Willful Sin is simply premeditated

[robert derrick]

If the old man was crucified, how is it that he returns?

Much love!

By wilfully sinning as him again.

For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

 

[robert derrick]

Paul (the scriptures) does not make the distinction in that way, but rather that "there is a law" existing in the flesh, which is the law of sin and death.

And so once again, we see the endlessly winding road of opposition at every turn. So long as you think natural flesh has sin in it, and I say no flesh, like dust and grass, is sinful nor righteous in itself, then our cornerstones on this topic will always clash.

ANd with most people I no longer go down that fruitless road. However, with you I see a fellow mastery of doctrine, that does not repeat tiresome cliches and avoid challenges.

And so, I do promise to go down the road with you, because I enjoy the Scriptural exercise of honest disputes.

However, I would like to begin with a few questions, just to have a baseline. They all pertain to born again Christians.

1. Is the flesh any blame for us sinning with works of the flesh?

2. Can we walk as He walked and live righteously in the flesh?

3. If our flesh is made and born with sin, and we are to cleanse ourselves of filthiness of the flesh, then we are to cleanse our flesh of sin?

4. Since we are to keep our soul, spirit, and body preserved blameless, how can we keep our body blameless, with sin in the flesh?

 

[robert derrick]

You've got these ways of parsing sins, and yet the fact remains that God has provided a way out of every temptation, and you have to choose to not use it. Or to abdicate that choice by not even considering it.

When I quote Scripture, it's not my ways I've got, but God's.

And this is the case of the slayer, which shall flee thither, that he may live: Whoso killeth his neighbour ignorantly, whom he hated not in time past.

God knows the difference between premeditated murder, and unpremeditated manslaughter.

So if what you mean by "not wilfull sin" is that you close your eyes to your ability to not do it, pretend you have no control, then that would be accurate, but that's not Scriptural doctrine.

Misphrasing the argument into something else. You're the only one speaking of pretence. Stick to the points made, without making up something else.

We are admonished, if we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. If we walk in the Spirit, we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. That which you know to be good, if you don't do it, that is sin. Do you realize it is sin to not be walking in the Spirit?

Yes. Willful sinning is no walk in the Spirit at all. Sinning by cause shows a walk not yet perfected.

But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, Keeping yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

This is what I mean when I talk about sin being so much more than some describe, and that any minimizing of sin is error.

Sin begins in the spirit and is fulfilled in the flesh.

We are to cleanse both our spirit and our flesh.

And so, you believe we can live righteously and walk as He walked on earth, enduring all temptation without sinning?

 

[robert derrick]

I don't believe you understand what I'm saying. It's the opposite.

Much love!

You're trying to have Paul speaking of OT sacrifices for the errors of the people, when He is only speaking of the one NT sacrifice of the Lamb to wash away all sinning.

Scripture is not warning Christians not to turn to OT sacrifices, but not to turn to old sinning.

Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Paul is referring to unrighteous Christians, that do not believe unto righteousness, but only have faith to sin less in Christian religion, not to be sinless in Christ.

OT sacrifices have nothing to do with the exhortation in Heb 6 nor 10. It's all about Christians being even more condemned for sinning, than OT saints, who had not tasted of Christ and power of the Spirit.

 

[robert derrick]

Have you in fact looked at the words there like I've recommended?

Much love!

Yes. Paul is not warning against relying on OT sacrifices, to Christians claiming faith in the blood of the Lamb.

There is no more sacrifice, is the one sacrifice of Jesus. He does not say there are no more sacrifices of bulls and goats, as you try to teach it.

 

[robert derrick]

You are not sinless, without fault or defect, flawless

Now that would be terrible indeed! Someone being and living just like Jesus on earth? The unbelieving Jews would be howling again.

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

, 100% of the time exactly as Jesus is. Period.

Of course not! Being exactly like Jesus? That would make us exactly like Jesus! Self righteous and proud! Who in the world wants to be exactly like Jesus? Much less all the time!

He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

You believe in SELF which is not unto righteousness.

Of course it is! A man believing from the heart unto righteousness, is all self!

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

The ridiculousness of this condemnation of being exactly like the man Jesus, faultless, and believing unto righteousness, is now too obvious.

Because some does not believe we can live righteously and walk as Jesus walked, does not mean no man can believe unto Jesus' righteousness from the heart, and do so.

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Your unbelief, is your's alone, and your attempt to condemn the righteous, is also your's alone.

You are terribly deceived!

Talk about decieved. Declaring openly that believing unto righteousness is pride, and then preaching that no man can possibly walk as Jesus walked on earth.

The absurdity of it, is knowing that I ever debated with such pompous unbelief.

No more. All the fair speeches and endless wrangling over words of faith alone or not alone, is over.

The faith of Jesus that saves, is only that belief of the heart from God the Father, that His born again sons, can indeed live faultless, righteously, and with pure conscience walk as His beloved Son walked as a man on earth.

Only to them that receive that faith of the Son, are then given His power to become His sons, with His divine nature to live as His sons, even as the Son in the flesh.

You are not sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, 100% of the time exactly as Jesus is. Period. You believe in SELF which is not unto righteousness. You are terribly deceived!

It is now finally understood how so completely lame this stuff truly is.

The world could not condemn the righteous any better. No doubt Cain said much the same to Abel, when he 'talked' with him.

And to think that I actually spent much time arguing over this tripe. Lesson learned.

Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

This has a whole new meaning to me. If we allow ourselves to be drawn into such plainly foolish arguments of unbelief, then we become as big of fools as the unbeliever.

If someone doesn't believe it's even possible to walk as He walked, then there's nothing more to say. There is no arguing with unbelief.

 

[ScottA]

And so once again, we see the endlessly winding road of opposition at every turn. So long as you think natural flesh has sin in it, and I say no flesh, like dust and grass, is sinful nor righteous in itself, then our cornerstones on this topic will always clash.

ANd with most people I no longer go down that fruitless road. However, with you I see a fellow mastery of doctrine, that does not repeat tiresome cliches and avoid challenges.

And so, I do promise to go down the road with you, because I enjoy the Scriptural exercise of honest disputes.

However, I would like to begin with a few questions, just to have a baseline. They all pertain to born again Christians.

1. Is the flesh any blame for us sinning with works of the flesh?

2. Can we walk as He walked and live righteously in the flesh?

3. If our flesh is made and born with sin, and we are to cleanse ourselves of filthiness of the flesh, then we are to cleanse our flesh of sin?

4. Since we are to keep our soul, spirit, and body preserved blameless, how can we keep our body blameless, with sin in the flesh?

Unless we are born [again] of the spirit of God, our father is the Devil. This is why Jesus came.

To understand, consider what is said regarding "the man of sin is revealed."

Since every man is a man of sin, and every man is revealed-- is that man of sin he who is born of the spirit of God which is not seen like the wind, or is it that man of flesh? You know the answer, and you also know that I have spoken the truth of scripture. But I will ask you another question: Since it is written that we "not walk according to the flesh", who is it therefore that goes out of his way (if that way is the way of the Spirit) that defends the body of flesh, he who is born of the flesh or he who is born of the spirit? And who is it who goes out of his way to defend the spirit, he who is born of the spirit, or he who is born of the flesh?

It is for this that Jesus warned, "Therefore take heed that the light which is in you is not darkness."

 

[robert derrick]

Unless we are born [again] of the spirit of God, our father is the Devil. This is why Jesus came.

So as not to get sidetracked, I'll hold this in the hopper with the others things. Once the questions are answered, then we have a baseline to move on with.

But I will ask you another question: Since it is written that we "not walk according to the flesh", who is it therefore that goes out of his way (if that way is the way of the Spirit) that defends the body of flesh,

Since I've learned your doctrinal manner of speech, and your habit of answering all questions by your doctrine, then I'll take this as a yes for question 1, as though not believing in sin nature of flesh and blood, is a 'defence of the flesh'.

1. Is the flesh any blame for us sinning with works of the flesh?

Unless you say no to question 1.

he who is born of the flesh or he who is born of the spirit? And who is it who goes out of his way to defend the spirit, he who is born of the spirit, or he who is born of the flesh?

So far, I would agree with the idea of the spiritual man defends walking after the Spirit, and the natural man defends walking after the flesh.

If that is a yes to answer 2, that them walking righteously as Jesus walked, will also defend it against the naysayers.

If you agree, I would like you to say so. I'll rephrase it: 2. Is it possible for us to walk righteously in our flesh, as He walked and lived in the days of His flesh.

This isn't a trick question, but is fundamental to the first principles of the gospel and doctrine of Christ.

3. If our flesh is made and born with sin, and we are to cleanse ourselves of filthiness of the flesh, then we are to cleanse our flesh of sin?

4. Since we are to keep our soul, spirit, and body preserved blameless, how can we keep our body blameless, with sin in the flesh?

These are hypotheticals to answer as you like.

 

[ScottA]

Since I've learned your doctrinal manner of speech, and your habit of answering all questions by your doctrine, then I'll take this as a yes for question 1, as though not believing in sin nature of flesh and blood, is a 'defence of the flesh'.

1. Is the flesh any blame for us sinning with works of the flesh?

Unless you say no to question 1.

You are missing the point, or simply trying to force the outcome you want.

I answered this, saying: "Unless we are born [again] of the spirit of God, our father is the Devil. This is why Jesus came." because, yes, the flesh is condemned to die.

Then comes the end, the flesh returns to the dust and is dissolved; while "the mind" (if that is how you put it) is raised up in the spirit, some to everlasting life, and some to everlasting contempt.

So far, I would agree with the idea of the spiritual man defends walking after the Spirit, and the natural man defends walking after the flesh.

If that is a yes to answer 2, that them walking righteously as Jesus walked, will also defend it against the naysayers.

If you agree, I would like you to say so. I'll rephrase it: 2. Is it possible for us to walk righteously in our flesh, as He walked and lived in the days of His flesh.

This isn't a trick question, but is fundamental to the first principles of the gospel and doctrine of Christ.

3. If our flesh is made and born with sin, and we are to cleanse ourselves of filthiness of the flesh, then we are to cleanse our flesh of sin?

4. Since we are to keep our soul, spirit, and body preserved blameless, how can we keep our body blameless, with sin in the flesh?

These are hypotheticals to answer as you like.

Again, you are apparently trying to force the outcome to favor the flesh, which no, is not raised up as Christ was during His time between His resurrection from the dead and His ascension. We who are His "were" crucified with Him and also raised up in His ascension, but the raising of the flesh was only a foreshadow in the flesh of what was to be in the spirit--just as all of creation is but a mere foreshadowing. To the contrary, the Son is life just as the Spirit is life.

As for your #2 question, we can and do only walk righteously in the flesh in Christ, while we "are alive and remain" in the world. Which is not to say that the flesh is without sin, but remaining in the flesh and in Christ, we are no longer under sin, for we have died to sin having given our flesh over to Christ who is without sin. Therefore, it is written, "It is no longer I who lives, but Christ who lives in me."

#3 The cleansing of the flesh is death. Therefore we must also be born again of the spirit of God.

#4 We keep nothing, but lose everything. And if we have done so for Christ's sake-- this is life.

 

[Gilligan]

This whole idea of "willful" and "unwilling" sin, I don't get it.

Since Paul speaks of it as proof of not being washed in the blood of Jesus, then it is important to understand and eschew it's evil.

As a Christian, when are you not able to not sin?

When we wilfully want to. It's no more a matter of ability, but willing lust.

Even when something sudden happens, you don't have to react from flesh, do you?

No, unless you want to.

God promised to make a way out of every temptation,

Yes, unless you don't want a way out.

so I'm thinking that we are never committing an "unwilling" sin.

Much love!

It's not about willing vs unwilling, but wilfully vs. unplanned. One is a matter of commitment to lust and purposely rejecting the help of the Spirit of grace to overcome temptation, and the other is a show of not being pure of heart and blameless.

Willfulness is not just willing, but determined willingness and lust. "I'm gonna get drunk tonight", is not the same as finding you have had enough to drink, and need to stop. "I'm gonna get laid tonight", is not the same as finding yourself drawn to the wrong bed and making an exit.

I find it interesting that Christians get caught up in doctrinal ideas so much, that they lose sense of real life. Go to any nonbeliever without a doctrinal sword to hone, and ask them if there is a difference between wilfully doing something, and doing something on the spur of the moment, and they'll look at you funny like your weird, and say, "Yeah, well, I mean like duh."

Christians only debate over normal sense of things in Scripture, as though God doesn't make normal sense, in order to change what He is saying into something else, In the case of wilfully, some Christians try to make it mean something else, because they 'doctrinally' want to find a way out of ever not being washed in the blood of the Lamb. Instead of just repenting of wilfully sinning again at times, they want to doctrinally cover themselves while doing so. They say things like, it's only if it is a daily practise, or some such rot. As though willfully sinning isn't being 'practised' at the time of doing so.

And so, they resort to arguing about what is, is. Whenever we see someone arguing like that against all sense, then we know they are hiding something they want to justify.

 

[robert derrick]

You are missing the point, or simply trying to force the outcome you want.

I answered this, saying: "Unless we are born [again] of the spirit of God, our father is the Devil. This is why Jesus came." because, yes, the flesh is condemned to die.

Ok, so you teach condemning the flesh for sinning with the flesh. Just in your unique doctrinal way.

Flesh and blood is made to naturally die, like the grass.

Then comes the end, the flesh returns to the dust and is dissolved; while "the mind" (if that is how you put it) is raised up in the spirit, some to everlasting life, and some to everlasting contempt.

Not me. The dead body is raised up to live with soul and mind again. It's called the resurrection of the dead, both the just and the unjust.

Again, you are apparently trying to force the outcome to favor the flesh,

Funny. I don't favor the flesh, nor judge it righteous. The flesh simply has nothing to do with sinning nor doing righteousness, but only in being used by us one way or the other. The natural body is a living machine, that only God can create.

And it's not even AI. It doesn't think and do anything on it's own.

which no, is not raised up as Christ was during His time between His resurrection from the dead and His ascension. We who are His "were" crucified with Him and also raised up in His ascension, but the raising of the flesh was only a foreshadow in the flesh of what was to be in the spirit--just as all of creation is but a mere foreshadowing. To the contrary, the Son is life just as the Spirit is life.

Off point again, that I will be glad to address after trying to answer the questions.

As for your #2 question, we can and do only walk righteously in the flesh in Christ, while we "are alive and remain" in the world.

Ok. I am right about you brother, in that you don't teach a doctrine leading to more ungodliness.

Did you know that there are OSAS people on this site, who don't even believe they can do and walk righteously as Jesus?

That is unbelief, and not the faith of Jesus in the heart, that saves the soul.

Which is not to say that the flesh is without sin, but remaining in the flesh and in Christ, we are no longer under sin, for we have died to sin having given our flesh over to Christ who is without sin. Therefore, it is written, "It is no longer I who lives, but Christ who lives in me."

Other than sin being in flesh tissues, and blood platelets, amen brother.

#3 The cleansing of the flesh is death. Therefore we must also be born again of the spirit of God.

If you are referring to mortal death, then it is not addressing the question while alive on earth.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

And so, if our flesh is made and born with sin, and we are to cleanse ourselves of filthiness of the flesh, then we are to cleanse our flesh of sin?

More specifically, how do we cleanse ourselves of filthiness of the flesh? Is that not cleansing our flesh of sin?

#4 We keep nothing, but lose everything. And if we have done so for Christ's sake-- this is life.

I see your point, that we keep nothing back from God, that our live might be hid in Christ.

However, we have our part to keep ourselves from sinning by His grace.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

We keep our bodies from sinning.

So, 4. Since we are to keep our soul, spirit, and body preserved blameless, how can we keep our body blameless, while sin is still in the flesh?

More specifically again, how do we keep blameless, that sin is still in?

If lust is still in the heart, then our soul and spirit is not blameless. Our soul is only kept blameless, without lust in the heart.

And so, our body is only kept blameless, without sin in the flesh. Correct?

 

[marks]

I find it interesting that Christians get caught up in doctrinal ideas so much, that they lose sense of real life. Go to any nonbeliever without a doctrinal sword to hone, and ask them if there is a difference between wilfully doing something, and doing something on the spur of the moment, and they'll look at you funny like your weird, and say, "Yeah, well, I mean like duh."

Bringing humanly 'wisdom' as a means to understand the Bible won't work. And the opposite of wilful isn't unplanned, its unwillful.

Even a spur of the moment sin is wilful, because you have the power to not. This is sophistry.

But, if you put the passage into it's context, there is a distinction in the Law that this aligns to. But alas, those who cannot rightly divide the Word often tend to blend the covenants, mixing up the different terms, importing old covenant into new.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Instead of just repenting of wilfully sinning again at times, they want to doctrinally cover themselves while doing so.

Really?? Like you know the hearts of others? I don't think so! And this is you answer to those who disagree? No thank you!

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

Not me. The dead body is raised up to live with soul and mind again. It's called the resurrection of the dead, both the just and the unjust.

One thing at a time is best:

You misunderstand. The resurrection of the dead [biblically] occurs separate from the body of flesh, as the flesh returns to the dust. The language is merely made in parable--an illustration or word picture of comparison for young minds.

“Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”

Likewise, the statement, "the flesh profits nothing", does not refer to the flesh attaining nothing--although it should actually be understood to mean it does not rise, for the death of the flesh does indeed profit toward salvation, "even death on a cross." Still, "profits nothing" does mean nothing in reference to itself. Therefore, what is actually being said, is that it is not the flesh that receives the profit, but the spirit.

 

[ScottA]

Funny. I don't favor the flesh, nor judge it righteous. The flesh simply has nothing to do with sinning nor doing righteousness, but only in being used by us one way or the other. The natural body is a living machine, that only God can create.

And it's not even AI. It doesn't think and do anything on it's own.

Good--this is a start on fully understanding that the flesh and all of creation are only made in "image". Meaning, without actual substance as we think of substance, as all matter is rather light and energy from God--spoken, as a form of media.

Even so, the word from God is that the sons of Adam (of his kind) are not born out of the "very good" creation of God, but born out of the "fall", meaning conceived and born out of sin. As it is written, "of your father the devil."

After which being born again rather of the spirit of God, is the salvation plan of God. But do not consider that "cleansing" of the flesh actually means salvation or glorification of the flesh--for it is not cleansed with water, but with fire, leaving no flesh to inherit the kingdom of God. Thus, water baptism is only to repentance, while only baptism with the Holy Spirit is unto everlasting life. Raised up in the spirit, means raised up in the spirit--not the flesh.

 

[ScottA]

Ok. I am right about you brother, in that you don't teach a doctrine leading to more ungodliness.

Did you know that there are OSAS people on this site, who don't even believe they can do and walk righteously as Jesus?

That is unbelief, and not the faith of Jesus in the heart, that saves the soul.

You miss the point: "The flesh profits nothing."

Why do you defend the flesh when God has condemned it to death?

Moreover, do you not understand that to think the flesh can do righteously--is anti-Christ--to sit "as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God?" On the contrary, people do not walk righteously except in the spirit and in Christ, the only One who has done and can or could do righteously.

 

[ScottA]

If you are referring to mortal death, then it is not addressing the question while alive on earth.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

And so, if our flesh is made and born with sin, and we are to cleanse ourselves of filthiness of the flesh, then we are to cleanse our flesh of sin?

More specifically, how do we cleanse ourselves of filthiness of the flesh? Is that not cleansing our flesh of sin?

No, but rather the word is not of the flesh, but of living in the flesh after salvation. Still, the two are separate by definition, even though we "remain."

But what does it mean to remain? It means, we like Christ, though being raised up in the spirit, remain in the service of God in the lowly places of Christ, just as Jesus who descended into the lowly places of this world for the sake of the salvation of many. Yet, He--not we, are God, in this same setting. It is not we who attain righteousness, but Jesus, in whom we also attain it--not in ourselves, but in Him. This is the progression of our righteousness according to His prayer for us, that we should be One--but One in Him, not in or of ourselves.

 

[ScottA]

I see your point, that we keep nothing back from God, that our live might be hid in Christ.

However, we have our part to keep ourselves from sinning by His grace.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

We keep our bodies from sinning.

So, 4. Since we are to keep our soul, spirit, and body preserved blameless, how can we keep our body blameless, while sin is still in the flesh?

More specifically again, how do we keep blameless, that sin is still in?

If lust is still in the heart, then our soul and spirit is not blameless. Our soul is only kept blameless, without lust in the heart.

And so, our body is only kept blameless, without sin in the flesh. Correct?

I've answered this above, but as for the heart:

We who are saved and born again of the spirit are broken in heart, and if remaining, we remain in suffering as the broken hearted. It is in this way that even Jesus, taking on the sins of this world and giving His body to the church which is not without sin, carries it without blame or condemnation. Not because sin does not exist even in His members (of which we are), but because giving over His body to us, we both die to sin, each taking up our own cross as it were. But I say "were" because that is what is written of when death came regarding all sin. Thus, we are not to be confused regarding the body of Christ and sin after the Head has risen, or the would-be timing of "but each one in his own order" until the end--as the end is the end, and the timing is not ours, but His.

But if we say these things are our doing--we do so by the spirit of anti-Christ, which was at work even then.

 

[robert derrick]

“Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”

Let the spiritually dead bury the dead bodies of others, who care more for family and friends, than following the Lord.

Likewise, the statement, "the flesh profits nothing", does not refer to the flesh attaining nothing--

The flesh profits nothing in this life. It is the soul that matters most.

The flesh does not attain to the resurrection of the dead, we do. We attain to inheriting the kingdom of God,w ith the resurrected immortal body from the grave.

All resurrection is Scripture is of dead bodies.

although it should actually be understood to mean it does not rise,

The dead do rise. You are siding with Sadducees.

In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.

Even the unbelievers in the resurrection of the dead, knew it was the dead bodies that would rise from the dust of the earth. They didn't believe Daniel nor Jesus, but they at least acknowledged what they were talking about.

For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

You need to address the fact that our forerunner is resurrected with His old dead body, and our resurrection will be in the likeness of His.

Those other kind of resurrection is made up and disingenuous. It's the same as those that prophecy another kind of Millennium on earth.

for the death of the flesh does indeed profit toward salvation, "even death on a cross."

The flesh is not dead, until it's dead.

The old man of sin is not the body, but the sinful life with the body, where the flesh is lusted and walked after, rather than the Spirit.

Still, "profits nothing" does mean nothing in reference to itself.

Yes, it is nothing in itself, like dust and grass. It doesn't mean we don't care for the flesh, nor can suffer by it, but it has no profit in being saved, justified, and having fellowship in Christ.

Other than still being in naturally mortal bodies.

And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.

Therefore, what is actually being said, is that it is not the flesh that receives the profit, but the spirit.

This is nice twist, but still a twist.

The flesh doesn't know anything of itself, even when resurrected immortally. It receives immortality, but only the soul knows it.

The body doesn't know anything of itself. It's just a body, like a tree trunk, but a living one animated by soul and spirit. Trees don't have spirits, no matter what the pagan tree huggers think.

 

[robert derrick]

Good--this is a start on fully understanding that the flesh and all of creation are only made in "image".

Sorry no. The body is natural flesh and blood on earth. The image of the body is the image of man, that is seen by the body as different from all other creatures on earth.

The body is not the image of God, but the Son came in the image of man, in the flesh of man by a woman.

Even so, the word from God is that the sons of Adam (of his kind) are not born out of the "very good" creation of God, but born out of the "fall", meaning conceived and born out of sin.

Christ still creates every soul and fashions every body, but now in the womb of a woman.

And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.

Even Eve knows that much.

And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

Man's image formed by Christ, is that of man on earth, as distinct from that of whales.

Man bears offspring with image of man, and whales bear offspring with image of whales, and Christ forms both.

It has nothing to do with the spiritual image of God, that men's souls are created with.

As it is written, "of your father the devil."

That is after the sinning, of course. All men make themselves children of the devil, by doing the deeds of the devil, rather than righteousness of God.

Saying the heritage of the Lord, and His reward from the womb, is of the devil, is just another lie of the devil against God. It's the same lie, that says it's God's fault men sin, because He makes us as sinners from the womb.

The devil neither creates nor makes anything, but a lie and liars.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Christ is still the only Maker there is.

I've given you this enough times, and you've never challenged these Scriptures, nor the sense of them I've given.

But do not consider that "cleansing" of the flesh actually means salvation or glorification of the flesh-

Never said so. The question is what cleansing the flesh means, if the flesh is 'made of sin', as some say.

leaving no flesh to inherit the kingdom of God.

Incorrect quote. No flesh and blood inherits the kingdom of God. That is living flesh on earth.

Dead flesh in the dust, which has no blood, is made immortal at the resurrection of the dead. And it's not the immortal body inheriting the kingdom of God, but the soul of the righteous with immortal body.

Thus, water baptism is only to repentance, while only baptism with the Holy Spirit is unto everlasting life. Raised up in the spirit, means raised up in the spirit--not the flesh.

True. Our bodies are not now raised up in Christ, but our souls from the death of sins and trespasses.

The dead bodies do not rise in the resurrection, until the Lord comes again. His dead body is, so far, the only one of man resurrected unto everlasting life.

You need to address the fact that our forerunner is resurrected with His old dead body from the tomb.