Will there be or is there a need for a future Messianic temple age?

[Marty fox]

That's just wishful thinking, outside the Scriptures. God's Word is the Measure, not what we may want to believe.

The orthodox Jews are still expecting the coming of Messiah. God is going to send them one, but not the real Messiah. They deny His Son, so they will get another and worship him in falseness. This must happen before the end of this present world. The Zechariah prophecy foretells that Messiah will build the temple, so there will be another Jewish temple built just for that coming false Messiah.

In 1 Corinthians 15:23-28, Apostle Paul pulling from Psalms 2 about Christ's future reign over all nations, it is shown that Jesus must reign... until all His enemies are put under His footstool. At present, and all the way to the end of this present world, that reign by Christ over all His enemies is NOT going to happen, so it is foolishness to think that could be happening now, or at any time during this present world.

So it's very simple. If the True Christ is not returned to earth yet to reign with His elect over all nations with the "rod of iron", then the fake Christ is still yet to come, for Jesus Christ will only return to defeat the existing fake Christ on earth at the end of this present world.

Actually it also says that Jesus will sit at the right hand of the Father until He makes His enemies His foot stool.

Psalm 110 Of David.
A psalm.

1 The Lord says to my lord:

“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”

Thus Jesus reigning isn’t on the earth it’s at the right hand of the Father which is were He is now

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

No not at all we need to ask who is true Israel as in all Israel.

Romans 9:6
It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

Romans 11:26
26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.

There is a reason Jacob was separated Zion in the verse above

26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written

“The deliverer will come from Zion(national Israel)
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob (true Israel the church made up faithful before and after the cross)

Branches were broken off so that we could be grafted in ...
And in due time, a remnant of Jews (true blood line descendants of the twelve tribes as reiterated in Rev. 7 & 14) will be grafted back into the VINE.

 

[Marty fox]

Branches were broken off so that we could be grafted in ...
And in due time, a remnant of Jews (true blood line descendants of the twelve tribes as reiterated in Rev. 7 & 14) will be grafted back into the VINE.

But Jews have been getting granted in for 2000 years

 

[Marty fox]

What does they were blinded for our sake mean to you?

So do you believe in the verses below?

1 Timothy 2:3-4
3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

But Jews have been getting granted in for 2000 years

True, at a snails rate. There are 2.65 billion Christians, 1/3 of the population. In Israel, maybe 2% are former Jews and then many of them want to hold onto Jadaism, like Judaisers, acceptimg CHRIST but blending both religions, calling themselves Messianic Jews or Jews for Jesus. Orthodox Jews consider them apostates.
There are major deterants, obstacles for them.
Families and friends ostricize them.
When this Rom. 11 time comes, you will see millions of Jews come to Christ, likely 1/3 of there population which is 15 million. God lifts the veil, converts and overcomes obstacles. The two witnesses will have a great effect on them.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Is it or is there a or is symbolic?

Well the only symbolic temples we see in SCripture is the body of a believer and Jesus and the Father being the temple in eternity. but as for a Messianic millenial temple there are numerous verses to show it will be a literal verse with literal sacrifices taking place.

I have to leave for an appt. soon. But post me another response and remind me and I will gladly list you many of the verses that speak of the millenial temple.

 

[Marty fox]

Well the only symbolic temples we see in SCripture is the body of a believer and Jesus and the Father being the temple in eternity. but as for a Messianic millenial temple there are numerous verses to show it will be a literal verse with literal sacrifices taking place.

I have to leave for an appt. soon. But post me another response and remind me and I will gladly list you many of the verses that speak of the millenial temple.

Thanks for your reply but I know the scriptures that you mean. I see the temple as symbolic for the church the new Jerusalem. You see the bible can’t contradict it’s self so an interpretation which contradicts scripture like a future temple with animal sacrifices is the wrong interpretation. This below is a rule that I go by

The whole of scripture is greater than the sum of its individual passages. You can not comprehend the bible as a whole without comprehending its individual passages and you cannot comprehend its individual passages without comprehending the bible as a whole. The individual passages can never be interpreted in a way as to conflict the whole of scripture

The above method is the best way to interpret scripture especially prophecy

 

[Marty fox]

True, at a snails rate. There are 2.65 billion Christians, 1/3 of the population. In Israel, maybe 2% are former Jews and then many of them want to hold onto Jadaism, like Judaisers, acceptimg CHRIST but blending both religions, calling themselves Messianic Jews or Jews for Jesus. Orthodox Jews consider them apostates.
There are major deterants, obstacles for them.
Families and friends ostricize them.
When this Rom. 11 time comes, you will see millions of Jews come to Christ, likely 1/3 of there population which is 15 million. God lifts the veil, converts and overcomes obstacles. The two witnesses will have a great effect on them.

But Jesus said that the Jews have all that they need and will get to turn to Him already


Luke 16:19-31
The Rich Man and Lazarus
19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Not only did Jesus predict His death and resurrection He also predicted His rejection by Israel.

All they need and will get is the law and the prophets which all pointed to Him they are the two witnesses.

 

[Keraz]

The above method is the best way to interpret scripture especially prophecy

As a New Temple is plainly prophesied, your 'best way' seems to be to ignore those scriptures that prove it.

But Jesus said that the Jews have all that they need and will get to turn to Him already

The idea that the Jews will finally all become Christian is not in the Bible. It is promoted because a Jewish punishment and then redemption, is a vital part of the 'rapture doctrine'. Neither the rapture to heaven of the Church, or a general Jewish redemption is Biblical and neither will happen.
God has quite a different Plan and it will be all as the Prophets tell us. Christians and Jewish believers will come together and go to the holy Land. Jeremiah 50:4-5

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Not only did Jesus predict His death and resurrection He also predicted His rejection by Israel.

God hardened their hearts until the fullness if the gentiles have been reached - once again , Romans 11
You use the story of the Rich man and Lazarus to represent Israel as a whole? Absurd, that was one specific man and yes there are plenty like that but many will be enlightened and saved during the GT.
I feel that some Christians are antiSemitic. Watch out, curse them and you will be cursed!
There seems to be a hatred for Jews in this forum. It's the same people who adhere to Replacemwnt theology - a very unhealthy, dark view. >>>>ROMANS 11<<<<

 

[Marty fox]

As a New Temple is plainly prophesied, your 'best way' seems to be to ignore those scriptures that prove it.

The idea that the Jews will finally all become Christian is not in the Bible. It is promoted because a Jewish punishment and then redemption, is a vital part of the 'rapture doctrine'. Neither the rapture to heaven of the Church, or a general Jewish redemption is Biblical and neither will happen.
God has quite a different Plan and it will be all as the Prophets tell us. Christians and Jewish believers will come together and go to the holy Land. Jeremiah 50:4-5

Actually it proves it because a future temple sin sacrifice is rejecting what Jesus did

 

[Marty fox]

God hardened their hearts until the fullness if the gentiles have been reached - once again , Romans 11
You use the story of the Rich man and Lazarus to represent Israel as a whole? Absurd, that was one specific man and yes there are plenty like that but many will be enlightened and saved during the GT.
I feel that some Christians are antiSemitic. Watch out, curse them and you will be cursed!
There seems to be a hatred for Jews in this forum. It's the same people who adhere to Replacemwnt theology - a very unhealthy, dark view. >>>>ROMANS 11<<<<

You have me wrong there brother I am in no way anti Semitic the person who taught me a great deal about the bible is a converted Jew. I love the Jews and I am just pointing out history and what Paul stated “not all Israel is Israel”. That tells us that the church is one made up of both Jew and gentile and God has no favourites


John 10:16
I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

You still haven’t answered my question which I have asked you a few times do you believe in the verses below?

1 Timothy 2:3-4
3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth

If you answer yes which I believe that it is then you have to re access your view. God doesn’t want anyone to perish when hearts are hardened it’s God allowing them to walk away He doesn’t try to draw them to Him with the Holy Spirit anymore He honours their choice

2 Corinthians 5:15
And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Thanks for your reply but I know the scriptures that you mean. I see the temple as symbolic for the church the new Jerusalem. You see the bible can’t contradict it’s self so an interpretation which contradicts scripture like a future temple with animal sacrifices is the wrong interpretation. This below is a rule that I go by

The whole of scripture is greater than the sum of its individual passages. You can not comprehend the bible as a whole without comprehending its individual passages and you cannot comprehend its individual passages without comprehending the bible as a whole. The individual passages can never be interpreted in a way as to conflict the whole of scripture

The above method is the best way to interpret scripture especially prophecy

Well the New Jerusalem is for eternity! Now you have the church being symbolic walls, streets and gates in eternity. The Messianic temple is for the millenial kingdom not eternity!

Your methodology of hermeneutics is an impossible tautology! According to you - one cannot understand the passages they read unless they understand the bible as a whole and one cannot understand the bible as a whole unless they understand the individual passages which they cannot know until they know the bible as a whole and so on and son and so on

The best way of understanding SCripture is called the "Golden Rule of Interpretation".

“When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.”

This rule keeps people from allegorically reinterpreting Scripture when they see words like water and fire and the like which are used metaphorically and symbolically.

Also another two rules I use which are key.

" We can deduce many APPLICATIONS" from Scripture, but there is only one interpretation.

Also- All Scripture is equally inspired, but is not equally applicable.

 

[Keraz]

Actually it proves it because a future temple sin sacrifice is rejecting what Jesus did

ANIMAL SACRIFICES:
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." Matthew 5:18.

There are several passages in the Old Testament that clearly indicate animal sacrifice will be re-instituted by the new citizens of all the holy Land. Isaiah 56:1-8, Ezekiel 20:40-41

The passage that is the most extensive, giving the greatest detail, is Ezekiel 43:18 and 46:24.

It should be noted that this is part of a greater passage dealing with the period after the Lords faithful people go to live in all of the holy Land, soon after the Land is cleared and cleansed; before Jesus Returns.

A prophecy that plainly states how those people will build the Temple, a new Temple that will surpass all other temples previously built, even Herod’s temple that was quite large, which existed during the earthly ministry of Christ. Haggai 2:6-9

The Shekinah Glory of God will come into it. Ezekiel 43:1-4

After giving details concerning the size, 1 Kings 6:1-3, and appearance of the Temple and the Altar, the Lord then begins to give detailed instruction as to the animal sacrifices that will be offered. Ezekiel 43:18-27

In chapter 44, the Lord gives instructions as to who will be offering sacrifices to the Lord. The Lord states that all of the Levites will not be offering blood and fat to the Lord due to previous sin; it will be those from the lineage of Zadok, (verse 15). Isaiah 66:21, Revelation 5:10

Chapters 45 and 46 continue to mention that animal sacrifices will be made.

The primary objection made to the idea of animal sacrifices returning is that Christ has come and offered a perfect sacrifice for sin, and there is therefore no need to sacrifice animals for sin. However, it must be remembered that animal sacrifice never removed the sin that spiritually separates a person from the Lord.
Hebrews 10:1-4 says, “For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never by the same sacrifices year by year, which they offer continually, make perfect those who draw near. Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins? But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year. For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins".

It is incorrect to think that animal sacrifices took away sins in the Old Testament, and it is incorrect to think they will do so again. Animal sacrifices served as object lessons for the sinner, that sin was and is a horrible offense against God, and that the result of sin is death.

Romans 3:20 says, “Because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.”

Most scholars agree that the purpose of animal sacrifice is memorial in nature. As the Lord’s Supper is a reminder of the death of Christ to the Church today, animal sacrifices will be a reminder until Jesus Returns. To those born during that time, animal sacrifices will again be an object lesson. During that future time, righteousness and holiness will prevail, but those with earthly bodies will still have a sin nature, and there will be a need to teach about how offensive sin is to a holy and righteous God.

Animal sacrifices will serve that purpose, "but in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year". Hebrews 10:3

 

[Marty fox]

ANIMAL SACRIFICES:
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." Matthew 5:18.

There are several passages in the Old Testament that clearly indicate animal sacrifice will be re-instituted by the new citizens of all the holy Land. Isaiah 56:1-8, Ezekiel 20:40-41

The passage that is the most extensive, giving the greatest detail, is Ezekiel 43:18 and 46:24.

It should be noted that this is part of a greater passage dealing with the period after the Lords faithful people go to live in all of the holy Land, soon after the Land is cleared and cleansed; before Jesus Returns.

A prophecy that plainly states how those people will build the Temple, a new Temple that will surpass all other temples previously built, even Herod’s temple that was quite large, which existed during the earthly ministry of Christ. Haggai 2:6-9

The Shekinah Glory of God will come into it. Ezekiel 43:1-4

After giving details concerning the size, 1 Kings 6:1-3, and appearance of the Temple and the Altar, the Lord then begins to give detailed instruction as to the animal sacrifices that will be offered. Ezekiel 43:18-27

In chapter 44, the Lord gives instructions as to who will be offering sacrifices to the Lord. The Lord states that all of the Levites will not be offering blood and fat to the Lord due to previous sin; it will be those from the lineage of Zadok, (verse 15). Isaiah 66:21, Revelation 5:10

Chapters 45 and 46 continue to mention that animal sacrifices will be made.

The primary objection made to the idea of animal sacrifices returning is that Christ has come and offered a perfect sacrifice for sin, and there is therefore no need to sacrifice animals for sin. However, it must be remembered that animal sacrifice never removed the sin that spiritually separates a person from the Lord.
Hebrews 10:1-4 says, “For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never by the same sacrifices year by year, which they offer continually, make perfect those who draw near. Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins? But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year. For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins".

It is incorrect to think that animal sacrifices took away sins in the Old Testament, and it is incorrect to think they will do so again. Animal sacrifices served as object lessons for the sinner, that sin was and is a horrible offense against God, and that the result of sin is death.

Romans 3:20 says, “Because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.”

Most scholars agree that the purpose of animal sacrifice is memorial in nature. As the Lord’s Supper is a reminder of the death of Christ to the Church today, animal sacrifices will be a reminder until Jesus Returns. To those born during that time, animal sacrifices will again be an object lesson. During that future time, righteousness and holiness will prevail, but those with earthly bodies will still have a sin nature, and there will be a need to teach about how offensive sin is to a holy and righteous God.

Animal sacrifices will serve that purpose, "but in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year". Hebrews 10:3

Why do you think God stopped them and allowed the Romans to destroy the temple?

Why would God revert back to something useless after what Jesus did?

What is the purpose?

These are questions that need to be asked


Hebrews 10:18, NIV: "And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary."

Hebrews 10:11
Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.

 

[Keraz]

Why do you think God stopped them and allowed the Romans to destroy the temple?

Why would God revert back to something useless after what Jesus did?

What is the purpose?

These are questions that need to be asked


Hebrews 10:18, NIV: "And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary."

Hebrews 10:11
Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.

I can't answer them. Only God knows, He wanted sacrifices before and He will do so again. His ways are not our ways.

All I do is point out where the Bible says there will be a new Temple and offerings will again be made in it. That is scriptural and denial of what the Bible plainly says isn't a good thing to do.

 

[Marty fox]

I can't answer them. Only God knows, He wanted sacrifices before and He will do so again. His ways are not our ways.

All I do is point out where the Bible says there will be a new Temple and offerings will again be made in it. That is scriptural and denial of what the Bible plainly says isn't a good thing to do.

Or it’s symbolic

Sacrifices were only to point to Jesus now that He’s completed the sacrifice they won’t be needed this tells us there’s a different interpretation. We have to Let the scriptures interpret the scriptures

 

[Davy]

But Jesus says that He rulers now

Revelation 3:14
14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:

These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation

Rev 3:14
14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
KJV

The translation you're using is kind of misleading you. The Greek is pointing to The Chief of God's creation. If you recall, the Book of Hebrews tells us that all things were created through Jesus Christ. It doesn't mean Lord Jesus is reigning in His Kingdom today, especially since He made it plain that His Kingdom is NOT of this world...

John 18:36
36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if My kingdom were of this world, then would My servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is My kingdom not from hence.
KJV

 

[Davy]

That already happened when the Jews rejected their Messiah and chose Rome instead when they yelled crucify Him and then said we have no king but Cesar and we all know how that turned out. Then Rome was eventually judged by God

You mean those you listen to didn't show you Christ's Olivet discourse of Matthew 24 and Mark 13? That's where Lord Jesus warned about the coming of the final Antichrist working great signs and wonders that if it were possible, would deceive even His very elect.

Even Apostle Paul made it clear in 2 Thessalonians 2 that the "man of sin" working great signs and lying wonders sitting in another temple in Jerusalem must first come before Lord Jesus will return to defeat him.

If you heed those doctrines of men that try to place the Bible prophecies meant for the very end of this world about the coming pseudo-Christ, then you may be in danger if you're living when that false one shows up and the whole world believes he is God like he is to proclaim, according to Apostle Paul.

 

[Davy]

Actually it also says that Jesus will sit at the right hand of the Father until He makes His enemies His foot stool.

Psalm 110 Of David.
A psalm.

1 The Lord says to my lord:

“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”

Thus Jesus reigning isn’t on the earth it’s at the right hand of the Father which is were He is now

Notice the following timing when Christ's Apostles sit upon the 12 thrones Jesus promised them...

Matt 19:28
28 And Jesus said unto them, "Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
KJV

If Lord Jesus were sitting upon His throne of inheritance already today, then His 12 Apostles should also be sitting upon those 12 thrones on earth, over the 12 tribes of Israel.

So no, Lord Jesus is not sitting upon His throne of inheritance today, which the throne He is to inherit is David's throne, an earthly throne. Jesus is sitting at the right hand of The Father's throne today, expecting, till all His enemies are made His footstool, which is about His future Millennial reign of Rev.20 and Zechariah 14.