I call Calvin a heretic, or why Calvinism is heresy. Simple anything that theology that divides the Body of Christ, (in this case into two factions, Calvinism and Armenianism) is heretical especially when it does not align with the word of God. Now to get into details about that would require more conversation and since you're not interested, i guess we are done.

Hi perrero,

I see you agree with the Catholic Church that Calvin was a heretic. Since the Catholic Church does not agree with Calvin and you, does that make you a heretic also?

I suspect the Catholic Church and many other churches would say that YOUR beliefs do "not align with the word of God" and call you a heretic. Who is right? You or them?

How is it possible that the Catholic Church could be right about Calvin but not right about you and your beliefs? Are they only right if you agree with them? Does that not make you your own Pope of your own church?

I asked you MANY other legitimate questions also but you refuse, or can't logically, answer them. Is that why you cherry pick my questions??

Curious Mary!

 

[perrero]

Wrong.
If you believe that God chooses our fate - then YOU are the Calvinist.

Are you trying to read my mind?
I certainly do not believe that God chooses the fate of each individual. This would void free will.

But according to you.

God knows - but He doesn't choose that fate for each person.

Which is an irrational statement. If God the fate of all before they are created, then when He creates them there fate is already determined.

God is outside of time. He sees everything as a "finished painting". This doesn't mean that He makes our choices FOR us.

GOD is outside of time is a puerile thought that does not apply to the JHWH of the Bible. God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (time), He is the same yesterday, today and forever (time), their was not one "outside of time" day of creation, there were 6 days consecutive days of creation each separate involving God's separate handywork (time), God says that He makes plans or has plans for us which require time to formulate. There was a time when God was all alone, then a time when He brought in creation and there will be a time when He renew all things. God lives an eternal endless succession of time which permits Him to be elated at what He does (and HE saw that it was good GEN. 1:4, 10, 12, 18,21,25, and very good 31) 6 distinctive days of creation (time) and grieved at what He did Gen. 6:6 You can't be elated and grieved at the same time. Even a painting takes time to finish.
Your God has the attributes of the Greek God Zeus not YHWH, just like Calvin.