1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Workers of the flesh will not inherit eternal life

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by 07-07-07, Mar 10, 2019.

  1. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,230
    Likes Received:
    7,247
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    They at the very least, I would say, types or shadows of the born again or born from above believers of today. They were clean until they defiled themselves by disobeying God.

    When a person truly repents and receives the Holy Spirit today, he is similar to Adam and Eve prior to their disobedience. He has something very good, but like them he still has not partaken of the Tree of Life... not until he has overcome as Jesus overcame.

    If we keep our eyes always on Him while loving always the Truth that He is, we will always avoid deception. How many of us are always doing those things?

    I should be slow call out a person's name or point a finger at him based on my own ideas or suspicions alone.

    You are likely correct on this, but since I don't know any such person definitely I stand back and simply wait on God. If He wants to use me with regard to such a person hopefully I will hear and obey when He speaks to me about it.

    This is probably true, but there are also cons [conmen] pretending many things in order to line their own pockets with the things of this world.
     
    Acolyte likes this.
  2. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,845
    Likes Received:
    889
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Where?
     
  3. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,990
    Likes Received:
    1,041
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    They predated anyone being born again. They predated sin nature until they. They predated knowledge of good and evil at the time.

    When born again we have the Holy Spirit, which includes the tree of life.

    I agree on avoiding deception.

    One should always be careful when dealing with others.

    This is the apostasy. More conmen than truth sharers. More deceived than truly enlightened.
     
  4. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,845
    Likes Received:
    889
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Your best bet is to treat everyone like they are a believer, taking into account what it says in the following:

    Heb 3:12, Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
    Heb 3:13, But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

    In exhorting someone as a believer, it should become evident if they are not; in which instance you can preach the gospel to them: that is, the basics of 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 and John 3:16 and Ephesians 2:8-9.
     
    Acolyte and amadeus like this.
  5. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,230
    Likes Received:
    7,247
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Yes, because until they disobeyed God they had Life even if it was not unending. The necessity to be "born again" was not there until people were dead.

    What is this sin nature of which you speak other than death? What people lacked until Jesus made it available was Life. Adam and Eve did have Life until they disobeyed God.

    The knowledge they had was a walk with God and they chose to disobey the only command recorded from Him to them. Perhaps it was simpler but the results of their disobedience/sin was the same as ours:

    "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Gen 2:17

    "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Rom 6:23

    Where does the scripture say that access to the Tree of Life comes when a person is born again or when he receives the Holy Spirit? What I read is this:

    "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God" Rev 2:7

    "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city" Rev 22:14

    What I understand is that to eat of the Tree of Life a person must be an overcomer. The Holy Spirit if received and followed makes it possible for us to become overcomers. Anyone who consistently and continuously quenches the Holy Spirit will not obey and will not be able to enter through the gates because he has not overcome.
    Indeed, as per:

    "Abstain from all appearance of evil." I Thess 5:22

    Yes

    Does the situation among those called Christians today remind us at all of the situation with the Jews 2000 years ago who supposed to be following the law given to them through Moses?
     
  6. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,990
    Likes Received:
    1,041
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Yes it does remind me of 2000 years ago and even earlier.

    Send nature to me is the inherited desire of the flesh to do things that cause spiritual death.

    We are born in such a way it doesn't take long to commit such a sin.

    Being innocent protects one from the consequences until they reach the age of consent. Then it all comes tumbling down on them. Meaning no one escapes it unless they repent.
     
    Acolyte and amadeus like this.
  7. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,230
    Likes Received:
    7,247
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    You and I likely disagree on some details, but I generally agree with what you say here.
     
    Acolyte and CoreIssue like this.
  8. 07-07-07

    07-07-07 Member

    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    25
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    One has backslidden. Fallen from grace into disgrace. A vessel of honor into dishonor. Most likely, the person hasn't been fasting and spending time in the Scriptures. In other words, the old man is resurfacing. Question is: was the old man ever really crucified to being with?
     
  9. 07-07-07

    07-07-07 Member

    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    25
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Brother James has your answer.

    James 1
    [12] Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.[13] Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:[14] But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.[15] Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
     
  10. 07-07-07

    07-07-07 Member

    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    25
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Question is: do you Scripturally understand the difference between the Spirit and the flesh? Simply being battled in your mind is called temptation and is not a work of the flesh. Temptation must be acted upon in order to become sin. And sin, when it is finished, brings forth death.
     
  11. 07-07-07

    07-07-07 Member

    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    25
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    You're falsely using the Scriptures. Falling is being knocked down by the hardships of life, not giving into sin.

    Psalms 34
    [19] Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the LORD delivereth him out of them all.[20] He keepeth all his bones: not one of them is broken.
     
  12. 07-07-07

    07-07-07 Member

    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    25
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Perfection and willfully sinning are at odds with one another. The Apostle Paul through the Holy Spirit clears states that "of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."
     
  13. 07-07-07

    07-07-07 Member

    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    25
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    The Bible says no such thing. It, however, says:

    1 James
    [15] Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
     
  14. H. Richard

    H. Richard Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,906
    Likes Received:
    608
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    It is a false message that says we no longer sin in the flesh because we have been saved. Being saved means we are no longer condemned by the sins our flesh commits. If, as some say, a child of God has been given the power to not sin in the flesh then it certainly is not shown in the world. The flesh will sin because it is still sinful.

    When Paul speaks of the things that condemn the flesh he is speaking of the unsaved. As we can see in Romans 7 the child of God has two natures, one of the sinful flesh and one a spiritual nature. It is the spiritual one that does not sin because it has been born of God. The spiritual one has had all sins paid for on the cross.

    The whole idea that God gives our flesh the power to not sin leaves it up to man to complete his/her salvation and is termed progressive salvation (self-righteousness). It ignores Jesus' work on the cross and puts the glory of salvation in the works of men and women who claim to not sin in the flesh any longer if they have enough will power.

    Make no mistake, the flesh will sin as long as it is alive.
     
  15. H. Richard

    H. Richard Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,906
    Likes Received:
    608
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I see you use the words of James to support your idea. Are you aware of James 1:1. His message is to the Jews only. If it isn't then the Holy Spirit missed putting the word Gentles in James 1:1. If you don't believe James 1: 1 then why do you believe the verse you quoted?

    Yes, sin brings forth death to the flesh. But those """IN CHRIST""" are sinless in their spirit because Jesus paid for their sins on the cross.
     
  16. H. Richard

    H. Richard Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,906
    Likes Received:
    608
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States

    The scriptures tell us that flesh and blood will not enter Heaven. That includes the flesh and blood bodies of the child of God. Same thing.
     
    "ByGrace" likes this.
  17. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,140
    Likes Received:
    3,809
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    Quite the scheme you have there. This is the false gospel of course. Salvation for the flesh. And who decides who is part of this lawless scheme. Why the person who believes in self-justification...that's who.

    As in...I'm not responsible for what I do. It's that pesky flesh YOU created. So really it's not my fault.

    But the truth is that WE will be judged for every thought, word and deed done in the flesh.
     
  18. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,140
    Likes Received:
    3,809
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    This is why we are called to the death of Jesus....to His cross. The POWER of the flesh is dealt with by the power of God so we can live by grace....in HIS life and walk.
     
  19. H. Richard

    H. Richard Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,906
    Likes Received:
    608
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States

    So your HOPE is in what you do. Mine is in the work that Jesus did on the cross where He paid for all my sins. His is a free gift of salvation to all if they just believe it.
     
    "ByGrace" likes this.
  20. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,990
    Likes Received:
    1,041
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    The Bible makes it quite clear while our spirits are clean sin nature our flesh is not. Thus the war of the old nature's, flesh versus spirit.

    Sanctification is not an instant event, it is a lifetime struggle.

    1 John 1:7-9
    7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
    8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
    9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
     
Loading...