Will you be caught up in the rapture or left-behind??

[CadyandZoe]

Lot knew that the people of Sodom & Gomorrah were vile and in deep sin against God.

2 Peter 2: 4-11
For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 7and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked 8(for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)— 9then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, 10and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries, 11whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord.

Notice how both the LORD and the Apostle Peter connect Noah and Lot and the destruction that came down.

The emphasis by the LORD and the Apostle Peter is:
#1.) God knows who belong to Him and He is able to keep them from Judgment
#2.) The world does not know God, neither do they desire God = 2 Thess ch2
#3.) Judgment/Wrath is coming again because the same vile sins are being committed as in the days of Noah and Lot.

Thank you for your thoughtful explanation.
Would you agree that the prophetic word is running along two lines? With regard to judgment, for instance, it appears that Israel will suffer another judgment, while the world will also suffer judgment.

For instance, I believe that the trumpet judgments are primarily directed at Israel, while the vial judgments are primarily directed at her enemies.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Undoubtedly? There isn't anything in the bible about any neighbors at all let alone them asking anything.

Since Noah and Lot are sister stories that teach the same basic concepts, and the people of Sodom had no idea what was coming, I think the same is true of the people of Noah's day. Yes Noah was a preacher of righteousness but that doesn't mean he preached to people outside of his immediate family.

When I used the word "neighbors" I simply assume that we all have neighbors, e.g. people who live close to us or people we trip over while they lay on the street.

Peter refers to Noah as a preacher of righteousness, and we know that Noah was also engaged in a large construction project. For this reason, I conclude that Noah preached to those who were close at hand, not having the time to venture too far away from the Ark. I suppose Noah restricted his preaching to his immediate family, but that seems an unusual word to use for interaction between family members. I teach my children, I don't "preach" to my children.

Even so, I think we can both agree that most people were unaware of the impending danger. But isn't Jesus saying more than that? Yes, the danger was quite unexpected whether we are speaking about Noah or Lot. But also, God took action to deliver Noah and Lot from danger. Perhaps this idea is part of Jesus' point also. When the Son of Man comes, preparation will make all the difference in how each of us experiences that event. Yes? No?

 

[David in NJ]

Thank you for your thoughtful explanation.
Would you agree that the prophetic word is running along two lines? With regard to judgment, for instance, it appears that Israel will suffer another judgment, while the world will also suffer judgment.

For instance, I believe that the trumpet judgments are primarily directed at Israel, while the vial judgments are primarily directed at her enemies.

Romans ch2
But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11For there is no partiality with God.


Romans ch3
But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Israel will be judged by God thru the nations = Zechariah ch14

Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

 

[PinSeeker]

Hmm. Respectfully Disagree:

God's Great GRACE Departure!

Amen.

Okay, I'm good with that. But just to clarify in case what I said conveyed any misunderstanding... There will be a rapture, just not a removal of anyone from anything. God never promises ~ or indicates that He will ~ remove us from anything... ever. But God does promise, over and over again throughout Scripture, to be with us always (the Father will not leave us or forsake us, as we read in a multitude of passages, the Son in Matthew 28:20, and the Holy Spirit in John 14:16), even in the midst of trouble (though we walk through the valley of the shadow of death... Psalm 23). And, as you know, I'm sure, all God's promises have their 'Yes' and 'Amen' in Christ Jesus, and that is why it is through Christ that we utter our Amen to God for his glory (2 Corinthians 1:20). He keeps His promises... every last one of them.

Grace and peace to you!

 

[ewq1938]

I teach my children, I don't "preach" to my children.

Same thing. Don't use the way modern English treats the word. Anything you speak can be preaching.

Even so, I think we can both agree that most people were unaware of the impending danger. But isn't Jesus saying more than that? Yes, the danger was quite unexpected whether we are speaking about Noah or Lot. But also, God took action to deliver Noah and Lot from danger. Perhaps this idea is part of Jesus' point also. When the Son of Man comes, preparation will make all the difference in how each of us experiences that event. Yes? No?

Lot didn't have to prepare, but Noah did. Both were moved away from the area of God's wrath so they could be saved and preserved for a new life elsewhere. The same thing applies to those raptured.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Same thing. Don't use the way modern English treats the word. Anything you speak can be preaching.




Lot didn't have to prepare, but Noah did. Both were moved away from the area of God's wrath so they could be saved and preserved for a new life elsewhere. The same thing applies to those raptured.

I think Jesus' remark about Lot's wife is significant in terms of her willingness to leave it all behind. Isn't it the case that preparation is more than physical provision? Like Lot's wife, some people aren't psychologically prepared to sacrifice this life for the next life. Yes?

 

[ewq1938]

I think Jesus' remark about Lot's wife is significant in terms of her willingness to leave it all behind. Isn't it the case that preparation is more than physical provision? Like Lot's wife, some people aren't psychologically prepared to sacrifice this life for the next life. Yes?

I think it's more simple in that some people choose and prefer their sinful lives rather than move on to a holier life. I think this explains why satan does what he does knowing he loses in the end...he doesn't care. Also, in Rev some refuse to repent....they are symbolic of Lot's wife.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I think it's more simple in that some people choose and prefer their sinful lives rather than move on to a holier life. I think this explains why satan does what he does knowing he loses in the end...he doesn't care. Also, in Rev some refuse to repent....they are symbolic of Lot's wife.

I don't think Lot's wife was leading a sinful life. I think that she didn't want to leave home. Jesus asked us to make a value judgment, weighing the relative value of a good home life against a future life. Those who firmly grasp this life will lose it. Those who long for the next life ahead will find it.

 

[The Light]

Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Sa'-tan, which deceived the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Revelation 12:10 "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."

Verse 10 is when satan comes to this earth live and in color , and the whole world except for those with the seal of God, will think he is Christ

Revelation 12:11 "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

Why were those in verse 11 not raptured ? Please don't tell me anything about some tribulation saints

Those in verse 11 are not raptured because they are killed during the Great Tribulation. Are you not expecting people to die during the Great Tribulation?

The Church is already in heaven prior to this event. See Revelation 4 and 5. Those killed during the Great Tribulation are mostly of the twelve tribes, the seed of the woman.

Revelation 12
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The Lord is getting ready to open the door. If you are not aware of that, you are not watching as we are instructed.

Matthew 24
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

op: caught up or left behind?
Saved = caught up

Unsaved = left behind

Simplicity In Christ - Amen.

God's Great GRACE Departure!

 

[David in NJ]

I don't think Lot's wife was leading a sinful life. I think that she didn't want to leave home. Jesus asked us to make a value judgment, weighing the relative value of a good home life against a future life. Those who firmly grasp this life will lose it. Those who long for the next life ahead will find it.

What was 'home' for Lot and his wife = vile perversions being committed daily, in public, in daylight and embraced by the entire citizens of Sodom & Gomorrah.

Lot's wife's heart was attached to that which was condemned by God.

Right now the same is taking place in cities around the world.

The world system is made for the 'earth dwellers'.

This is why the Apostle John wrote 1 John = and take note of the connecting verses in chapter 2

Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. 17And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

Content/Subject Matter of verses 15-17 is directly connected to the Antichrist

​

18Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.


1 John is a Witness against falsehood, counterfeits and pre-trib rapture.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Will you be caught up in the rapture or left-behind?? 1 Thess. 4: 14-18 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left """will be caught up""" together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Every born again believer will be caught up and not left behind!

 

[CadyandZoe]

What was 'home' for Lot and his wife = vile perversions being committed daily, in public, in daylight and embraced by the entire citizens of Sodom & Gomorrah.

Lot's wife's heart was attached to that which was condemned by God.

Right now the same is taking place in cities around the world.

The world system is made for the 'earth dwellers'.

This is why the Apostle John wrote 1 John = and take note of the connecting verses in chapter 2

Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. 17And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

Content/Subject Matter of verses 15-17 is directly connected to the Antichrist

​

18Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.


1 John is a Witness against falsehood, counterfeits and pre-trib rapture.

I think Lot's wife was attached to the two daughters she left behind.

 

[David in NJ]

I think Lot's wife was attached to the two daughters she left behind.

Those two daughters and their husbands died along with Lot's wife because they became acclimated to the world culture in which they lived.
The same judgment will befall the same people living in and loving the world = 2 Thess ch2

 

[ewq1938]

I don't think Lot's wife was leading a sinful life. I think that she didn't want to leave home.

So all home sick people should be killed? Doesn't make much sense.

Jesus asked us to make a value judgment, weighing the relative value of a good home life against a future life. Those who firmly grasp this life will lose it. Those who long for the next life ahead will find it.

And those that long for the old life will become salt.

 

[CadyandZoe]

So all home sick people should be killed? Doesn't make much sense.

It makes sense when one takes account of the story and Jesus' commentary. Moses doesn't say why Lot's wife turned around but anyone who has been a parent can understand without being told. She was leaving home and she was going to miss her children so she hesitated.

And those that long for the old life will become salt.

Bear in mind the point Jesus is making. There will come a time when the call will go out to his kinsmen to come to Jerusalem to pray for deliverance. During that same time, the Lord will send an army of fires that destroy the rest of Israel. Just as in the days of Lot, each individual will need to make a decision whether or not to leave home and make the trip to Jerusalem. Those who choose to leave home and come to Jerusalem will survive the fires. Those who hesitate or stay, will not survive. Not only will this choice be a matter of faith, it will be a matter of life or death.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Every born again believer will be caught up and not left behind!

Semantics, but every born again believer that is alive and survives to see his coming will be harpazod. Most will not be alive and survive. They will be dead and be part of the resurrection of the dead. Therefore, not every born again believer will be harpazod.

 

[No Pre-TB]

The Church is already in heaven prior to this event. See Revelation 4 and 5.

Because the wrath of God started at the 1st seal? And since we are not for wrath, we are removed before his wrath begins at the Day of the Lord right?

Joel 2:31
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

Rev 6:12
And when I saw the Lamb open the sixth seal, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black like sackcloth of goat hair, and the whole moon turned blood red,

Looks like the Day of the Lord happens after the 6th seal, not before the 1st seal. If this is the case, why would we be taken years before the Day of the Lord even happens?

 

[ewq1938]

It makes sense when one takes account of the story and Jesus' commentary. Moses doesn't say why Lot's wife turned around but anyone who has been a parent can understand without being told. She was leaving home and she was going to miss her children so she hesitated.

Yet that is not cause to kill her is it? That is definitely not why she died.

Bear in mind the point Jesus is making. There will come a time when the call will go out to his kinsmen to come to Jerusalem to pray for deliverance. During that same time, the Lord will send an army of fires that destroy the rest of Israel. Just as in the days of Lot, each individual will need to make a decision whether or not to leave home and make the trip to Jerusalem. Those who choose to leave home and come to Jerusalem will survive the fires. Those who hesitate or stay, will not survive. Not only will this choice be a matter of faith, it will be a matter of life or death.

I don't believe in any of that.

 

[The Light]

Because the wrath of God started at the 1st seal? And since we are not for wrath, we are removed before his wrath begins at the Day of the Lord right?

Joel 2:31
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

Rev 6:12
And when I saw the Lamb open the sixth seal, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black like sackcloth of goat hair, and the whole moon turned blood red,

Looks like the Day of the Lord happens after the 6th seal, not before the 1st seal. If this is the case, why would we be taken years before the Day of the Lord even happens?

Please feel free to find a quote where I claim the wrath of God starts at the 1st seal.

Secondly, the wrath of God does not begin at the 6th seal. The coming of Jesus for the gathering from heaven and earth happens at the 6th seal. The wrath of God begins after the 7th seal is opened. Don't you understand that the trumpets are the trumpets of God's wrath?