Will there be or is there a need for a future Messianic temple age?

[Marty fox]

I see that you're struggling with a cogent response and I find that is usually God's grace manifested in revealing internal conflict with the 2nd enemy, the flesh. The resurrection has always been the hope of the saints, but always to be in God's presence. One of the oldest books in scripture is the book of Job. He had hope in the resurrection and says so. The entire sect of the pharisees shared that same hope, but only a few recognized Jesus as the Christ because they were confident in their works and He didn't match up to their carnal expectations. In being born again we are made alive spiritually and we could never exceed the righteousness of the pharisees except by receiving the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. His righteousness imputed to us is the righteousness of God imputed to us. You don't get any righteousness greater than that of God. His Spirit does many things for us, but one very significant thing is that He is God's seal upon us and within us, a proof of our relationship as the Spirit of adoption, and the guarantor of our future redemption, the redemption of our bodies in the resurrection. I know that the spiritual birth, the new birth is "more important" to our salvation, but a new birth is a new creation, not a resurrection. This may sound a bit weird and Cultic, but before Christ appeared the worldly shadow of heavenly things, the objects of the tabernacle and temple as displayed by the law for example, proceeded the spiritual reality in Christ. After Christ's appearing the spiritual reality leads the worldly shadows. Eg: the kingdom of God is here in believers by His Spirit, but that physical or worldly reality hasn't come in its fullness. Our new life is accomplished in the spiritual sense, but our resurrection is still before us. We have everything in heaven even if we have nothing stored up here. We are inheritors without having ever seen the inheritance.
God in the person of Jesus Christ is at the center of history, the "sun of righteousness " shines in both directions into the past and into the future, from eternity to eternity. There's just no getting around that reality.

I agree with this but it doesn’t dispute our spiritual resurrection Paul clearly claims it. We are spiritually renewed but our body is still dying

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

But the new Temple WILL be God's Temple. Paul says so; 2 Thessalonians 2:4....the Adversary enthrones himself in God's Temple, claiming to be God.
Also, Ezekiel 43:1-4 proves it. A Temple will be built by the holy people of God, His faithful Christians, as they all live in the holy Land. Haggai 2:7-9

The Ezekiel prophecy is of the Millennial Kingdom Temple, the outer area dimensions cover a square mile. Its huge. JESUS WILL DWELL in this Temple. This is not a Temple that exists prior to the Great Tribulation. A healing river passes through it - almost sounds like the New Jerusalem, where the trees produce fruit every month.
As I read through Ezekiel 40-48, the Old Covenant sacrificial system is prophesied. However, Jesus will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel. He has already made this New Covenant, but Israel is still blind to it. In accordance to Romans 11 and Hebrews 8, He will remove their blindness. Therefore the Sacrificial system is abolished and to them will be as well.
The Temple will be the House of the Lord with a New Covenant in place, not what is written in those Ezekiel chapters.
"For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”
In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away." HEB.8:7-13

NO MORE SACRIFICIAL SYSTEM. HE WILL FORGIVE AND FORGET THEIR SINS. >>> IMHO <<<

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

God didn’t make them stop believing and they can still choose to believe as many Jews did back in those days.

Really?
"Just as it is written:
“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.” Rom. 11:8

 

[Addy]

@Ronald David Bruno I want to go to YOUR church.... and I haven't said that to ANYONE here yet... So... .you get the prize... LOL

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

@Ronald David Bruno I want to go to YOUR church.... and I haven't said that to ANYONE here yet... So... .you get the prize... LOL

I used to live in Torrance , Ca. and attended Hope Chapel. Hermosa Beach for a dozen years or so. You can access Zac Nazarian's sermons. He has been there for 35 years. His teaching is excellent, filled with the Spirit and gifted. The funny thing is, he never taught about eschatology, a topic I've always been drawn to. He was wise, knowing the numerous views, did not want to commit to any views, though he leaned towards Post-trib. He said, "It will all pan out in the end" - with a smile.

 

[Marty fox]

Really?
"Just as it is written:
“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.” Rom. 11:8

Do you believe in the verses below?

1 Timothy 2:3-4
3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth

We need to let the scriptures interpret the scriptures as the bible can’t contradict itself. The word stupor meant slumber thus it is still their choice before God gave it to them.

 

[Keraz]

The Ezekiel prophecy is of the Millennial Kingdom Temple, the outer area dimensions cover a square mile. Its huge.

Impossible!
You say you have read Ezekiel 40_48. Why then does the leader of the people make sacrifices and has children? Ezekiel 45:13-25
Jesus is not yet Returned in those prophesies.

The new Temple, built by Christians from far away; Zechariah 6:15, will be the size as given in Ezra 6:3 and we will make offerings in it. Isaiah 56:1-8, Ezekiel 20:40-41

Re the new Covenant; it will be made when all of the Lord's faithful Christian peoples are living in all of the holy Land. John sees them there; AFTER the Sixth Seal world changer. Revelation 7:9

@Ronald David Bruno I want to go to YOUR church.... and I haven't said that to ANYONE here yet... So... .you get the prize... LOL

Shifting your location to gain the truth, isn't sensible. Getting a good modern Bible and intensively studying it; is.

 

[Timtofly]

But Paul says that we reign now

Romans 5:17
For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

We seem to argue and throw out apologetics of differing opinions rather than reign.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Do you believe in the verses below?

1 Timothy 2:3-4
3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth

We need to let the scriptures interpret the scriptures as the bible can’t contradict itself. The word stupor meant slumber thus it is still their choice before God gave it to them.

What does they were blinded for our sake mean to you?

 

[Marty fox]

What does they were blinded for our sake mean to you?

That after their rejection of their Messiah God turned away from them

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The new Temple, built by Christians from far away; Zechariah 6:15, will be the size as given in Ezra 6:3 and we will make offerings in it. Isaiah 56:1-8, Ezekiel 20:40-41

We have a New Covenant, the Old was abolished. Making sacrifices would be a dishonor to Christ.
How many rituals, ceremonies and beliefs have changed.
Is Leviticus or Deuteronomy applicable to Christians? Not to me.
Do I perdorm5 any of ceremonies, sacrifices? Not now.
Some scholars explained it as being a memorial similar to our Communion..I would rather continue with Communion.
Another scholar.said that the sacrifices never removed sin then, they just purified their flesh, their behavior. Christ's sacrifice purified our spirit. But even that, we have the Holy Spirit to sanctify us.
Christ has abolished that old sacrificial system and will nullify any prophesy that suggests different - IMHO.

 

[Keraz]

Making sacrifices would be a dishonor to Christ.

Do you know the Mind of God?
Many prophesies tell us He will again require offerings and sacrifices in a new Temple. Isaiah 56:1-8, Ezekiel 20:40-41
It is true that we must not do that in this present dispensation, but that will change BEFORE Jesus Returns.
Proved by Daniel 9:27, where the Anti-Christ will put a stop to the Temple ordinances. They must have re-commenced in order for him to stop them.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Do you know the Mind of God?
Many prophesies tell us He will again require offerings and sacrifices in a new Temple. Isaiah 56:1-8, Ezekiel 20:40-41
It is true that we must not do that in this present dispensation, but that will change BEFORE Jesus Returns.
Proved by Daniel 9:27, where the Anti-Christ will put a stop to the Temple ordinances. They must have re-commenced in order for him to stop them.

Is. 56:1-8. "Keeping the Sabbaths" ... "My Covenant" ? The Old Covenant
Ezek. 20;40-41 "offerings" ... "sacrifice" ?
Old Covenant again.
We give good will offerings and the only sacrifices we give are our lives as living sacrifices and the sacrifice or praise.
Dan. 9:27. I believe is historical. I do not adhere to the 70 weeks as having a gap for 2000 years. It was a prophecy of His First Coming.

I know God - in part. Some things are clear and some are blurry.

Try to imagine that God gave the prophets messages that gave hope, something to look forward to, promises that were part of their Covenant. He will fulfill His Covenant with them but change elements within, abolish all rituals and sacrifices that Christ fulfilled already. They also brought bad news too. But as for the Covenant, with visions of a future Temple, they needed to believe that rituals, feasts, ceremonies would continue as they were, so God gave them that message that they would and when they finally arrive at that place, they will be pleasantly surprised, a light will go on and they will know Christ.
The earthly Temple represented a heavenly Temple. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit.
Wouldn't you expect the inhabitants of the Millennial Kingdom to possess the Holy Spirit? Or maybe you are Amillennial, in which case our conversion will shortly come to an end.

Their Covenant needed to be cohesive as if to continue "forever". Actually the words "forever", "everlasting" and in various places "eternal" (aionios), also mean ages, lifetimes, generations, epochs, when applied to our temporal physical realm. So God changed the Old Covenant given to them for ages and then gave EVERYONE A NEW COVENANT! WE KNOW IT, THEY DON'T ACCEPT IT YET.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

That after their rejection of their Messiah God turned away from them

Then I guess you deleted Romans 11 out of your Bible.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Will there be or is there a need for a future Messianic temple age?

What is the Jewish belief in Moshiach or the messiah?

One of the principles of Jewish faith enumerated by Maimonides is that one day there will arise a dynamic Jewish leader, a direct descendant of the Davidic dynasty, who will rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem, and gather Jews from all over the world and bring them back to the Land of Israel.

All the nations of the world will recognize Moshiach to be a world leader, and will accept his dominion. In the messianic era there will be world peace, no more wars nor famine, and, in general, a high standard of living.

All mankind will worship one God, and live a more spiritual and moral way of life. The Jewish nation will be preoccupied with learning Torah and fathoming its secrets.

The coming of Moshiach will complete God’s purpose in creation: for man to make an abode for God in the lower worlds—that is, to reveal the inherent spirituality in the material world.

Christians already know that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah but why was He rejected? .

There are two reasons why the Jews didn’t accept Jesus as the messiah one being that they expected the messiah to deliver them from human bondage and rule of Rome and set up a physical messianic temple kingdom in Jerusalem but what exactly is the messianic temple age or kingdom?

In Abrahamic religions , the Messianic Age is the future period of time on Earth in which the messiah will reign and bring universal peace and brotherhood
, without any evil . Many believe that there will be such an age; some refer to it as the consummate " kingdom of God " or the " world to come ".

The other reason the Jews rejected Jesus is because He claimed to be God. The Jews don’t believe that the messiah is God thus they didn't realize that the messiah and God are one. The Jews are not looking for the messiah to deliver them from their sins only to deliver them from human rule and bondage and set up the messianic kingdom but what Jesus did was far greater He being God paid the price by His sacrifice on the cross and saved them from their sins.

It wasn’t a blasphemy to claim to be the messiah in Jesus’ day but it was blasphemy to claim to be God and this is the reason that the Pharisees sentenced Jesus to death when He claimed to be the Son of man from Daniel 7:13-14 during His trial thus claiming that He and the Father are one.

If Jesus already fulfilled the purpose for the sacrificial temple age through the cross is there really a need for a future messianic sacrificial temple age?

Why would God still impose a messianic temple age which only pointed to Jesus if Jesus already fulfilled its purpose?

This is the reason why I don't believe in a future messianic thousand year temple age or even a future third temple as there is no need or purpose for it and it would only push the non believing Jews further away from Jesus.

Thus we are reigning with inner peace with Jesus now.

It matters not whether we feel if there is a need for a future Messianic temple age. There will be one as is clearly and unambiguously spelled out in SCripture.

 

[Davy]

This is the reason why I don't believe in a future messianic thousand year temple age or even a future third temple as there is no need or purpose for it and it would only push the non believing Jews further away from Jesus.

Thus we are reigning with inner peace with Jesus now.

That's just wishful thinking, outside the Scriptures. God's Word is the Measure, not what we may want to believe.

The orthodox Jews are still expecting the coming of Messiah. God is going to send them one, but not the real Messiah. They deny His Son, so they will get another and worship him in falseness. This must happen before the end of this present world. The Zechariah prophecy foretells that Messiah will build the temple, so there will be another Jewish temple built just for that coming false Messiah.

In 1 Corinthians 15:23-28, Apostle Paul pulling from Psalms 2 about Christ's future reign over all nations, it is shown that Jesus must reign... until all His enemies are put under His footstool. At present, and all the way to the end of this present world, that reign by Christ over all His enemies is NOT going to happen, so it is foolishness to think that could be happening now, or at any time during this present world.

So it's very simple. If the True Christ is not returned to earth yet to reign with His elect over all nations with the "rod of iron", then the fake Christ is still yet to come, for Jesus Christ will only return to defeat the existing fake Christ on earth at the end of this present world.

 

[Marty fox]

Then I guess you deleted Romans 11 out of your Bible.

No not at all we need to ask who is true Israel as in all Israel.

Romans 9:6
It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

Romans 11:26
26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.

There is a reason Jacob was separated Zion in the verse above

26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written

“The deliverer will come from Zion(national Israel)
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob (true Israel the church made up faithful before and after the cross)

 

[Marty fox]

It matters not whether we feel if there is a need for a future Messianic temple age. There will be one as is clearly and unambiguously spelled out in SCripture.

Is it or is there a or is symbolic?

 

[Marty fox]

That's just wishful thinking, outside the Scriptures. God's Word is the Measure, not what we may want to believe.

The orthodox Jews are still expecting the coming of Messiah. God is going to send them one, but not the real Messiah. They deny His Son, so they will get another and worship him in falseness. This must happen before the end of this present world. The Zechariah prophecy foretells that Messiah will build the temple, so there will be another Jewish temple built just for that coming false Messiah.

In 1 Corinthians 15:23-28, Apostle Paul pulling from Psalms 2 about Christ's future reign over all nations, it is shown that Jesus must reign... until all His enemies are put under His footstool. At present, and all the way to the end of this present world, that reign by Christ over all His enemies is NOT going to happen, so it is foolishness to think that could be happening now, or at any time during this present world.

So it's very simple. If the True Christ is not returned to earth yet to reign with His elect over all nations with the "rod of iron", then the fake Christ is still yet to come, for Jesus Christ will only return to defeat the existing fake Christ on earth at the end of this present world.

But Jesus says that He rulers now

Revelation 3:14
14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:

These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation

 

[Marty fox]

That's just wishful thinking, outside the Scriptures. God's Word is the Measure, not what we may want to believe.

The orthodox Jews are still expecting the coming of Messiah. God is going to send them one, but not the real Messiah. They deny His Son, so they will get another and worship him in falseness. This must happen before the end of this present world. The Zechariah prophecy foretells that Messiah will build the temple, so there will be another Jewish temple built just for that coming false Messiah.

In 1 Corinthians 15:23-28, Apostle Paul pulling from Psalms 2 about Christ's future reign over all nations, it is shown that Jesus must reign... until all His enemies are put under His footstool. At present, and all the way to the end of this present world, that reign by Christ over all His enemies is NOT going to happen, so it is foolishness to think that could be happening now, or at any time during this present world.

So it's very simple. If the True Christ is not returned to earth yet to reign with His elect over all nations with the "rod of iron", then the fake Christ is still yet to come, for Jesus Christ will only return to defeat the existing fake Christ on earth at the end of this present world.

That already happened when the Jews rejected their Messiah and chose Rome instead when they yelled crucify Him and then said we have no king but Cesar and we all know how that turned out. Then Rome was eventually judged by God