Will you be caught up in the rapture or left-behind??

[David in NJ]

Sure he was...taken in a safe voyage and to a new place to live the same as Lot which is the sister story. The first action is always the righteous taken to safety in one form or another, followed by the wicked being punished. These two examples are representations of the rapture.




But first they were left or rejected (the meaning of the word in Greek), after that they were "taken" but that is a different Greek word than the word "taken" in the one taken one left examples.


Look at all the examples:

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


Noah enters the Ark first, then the flood comes. The one taken or accepted is Noah, the only one left is the "one left" which means to be rejected in the Greek. That applies to all who were left outside of the Ark. This is the same in another gospel where Lot is mentioned. The same thing happens, Lot is taken to safety just like Noah was and those left behind suffered wrath. This same order of the good/righteous FIRST and the evil/unrighteous LAST is repeated:



Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Just like the plague of hail in the OT, the one taken from the field was saved, the one left in the field was not. This same order of the good/righteous FIRST and the evil/unrighteous LAST is repeated.


Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Mat 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Mat 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Here we have good vs. bad. This same order of the good/righteous FIRST and the evil/unrighteous LAST is repeated.



Mat 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Mat 24:46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Mat 24:47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
Mat 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
Mat 24:49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
Mat 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
Mat 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Here the good servant is rewarded, then the evil servant is dealt with. The good servant knew the lord was coming and worked but the evil servant did whatever he wanted because he didn't think the lord was coming soon. This same order of the good/righteous FIRST and the evil/unrighteous LAST is repeated.



Mat 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
Mat 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
Mat 25:3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
Mat 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
Mat 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
Mat 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
Mat 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
Mat 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
Mat 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
Mat 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.


This one is obvious. The wise virgins were taken by the bridegroom, the unwise were left behind. This same order of the good/righteous FIRST and the evil/unrighteous LAST is repeated.



Mat 25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods
Mat 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
Mat 25:16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
Mat 25:17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
Mat 25:18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
Mat 25:19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
Mat 25:20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
Mat 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
Mat 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
Mat 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
Mat 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
Mat 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
Mat 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

YES, i SEE that you are looking at the righteous being the first to escape judgment = AGREE

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage,
until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
a.) they did not enter the ark = exposed for wrath/last
b.) only Noe(8) entered the ark = kept/first

Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
a.) "they" did not know the flood was coming and they were taken away with the flood/last
b.) only Noe(8) knew the flood was coming = kept/first

SAME as Today = "Today if you will hear His Voice" = We who HEAR(receive) the Voice of God are Saved and in the ARK/Christ.

SAME as Today = "and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come."

SAME as Today = Wrath(Flood) is Coming and only those who are in Christ(Ark) will be Delivered.

In Both cases, Noe and Lot, the righteous are spared/preserved/kept and the wicked are 'taken away'.

SAME at the LORD's Coming = a.) righteous are gathered b.) wicked taken away/destroyed

 

[PinSeeker]

Oh come on, you know Lord Jesus is only using a metaphor about right-hand and left-hand separation to point to His gathering of His faithful saints while the wicked He says to get away from Him (Matthew 7).

Sure I do.

Do I really need to teach you Bible 101 about that?

LOL! I don't need you to teach me anything, Davy. If you want to have a conversation, then... I'm here.

Like Rev.20 declares, immediately after Christ's future return and gathering of His elect, there will be a "thousand years" reign by Christ and His elect of the "first resurrection" over the nations with "a rod of iron". So you deny that Rev.20 Scripture about that?

I deny your... "understanding" of that Scripture, yes, but certainly not the Scripture itself.

You should read Ezekiel 44:23 also about that future Millennium reign by Christ and His elect.

I know it well, Davy. Yes, Christ is reigning from heaven now, and on the throne of David, which means over Israel (God's Israel, which is still under construction, not the tiny country on the eastern end of the Mediterranean Sea...).

What do you think those saints of Rev.3:9 will be doing in that future time when those of the "synagogue of Satan" are made to come worship Jesus at their feet?

Well, I guess you can anticipate my answer to this, but it's not merely future.

Looks like you have succumbed to men's false doctrines about Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Rev.20.

Well, we can call all the various views of the millennium "men's doctrines," in a sense, and regardless of the camp anyone is in, yes, he or she is going to say the other camps are false. But the basic disagreement is the assumption that the millennium is future only. The problem with that assumption is that is a basic misunderstanding of John's Revelation as a whole. And zooming in even more specifically, premillennialists (both historic and dispensational) hold to a chronological and more literal reading of Revelation 20:1-6 as subsequent to the return of Christ and final battle in Revelation 19:11-21. But this is not the case; the final battle of Revelation 19:11-21 should be seen as a parallel passage to Revelation 20:7-10... and Revelation 16:14-16, and Revelation 17:14. Similar language can be found in Ezekiel 38-39.

More could be said, certainly, but I'll just say this and leave it: the events of Revelation 20:1-6 cannot be strictly subsequent to the return of Christ and final battle in Revelation 19:11-21, because all Christ’s enemies have been destroyed in Revelation 19:11-21. If Revelation 20:1-6 were to represent events later than Revelation 19:11-21, there would be no one left for Satan to deceive in Revelation 20:3.

Jesus returns to gather His Church and ends the "great tribulation", and locks the devil in his pit prison, and only then does Christ's "thousand years" reign begin, as written.

Well, I don't completely disagree, but... Jesus came ~ referring to His first coming, His advent ~ and Satan was bound at that point, in the sense that he was no longer able to deceive the nations, until the "thousand years" are over... as written. I have no issue with anyone disagreeing with that understanding of what is written, but that understanding cannot be written off as "not making any sense" or "absurd." Obviously, you think that understanding is wrong, but I think the same regarding your understanding.

Sounds like you have succumbed to men's false doctrine of Amillennialism...

To be honest, I really kind of eschew the term 'amillennialism,' because the prefix ('a') seems to suggest that there is no millennium, which is not the case. It would be more correct to call it "nunc-millennialism," as 'nunc' is the Latin prefix for 'now.' We are presently living in the millennial kingdom ~ Jesus is our King right now ~ which is characterized by the simultaneous experiences of gospel victory and suffering for the gospel. The gospel is victorious because Satan is bound, rendering him incapable of preventing the spread of the gospel; yet he is not utterly powerless from persecuting the Church. Just before the end, Satan will again be permitted to deceive the nations and persecution will increase dramatically. Christians are awaiting the visible, bodily return of Christ, which will bring an end to all their suffering. The second coming occurs concurrently with the general resurrection and a public rapture of the Church, who immediately returns to earth with Christ. Christ then judges the world, and finally ushers in the eternal state. This is Revelation 20... actually, Revelation 20:1-21:8, which is the seventh of seven retellings of the Gospel age, each progressively focusing more and more on the return of Christ. This is how John's Revelation should be read and understood.

...a 2nd century doctrine...

It was an early understanding of the millennium, yes.

that most likely was started by Gnostics that crept into the early Church.

Mere speculation. And even if somewhat true, not disqualifying.

The 1st century Church fathers were all Pre-millennialists.

Possibly, but that doesn't mean they were right.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[rwb]

Why would I do that? Do you often tell people to forget what they learned in books? What use is a book then?

I see it. The flood came and took Noah and his family away.

That seems to imply Noah and his family did not know the flood waters were coming??? Why obey God and build the ark if they were surprised when the flood waters came? Those taken away by the waters of the flood were those who did not know/believe the flood waters were coming. They were taken away by being drowned by the waters of the flood. While Noah and his family knowing it was coming obeyed God and entered into the ark as He instructed them to, and were safe in the ark from the waters that inundated the earth.

 

[ewq1938]

YES, i SEE that you are looking at the righteous being the first to escape judgment = AGREE

Here's more:

taken
3880

3880 paralambano {par-al-am-ban'-o}

from 3844 and 2983; TDNT - 4:11,495; v

AV - take 30, receive 15, take unto 2, take up 2, take away 1; 50

1) to take to, to take with one's self, to join to one's self
1a) an associate, a companion
1b) metaph.
1b1) to accept or acknowledge one to be such as he professes to be
1b2) not to reject, not to withhold obedience
2) to receive something transmitted
2a) an office to be discharged
2b) to receive with the mind
2b1) by oral transmission: of the authors from whom the
tradition proceeds
2b2) by the narrating to others, by instruction of teachers
(used of disciples)

"to take with one's self"
"to join to one's self"
"an associate"
"a companion"
"not to reject"

Luk 18:31 Then he took (paralambano) unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.


Same word and meaning here.


Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again (second coming reference), and receive you (paralambano) unto myself (rapture reference); that where I am, there ye may be also.



This is the rapture and guess what? The same exact word and meaning is here too. The one taken is a reference to the rapture.


The one left (this word means to divorce, leave to die and reject) are those left to suffer God's wrath and possibly die.



left
863

863 aphiemi {af-ee'-ay-mee}

from 575 and hiemi (to send, an intens. form of eimi, to go);
TDNT - 1:509,88; v

AV - leave 52, forgive 47, suffer 14, let 8, forsake 6, let alone 6,
misc 13; 146

1) to send away
1a) to bid going away or depart
1a1) of a husband divorcing his wife
1b) to send forth, yield up, to expire
1c) to let go, let alone, let be
1c1) to disregard
1c2) to leave, not to discuss now, (a topic)
1c21) of teachers, writers and speakers
1c3) to omit, neglect
1d) to let go, give up a debt, forgive, to remit
1e) to give up, keep no longer
2) to permit, allow, not to hinder, to give up a thing to a person
3) to leave, go way from one
3a) in order to go to another place
3b) to depart from any one
3c) to depart from one and leave him to himself so that all
mutual claims are abandoned
3d) to desert wrongfully
3e) to go away leaving something behind
3f) to leave one by not taking him as a companion
3g) to leave on dying, leave behind one
3h) to leave so that what is left may remain, leave remaining
3i) abandon, leave destitute

"to send away"
"of a husband divorcing his wife"
"to expire"
"to disregard"
"neglect"
"keep no longer"
"to leave on dying"
"leave behind one"
"abandon, leave destitute"

That's the complete opposite as being "taken" and is very negative. Do you
want to be rejected at the return of Christ or do you want to be accepted?
Christ takes the first one from the field and the rest is "left" by him, and
are "kept no longer".






Who was TAKEN by the Ark?
Who was LEFT outside the Ark?
Who was TAKEN to a safe place to live?
Who was LEFT to die in an unsafe place?

Who was TAKEN out of Sodom?
Who was LEFT in Sodom?
Who was TAKEN to a safe place to live?
Who was LEFT to die in an unsafe place?

Why does TAKEN/paralambano¯ mean to accept as a companion and does NOT mean to reject and leave to die?
Why does LEFT/aphie¯mi mean to reject and leave someone to die and does NOT mean to accept as a companion?

Why does TAKEN/paralambano¯ mean you survive?
Why does LEFT/aphie¯mi mean you do not survive?

 

[David in NJ]

Here's more:

taken
3880

3880 paralambano {par-al-am-ban'-o}

from 3844 and 2983; TDNT - 4:11,495; v

AV - take 30, receive 15, take unto 2, take up 2, take away 1; 50

1) to take to, to take with one's self, to join to one's self
1a) an associate, a companion
1b) metaph.
1b1) to accept or acknowledge one to be such as he professes to be
1b2) not to reject, not to withhold obedience
2) to receive something transmitted
2a) an office to be discharged
2b) to receive with the mind
2b1) by oral transmission: of the authors from whom the
tradition proceeds
2b2) by the narrating to others, by instruction of teachers
(used of disciples)

"to take with one's self"
"to join to one's self"
"an associate"
"a companion"
"not to reject"

Luk 18:31 Then he took (paralambano) unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.


Same word and meaning here.


Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again (second coming reference), and receive you (paralambano) unto myself (rapture reference); that where I am, there ye may be also.



This is the rapture and guess what? The same exact word and meaning is here too. The one taken is a reference to the rapture.


The one left (this word means to divorce, leave to die and reject) are those left to suffer God's wrath and possibly die.



left
863

863 aphiemi {af-ee'-ay-mee}

from 575 and hiemi (to send, an intens. form of eimi, to go);
TDNT - 1:509,88; v

AV - leave 52, forgive 47, suffer 14, let 8, forsake 6, let alone 6,
misc 13; 146

1) to send away
1a) to bid going away or depart
1a1) of a husband divorcing his wife
1b) to send forth, yield up, to expire
1c) to let go, let alone, let be
1c1) to disregard
1c2) to leave, not to discuss now, (a topic)
1c21) of teachers, writers and speakers
1c3) to omit, neglect
1d) to let go, give up a debt, forgive, to remit
1e) to give up, keep no longer
2) to permit, allow, not to hinder, to give up a thing to a person
3) to leave, go way from one
3a) in order to go to another place
3b) to depart from any one
3c) to depart from one and leave him to himself so that all
mutual claims are abandoned
3d) to desert wrongfully
3e) to go away leaving something behind
3f) to leave one by not taking him as a companion
3g) to leave on dying, leave behind one
3h) to leave so that what is left may remain, leave remaining
3i) abandon, leave destitute

"to send away"
"of a husband divorcing his wife"
"to expire"
"to disregard"
"neglect"
"keep no longer"
"to leave on dying"
"leave behind one"
"abandon, leave destitute"

That's the complete opposite as being "taken" and is very negative. Do you
want to be rejected at the return of Christ or do you want to be accepted?
Christ takes the first one from the field and the rest is "left" by him, and
are "kept no longer".






Who was TAKEN by the Ark?
Who was LEFT outside the Ark?
Who was TAKEN to a safe place to live?
Who was LEFT to die in an unsafe place?

Who was TAKEN out of Sodom?
Who was LEFT in Sodom?
Who was TAKEN to a safe place to live?
Who was LEFT to die in an unsafe place?

Why does TAKEN/paralambano¯ mean to accept as a companion and does NOT mean to reject and leave to die?
Why does LEFT/aphie¯mi mean to reject and leave someone to die and does NOT mean to accept as a companion?

Why does TAKEN/paralambano¯ mean you survive?
Why does LEFT/aphie¯mi mean you do not survive?

Thank you for the extra scriptures.

I am only speaking on the Matt 24:38-39 and Luke 17:26-30

For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

In this account there is a clear and undeniable contrast between "they" who "did not know" and Noah who knew and entered the ark.

Undeniably, the flood took away the wicked.

God uses 'taken' for both the wicked and the righteous.
So in one case, such as Noah, it is the wicked who are taken away and Noah(8) who are left.

In Matt ch25 the 5 wise virgins are gathered/taken and the 5 foolish are left for judgment.

Luke ch17
And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.

Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built;
but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.
Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

So we SEE that the righteous are FIRST forewarned by God and are kept/preserved by God BEFORE judgment/wrath falls upon the wicked.

In Noah, the Ark was the protection and with Lot God sent angels to deliver them.
In both cases the wicked were destroyed and thus taken and/or removed from the earth.
In both cases Noah and Lot remained while under protection.

When the LORD comes, it again will be the righteous who are gathered for protection and the wicked taken and burned.
The Righteous will Remain, Rule and Reign with Christ whereas the wicked will be taken away.

Psalm 37
For evildoers shall be cut off;
But those who wait on the Lord,
They shall inherit the earth.
For yet a little while and the wicked shall be no more;
Indeed, you will look carefully for his place,
But it shall be no more.
But the meek shall inherit the earth,
And shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

Again we see the wicked taken away and the Righteous remaining.

 

[David in NJ]

That seems to imply Noah and his family did not know the flood waters were coming??? Why obey God and build the ark if they were surprised when the flood waters came? Those taken away by the waters of the flood were those who did not know/believe the flood waters were coming. They were taken away by being drowned by the waters of the flood. While Noah and his family knowing it was coming obeyed God and entered into the ark as He instructed them to, and were safe in the ark from the waters that inundated the earth.

AGREE

Hebrews 11:7
By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in godly fear built an ark to save his family. By faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.

1 Peter 3:20
when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

 

[ewq1938]

So in one case, such as Noah, it is the wicked who are taken away and Noah(8) who are left.

Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


In the story of Noah, it says all were taken away. Some in a boat, some drowned...but all taken away.



Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, (the one taken/received)
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away (the one left/rejected); so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken (accepted), and the other left (rejected).
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

In Matt ch25 the 5 wise virgins are gathered/taken and the 5 foolish are left for judgment.

It's the same order in all the examples Christ gave, including Noah and the flood. Noah is the wise virgins/one taken, and the wicked are the unwise virgins/the one left which means left to die or left as in rejected. Remember when two team sports captains in school would take turns picking people for their team? The last one was the one not wanted, the one "left". Look at the definitions again:


left
863

863 aphiemi {af-ee'-ay-mee}

from 575 and hiemi (to send, an intens. form of eimi, to go);
TDNT - 1:509,88; v

AV - leave 52, forgive 47, suffer 14, let 8, forsake 6, let alone 6,
misc 13; 146

1) to send away
1a) to bid going away or depart
1a1) of a husband divorcing his wife
1b) to send forth, yield up, to expire
1c) to let go, let alone, let be
1c1) to disregard
1c2) to leave, not to discuss now, (a topic)
1c21) of teachers, writers and speakers
1c3) to omit, neglect
1d) to let go, give up a debt, forgive, to remit
1e) to give up, keep no longer
2) to permit, allow, not to hinder, to give up a thing to a person
3) to leave, go way from one
3a) in order to go to another place
3b) to depart from any one
3c) to depart from one and leave him to himself so that all
mutual claims are abandoned
3d) to desert wrongfully
3e) to go away leaving something behind
3f) to leave one by not taking him as a companion
3g) to leave on dying, leave behind one
3h) to leave so that what is left may remain, leave remaining
3i) abandon, leave destitute

"to send away"
"of a husband divorcing his wife"
"to expire"
"to disregard"
"neglect"
"keep no longer"
"to leave on dying"
"leave behind one"
"abandon, leave destitute"

Again we see the wicked taken away and the Righteous remaining.

Not with Noah, Lot or the wise virgins. They all were taken away first, then the ones left were punished.

 

[n2thelight]

Not a wise choice. Think I'm going to leave because I'm going to watch and be ready as instructed.

Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Sa'-tan, which deceived the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Revelation 12:10 "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."

Verse 10 is when satan comes to this earth live and in color , and the whole world except for those with the seal of God, will think he is Christ

Revelation 12:11 "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

Why were those in verse 11 not raptured ? Please don't tell me anything about some tribulation saints

 

[n2thelight]

You don't have to go.
You can stay here, as the world will need someone to explain where the Bride of Christ went, when they all left.

They won't believe you, but you can try.

You may need to leave those left behind novels alone , albeit fiction it was a great read

 

[Gottservant]

That is the "Bema Seat"

Its known also as the "Judgement seat of Christ"....

And notice that the WORK is burned..........not the person "cleansed"..

[...]

This statement inspired a work of faith, in me (repentance) thankyou!

 

[CadyandZoe]

That seems to imply Noah and his family did not know the flood waters were coming??? Why obey God and build the ark if they were surprised when the flood waters came? Those taken away by the waters of the flood were those who did not know/believe the flood waters were coming. They were taken away by being drowned by the waters of the flood. While Noah and his family knowing it was coming obeyed God and entered into the ark as He instructed them to, and were safe in the ark from the waters that inundated the earth.

I didn't mean to give that impression. Sorry. Of course, you are right. Noah and his family knew that the flood was coming.

Here is how I envision the situation. Noah spent years building the ark. And during that time his neighbors undoubtedly asked Noah what he was doing and why. Noah also spent a lot of time preaching righteousness and judgment to his neighbors. Perhaps other people came to hear Noah preach and to marvel at this crazy man and his "ark."

The people remained skeptical. I suspect that Noah heard comments like, "God is not going to send water to destroy the earth? What kind of madness is Noah preaching?" What do they say about extraordinary claims? I suspect that Noah's neighbors remained skeptical, not believing what Noah said about a worldwide flood, an event unfamiliar to anyone who lived up until that time..

Consequently, Noah's neighbors didn't "know" that Noah spoke the truth until it was too late. They saw Noah and his family enter the Ark. And they watched as the flood waters took Noah and his family away.

But of course, I can see your point also.

 

[Behold]

You may need to leave those left behind novels alone , albeit fiction it was a great read

Never read one.
No need.

If you are a part of the Bride of Christ, then you wont be entering the Jewish judgment situation.

 

[Behold]

This statement inspired a work of faith, in me (repentance) thankyou!

God bless You.

Be "in HIS Grace".... always.

"In Christ"

"One with God"

"born again".

 

[David in NJ]

I didn't mean to give that impression. Sorry. Of course, you are right. Noah and his family knew that the flood was coming.

Here is how I envision the situation. Noah spent years building the ark. And during that time his neighbors undoubtedly asked Noah what he was doing and why. Noah also spent a lot of time preaching righteousness and judgment to his neighbors. Perhaps other people came to hear Noah preach and to marvel at this crazy man and his "ark."

The people remained skeptical. I suspect that Noah heard comments like, "God is not going to send water to destroy the earth? What kind of madness is Noah preaching?" What do they say about extraordinary claims? I suspect that Noah's neighbors remained skeptical, not believing what Noah said about a worldwide flood, an event unfamiliar to anyone who lived up until that time..

Consequently, Noah's neighbors didn't "know" that Noah spoke the truth until it was too late. They saw Noah and his family enter the Ark. And they watched as the flood waters took Noah and his family away.

But of course, I can see your point also.

Good Morning,

You said: "they watched as the flood waters took Noah and his family away."

this was great lol = thank you

See if that fits the Truth = JESUS narrative:

Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man:
People were eating and drinking, marrying and being given in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark.
Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

 

[rwb]

I didn't mean to give that impression. Sorry. Of course, you are right. Noah and his family knew that the flood was coming.

Here is how I envision the situation. Noah spent years building the ark. And during that time his neighbors undoubtedly asked Noah what he was doing and why. Noah also spent a lot of time preaching righteousness and judgment to his neighbors. Perhaps other people came to hear Noah preach and to marvel at this crazy man and his "ark."

The people remained skeptical. I suspect that Noah heard comments like, "God is not going to send water to destroy the earth? What kind of madness is Noah preaching?" What do they say about extraordinary claims? I suspect that Noah's neighbors remained skeptical, not believing what Noah said about a worldwide flood, an event unfamiliar to anyone who lived up until that time..

Consequently, Noah's neighbors didn't "know" that Noah spoke the truth until it was too late. They saw Noah and his family enter the Ark. And they watched as the flood waters took Noah and his family away.

But of course, I can see your point also.

It seems to me that all who were not in the ark were busy trying not to drown in the flood waters that took them away.

 

[PinSeeker]

If you are a part of the Bride of Christ, then you wont be entering the Jewish judgment situation.

Oh, we will... Each will be judged according to his/her works; Paul is very clear about that in Romans 2:6-8...

"He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury."

Jesus shows us this graphically in Matthew 25:31-46...

"When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. Before Him will be gathered all the nations, and He will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And He will place the sheep on His right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave Me food, I was thirsty and you gave Me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed Me, I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you visited Me, I was in prison and you came to Me.’ Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? And when did we see You a stranger and welcome You, or naked and clothe You? And when did we see You sick or in prison and visit You?’ And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you did it to Me.’ Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave Me no food, I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome Me, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’ Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

And He alludes to this in John 5:28-29...

"Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear His voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment."

No one is spared of the final judgment, not even true Jews (Romans 2:28-29 ~ all those who are in Christ). The difference is that “according to works” means God, for believers, will take the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22) and the “good deeds” by which we let the light of our faith shine (Matthew 5:16), and He will accept them as corroborating evidence of our faith. His sentence of acquittal will not be because we are not guilty, but because Christ bore our guilt. The place of our works at the judgment is to serve as corroborating evidence that we did indeed put our trust in Christ. Therefore when we are acquitted and welcomed into the kingdom it will not be earned by works but it will be according to works. There will be an “accord” or an agreement between our salvation and our works. Unbelievers will have no ground ~ no Solid Rock ~ on which to stand; they "will not stand in the judgment," and their "way... will perish" (Psalm 1).

Grace and peace to you!

 

[David in NJ]

@CadyandZoe @rwb

Visibility during this extreme heavy rain would of been less then 100 feet.

Everyone was fleeing into shelters and when that failed, they sought higher ground IF they were even able to find it.

Have you ever been in a heavy down pour while driving and you litteraly cannot see beyond 30 feet.

 

[Behold]

Oh, we will... Each will be judged according to his/her works; \

The "bema" seat, is after you die, or once you are Raptured.
It doesn't happen on earth.

 

[rwb]

Oh, we will... Each will be judged according to his/her works; Paul is very clear about that in Romans 2:6-8...

"He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury."

Jesus shows us this graphically in Matthew 25:31-46...

"When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. Before Him will be gathered all the nations, and He will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And He will place the sheep on His right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave Me food, I was thirsty and you gave Me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed Me, I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you visited Me, I was in prison and you came to Me.’ Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? And when did we see You a stranger and welcome You, or naked and clothe You? And when did we see You sick or in prison and visit You?’ And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you did it to Me.’ Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave Me no food, I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome Me, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’ Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

And He alludes to this in John 5:28-29...

"Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear His voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment."

No one is spared of the final judgment, not even true Jews (Romans 2:28-29 ~ all those who are in Christ). The difference is that “according to works” means God, for believers, will take the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22) and the “good deeds” by which we let the light of our faith shine (Matthew 5:16), and He will accept them as corroborating evidence of our faith. His sentence of acquittal will not be because we are not guilty, but because Christ bore our guilt. The place of our works at the judgment is to serve as corroborating evidence that we did indeed put our trust in Christ. Therefore when we are acquitted and welcomed into the kingdom it will not be earned by works but it will be according to works. There will be an “accord” or an agreement between our salvation and our works. Unbelievers will have no ground ~ no Solid Rock ~ on which to stand; they "will not stand in the judgment," and their "way... will perish" (Psalm 1).

Grace and peace to you!

You've omitted the GWTJ from Rev 20. That tells us it is "the dead" who are judged according to what is found written in the books and the book of life. I don't dispute the FACT that Scripture says ALL are accountable to God, whether we have done good or evil. But those who have done good are already clothed in the righteousness of Christ when every human is called to stand before God. It is when the last trumpet sounds the return of Christ that the faithful are bodily resurrected immortal and incorruptible. This is because in life the faithful surrendered their lives to Christ according to grace through faith. Therefore the faithful saints having already been judged in Christ's righteousness shall not be judged among the dead according to what is written in the books and the book of life.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Revelation 20:11-15 (KJV) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Those standing at the right hand of Christ have already been judged through the blood of Christ, and have already overcome the second death. So rather than judgment those standing on His right shall hear "Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord." Believers are the good and faithful servant because Christ is the good and faithful servant, and we have partaken of Him in life and have already passed from condemnation and death to eternal life through Him.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Good Morning,

You said: "they watched as the flood waters took Noah and his family away."

this was great lol = thank you

See if that fits the Truth = JESUS narrative:

Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man:
People were eating and drinking, marrying and being given in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark.
Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

I agree. This is one plausible understanding. Let's remove a bit of your proposal so that I can ask you a question

Original Proposal:
Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man:
People were eating and drinking, marrying and being given in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark.
Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

Modification (for the purpose of discussion only.)
Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man:
People were eating and drinking, marrying and being given in marriage,
Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

Question? After removing the sentence about Noah entering the ark. Did we lose Jesus' point?

Supposing for the sake of discussion, Jesus meant to illustrate the idea that sometimes disaster strikes while people are unaware. Both examples above make that point, right? People were going about their normal lives and then the flood took them all away.

But Jesus included the fact about Noah entering the ark and so we must conclude that it matters to the point Jesus wants to make. I think we can both agree that his remark about Noah entering the Ark isn't a throwaway phrase. Jesus mentions it because he intends to say more about his coming than "people will be caught unawares." Right?

I'm not arguing here, just thinking about it aloud. Jesus seems to be saying more than "expect the unexpected."

In Luke Jesus uses Lot to make the same point. I don't think we can say that if the citizens of Sodom were expecting the unexpected, they would have been saved. None of the citizens of Sodom expected destruction, not even Lot. He also was unaware of the destruction until the day that the Angles removed Lot from Sodom. Lot had no advanced warning and neither did he have prior warning of the event.

Can't we say that although God decided to destroy a city, in his mercy he decided to save a few people? Does Jesus mean to say, "When the son of man comes, many people will get caught in an unexpected disaster but God will save a few people?

And how will he save them? He will take them out of the way?

Just discussing.