Why water into wine?

[GodsGrace]

so you say, but here we have this most shining of Examples telling mom "what does that have to do with me, woman?" Seems incongruous to me. This is a dialectic argument imo, as of course "It" has everything to do with Him lol. But first one has to see that Jesus did not come into the world to perform miracles at actual weddings or to make alcoholic wine

News Flash:

Salvation wasn't his first priority either.
Not according to what HE preached...

What WAS His first priority?
Maybe "first priority" isn't the right terminology.
Sorry.

 

[GodsGrace]

ok, re granpa, he even posts here sometimes, sorry i have problems at Fandom, trying to find anything there, a google search isn't helping.

and i guess "distillation" is a better characterization than "fermentation," not having much luck in search because i want the spiritual implications, don't care about making alcohol here, but Aqua vitae - Wikipedia is a start--edit; a poor start, a stub, but points out "distilled spirits from wine" at least, and i'll find granpa sooner or later

Fermentation is correct.
Wine ferments.
Who's Grandpa and is he going to be nice and agree with me?
What's Fandom?

Are you trying to link water and wine?

Jesus is the water which, if you drink it, you never thirst again.
Wine: This is my blood - of the New and Everlasting Covenant.

Drink His water not to thirst.
Drink His wine to belong to the N.C. (and have everlasting life)

 

[mjrhealth]

How about drinking some water at a good Church?
Where real theologians have kind of figured things out.

This is teh only water worth drinking, you cant get it from any church

Joh_4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
Joh_4:11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?
Joh_7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

 

[perrero]

And you're just playing stupid semantic games when you dismiss the fact that "Pray" have several meanings - the primary of which simply means "To ASK."
Words matter - especially when there is more than one definition.

Do YOU only pray behind closed doors?? Do you not pray in church?? Do YOU only pray to the Father and NOT Jesus??
Your hypocrisy is appalling . . .

This is not about where we pray, because Jesus' statement is a general statement. "When you pray..." So the place of prayer can be anywhere, just don't do it on the corner of the street to be seen like Pharisees. But the only Person who is worthy of our prayers is, according to Jesus, is the Father. That because the Godhead knew about the depth of the depravity of sin which would draw people into praying and worshiping every stick of wood, every golden calf, every statue and picture of every saint and madonna, every amulet, every angel, which is why the C church ignores the 2nd commandment so that the devil can get people away from praying to the father and therefore pray to everything else but Him.
Yes! part of praying is ASKING. Such as:
Mat. 18:19 "Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ASK, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven."
Luke 11:13 "If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ASK him?
Look at the prodigal son. When he came back, he came asking forgiveness of the FATHER.
If you want to pray to Mary and every other saint and angel, go right ahead. Your prayers will not go beyond the ceiling as they are idolatrous.

Do I only pray to the Father? Yes. Does that make me a hypocrite? then so be it at least I'm not an idolater.

 

[GodsGrace]

YES, BoL has a list of things that need to be done so that one can be saved.
I told him that ll it required was Repent and believe.
He disagreed so I gave the example of the thief on the cross. This obviously took him for a loop and he therefore called it an exception.
He is like that when the Word doesn't agree with his theology he differs to an exception, an anthropomorphism or the ECFs.
You'll notice that all through this thread.

We don't need to do any "works" to be saved.
God does that all by Himself.

But I do know the difference between Justification and Sanctification and I'm Learning that some don't like the Sanctification part.

Are you going to be one of those? You seem so nice.
It is NOT a specific list of things to do.
However, Jesus did leave us with many teachings and commandments that He means for us to follow.

If this is called works, or good deeds, I don't know, but Jesus did say to do them.
There's plenty of scripture in the gospels of Jesus Himself saying a lot to this.

 

[GodsGrace]

This would a great one if you believe in Post-Millennialism, however if believe in Pre-Millennialism it is wrong. The C church is Post, the majority of Protestants are Pre.
Definition of Pre, Post, and A.
Pre-Millennialism, Post-Millennialism or Amillennialism?

I see you posted links.

I don't know anything about eschatology and I'm proud of it!
It's too much for me. I'm having enough problems worrying about today.
Jesus said to take no care for Tomorrow.

The Catholic Church is post. That means Jesus is coming back at the end.
Pre means Jesus is coming to take us away and we'll miss the tribulation.

The Catholic Church does not believe in the rapture.
When asked what it mean that one was taken and one remained, the asnwer is that one was saved and one was not.

I've learned to stop arguing about stuff that has nothing to do with salvation.

I know that Jesus is coming back one time.
Would it be at the end? I think so.

 

[perrero]

The Woman can also represent the Church. This is a polyvalent symbol (sorry for the big word).
In the verse that preceds this (Rev. 11:19), we see that this "Woman" is the Ark in Heaven.

Who else carried the New Covenant within them??
Israel?? No - they rejected Him. Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant:

Time for a Bible lesson...
The 7 years of tribulation are the same 7 years mentioned in Daniel's prophecy of the 70 weeks (weeks of years). 70 weeks x 7 years = 490 yrs. the prophecy details 62 wks _7 wks + 1 wk = 70, 69 of those weeks have been fulfilled, there remains that one week of 7 yrs. where God deal with his people Israel with whom He has an everlasting covenant. The woman is Israel that brought forth the Messiah in His time who the Dragon wants to kill. This all I am going to say about this. This is a total different debate, of Eschatology (sorry for the big word) and I certainly do not want to get into this Pre/Post millennial argument.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

It's nice to hear what Daniel says
Now prove what he says has anything to do with the New Testament

 

[GodsGrace]

And Jews are not Christians....

Some Jews are Christian.
Jew refers to both a religion and a nationality.

Also, have you never heard of Messianic Jews?

 

[GodsGrace]

I read a lot of the time, as well.........Kids are grown and I'm on my own........Recently moved from country to inner suburb........So I have plenty of time

You use it wisely !!
Blessings.

(please notice how it's talking about teaches and persons who witness)

 

[perrero]

Remember - Jesus IS the Word (John 1:1) - and when you edit the Word - you are attempting to edit HIM . . ..

Oh! This is priceless coming from you, since the Catholic church edits the 2nd Commandment by omitting verses 4 & 5 of Exodus 20 and verses 8 &9 of Deu. 5.
Funny how that works. If you set rules for others you better stick by them yourself.

 

[GodsGrace]

It's nice to hear what Daniel says
Now prove what he says has anything to do with the New Testament

Everyone talks about Daniel when discussing the end of the world.
I skipped Daniel and Revelation.
There's bad news coming,
but I don't want to know.

 

[GodsGrace]

Oh! This is priceless coming from you, since the Catholic church edits the 2nd Commandment by omitting verses 4 & 5 of Exodus 20 and verses 8 &9 of Deu. 5.
Funny how that works. If you set rules for others you better stick by them yourself.

Could you please explain HOW it's edited?
Thanks.

 

[perrero]

The Blood of Christ is what allows us to be cleansed - because we certainly don't deserve it.
This is why the Protestant author C.S. Lewis once quipped, "The mercy of God DEMANDS Purgatory."

This isn't something that is "added" to God's plan for salvation - it is an essential part of it - the FINAL part.

Rev. 21:27 says that nothing unclean or impure can enter Heaven.
How many perfectly pure people do YOU know??

There is absolutely no support in scripture for a purgatory that purifies unto salvation. I don't care how you want to twist everything else.

John 3:18 “Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.”

John 5:24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.”

Romans 4:6-8 “David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the one whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”

Romans 8:33-34 “Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.”

2 Corinthians 5:21 “For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.”

Romans 4:5 “And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness.”

 

[perrero]

No - Baptism.

Jesus and the Apostles state that Baptism is necessary (John 3:5, Mark 6:16).
Most Protestants reject this idea. The Thief was an exception to the rule because he didn't have a chance to be baptized when he came to Christ. He was a little "busy" at the time . . .

The same is true for those who desire to be baptized and didn't have the chance.
Martyrs, last minute conversions, etc.

So many exceptions, you wonder if their are more exceptions than people baptized.
A person gets saved, repents of his sin, follows Jesus daily walking in holiness but never did get baptized. So unfortunate but you're going to hell buddy!
What a wonderful God we have. You asked for forgiveness of sin, which is the most grievous thing against God, you recognized that only Jesus can save, you follow through by living in obedience to the Father but yet you were not baptized. Baarrmmpp! three strikes you're out. Better luck next time!

 

[perrero]

Thank you.

It's irresponsible to allow these perverted and nonsensical accusations to simply "pass".
there are too many people who visit forums like this who are seduced by the lies and never get a chance to hear the other side.

My mission here is not to make enemies - but to simply expose the lies.
I haven't created a single thread on this forum and never will. I'm not here to "put down" Protestants or anybody else.
I'm solely on a "seek and destroy" the lies mission

Hard to destroy lies when you are full of them yourself. Thus my mission to show how the C church is a cult binding people to hell.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hard to destroy lies when you are full of them yourself. Thus my mission to show how the C church is a cult binding people to hell.

I'm not Catholic, but...

1. How is a Church that teaches that Jesus is God and that He died for our sins, a cult?
Isn't a cult when you follow A PERSON?

2. How is the C C binding people to hell?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Everyone talks about Daniel when discussing the end of the world.
I skipped Daniel and Revelation.
There's bad news coming,
but I don't want to know.

People use Daniel and they have no idea what they are saying
That's why I don't have an answer

 

[GodsGrace]

People use Daniel and they have no idea what they are saying
That's why I don't have an answer

Wow.
Somebody who knows they don't have all the answers.

An intelligent person is someone who knows what they know
and how much they don't know...

 

[bbyrd009]

@granpa