Will you go to heaven when you die? - (or the other place)

[St. SteVen]

New topic:

What is the state of the dead in the afterlife?

On another topic this discussion below was happening. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ St. SteVen said: Everyone who passes into the afterlife is physically dead. They leave their physical body behind. Everything else goes with them into the afterlife. The dead have...

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[Behold]

New topic:

What is the state of the dead in the afterlife?

On another topic this discussion below was happening. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ St. SteVen said: Everyone who passes into the afterlife is physically dead. They leave their physical body behind. Everything else goes with them into the afterlife. The dead have...

www.christianityboard.com

Those who were never born again are in Hell, and they all believe its real, once they are in it.
The Rest are Born again, and are "seated in Heavenly places, In Christ".

 

[St. SteVen]

Some are in Hell.
The Rest are Born again.

Some?
Don't you believe in the broad and narrow ways?
If so, the majority are in hell.

Is that God's perfect plan for humankind created in His image?
Predestine the majority for eternal destruction?

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[Behold]

Some?
Don't you believe in the broad and narrow ways?
If so, the majority are in hell.

Ok........lets learn what your verses mean.

Here is the context..

Jesus said......John 14:6.........."I am THE Way...... The Truth and The Life, and no person some to The Father.....but by (through) ME">

See that?
Jesus has just defined Himself as the only means whereby a human being can come to God and God will accept them.

So, He is specially defining. "THE WAY.....to GOD... is Through ME"............as :

"The Cross of Christ"., where God and sinful man can be reunited Spiritually.

So, that is so extremely specific.........so "narrow a way".........there.

The Cross of Christ is the """"narrow Way""...to Heaven, which is explained as : Our "Faith is counted by God, as (Christ's) Righteousness." inputed to us.

See, Reader......Eternal Life......is not a period of endless time.......Its actually JESUS HIMSELF.., as He is "the Way, and the Truth, and THE LIFE".
See that "LIFE"?........that is Eternal Life.......Himself.

So, now..... what is the "broad way" that leads to Hell ? (Destruction) " ??????????

Its everything else that is not related to The Cross of Christ and Faith, and being born again.

Its, all RELGION
Its, all False Gospels
Its, all Cult Teaching


Its the message found in the mouths of Hellbound people who say,...>>"oh, there are many paths to God".....and yet Jesus just told them that HE is the ONLY WAY..... = "Narrow way"........= Just ONE.

Predestine the majority for eternal destruction?

The idea that a person is predestined to become a Christian or to not become one....is a Theological Lie that is sold by a Cult that is titled.... "Hyper Calvinism".

God does not predestine anyone for Hell or for Heaven.
What God has offered is : The "" Free Gift of Salvation""" WHO is Jesus's Sacrifice on The Cross... as the only Way to become a Son-Daughter of God as a "new creation in Christ".. born again.

Its """Gods will that all would BELIEVE in Jesus, whom God sent""""...........but God wont force you... He will only offer the Gift of Salvation for YOU to decide to accept or not.
And this way.......after a person dies........they can't Blame God for Their Choice.., as they DECIDED.

Reader = YOU are responsible for what you BELIEVE.

See, the Eternal Question that God is asking YOU even now....is....>"What did you do with MY SON".., "did you believe.....trust and become born again on earth before you died........ or did you NOT.""

So, if "NOT" then there is a specific place waiting for you, after you die a Christ rejector, never born again.
And if your answer is..... "Yes i did trust in Christ, and God forgave my SIN and gave me the new birth in Christ'".. then there is a place for you after you die as a Born again Believer.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Not even close……sorry. You are barking up the wrong tree….your version doesn’t hold water….
I know what I know…and it’s nothing like what you claim to know…..please don’t hold your breath waiting for me to change my mind…..you’ll turn blue.

How are you going with "until"...both Paul and Christ use it concerning the same Gentile Times. Keep searching!

 

[BarneyFife]

More lies and disinformation. Thanks.

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Hey, that's no way to talk about thorough explanations of stuff that isn't taught in the Bible.

 

[BarneyFife]

Some?
Don't you believe in the broad and narrow ways?
If so, the majority are in hell.

Is that God's perfect plan for humankind created in His image?
Predestine the majority for eternal destruction?

[

AHA!!

I knew this this UR stuff was a cousin to hyper-Calvinism. It predestines everyone to salvation.

But that still doesn't make sense to me because it makes the suffering of probation meaningless—which you've admitted, in the past, relies on something indistinguishable from blind faith, at least, to my mind.

(I'm just trying to get my religious boxes in order.)

 

[Wick Stick]

St. SteVen said:
There is another view on this. Born of water = natural childbirth.

The context is discussing physical and spiritual life. Thus the comparisons. Birth and rebirth.

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That helps me understand the argument better, but I still don't think I buy it. The very next thing that happens after Jesus gives Nicodemus a short sermon is...

After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

...baptism. That's also in the context here.

 

[St. SteVen]

I knew this this UR stuff was a cousin to hyper-Calvinism. It predestines everyone to salvation.

I suppose that should be the other way around. Universalism predates hyper-Calvinism.

The main Patristic supporters of the apokatastasis theory, such as Bardaisan, Clement, Origin, Didymus, St. Anthony, St. Pamphilus Martyr, Methodius, St. Macrina, St. Gregory of Nyssa (and probably the two other Cappadocians), St. Evagrius Ponticus, Diodore of Tarsus, Theodore of Mopsuestia, St. John of Jerusalem, Rufinus, St. Jerome and St. Augustine (at least initially) … Cassian, St. Issac of Nineveh, St. John of Dalyatha, Ps. Dionysius the Areopagite, probably St. Maximus the Confessor, up to John the Scot Eriugena, and many others, grounded their Christian doctrine of apokatastasis first of all in the Bible.
— Ramelli, Christian Doctrine, 11.

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[St. SteVen]

...baptism. That's also in the context here.

Agree.
I think all the views we discussed should remain on the table for further investigation at some point.

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[St. SteVen]

So, this is the Holy Spirit giving the "new birth" to the Believer's Spirit as "born again", as a "new Creation in Christ".

Its not connected to Water Baptism

Water Baptism, is just water.
It has no spiritual power.

Another point we can agree on.

Who are you and what have you done with @Behold ???

I view baptism as a religious ceremony.
A religious ceremony is an outward demonstration of an inward reality. (or should be)
Which is why infant baptism is on shaky ground.

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