Willful Sin is simply premeditated

[robert derrick]

Willfully sinning is simple: they will do it.

It's premeditated and planned, just like any sinner planning on getting drunk, or thieving, or fornicating, or murdering...

Christians who do so, have departed Christ and His commandment. They can still confess and repent afterward, if the Advocate for the world draws them.

Like the mad prophet, that wouldn't even listen to a donkey warning him not to, and was blind to the Lord with drawn sword.

Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.

But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

Willful sinning is presumptive sinning, that mocks God's law and longsuffering mercy.

Joab did so in the murder of Abner, where he enticed him to foolishly walk outside the gate of the city of mercy.

 

[Patrick1966]

They also despise the Spirit of grace

 

[robert derrick]

The doctrine of being already forgiven for past and future sins, simply teaches willful sinning to Christians. Those who act upon it willingly, are willful sinners planning on sinning again. It's only a matter of when, not if.

The self-justifiers limit it to only time to time, so as to appear to themselves, to be 'resisting' temptation some of the time, just not all.

There remains no more sacrifice of the Lamb, for them willfully sinning with preplanned intent, because they don't want the blood of Jesus washing them from doing it.

They also despise the Spirit of grace, because they don't want any help from the grace of God not to do it.

Willful sinning of the world is simply preplanned and condemned. Wilfully sinning by Christians, is simply preplanned and unjustified. Wilfully sinning by Christians with doctrinal cover, is simply preplanned and preforgiven.

 

[Gilligan]

Willfully sinning is simple: they will do it.

It's premeditated and planned, just like any sinner planning on getting drunk, or thieving, or fornicating, or murdering...

Christians who do so, have departed Christ and His commandment. They can still confess and repent afterward, if the Advocate for the world draws them.

Like the mad prophet, that wouldn't even listen to a donkey warning him not to, and was blind to the Lord with drawn sword.

Sounds simple enough to me and makes perfect sense. I love it when debates are ended by one simple point.

I've found many people prefer the complicated and complex, because they love arguing more than having true answers.

Way to go. Willful sinning is sinning by those that will do it, no matter what.

So then, the non-willful sinning must have to do with unexpected temptation. It isn't overcome quickly enough? Like being cut off on the road, scared of wrecking, and cursing the situation, other driver, or even God Himself? Maybe stubbing a toe at night?

We settle down, ask Jesus to forgive us, try to learn a lesson and move on. Willful sinning is doing as the world does it. "Boy, I'm gonna get drunk tonight!"

 

[Gilligan]

View attachment 31436

What's this supposed to mean? There's no such thing as despising the Spirit of grace or something?

 

[Behold]

Willfully sinning is simple: they will do it.

If a person says their sin is "unintentional or accidental" , then :

1.) its not a sin

2.) they are lying and knew it was a sin, and now they just lied on a public forum. and probably will again.


Bottom line?

"Jesus....The one time ETERNAL sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross" has already paid for all the sin of the Born again."" and of the world... 2000 yrs ago.

The eternal issue isn't sin.....
The eternal issue is UNBELIEF and never being born again.

Jesus said..."you must be born again".........and you can't be born again in Hell.

 

[WPM]

Willfully sinning is simple: they will do it.

It's premeditated and planned, just like any sinner planning on getting drunk, or thieving, or fornicating, or murdering...

Christians who do so, have departed Christ and His commandment. They can still confess and repent afterward, if the Advocate for the world draws them.

Like the mad prophet, that wouldn't even listen to a donkey warning him not to, and was blind to the Lord with drawn sword.

This false teaching is not an end-time issue. It should not be discussed here.

Notwithstanding, Jesus says in John 10:26-29, rebuking the false professors, "ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."

The questions is:

Is your confidence built upon Him, His Word and what He has done for you or is it built upon you, what you have done for Him, and your ability to save yourself?
Who keeps us, God or ourselves?
Is it your grip on Him that you are putting your hope in or His grip on you?

Jesus said in Matthew 7:24-27

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Sand is not a good foundation. So the man described in this parable is crazy if he thinks his building is going to survive. I believe the Rock here represents Christ, and the sand represents self. The choice for every human is either self or Christ. My problem with your doctrine is that it causes men to put their confidence in themselves, what they have supposedly done for Him and in them keeping themselves.

NKJV says of 1 Corinthians 3:11, “For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.”

The crucial question for man is: Is your faith truly built upon a Rock or is it built upon sand?

· A house properly built upon the Rock stands firm in the midst of adversity.
· The house built upon the sand falls apart.

Christ wants to be your security.
Christ wants to be your strength.
Christ wants to be the source of your happiness.
Christ wants to be your direction.
Christ wants to be your hope.
Christ wants to be your future.

If Christ is not your foundation you will be constantly defeated, discouraged, deflated and depressed. God is looking us to be dependent upon Him and His commands: our flesh wants to operate independent of God and His commands. Remember sin is basically living a life independent from God. It is doing your own thing. Which describes you? If your foundation is not Christ you have built your life upon sand, and one day you are going to see how foolish you are. But it will be too late!

 

[robert derrick]

If a person says their sin is "unintentional or accidental" , then :

1.) its not a sin

2.) they are lying and knew it was a sin, and now they just lied on a public forum. and probably will again.

While technically I agree that we cannot sin 'accidentally', as though against out own will, However I disagree with your definition of wilful sin, as though all sinning is premeditated and planned.

Willful sin has no sacrifice nor washing of blood even before the act, because of the lust of the heart to do it, is already judged by God as doing it.

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Willful sinning is lusting to do a work of the flesh, until it is done.

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:

I agree with Gilligan, that sinning by reaction is not by premeditated lusting.

Bottom line?

"Jesus....The one time ETERNAL sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross" has already paid for all the sin of the Born again."" and of the world... 2000 yrs ago.

This is the source error for the heresy of already forgiven of all sinning present and future. This of course teaches Christians to willfully sin by the lie of 'preforgiveness'.

But they only do so now from time to time, rather than all the time as before, so as to 'appear' like they're not making God and taking forgiveness for granted.

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

The eternal issue isn't sin.....

True. Death of the soul by sinning, is the eternal punishment.

Sinning is but for a moment, but sinning unto death is forever.

If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

This includes the unrepentant in this life, such as King Saul, whom God told Samuel not to pray for anymore. It also includes not praying for them, that have died in their sins, as in purgatory.

The eternal issue is UNBELIEF and never being born again.

True. All them wilfully sinning have no sacrifice for sin, are not washed in the blood, and are not born again.

Jesus said..."you must be born again".........and you can't be born again in Hell.

True. Wilfully sinning at anytime is unforgiven, but can be forgiven. However, willfully sinning unto death is unforgivable.

Will wonders never cease. We actually agree on something. Amen and Praise God.

 

[Gilligan]

If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

This includes the unrepentant in this life, such as King Saul, whom God told Samuel not to pray for anymore. It also includes not praying for them, that have died in their sins, as in purgatory.

Then wouldn't wilfully sinning apply to sinning unto death? Since someone is already condemned as sinning by lusting and planning to do a transgression of the law, then they are actually sinning unto the death of the soul, that comes by completing the act. Isn't this what James is talking about?

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Lusting unto sinning, is sinning unto death. Both the lusting and the sinning is wilfully planned and committed. You can't 'pray' someone out of that.

 

[robert derrick]

This false teaching is not an end-time issue. It should not be discussed here.

True. I saw the mistake after posting it. But alas, what's done is done.

I'm sure you can contact the moderators and ask it to be moved.

Notwithstanding, Jesus says in John 10:26-29, rebuking the false professors, "ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."

The questions is:

Is your confidence built upon Him, His Word and what He has done for you or is it built upon you, what you have done for Him, and your ability to save yourself?
Who keeps us, God or ourselves?
Is it your grip on Him that you are putting your hope in or His grip on you?

Jesus said in Matthew 7:24-27

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Sand is not a good foundation. So the man described in this parable is crazy if he thinks his building is going to survive. I believe the Rock here represents Christ, and the sand represents self. The choice for every human is either self or Christ. My problem with your doctrine is that it causes men to put their confidence in themselves, what they have supposedly done for Him and in them keeping themselves.

NKJV says of 1 Corinthians 3:11, “For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.”

The crucial question for man is: Is your faith truly built upon a Rock or is it built upon sand?

· A house properly built upon the Rock stands firm in the midst of adversity.
· The house built upon the sand falls apart.

Christ wants to be your security.
Christ wants to be your strength.
Christ wants to be the source of your happiness.
Christ wants to be your direction.
Christ wants to be your hope.
Christ wants to be your future.

If Christ is not your foundation you will be constantly defeated, discouraged, deflated and depressed. God is looking us to be dependent upon Him and His commands: our flesh wants to operate independent of God and His commands. Remember sin is basically living a life independent from God. It is doing your own thing. Which describes you? If your foundation is not Christ you have built your life upon sand, and one day you are going to see how foolish you are. But it will be too late!

Nice speech I'm sure. But if you want to address the topic at hand, then I'd be glad to see it.

However, you do once again show your spirit-only millennium teaching, is for the sole purpose of already reigning forever by OSAS.

Someone recently posted a thread on the difference between being saved by grace, and being resurrected unto life by reward. I completely agree with it.

And it teaches me a lesson not to waste time endlessly arguing over being saved with or without works. You say you are saved by your own faith alone, then that's fine by me. You're saved. However, no one is going to resurrect themselves unto everlasting life by their faith alone.

That is only inherited by reward of the good works done in this life, after being saved. Being saved is just the starting point. Doing good at the end, is what is rewarded at the resurrection of the dead.

So, you best get cracking and doing righteousness more and more, and making less and less pretty speeches about your faith alone salvation.

We can tell people we're saved a thousand times, but we will never be able to tell anyone we're resurrected unto life, without the good works of salvation.

Faith with works justifies Christ raising us from the dead unto everlasting life in heaven and on the new earth.

Otherwise, the dead without works, will be resurrected with the rest of the dead doing evil works, unto eternal shame and condemnation.

 

[robert derrick]

Then wouldn't wilfully sinning apply to sinning unto death? Since someone is already condemned as sinning by lusting and planning to do a transgression of the law, then they are actually sinning unto the death of the soul, that comes by completing the act. Isn't this what James is talking about?

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Lusting unto sinning, is sinning unto death. Both the lusting and the sinning is wilfully planned and committed. You can't 'pray' someone out of that.

You know what. You beat me to it. Nice job. I am persuaded.

 

[mailmandan]

In Hebrews 10:26, we find the term "sin willfully" which carries the idea of deliberate intention which is habitual and stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows willful, continuous action. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God. (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9)

Those who teach sinless perfection are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

 

[robert derrick]

In Hebrews 10:26, we find the term "sin willfully" which carries the idea of deliberate intention which is habitual and stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice.

It only takes one act of willful fornication to be a willful fornicator.

Those who teach sinless perfection are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

Do you believe by the power of God and divine nature given us, that you can live righteously and walk as Jesus walked daily in this life?

 

[Gospel Believer]

The doctrine of being already forgiven for past and future sins, simply teaches willful sinning to Christians. Those who act upon it willingly, are willful sinners planning on sinning again. It's only a matter of when, not if.

The self-justifiers limit it to only time to time, so as to appear to themselves, to be 'resisting' temptation some of the time, just not all.

There remains no more sacrifice of the Lamb, for them willfully sinning with preplanned intent, because they don't want the blood of Jesus washing them from doing it.

They also despise the Spirit of grace, because they don't want any help from the grace of God not to do it.

Willful sinning of the world is simply preplanned and condemned. Wilfully sinning by Christians, is simply preplanned and unjustified. Wilfully sinning by Christians with doctrinal cover, is simply preplanned and preforgiven.

Just about ALL sin is “ willful”.....
Or are you making the claim that when YOU sin it’s an accident? Yeah, right......

 

[mailmandan]

It only takes one act of willful fornication to be a willful fornicator.

Do you believe by the power of God and divine nature given us, that you can live righteously and walk as Jesus walked daily in this life?

So anything short of sinless perfection from initial conversion to physical death for Christians means they have willfully sinned based on Hebrews 10:26 (according to you) and do not live righteously, are not righteous, and do not walk as Jesus walked at all? Is that your conclusion? So only Christians who live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) will be saved according to you? Do you believe that describes you?

 

[robert derrick]

Just about ALL sin is “ willful”.....
Or are you making the claim that when YOU sin it’s an accident? Yeah, right......

Since you're not addressing the specific points made, then your argument is for yourself, not me.

 

[Gospel Believer]

Since you're not addressing the specific points made, then your argument is for yourself, not me.

nice “ dodge” .....

 

[marks]

So then, the non-willful sinning must have to do with unexpected temptation. It isn't overcome quickly enough? Like being cut off on the road, scared of wrecking, and cursing the situation, other driver, or even God Himself? Maybe stubbing a toe at night?

This whole idea of "willful" and "unwilling" sin, I don't get it. As a Christian, when are you not able to not sin? Even when something sudden happens, you don't have to react from flesh, do you?

I mean, we do choose what comes out of our mouths, don't we? For instance?

God promised to make a way out of every temptation, so I'm thinking that we are never committing an "unwilling" sin.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Willfully sinning is simple: they will do it.

Yep! Every time you commit a sin, it's because you either chose to do it, or failed to choose to not do it, however you want to say it.

What sin do you commit that is unwillful?

Much love!

 

[robert derrick]

So anything short of sinless perfection from initial conversion to physical death for Christians means they have willfully sinned based on Hebrews 10:26 (according to you) and do not live righteously, are not righteous, and do not walk as Jesus walked at all? Is that your conclusion?

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

So only Christians who live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) will be saved according to you? Do you believe that describes you?

And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell. And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.

The endless debate about faith alone vs faith with works, is over.

You don't believe we can all live righteously in Him and walk as He walked as a man on earth. You don't believe unto righteousness.

If you ever do believe unto righteousness from the heart, then Jesus will gladly give you His divine power and nature to help you to do His righteousness by grace.

Until then, you are welcome to your own faith alone, and the gospel of unrighteous, imperfect, flawed, sinning Christian living, that comes with it.

It doesn't matter to me one bit. Have at it unto death for all I care. It's your soul, not mine.