Will Trump seek asylum in Israel and Build the 3rd Temple?

[ewq1938]

You're looking at the English translation, but the book was not written in English. I'm not a Greek scholar, but I'm smart enough to recognize when the translators have used a word that either no longer means what it meant in 1600, or was just a poor translation to begin with.

You say "scripture is clear, there is a body and a soul and a spirit" but you can't even define what those things are. How can you say it is clear, when you can't explain it? At least I'm explaining it. You're just defending it, without knowing what it means.

I have studied more into this than you have. I don't confuse body and soul as the same thing and don't make the claim that there is no spirit that goes up...you have done that.

The spirit and soul are the same thing. They have the same definitions in English, Greek and Hebrew.

There is no difference between the soul and spirit except the two names being different. Otherwise, they are identical:

In John 12:27, Jesus said, "Now is my soul (psuche) troubled", and in John 13:21 it says, "Jesus was troubled in his spirit (pneuma)"

Here spirit and soul are used interchangeably. He was troubled in his soul, and he was troubled in his spirit.


Genesis 35:18 (KJV)
18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.

James 2:26 (KJV)
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


Here they are used also interchangeably since the body is dead when the soul departs and the body is also dead when the spirit departs.


Soul and Spirit are defined the same in both Hebrew and Greek, and even English. They are synonyms.


English:

soul (sol) noun
1. The animating and vital principle in human beings, credited with the faculties of thought, action, and emotion and often conceived as an immaterial entity.
2. The spiritual nature of human beings, regarded as immortal, separable from the body at death, and susceptible to happiness or misery in a future state.
3. The disembodied spirit of a dead human being; a shade....
5. A human being: "the homes of some nine hundred souls" (Garrison Keillor).
6. The central or integral part; the vital core: "It saddens me that this network . . . may lose its soul, which is after all the quest for news" (M. Kalb).

spir·it (spîr¹ît) noun
1. a. The vital principle or animating force within living beings. b. Incorporeal consciousness....
2. The soul, considered as departing from the body of a person at death.
6. a. The part of a human being associated with the mind, will, and feelings: Though unable to join us today, they are with us in spirit. b. The essential nature of a person or group.
7. A person as characterized by a stated quality: He is a proud spirit.(11)

Take note that within the definition of SOUL that the word SPIRIT is used and in the definition of SPIRIT that the word SOUL is used. The spirit is a soul and the soul is a spirit! How's that for a full circle!

BDB dictionary Hebrew:

SOUL (nephesh):
1) soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
1a) that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
1b) living being
1c) living being (with life in the blood)
1d) the man himself, self, person or individual
1e) seat of the appetites
1f) seat of emotions and passions


SPIRIT (ruach)
1) wind, breath, mind, spirit
1a) breath
1b) wind
1c) spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation)
1c1) spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour
1c2) courage
1c3) temper, anger
1c4) impatience, patience
1c5) spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented)
1c6) disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse
1d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)
1d1) as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death, disembodied being
1e) spirit (as seat of emotion)
1e1) desire
1e2) sorrow, trouble
1f) spirit
1f1) as seat or organ of mental acts
1f2) rarely of the will
1f3) as seat especially of moral character(13)

So in Hebrew "soul" refers to "that which breathes" and called mind, desire, and emotion.
And "spirit" refers to "that which breathes" and the part of us which experiences emotions and is responsible for "mental acts."

Same basic things just written using a little different terminology.

Greek:

Thayer's Greek words for soul (psuche) and spirit (pneuma):


SOUL (psuche):
1) breath
1a) the breath of life
1a1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
1a1a) of animals
1a12) of men
1b) life
1c) that in which there is life
1c1) a living being, a living soul
2) the soul
2a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
2b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
2c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death....

SPIRIT (pneuma)
2) the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
2a) the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
2b) the soul
3) a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
3a) a life giving spirit
3b) a human soul that has left the body
4) the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one
4a) the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.(14)



Thus in Greek "soul" refers to the animating principle which feels, desires, and can attain everlasting life with God.
And "spirit" is also the animating principle which feels, thinks, and decides. Notice once again, the use of the word soul to define spirit (twice in fact: 2b,3b).

Greek:

Strong's Greek words for soul (psuche) and spirit (pneuma):



Spirit
G4151
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

Soul
G5590
psuche
psoo-khay'
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.


"Summing up, overall the definitions of the English words and lexical entries for the Hebrew and Greek words indicate that "soul" and "spirit" are interchangeable terms, with common characteristics ascribed to both."


Spirit: "by analogy or figuratively a spirit" and "the rational soul"
Soul: "(by implication) spirit" and "the rational and immortal soul"

Same exact meanings.



Unfortunately scripture doesn't provide any reasoning why the two have their own names or why we need two of something that is essentially two of the same thing with no provided differences between them. It's kind of like having a two headed coin, the same on both sides yet one side is not the other side technically.

 

[ewq1938]

Funny, it seems we both referenced that scripture at the same time. You'll notice that I did address that verse in my other post, and it supports my position, as you'll see. It's not the spirit that goes up to God. It is the breath of life.

No, it's the spirit within us that leaves. The word has many many meanings but spirit is correct in that verse. The expert translators were correct.

H7307
רוּח
rûach
BDB Definition:
1) wind, breath, mind, spirit
1a) breath
1b) wind
1b1) of heaven
1b2) quarter (of wind), side
1b3) breath of air
1b4) air, gas
1b5) vain, empty thing
1c) spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation)
1c1) spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour
1c2) courage
1c3) temper, anger
1c4) impatience, patience
1c5) spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented)
1c6) disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse
1c7) prophetic spirit
1d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)
1d1) as gift, preserved by God, God’s spirit, departing at death, disembodied being
1e) spirit (as seat of emotion)
1e1) desire
1e2) sorrow, trouble
1f) spirit
1f1) as seat or organ of mental acts
1f2) rarely of the will
1f3) as seat especially of moral character
1g) Spirit of God, the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
1g1) as inspiring ecstatic state of prophecy
1g2) as impelling prophet to utter instruction or warning
1g3) imparting warlike energy and executive and administrative power
1g4) as endowing men with various gifts
1g5) as energy of life
1g6) as manifest in the Shekinah glory
1g7) never referred to as a depersonalized force
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H7306

 

[Freedm]

I have studied more into this than you have. I don't confuse body and soul as the same thing and don't make the claim that there is no spirit that goes up...you have done that.

The spirit and soul are the same thing. They have the same definitions in English, Greek and Hebrew.

There is no difference between the soul and spirit except the two names being different. Otherwise, they are identical:

o.k. I've been responding to both you and spiritual Israelite, so I lose track of who said what, but even so, how can you say they are the same thing in light of 1 Thess 5:23?

1 Thess 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

This verse is either telling us that spirit and soul are two different things, or it is being unnecessarily repetitive.

 

[Freedm]

Genesis 35:18 (KJV)
18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.

James 2:26 (KJV)
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


Here they are used also interchangeably since the body is dead when the soul departs and the body is also dead when the spirit departs.


Soul and Spirit are defined the same in both Hebrew and Greek, and even English. They are synonyms.


English:

soul (sol) noun
1. The animating and vital principle in human beings, credited with the faculties of thought, action, and emotion and often conceived as an immaterial entity.
2. The spiritual nature of human beings, regarded as immortal, separable from the body at death, and susceptible to happiness or misery in a future state.
3. The disembodied spirit of a dead human being; a shade....
5. A human being: "the homes of some nine hundred souls" (Garrison Keillor).
6. The central or integral part; the vital core: "It saddens me that this network . . . may lose its soul, which is after all the quest for news" (M. Kalb).

spir·it (spîr¹ît) noun
1. a. The vital principle or animating force within living beings. b. Incorporeal consciousness....
2. The soul, considered as departing from the body of a person at death.
6. a. The part of a human being associated with the mind, will, and feelings: Though unable to join us today, they are with us in spirit. b. The essential nature of a person or group.
7. A person as characterized by a stated quality: He is a proud spirit.(11)

Take note that within the definition of SOUL that the word SPIRIT is used and in the definition of SPIRIT that the word SOUL is used. The spirit is a soul and the soul is a spirit! How's that for a full circle!

BDB dictionary Hebrew:

SOUL (nephesh):
1) soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
1a) that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
1b) living being
1c) living being (with life in the blood)
1d) the man himself, self, person or individual
1e) seat of the appetites
1f) seat of emotions and passions


SPIRIT (ruach)
1) wind, breath, mind, spirit
1a) breath
1b) wind
1c) spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation)
1c1) spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour
1c2) courage
1c3) temper, anger
1c4) impatience, patience
1c5) spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented)
1c6) disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse
1d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)
1d1) as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death, disembodied being
1e) spirit (as seat of emotion)
1e1) desire
1e2) sorrow, trouble
1f) spirit
1f1) as seat or organ of mental acts
1f2) rarely of the will
1f3) as seat especially of moral character(13)

So in Hebrew "soul" refers to "that which breathes" and called mind, desire, and emotion.
And "spirit" refers to "that which breathes" and the part of us which experiences emotions and is responsible for "mental acts."

Same basic things just written using a little different terminology.

Greek:

Thayer's Greek words for soul (psuche) and spirit (pneuma):


SOUL (psuche):
1) breath
1a) the breath of life
1a1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
1a1a) of animals
1a12) of men
1b) life
1c) that in which there is life
1c1) a living being, a living soul
2) the soul
2a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
2b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
2c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death....

SPIRIT (pneuma)
2) the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
2a) the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
2b) the soul
3) a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
3a) a life giving spirit
3b) a human soul that has left the body
4) the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one
4a) the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.(14)



Thus in Greek "soul" refers to the animating principle which feels, desires, and can attain everlasting life with God.
And "spirit" is also the animating principle which feels, thinks, and decides. Notice once again, the use of the word soul to define spirit (twice in fact: 2b,3b).

Greek:

Strong's Greek words for soul (psuche) and spirit (pneuma):



Spirit
G4151
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

Soul
G5590
psuche
psoo-khay'
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.


"Summing up, overall the definitions of the English words and lexical entries for the Hebrew and Greek words indicate that "soul" and "spirit" are interchangeable terms, with common characteristics ascribed to both."


Spirit: "by analogy or figuratively a spirit" and "the rational soul"
Soul: "(by implication) spirit" and "the rational and immortal soul"

Same exact meanings.



Unfortunately scripture doesn't provide any reasoning why the two have their own names or why we need two of something that is essentially two of the same thing with no provided differences between them. It's kind of like having a two headed coin, the same on both sides yet one side is not the other side technically.

Good study. You make some good points, but 1 Thess 5 still implies they have different meanings. Also Genesis 2:7 tells us that the soul is something we are, not something we have. So there's still something missing in the understanding of these words.

 

[Freedm]

No, it's the spirit within us that leaves. The word has many many meanings but spirit is correct in that verse. The expert translators were correct.

H7307
רוּח
rûach
BDB Definition:
1) wind, breath, mind, spirit
1a) breath
1b) wind
1b1) of heaven
1b2) quarter (of wind), side
1b3) breath of air
1b4) air, gas
1b5) vain, empty thing
1c) spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation)
1c1) spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour
1c2) courage
1c3) temper, anger
1c4) impatience, patience
1c5) spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented)
1c6) disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse
1c7) prophetic spirit
1d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)
1d1) as gift, preserved by God, God’s spirit, departing at death, disembodied being
1e) spirit (as seat of emotion)
1e1) desire
1e2) sorrow, trouble
1f) spirit
1f1) as seat or organ of mental acts
1f2) rarely of the will
1f3) as seat especially of moral character
1g) Spirit of God, the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
1g1) as inspiring ecstatic state of prophecy
1g2) as impelling prophet to utter instruction or warning
1g3) imparting warlike energy and executive and administrative power
1g4) as endowing men with various gifts
1g5) as energy of life
1g6) as manifest in the Shekinah glory
1g7) never referred to as a depersonalized force
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H7306

That doesn't make sense because if the old testament saints had spirits, then they would never have died, but they did die. They returned to the dust and slept with their fathers. And if they had spirits, and lived on forever after death in spirit form, then there would have been no reason for Jesus' sacrifice.

 

[ewq1938]

Good study. You make some good points, but 1 Thess 5 still implies they have different meanings. Also Genesis 2:7 tells us that the soul is something we are, not something we have. So there's still something missing in the understanding of these words.

Thanks.


The only thing missing is understanding there are various "souls" in the bible, each with their own meaning.

Soul has three definitions.

1: The word soul is an old English term that could be used in place of the word "person" or "human being". Basically if you had a soul you could be called a soul.

2: The word soul can be a reference to the human body.

3: The word soul is also the spiritual part of human beings (it's moral and emotional aspect), and survives death and will wait for a physical body to inhabit again at the resurrection.


1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Here we have all the parts that comprise a whole person:

body
soul
spirit


The soul here is definition 3.


1Pe_3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Here soul is speaking of all three, body soul and spirit together as a complete person. This would be a soul as in definition 1 and 2.


Human beings have a soul and a spirit and a body. Colloquially a person is a "soul" but a different type of soul than the soul within us.

 

[ewq1938]

That doesn't make sense because if the old testament saints had spirits, then they would never have died, but they did die.

Having a spirit does not prevent death of the body.

They returned to the dust and slept with their fathers.

Only from a physical perspective. The spirits of the dead do go to God rather than remain here on Earth in a grave of some form and the spirits of the unsaved also do the same excerpt they go to hades. Christ spoke of this about the rich man.

And if they had spirits, and lived on forever after death in spirit form, then there would have been no reason for Jesus' sacrifice.

Jesus' sacrifice is about sins being forgiven because the required price was paid forever. Sprits that live on after the death of the body is not directly related to Christ's sacrifice since it happens to all people who die.

 

[Freedm]

Having a spirit does not prevent death of the body.

Yes, but death of the body is not death of the person, because the person is the consciousness. If the consciousness stays with the spirit, then the spirit is the person. So if a person lives on as a spirit, then the person has not died, only the body.

 

[Freedm]

Only from a physical perspective. The spirits of the dead do go to God rather than remain here on Earth in a grave of some form and the spirits of the unsaved also do the same excerpt they go to hades. Christ spoke of this about the rich man.

Again, if the person goes to heaven (as a spirit) then the person is not returning to dust, nor sleeping in the earth. Yet the Bible is clear, in the old testament, that the people did return to the dust. So you can not say that the people went to heaven.

You also can not say that the body returns to dust, but the spirit returns to heaven because you'd have to explain that. What is a person? Is a person a body, a spirit, or a consciousness? When God said "to dust you will return" what is "you" in that context? If you say body, then you can not say that "you" goes to heaven because a body can not go to heaven. Also, if you say "body" then why did God not say "To dust your body will return"? Instead he said "To dust you will return". He didn't say "To dust your body will return". So you have to decide, what are you? Because you can't have it both ways. You can't both "return to the dust" and "go to heaven". That's impossible.

 

[ewq1938]

Yes, but death of the body is not death of the person, because the person is the consciousness.

Both is technically correct.

When a body dies, we know a person died. That is from our Earthly perspective. Scripture refers to these people as the dead. I can show this in scripture if needed.

From a perspective we do not have normally, the dead are alive but alive as a partial person, missing the body but soul and spirit are alive.

If the consciousness stays with the spirit, then the spirit is the person. So if a person lives on as a spirit, then the person has not died, only the body.

The body had been part of the person during their life though.

Consider Earth and Heaven as two different rooms.

On Earth, a dead person is when their body dies. Their body lays there, cold and doesn't think or move. Dead.

In Heaven there are those who are called the dead, but they are alive in a non-physical way and are incomplete as people. All the dead (but also alive) await a physical resurrection.

 

[ewq1938]

You also can not say that the body returns to dust, but the spirit returns to heaven because you'd have to explain that.

Because you can't have it both ways. You can't both "return to the dust" and "go to heaven". That's impossible.

Yet scripture does say exactly that:

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

[quietthinker]

Will Trump seek asylum in Israel and Build the 3rd Temple?​

He'll probably seek a stay on proceedings and build another smoke screen. Ohhhh, it's the third one? I lost count!

 

[Freedm]

You are not using all relative scriptures.

Ecc 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The dust does go to the Earth but there is a spirit in man and it does go up to God.

"He did not say that we would float up to heaven as spirits."


I'm going with exactly what scripture tells us, and in fact what God himself told us. Will you agree with what this verse says or find a way to avoid it?

I think the word spirit there would be more accurately translated as "breath of life". It is the same word used in Genesis 6:17 where it is translated as breath of life.

 

[Freedm]

Yet scripture does say exactly that:

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

It appears to, but like I said in my other post, the word "spirit" there would be more accurately translated as breath of life. That is the breath of life that God gave us in Genesis 2:7.

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Nowhere does it tell us that God gave us a spirit, but it does tell us that God gave us breath, so when we talk about something that is "returned to God who gave it", and that which is returned can be translated as either spirit, or breath, then it has to be breath.

 

[Freedm]

Both is technically correct.

When a body dies, we know a person died. That is from our Earthly perspective. Scripture refers to these people as the dead. I can show this in scripture if needed.

Can you show me an example written after 70 AD?

 

[Freedm]

Yet scripture does say exactly that:

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Paul said there is an earthly body and a heavenly / spiritual body (1 Cor 15), which to me means that we do not have both bodies at the same time. You're implying however that we do.

Correct me if I'm misunderstanding you, but you believe that the resurrection is simply the reunification of the spirit with the body. Correct? See, that makes no sense to me for three reasons.

1. If we live on as spirits after we die, then we don't actually ever die.
2. If we don't actually ever die, then Jesus' resurrection was pointless, because we already have eternal life.
3. Why would we want to rejoin with these old bodies if we already have spiritual bodies?

It just don't make sense. My understanding makes a lot more sense. We have one body at a time, either physical or spiritual and our spiritual body is eternal.

 

[rwb]

Think about it. If we can never experience death, as Jesus said, then we can not be resurrected from death. It's logically impossible. Therefore it must have already happened. Therefore, we must reconsider what the resurrection actually looks like. If our preconceived notions don't fit the facts (which I listed above), then we have to change our preconceived notions.

Believers have indeed experienced life from death already. Not physical life from physical death as you seem to be implying. But spiritual life from spiritual death for those who "were dead in trespasses and sins." (Eph 2) The Scripture calls this having part in the "first resurrection" and how we overcome the second death (Rev 20). The first resurrection is not 'what' but 'who'! Christ alone is the first resurrection man's partakes of spiritually when he/she is born again. It is through the Spirit of Christ in us that we have gone from being spiritually dead to spiritually alive. We were not literally resurrected when we were born again. But we were raised up together with Christ on in Christ when according to grace through faith we believed. It is having part in Christ's resurrection that we are given assurance that our spirit, through His Spirit in us shall NEVER die. We are never promised we shall never physically die. We have only partial spiritual eternal life through His Spirit, and since the Spirit will not leave us until we are physically resurrected immortal & incorruptible in an hour coming when the seventh trumpet sounds our 'spirit' can never die (Eph 1:14). And it is through our eternal spirit that returns with Christ (1Th 4:14) that our physical mortal body shall be resurrected to life again. Just as God breathed the breath of life (spirit) into man at creation, so too the breath of life through our eternal spirit will give immortal life to our changed physical body.

 

[rwb]

Ya, because Paul was speaking before 70 AD, before the resurrection had happened. I'm speaking after 70 AD, and after the resurrection.

Only Christ was physically resurrected immortal prior to 70 AD. That's why we must partake of His resurrection life (first resurrection) that we too shall have no fear of the second death.

 

[rwb]

Riddle me this. If we will never experience death, as Jesus told us, then how can we be resurrected from it?

Through our eternal spirit our mortal body shall be resurrected to life and changed (mortal to immortal & corruptible to incorruptible) in an hour coming when the last trumpet sounds. When we physically die in Christ, we have eternal spiritual life through His Spirit in us that our spirit can never die.

 

[rwb]

Good study. You make some good points, but 1 Thess 5 still implies they have different meanings. Also Genesis 2:7 tells us that the soul is something we are, not something we have. So there's still something missing in the understanding of these words.

I agree! The spirit of man is that which gives physical life to our mortal body, and together spirit (breath of life) and body became a "living soul." It's through understanding this distinction that we know eternal life we are promised when we believe is not physical but spiritual life we receive when we partake of Christ's resurrection life. For He is the "first resurrection" of the dead to immortality & incorruptibility.