Without unconditional Election,no one would be saved.

[Mjh29]

Did you choose God? (is that how you know you are saved?)

Well, no. God changes our hearts, and makes us willing to choose Him, but we would never do so on our own. And our choice could never save us, because it was all from God.

Only God's grace, only Christ's blood can save us. Do you see how fallen Arminianism is, that no matter what you say in response, when push comes to shove you ultimately lean on your own doings for salvation. This is why I say Arminians are boarderline Christians. I have known a few that are Christians, who believe that they are saved by Christ's blood alone, and cling to His work on the cross, and have no problem calling them Christians. But those who say things like "I am saved by choosing God, and that is why I am going to Heaven" that I cannot in good conscious tell them that they are indeed Christians. They have taken a gospel that was meant to be about Jesus, and turned it into a gospel about patting themselves on the back because they were smart, and did the right thing.

 

[Mjh29]

So at the instigation of God you did choose Him? Or are you saying your choosing Him was impossible, even with His help? If you didn't choose God, then my question stands. How do you know you are saved? How do you, SovereignGrace, know personally that you, as an individual, are a part of that elect chosen group destined for glory? You base you theology and hope in the scriptures, that there is a preordained group destined for salvation...but now where in scripture do I find your name. So on what is your personal hope resting on?

1.) Our hearts and minds need changed before we can do any "accepting" God first works His work of grace on our hearts, changing us on the inside so that our hearts of stone are replaced with a heart of flesh, and we want to serve Him. He then changes our wills, making us want to choose to follow Him. He gives us the gift of faith, which translates into the gift of accepting and believing. So we are saved by God's gifts; each conversion is like a metaphorical spiritual Birthday party; the Father supplies all the gifts.

2.) Our personal hope rests where yours should; in the arms of Jesus, who is the author and finisher of our faith. It is questions like these that caused Jesus to ask "Where is your faith?" We know that we are saved, because Christ told us that if we have believed on Him, we shall be saved. He knew for certain that each and every person that God ever predestined to be Christ's would indeed be His, so the people could take heart. So when Jesus commands people to believe, and to repent, He knew that the called of God would undoubtedly respond, so He could tell them to take heart. As for us personally, we take heart in this same promise; that Christ can and will save His people, and that His promises are sure.
Nothing in our hands we bring, simply to the Cross we cling. Not our own works, not our 'choice'. The Cross and Blood of Jesus is our hope, and when the Spirit of God is living inside you, that is all the 'proof' you need.

 

[SovereignGrace]

So at the instigation of God you did choose Him? Or are you saying your choosing Him was impossible, even with His help? If you didn't choose God, then my question stands. How do you know you are saved? How do you, SovereignGrace, know personally that you, as an individual, are a part of that elect chosen group destined for glory? You base you theology and hope in the scriptures, that there is a preordained group destined for salvation...but now where in scripture do I find your name. So on what is your personal hope resting on?

If God had not chosen me, I would not have chosen Him. I can’t make it any clearer than that.

 

[Grams]

Eph. 2:

8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9
Not of works, lest any man should boast

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

For any readers that do not fully understand or are not overly familiar with the original beliefs of Calvinists, here they are as recorded in the Remonstrance which held Calvin's views as a new theology. The following are what the Dutch presenters of 'Remonstrance' considered to be the most extreme points as expounded in Calvin's Catechism and the Belgium Confession.

1. That God (as some asserted) had ordered by an eternal and irreversible decree, some from among men (whom He did not consider as created; much less as fallen) to everlasting life; and some (who were by far the greater part) to everlasting perdition without any regard to their obedience or disobedience, in order to exert both His justice and mercy; having so disposed the means, that those whom He had appointed to salvation should be necessarily and unavoidably saved, and the rest necessarily and unavoidably damned.

2. That God (as others taught) had considered mankind not only as created but as fallen in Adam, and consequently as liable to the curse; from which fall and destruction He had determined to release some, and to save them as instances of His mercy; and to leave others, even children of the Covenant, under the curse as examples of His justice, without any regard to belief or unbelief. To which end God also made use of means whereby the elect were necessarily saved and the reprobate were necessarily damned.

3. That, consequently, Jesus Christ the Saviour of the World did not die for all men, but only for those who were elected according to the first or second manner.

4. That therefore the Spirit of God and Christ wrought in the elect by an irresistible force in order to make them believe and be saved, but that necessary and sufficient grace was not given to the reprobate.

5. That they who had once received a true faith could never lose it wholly or finally.

I find some of the above not only utterly repugnant when compared to the revealed character of God in scripture, but wholly unbiblical and contrary to the character of God as revealed in the life of Christ.

My friend, what is it exactly about the fall is Adam that you fail to understand.
Adam and His posterity died that day, at that point in time.
Rom3:23.
He was not wounded by died spiritually. Man needs a new heart that only God can give to be able to fellowship with the true and living GOD.
Consider The statement without your mistaken comments added, or if you want.read the 1689 Confession of faith,and explain once again how you find the purpose of God repugnant.

 

[justbyfaith]

Did you choose God? (is that how you know you are saved?)

Well, no.

So you did not choose God? How do you know whether you are saved? Can a person be saved apart from choosing God, is the question that I have for you.

We know that we are saved, because Christ told us that if we have believed on Him, we shall be saved.

So your assurance is based on the understanding that you have believed, and that God has saved you because of your belief.

This shows that faith/believing is the catalyst for our being saved.

If you were to say, "I did not choose God, but I know that I am saved anyway," then there is no basis for your salvation other than the predetermined choice of God. God would have simply had to say to you one day, "I am making you one of my elect (even apart from faith)."

And if it is apart from faith that we are saved, then some of the most basic verses of scripture (in Christianity 101) are tossed out the window.

Also, it would make God's decision to place people in the lake of fire an arbitrary one. He would be condemning them on a whim; not because they didn't believe, but because He didn't choose them and make them believe.

I believe the scripture teaches us that faith is the catalyst for salvation in everyone who is saved; and this means that faith comes before grace. We have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand. The faith may be given as a gift of grace; however the grace of being saved is not given until after a person places their faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[Mjh29]

So you did not choose God? How do you know whether you are saved? Can a person be saved apart from choosing God, is the question that I have for you.

A person is saved because God choose to change their hearts, not because they chose to. I am saved by Gods grace completely, not by anything in me that I did or chose. God granted me faith, and granted me other graces, and this is why I am saved. But no, I am not saved because I did anything or made some fictional quota.

So your assurance is based on the understanding that you have believed, and that God has saved you because of your belief.

This shows that faith/believing is the catalyst for our being saved.

No, my assurance is in the fact that God has given me belief. Belief comes from outside of me; it comes from God as a gracious gift. Faith is nothing more than a tool God chooses to grace us with in the first place. God has saved me because it pleased Him to do so, and because He wanted to. Not because of anything from or in me.

I believe the scripture teaches us that faith is the catalyst for salvation in everyone who is saved; and this means that faith comes before grace.

If you were to say, "I did not choose God, but I know that I am saved anyway," then there is no basis for your salvation other than the predetermined choice of God. God would have simply had to say to you one day, "I am making you one of my elect (even apart from faith)."

I'm sorry, but this is just not true. You were doing so well, up until that little blip you added in parenthesis; God chooses to use the tool of faith, which He gives to some. I do not deny faith; here is the difference:

You ~ Faith is what saves us, and it is something I must attain in and of myself, and then use to get saved

Calvinists ~ Grace is what saves me; God gives me faith by His grace, and also gives me a new heart that is willing to serve and honor Him. With these graces, man is able to accept the gift of Salvation and be saved.

The difference is where we believe these things come from; their origin. You claim that it is from man and man alone, which is works righteousness. We believe that is is from God and God alone, and thus actual grace, not merited favor.

Again, I do not say that election happens apart from faith, I am saying that faith is a grace of God, and election does not happen because of faith.

I believe the scripture teaches us that faith is the catalyst for salvation in everyone who is saved; and this means that faith comes before grace.

[bold and italics added]

If faith comes before grace, it comes all from you. If you earned grace because of your faith, that is called works righteousness. So you believe in works righteousness?

 

[Enoch111]

If faith comes before grace, it comes all from you. If you earned grace because of your faith, that is called works righteousness. So you believe in works righteousness?

These comments are similar to Fake News. More Calvinistic NONSENSE.

1. Faith comes from the Gospel and the work of the Holy Spirit.

2. No one earns grace. By definition it is unmerited and unearned.

3. No one earns salvation by any works. Eternal life is a GIFT of God.

These are all straw man arguments from people who have no clue about the power of the Gospel.

 

[justbyfaith]

But no, I am not saved because I did anything or made some fictional quota.

If you are saved at all, it is because you called on the name of the Lord at some point (Romans 10:13).

Belief comes from outside of me; it comes from God as a gracious gift.

Indeed; faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of the Lord, Romans 10:17.

You ~ Faith is what saves us, and it is something I must attain in and of myself, and then use to get saved

Calvinists ~ Grace is what saves me; God gives me faith by His grace, and also gives me a new heart that is willing to serve and honor Him. With these graces, man is able to accept the gift of Salvation and be saved.

Me~ I receive faith as the result of the preaching of the gospel. My response to the preaching of the gospel message is either faith or unbelief. If a man rejects the gospel message, he is not saved. But if he receives Christ into his heart (John 1:12), calling upon and believing on His name, he will be saved.

Calvinists~ god arbitrarily chooses who will be saved and who will be damned, the damned are damned no matter what they try to do to be saved and no matter how they respond to the gospel message. Those who are saved can praise the Lord for ever that they were chosen and others were damned through the whim and will of God.

The difference is where we believe these things come from; their origin. You claim that it is from man and man alone, which is works righteousness. We believe that is is from God and God alone, and thus actual grace, not merited favor.

Again, faith is not a work, according to a closer look at Ephesians 2:8-9. Yes, faith comes from God; the Lord instills it within us through the preaching of the gospel message. Our response to that message, however, is not forced upon us by the Lord; we have a choice in the matter of whether we will receive or reject that message. Our choice to receive is not virtue; it may in fact be based on entirely selfish motives. But the Lord honours faith; and if the faith itself be impure, the Lord is able to cleanse it at the altar: He is able to consecrate the offering of faith by applying the blood to a faith that is even imperfect and based in selfishness.

If faith comes before grace, it comes all from you. If you earned grace because of your faith, that is called works righteousness. So you believe in works righteousness?

Faith does indeed come before grace. Romans 5:1-2 is clear that as believers, we have gained access to our mansion by using a key that was given to us. If we are currently living in our mansion, there was a time that we did not have access into it, and gained access to it through our faith. We were born dead in trespasses and sins. So we were not always living in our mansion, we had to gain access to it somehow when we still didn't believe. And that access came when, in a sovereign act of grace (not the grace of salvation) the Lord gave us faith, by which we gained access to the grace of salvation.

This faith did not come from me; but I did receive it. Jesus handed me a key; and I used it to gain access to my mansion.

I also had the option of not receiving the key from Jesus when He offered it to me.

I believe that scripture teaches that Jesus offers the key to everyone in some way, shape, or form at some point in their lives; while some receive, and others reject.

 

[farouk]

If you are saved at all, it is because you called on the name of the Lord at some point (Romans 10:13).



Indeed; faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of the Lord, Romans 10:17.

Good verses there; while God's sovereignty is a very important aspect of the Gospel, so is human responsibility.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Can't really do it on this gadget, but the definitions of pneuma and rhema are not like hard to access or anything. Dismiss anyone entirely who conflates them to you imo, they are antichrist when they do this

And it isn't like it is hard to detect, they will always either be misquoting Scripture, or Quoting it correctly and warping the interp, deflecting or disengaging when you make an obvious point that they have no reply to, bc of course they have never confessed anything in their lives, and when they do confess it comes out sounding like "I'm sorry you don't understand" lol. I was raised by these idiots, these are my parents, so pardon me if I have little patience for willingly blind and deaf calvinists, all looking for rewards for what they should have been doing anyway

So...you had godly parents who told you the truth, but you hate the truth so you make foolish posts with no content, is that the sum of this?

 

[justbyfaith]

Good verses there; while God's sovereignty is a very important aspect of the Gospel, so is human responsibility.

Yes, @farouk, I believe that both the sovereignty of the Lord and the responsibility of man are clearly taught by scripture.

 

[farouk]

Yes, @farouk, I believe that both the sovereignty of the Lord and the responsibility of man are clearly taught by scripture.

Exactly; keeping both balanced is good; both are very much Scriptural.

 

[justbyfaith]

they will always either be misquoting Scripture, or Quoting it correctly and warping the interp,

This is certain to happen if you are smoking marijuana on some occasions.

 

[bbyrd009]

So...you had godly parents who told you the truth, but you hate the truth so you make foolish posts with no content, is that the sum of this?

ah ty, meant to apologize for that one

 

[justbyfaith]

Exactly; keeping both balanced is good; both are very much Scriptural.

And neither one cancels out the other.

 

[bbyrd009]

This is certain to happen if you are smoking marijuana on some occasions.

Look with your two eyes and see what is done to Eternal and Rapture and Word, I mean cmon you already know you are going to have to stop posting when you find a space of time, and age, no harpazo, and only Dabar YHWH right?

 

[farouk]

And neither one cancels out the other.

Yes, I agree. Mentioning wholly one or wholly another of these Biblical aspects all the time does not give the full picture. As we grow older, even as we keep our convictions, I'm sure some of us realize that Biblical truth is many faceted, and those many facets do not contradict each other.

 

[justbyfaith]

Look with your two eyes and see what is done to Eternal and Rapture and Word, I mean cmon you already know you are going to have to stop posting when you find a space of time, and age, no harpazo, and only Dabar YHWH right?

More gibberish.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes, I agree. Mentioning wholly one or wholly another of these Biblical aspects all the time does not give the full picture. As we grow older, even as we keep our convictions, I'm sure some of us realize that Biblical truth is many faceted, and those many facets do not contradict each other.

Amen.