Will you go to heaven when you die? - (or the other place)

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St. SteVen

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Behold

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Those who were never born again are in Hell, and they all believe its real, once they are in it.
The Rest are Born again, and are "seated in Heavenly places, In Christ".
 

St. SteVen

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Some are in Hell.
The Rest are Born again.
Some?
Don't you believe in the broad and narrow ways?
If so, the majority are in hell.

Is that God's perfect plan for humankind created in His image?
Predestine the majority for eternal destruction?

[
 

Behold

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Some?
Don't you believe in the broad and narrow ways?
If so, the majority are in hell.


Ok........lets learn what your verses mean.

Here is the context..

Jesus said......John 14:6.........."I am THE Way...... The Truth and The Life, and no person some to The Father.....but by (through) ME">

See that?
Jesus has just defined Himself as the only means whereby a human being can come to God and God will accept them.

So, He is specially defining. "THE WAY.....to GOD... is Through ME"............as :

"The Cross of Christ"., where God and sinful man can be reunited Spiritually.

So, that is so extremely specific.........so "narrow a way".........there.

The Cross of Christ is the """"narrow Way""...to Heaven, which is explained as : Our "Faith is counted by God, as (Christ's) Righteousness." inputed to us.

See, Reader......Eternal Life......is not a period of endless time.......Its actually JESUS HIMSELF.., as He is "the Way, and the Truth, and THE LIFE".
See that "LIFE"?........that is Eternal Life.......Himself.

So, now..... what is the "broad way" that leads to Hell ? (Destruction) " ??????????

Its everything else that is not related to The Cross of Christ and Faith, and being born again.

Its, all RELGION
Its, all False Gospels
Its, all Cult Teaching


Its the message found in the mouths of Hellbound people who say,...>>"oh, there are many paths to God".....and yet Jesus just told them that HE is the ONLY WAY..... = "Narrow way"........= Just ONE.


Predestine the majority for eternal destruction?

The idea that a person is predestined to become a Christian or to not become one....is a Theological Lie that is sold by a Cult that is titled.... "Hyper Calvinism".

God does not predestine anyone for Hell or for Heaven.
What God has offered is : The "" Free Gift of Salvation""" WHO is Jesus's Sacrifice on The Cross... as the only Way to become a Son-Daughter of God as a "new creation in Christ".. born again.

Its """Gods will that all would BELIEVE in Jesus, whom God sent""""...........but God wont force you... He will only offer the Gift of Salvation for YOU to decide to accept or not.
And this way.......after a person dies........they can't Blame God for Their Choice.., as they DECIDED.

Reader = YOU are responsible for what you BELIEVE.

See, the Eternal Question that God is asking YOU even now....is....>"What did you do with MY SON".., "did you believe.....trust and become born again on earth before you died........ or did you NOT.""

So, if "NOT" then there is a specific place waiting for you, after you die a Christ rejector, never born again.
And if your answer is..... "Yes i did trust in Christ, and God forgave my SIN and gave me the new birth in Christ'".. then there is a place for you after you die as a Born again Believer.
 
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Hiddenthings

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Not even close……sorry. You are barking up the wrong tree….your version doesn’t hold water….
I know what I know…and it’s nothing like what you claim to know…..please don’t hold your breath waiting for me to change my mind…..you’ll turn blue.
How are you going with "until"...both Paul and Christ use it concerning the same Gentile Times. Keep searching!
 

BarneyFife

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Some?
Don't you believe in the broad and narrow ways?
If so, the majority are in hell.

Is that God's perfect plan for humankind created in His image?
Predestine the majority for eternal destruction?

[

AHA!!

I knew this this UR stuff was a cousin to hyper-Calvinism. It predestines everyone to salvation.

But that still doesn't make sense to me because it makes the suffering of probation meaningless—which you've admitted, in the past, relies on something indistinguishable from blind faith, at least, to my mind.

(I'm just trying to get my religious boxes in order.)

strs
 
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Wick Stick

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St. SteVen said:
There is another view on this. Born of water = natural childbirth.

The context is discussing physical and spiritual life. Thus the comparisons. Birth and rebirth.

[
That helps me understand the argument better, but I still don't think I buy it. The very next thing that happens after Jesus gives Nicodemus a short sermon is...

After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

...baptism. That's also in the context here.
 
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St. SteVen

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I knew this this UR stuff was a cousin to hyper-Calvinism. It predestines everyone to salvation.
I suppose that should be the other way around. Universalism predates hyper-Calvinism.

The main Patristic supporters of the apokatastasis theory, such as Bardaisan, Clement, Origin, Didymus, St. Anthony, St. Pamphilus Martyr, Methodius, St. Macrina, St. Gregory of Nyssa (and probably the two other Cappadocians), St. Evagrius Ponticus, Diodore of Tarsus, Theodore of Mopsuestia, St. John of Jerusalem, Rufinus, St. Jerome and St. Augustine (at least initially) … Cassian, St. Issac of Nineveh, St. John of Dalyatha, Ps. Dionysius the Areopagite, probably St. Maximus the Confessor, up to John the Scot Eriugena, and many others, grounded their Christian doctrine of apokatastasis first of all in the Bible.
— Ramelli, Christian Doctrine, 11.

[
 
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St. SteVen

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So, this is the Holy Spirit giving the "new birth" to the Believer's Spirit as "born again", as a "new Creation in Christ".

Its not connected to Water Baptism

Water Baptism, is just water.
It has no spiritual power.
Another point we can agree on.

Who are you and what have you done with @Behold ???

I view baptism as a religious ceremony.
A religious ceremony is an outward demonstration of an inward reality. (or should be)
Which is why infant baptism is on shaky ground.

[
 
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St. SteVen

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- What is heaven?

- Is that where we go when we die?

- Do unbelievers go to hell instead?

- Will there still be a heaven during the Millennium?

- Will there still be a heaven after the new heavens and earth are created?

[
 

Behold

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- What is heaven?

God's Home and His Kingdom of Light.

- Is that where we go when we die?

Born again Christians can't go to Hell.


- Do unbelievers go to hell instead?

All who are not born again, have died "in their sins".. This means they have committed the sin of dying never forgiven.
That is the "unpardonable sin".
So, this means they died "damned", under God's wrath... (John 3:36)... and Hell is just the beginning of the end result of dying as a Christ rejector, never born again on earth.


- Will there still be a heaven during the Millennium?

Yes.

- Will there still be a heaven after the new heavens and earth are created?

Yes.
 

Behold

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Because they are already in Heaven.

1.) "One with God"

2.) "In Christ"

3.) "seated in heavenly places".


Let me show you something...

The Term "born again".......means that a person has become a "NEW CREATION" (Spiritually) ""In Christ.""

They have become 'ONE with God".......who is now their Heavenly Father.....whereas before He was not.

Q.) So who was their spiritual father before they were born again by God?

A.) The Devil.

Jesus said........."you are of YOUR FATHER........the Devil".......and he's not just talking to the Pharasees......>He's talking to ALL unbeleivers.
And that is why a unbeliever LOVES TO SIN........ as they are doing this..."And the LUSTS OF YOUR FATHER.... (the Devil) you shall do".

See that?

So, to be born again......means you have changed Spiritual Fathers., and if you are never born again on Earth, then Satan remains your Spiritual Father after you die, and that is why you go to Hell......as "Hell was created for the Devil and HIS angels".....and that includes all His spiritual children who were never born again, by ANOTHER Spiritual Father...= God.
 

Aunty Jane

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God's Home and His Kingdom of Light.
God’s Kingdom is not well understood in Christendom....heaven is indeed “God’s dwelling place” (1 Kings 8:29) but his Kingdom has a purpose that most are completely oblivious to....

In Isa 9:6, it speaks about a “government” on the “shoulders” of the “Prince of Peace”.
Like all governments, it has structure and assigned positions. It’s purpose was brought about by the sin of Adam and his wife as there was no basis for this government until that happened.

God’s Kingdom is the means by which Christ brings the redeemed human race back into reconciliation with their God. He has 144,000 members of this “body” who will assist Jesus in his role as High Priest and Commander. (Rev 20:6; Rev 14:1-5)
Born again Christians can't go to Hell.
You have no idea what it means to be “born again” if you think it is something that takes place in imperfect flesh. The “sealing” of his anointed ones is what they first receive, which is a token or guarantee of their choosing. They are “born again” at their resurrection to heaven, being given a “new birth” in a new “body”/, as spiritual sons of God.
That resurrection was not to take place until Christ’s return as Paul taught. (1 Thess 4:13-17)
All who are not born again, have died "in their sins".. This means they have committed the sin of dying never forgiven.
That is the "unpardonable sin".
So, this means they died "damned", under God's wrath... (John 3:36)... and Hell is just the beginning of the end result of dying as a Christ rejector, never born again on earth.
Absolute rubbish! What about those who were born and raised in nations and religions down through the centuries, where the true God was completely unknown? They were never “born again” according to your definition, but according to God’s justice and mercy, he will resurrect them and educate them, and then judge them. (John 5:28-29)

Your god has a very distorted sense of justice...and extends no mercy to those who lived and died in ignorance. You can’t break a law that you never received....or worship a god that was not known to you.
To these questions....Will there still be a heaven during the Millennium?

Will there still be a heaven after the new heavens and earth are created?
You answered....
“Yes”
Heaven will always be the abode of God, and it will always be the dwelling place of God’s spiritual children....
Earth will go back to God’s original purpose (Rev 21:2-4)....inhabited by obedient earthly children as he meant us to be in the first place, enjoying his creation in paradise conditions forever.

God’s purpose for his material creation will never mean that he has to destroy the literal earth and heaven in order to have his will reestablished on the earth.

The “new heavens and new earth” are new conditions on a cleansed earth.....as there is no defect in God’s original creation....it was satan and his angels who created the need for a new earthly society because of corrupting the ones who descended from Adam.....making human society on earth something abhorrent to God, and spreading false worship into the whole earth......but “the earth abides forever” as we are told. (Eccl 1:4; Psalm 104:5)

The “new heavens” is the “Kingdom of God”, ruling mankind from heaven as we were meant to have from the beginning. The rebellion took God’s rulership away from the earth and so he gave into the hands of the “god” whom they chose to obey. (Luke 4:5-7) God’s purpose was served by an object lesson that is still not understood by most “Christians”. “Heaven and hell” are all they seem to know....and it makes no sense at all.

Jesus came to restore what was lost...and to rehabilitate the obedient ones who want God’s kingdom to rule them, rather than bickering over the political situations of their nations....they are supporting corrupt human governments instead of aligning themselves with the only righteous Kingdom that will stand forever.
We are told to be “NO PART” of that world. (John 18:36)
 

Behold

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God’s Kingdom is not well understood in Christendom.

God's Kingdom is a spiritual Kingdom, and the only way to enter it is to be born again into it.

This is why Jesus told us. = "you MUST BE born again"... and only the Holy Spirit can cause this Spiritual Birth, regarding the Believer.

God’s Kingdom is the means by which Christ brings the redeemed human race back into reconciliation with their God.

What you posted is not true., as usual.

The Truth is......God brings a sinner back into reconcilation with Himself based ONLY on The Cross of Christ.

A.) SINS must be forgiven before a person is able to become reconciled to God, and that means The Cross of Christ where Jesus has paid for sin is HOW and WHY.

See........Its your sin, that separates you from God... And Jesus's Cross is where He shed His blood and died for YOUR SIN.
So this is what God offers you as the only way ......John 14:6... to be reconciled to God.

You have no idea what it means to be “born again”

Being born again....simple means that once the person's SIN is forgiven by the Blood and Death of Jesus, ... God then "imputes righteouenss" to them,..("Justification by Faith")... "By Jesus sacrifice many are made righteousess"....... and then God's Holy Spirit causes a NEW BIRTH of their Spirit, and they become a "new creation".. "IN Christ"... born again = Spiritually.
That is how you enter the : KOG.

What about those who were born and raised in nations and religions down through the centuries, where the true God was completely unknown?

If you had any real faith in God, then you would not have any problem understanding and believing that Almighty God is able to reach everyone, everywhere, with the Gospel.....and He didnt need Internet or a cell phone to do it, 1000 yrs ago, or tomorrow.
You limit God becaues your view of God is limited to your vain opinions and your cult's demonic theology.
= Same as it ever was......


Your god has a very distorted sense of justice.

God judges Sin.
How do you know?
Because our sin nailed Jesus to The Cross.

Interestingly enough.........a Christ rejector, who is never born again......is not Judged for their sin, in eternity in Hell......they are judged for not being forgiven all their sin while they were on earth.

Jesus came to restore what was lost...and to rehabilitate the obedient ones

Jesus didnt come to find obedient sinners,..... and "all have sinned, there is none righteous, no not one".

A.) ""Jesus came to SAVE SINNERS"...

AA.) "While we were YET SINNERS,.. Christ died for us"...
 

Aunty Jane

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God's Kingdom is a spiritual Kingdom, and the only way to enter it is to be born again into it.
When Adam was created, the Kingdom of God (the domain of his rulership) encompassed all intelligent creation which were subject to him…….this included his angels, one of which defected from him and made himself “satan the devil”….not a name so much as a descriptive title for one who opposes God and is a slanderer and a murderer.
He was not created to be any of those things, but chose of his own free will to defect, for his own selfish reasons….which had to include us, otherwise he would have no worshippers to make him a god. His aim was to take their worship away from God, and to give it to him instead…..to replace him in their lives.

Was he successful? (Matt 7:13-14)
This is why Jesus told us. = "you MUST BE born again"... and only the Holy Spirit can cause this Spiritual Birth, regarding the Believer.
Being “born again” is something that happens after death, not something that happens in the flesh.
What is the purpose of being “born again”? What are those who are “born again” going to do in heaven?
I don’t recall you ever saying what your expectations are after gaining that inheritance.
What you posted is not true., as usual.
LOL…..and of course everything you post cannot be false, even though your posts are big on condemnation and light on Scripture. And what Scripture you do quote, shows no understanding of God’s purpose at all. Your fixation on being “born again” obscures any real purpose for it.

The Truth is......God brings a sinner back into reconcilation with Himself based ONLY on The Cross of Christ.
What then is “the cross of Christ”? It’s a symbol of his death, which alone pays for the sins of all mankind….but does it mean that all mankind are saved ? Apparently not as you gleefully assign those who don’t believe as you do, to a hell of eternal torture, as if that is the God whom Jesus came to represent to us….

There is no “hell of eternal torture”…..which would make a total mockery of God’s justice, and would cancel out his love, which Jesus said was to extend even to our enemies. (Matt 5:43-44)
Does God have a double standard?
A.) SINS must be forgiven before a person is able to become reconciled to God, and that means The Cross of Christ where Jesus has paid for sin is HOW and WHY.
”The wages of sin is death”….and so every person who has died, has paid sin’s wages. There was no higher penalty under God’s law…..death was the worst penalty a person could suffer. No penalty under God’s law involved prolonged torture.

Was sin a choice for the human race? Or was it inflicted on us without our consent?
What part does it play in the big picture, Behold?
Do you even have a big picture?
See........Its your sin, that separates you from God... And Jesus's Cross is where He shed His blood and died for YOUR SIN.
So this is what God offers you as the only way ......John 14:6... to be reconciled to God.
Nope…why would God hold us accountable for something that is not our fault, and then punish us with heinous torture for all eternity because of being born in sin? That would be like creating humans without legs and punishing them for not walking….

There are two kinds of sin according to the Scriptures….the one we inherited from Adam….and the ones we commit by choice, as a result of having sin in our members, as Paul said.
Jesus came to remove the sin we inherited from Adam…..but the sins we commit of our own free will are not automatically forgiven….yet they still have a common source. As long as we repent, we can count on God’s forgiveness. ”He remembers that we are dust”. Committing sin is a choice.
Being born again....simple means that once the person's SIN is forgiven by the Blood and Death of Jesus, ... God then "imputes righteouenss" to them,..("Justification by Faith")... "By Jesus sacrifice many are made righteousess"....... and then God's Holy Spirit causes a NEW BIRTH of their Spirit, and they become a "new creation".. "IN Christ"... born again = Spiritually.
That is how you enter the : KOG.
That is your opinion of how one enters the KOG.

You first have to understand what the KOG is, and what it’s purpose is in the big scheme of things.
Its a theocratic government with rulers and priests just like the nation of Israel foreshadowed on earth.
Jesus is the High Priest in God’s arrangement and he has underpriests assisting him in its administration. (Rev 20:6; Heb 3:1) Have you ever wondered why Paul called Jesus an “apostle”?

If you had any real faith in God, then you would not have any problem understanding and believing that Almighty God is able to reach everyone, everywhere, with the Gospel.....and He didnt need Internet or a cell phone to do it, 1000 yrs ago, or tomorrow.
You limit God becaues your view of God is limited to your vain opinions and your cult's demonic theology.
= Same as it ever was......
I guess all the people in the first century didn’t need evangelizers then…? God would just implant his will into them so that they just knew the gospel without someone to preach it? (Rom 10:14-15)

The gospel was preached locally at first, but then as the good news was carried into other nations, more and more people heard the message of salvation and made their own decisions about it.
God judges Sin.
How do you know?
Because our sin nailed Jesus to The Cross.
You have that back to front….Our sin didn’t nail Jesus to anything…..he voluntarily offered his life for ours.
It was an act of love….the only way to cancel our debt.

God judges sin but he does not hold ignorant people to account. As the reader of hearts, he knows when someone has the right heart condition and will offer them salvation….though he will not force it. Jesus never forced his teachings on anyone…if they balked at what he said, he allowed them to leave and mull things over….some would come back…others not.
Interestingly enough.........a Christ rejector, who is never born again......is not Judged for their sin, in eternity in Hell......they are judged for not being forgiven all their sin while they were on earth.
What then is a “Christ rejector”? Anyone who does not accept that Jesus is the Christ will certainly not be chosen for a role in God’s Kingdom, but not all Christians are “born again”…nor do they need to be. Only those chosen for rulership and priesthood in heaven will go to there…..those who will be their subjects on earth have no need of a spiritual resurrection, as these will remain on earth, being guided back to sinless perfection as Christ’s sacrifice undoes the works of the devil. (Rev 21:2-4)

God did not put us on this earth as a training ground for heaven…..this carefully and lovingly prepared planet was designed to be our permanent home….it’s not going anywhere and neither are the humans redeemed by Christ’s sacrifice.
Jesus didnt come to find obedient sinners,..... and "all have sinned, there is none righteous, no not one".

A.) ""Jesus came to SAVE SINNERS"...

AA.) "While we were YET SINNERS,.. Christ died for us"...
Yes, he came to save, not to condemn…and he showed by his own conduct that sinners were his main target, not the self righteous Pharisees who felt no need to repent, oblivious to their own monumental sins….but the “lost sheep”….who do respond to his offer of salvation, and alter their course in life appropriately.
 

One 2 question

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- What is heaven?
A place where God sits on a throne.
- Is that where we go when we die?
For a time
- Do unbelievers go to hell instead?
The lake of fire for a time, yes
- Will there still be a heaven during the Millennium?
Yes, this is where the New Jerusalem comes down from onto this renewed planet earth.
- Will there still be a heaven after the new heavens and earth are created?

[
As it is now, so heaven will be then. God will be in heaven and on the New Earth in the New Jerusalem.

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
 
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Behold

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When Adam was created, the Kingdom of God (the domain of his rulership) encompassed all intelligent creation which were subject to him…

God gave Adam "domininon".
Adam then gave this to Satan, which is why Satan became the "god of THIS world".

Was he successful? (Matt 7:13-14)

Being “born again” is something that happens after death,

Jesus said """"you must be born again."""

He wasn't talking to the dead when He said that.....= do you realize this yet?
He was talking to you @Aunty Jane .
He was talking to humanity.
And when Hebrews 9:27 finds you, you'll find out Jesus was not kidding.


What then is “the cross of Christ”? It’s a symbol of his death, which alone pays for the sins of all mankind….but does it mean that all mankind are saved ?

The Cross of Christ is God's Salvation, that is the Sacrifice of Jesus,.. FREELY .offered to the World.

John 3:16.

So, this is a universal offer of Salvation to all who will come to God = by faith in Christ.

The Salvaiton is Free, and the Offer is universal, but the imputation-application , is RECEIIVED as "The Gift of Salvation".

God saves every BELIEVER ......one at a time.

There is no “hell of eternal torture”….

Hell is torture, and its waiting for everyone who dies, not born again......as that means you died in your sins, unforgiven, and face God as eternal Judge instead of as eternal Father.

”The wages of sin is death”….and so every person who has died, has paid sin’s wages.

Hell is where you pay the eternal wage for never being forgiven your sin, and dying in them.
This means you were not born again, and the only way to enter the KOG, is to be born again into it, while you are on earth.
You can't be born again in Hell.

Was sin a choice for the human race? Or was it inflicted on us without our consent?

Sin came to all , based on "by one man's sin". (Adam).
Adam is the fall of us all.

why would God hold us accountable for something that is not our fault,

God is willing to hold Jesus accontable for ever time you chose to commit a sin.
If you say you've never lied, or stolen, or broken a commandment, then you are a liar, and that is one more sin you will have committed.

There are two kinds of sin according to the Scriptures….the one we inherited from Adam….and the ones we commit by choice,

The NT also defines a "greater sin" and "the unpardonable sin".

You left those out because they are not found in the JW commentaries you keep "cutting and pasting" @Aunty Jane

(As usual).

That is your opinion of how one enters the KOG.

The KOG is God......its a Spiritual Kingdom. "God is A Spirit"....."Jesus is THAT Spirit".
So, to enter it, you must be born again SPIRITUALLY by the Holy Spirit, as then you become a "new Creation" "IN Christ" and have entered the KOG.


I guess all the people in the first century didn’t need evangelizers then…? God would just implant his will into them so that they just knew the gospel without someone to preach it? (Rom 10:14-15)

"Faith comes by hearing" = The Gospel.
See, you have to know what to believe to believe it.
You have to hear the Gospel, to know what it is, so that you can believe it.

You have that back to front….Our sin didn’t nail Jesus to anything….

Yes, Jesus died willingly for our Sin.
Its our sin that is being dealt with by His : '"""One time Eternal Sacrifice for Sin""""

"God hath made Jesus... to be SIN........for us".

God judges sin but he does not hold ignorant people to account.

God would not hold someone accoutable for they behavior.... who literally does not understand right from wrong.
You do understand, so you are held accountable.

What then is a “Christ rejector”?

Hell is found at the end of A CHRIST rejecting Life.

This means the person "died without Christ".
They are not 'The temple of the Holy Spirit".
This means they never trusted in Christ.....they never gave God their Faith in Christ......so, God was not able to forgive their sin and give them the "new birth" in the Spirit".

So, they can't go to heaven, and they go to the place reserved for them.

John 3:36

God did not put us on this earth as a training ground for heaven…

All our Life is a training ground.
We learn many things as we live them..

Salvation is something else.
Salvation is Jesus sacrificing Himself to God on our behalf on The Cross, so that we can be eternally forgiven, and given a Spiritual birth by the Holy Spirit....that rejoins us to God... ."Spiritually".
Adam the 1st lost this for us, and Adam the 2nd regained it as...."all who believe in Jesus (by faith) shall be Saved".

= Our "FAITH is counted by God as (Christ's) righteosness""".. imputed to the BELIEVER.......which is "THE Gift of Righteousness".

Yes, he came to save, not to condemn…

'Jesus came into the world to save SINNERS".

John 3:17