Works Salvation is FALSE

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Michiah-Imla

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Works salvation is NO SALVATION AT ALL.

“Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:” (2 Peter 1:10)

You “doing” something is works.

Give diligence to do the these things:

“…add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.” (2 Peter 1:5-7)

Why?

“…for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall” (2 Peter 1:10)

But if you don’t do these “works” you may fall!

And if you fall:

“…it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.” (Hebrews 6:4-6)
 

360watt

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no offense but you most likely do ot even know what "eternal" means, if you think it means "forever"

yes, i read the brochure about fifty years ago hon, and you havent even started reading the Bible yet k
No son of man may die for another's sins...
There is only One Immortal...
All go to the same place
No one knows where they go when they die
Who seeks to save his soul
(that's you btw) will lose it
etc


but to the subject of the op--and my q--can you Quote this "salvation= immortality in heaven after you have died" even once?

I don't understand what you mean, sorry. The book of John is completely clear on belief on Jesus as God gives eternal salvation.

If the book of John isn't enough.. how about Romans 10? Or how about Job believing in a redeemer along with David? Or how about going back to Abraham who believed and was counted righteous.. before he offered up his son Isaac?
 

360watt

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Amen! Works salvation is NO SALVATION AT ALL. (Romans 4:2-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5)

I dunno, this seems bizarre.. I always thought works for salvation was clearly not Christian and clearly not supported in the Bible. Oh well.... seems unbridled Christianity is getting warped out of recognition recently. Anyway , hi on this site. I'm wattie on cc
 

Brakelite

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It's interesting, we see many such posts and threads concerning works salvation, yet I have never seen any suggestions from anyone that we are saved by our works?
 

Brakelite

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I think it is important to realize the the scripture says we are justified by faith in Christ's sacrifice. That justification avails for every single person on the planet, but not every single person avails themselves of the grace available, and can therefore be lost, so Christ's sacrifice, although sufficient for all, does not apply to all.
The next question arises, although we are saved by grace through faith, can we be saved without works?
 

Brakelite

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no offense but you most likely do ot even know what "eternal" means, if you think it means "forever"

yes, i read the brochure about fifty years ago hon, and you havent even started reading the Bible yet k
No son of man may die for another's sins...
There is only One Immortal...
All go to the same place
No one knows where they go when they die
Who seeks to save his soul
(that's you btw) will lose it
etc


but to the subject of the op--and my q--can you Quote this "salvation= immortality in heaven after you have died" even once?
KJV John 11:21-27
21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.
23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

KJV Hebrews 9:27
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

If Lazarus died, he only died once, and of he has since never died again, what does that suggest?
 

360watt

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It's interesting, we see many such posts and threads concerning works salvation, yet I have never seen any suggestions from anyone that we are saved by our works?

If you have to keep up a standard of behaviour.. for following God following being given salvation.. that is works based salvation. So though most won't say they do good works to get saved.. they say the same thing by saying they HAVE to do good works to KEEP saved.

This is all about the diety of Christ and His all sufficient atonement for sin. That's why works have zero to do with eternal salvation. Works are a voluntary response to having been given eternal life. Eternal life isn't a goal at the end of the line. It's a present possession for all who are saved.
 

ButterflyJones

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It's interesting, we see many such posts and threads concerning works salvation, yet I have never seen any suggestions from anyone that we are saved by our works?
Would saying we work towards salvation by doing works of righteousness qualify as someone having said we are saved by our works?
 

Grailhunter

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If you have to keep up a standard of behaviour.. for following God following being given salvation.. that is works based salvation. So though most won't say they do good works to get saved.. they say the same thing by saying they HAVE to do good works to KEEP saved.

This is all about the diety of Christ and His all sufficient atonement for sin. That's why works have zero to do with eternal salvation. Works are a voluntary response to having been given eternal life. Eternal life isn't a goal at the end of the line. It's a present possession for all who are saved.
This can be best described as wrong thinking.
Did Christ have to offer himself up for our sins to be the Son of God?
Did Christ have to do good for others to be the Messiah?
God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son....did He have to do that to be God?
No! They did that because it was the right thing to do.
Love God and love one another.....Christians help each other because it is the right thing to do.
Christians are not saved by Good Deeds, they do good because it is the right thing to do.
Christians are followers of Christ. He set the examples.
And Good Deeds are important in the application of Christianity in our lives.
It is obviously important to Christ that we help each other because as we see at the end of the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats He said to those that did not help each other.....Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. And these will not go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. Matthew 25:45-46 So in Christ's own words it is a fact that Good Deeds do not save you, but you can receive eternal punishment for not helping one another.

As far as moral behavior, again it is the right thing to do. We are saved by faith in Christ. We are not saved because we deserve it. We live moral lives because it it the right thing to do and we will be punished if we do not. You will find no scripture that says moral behavior is not required and dozens of scriptures that indicate that moral behavior is required and some indicate that no ifs ands or buts that if you are immoral you will not inherit the kingdom of God.
1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God”
Galatians 5:19-21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Your statement smacks of the OSAS crowd and is one of the worst false beliefs in Christianity.
And eternal life is the goal at the end of line.....nothing eternal about this life.
Be good and do good.
 
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360watt

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This can be best described as wrong thinking.
Did Christ have to offer himself up for our sins to be the Son of God?
Did Christ have to do good for others to be the Messiah?
God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son....did He have to do that to be God?
No! They did that because it was the right thing to do.
Love God and love one another.....Christians help each other because it is the right thing to do.
Christians are not saved by Good Deeds, they do good because it is the right thing to do.
Christians are followers of Christ. He set the examples.
And Good Deeds are important in the application of Christianity in our lives.
It is obviously important to Christ that we help each other because as we see at the end of the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats He said to those that did not help each other.....Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. And these will not go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. Matthew 25:45-46 So in Christ's own words it is a fact that Good Deeds do not save you, but you can receive eternal punishment for not helping one another.

As far as moral behavior, again it is the right thing to do. We are saved by faith in Christ. We are not saved because we deserve it. We live moral lives because it it the right thing to do and we will be punished if we do not. You will find no scripture that says moral behavior is not required and dozens of scriptures that indicate that moral behavior is required and some indicate that no ifs ands or buts that if you are immoral you will not inherit the kingdom of God.
1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God”
Galatians 5:19-21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Your statement smacks of the OSAS crowd and is one of the worst false beliefs in Christianity.
And eternal life is the goal at the end of line.....nothing eternal about this life.
Be good and do good.
Inheritance in the Kingdom is different to entrance. Inheritance is being given rewards at the end .. rewards for faithful service.


Entrance is John 3 and Romans 10.


You gotta put the likes of the book of John alongside warnings of discipline and rebuke for believers.

Your own parents don't leave you if you are rebellious... yet many of us say God will if we struggle with faith after salvation.


God's commitment to us is deeper than parents to a child... it's stronger than biological...it's spiritual.


Anyway... I'm not gonna go into debating this again. It's been thrashed.. camp's on both sides don't tend to change their thinking. Especially in online forums.

The main thing tho is Jesus' all sufficient sacrifice and diety.


Blessings


Sayonara
 

Brakelite

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If you have to keep up a standard of behaviour.. for following God following being given salvation..
Many Christians would like to lower God's standards in order to meet their own expectations... But here you are wanting to do away with standards altogether... Go you.
So though most won't say they do good works to get saved.. they say the same thing by saying they HAVE to do good works to KEEP saved
Yeah. There are some who do that. Like Jesus for example. When was the last time you read the parable of the sheep and goats?
Inheritance in the Kingdom is different to entrance. Inheritance is being given rewards at the end .. rewards for faithful service.


Entrance is John 3 and Romans 10.


You gotta put the likes of the book of John alongside warnings of discipline and rebuke for believers.

Your own parents don't leave you if you are rebellious... yet many of us say God will if we struggle with faith after salvation.


God's commitment to us is deeper than parents to a child... it's stronger than biological...it's spiritual.


Anyway... I'm not gonna go into debating this again. It's been thrashed.. camp's on both sides don't tend to change their thinking. Especially in online forums.

The main thing tho is Jesus' all sufficient sacrifice and diety.


Blessings


Sayonara
Oh, so Grailhunter beat me to it. Go GH. You need to read the parable again... And while you're there, read the one about the man at the wedding feast who didn't have the right wedding garment. Now if you're happy to go through life doing nothing for fear of God thinking you are working your way to heaven, fine. But God would then a question as to why would you think God would condemn you for doing what's right?
But if you do good works because you love Him, then motive is pure. Thing is this thread is all about judging other people's motives. Oh, you are doing good works... You are obeying good commandments... You are loving your neighbor... You are kind and generous and forgiving and unselfish... The question is, are those things essential for entering in through the pearly gates? I would suggest yes, and I wouldn't want to be you to test it otherwise. I mean, what kind of character do you think is acceptable to keep company with holy beings?
 
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360watt

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Many Christians would like to lower God's standards in order to meet their own expectations... But here you are wanting to do away with standards altogether... Go you.

Yeah. There are some who do that. Like Jesus for example. When was the last time you read the parable of the sheep and goats?

Oh, so Grailhunter beat me to it. Go GH. You need to read the parable again... And while you're there, read the one about the man at the wedding feast who didn't have the right wedding garment. Now if you're happy to go through life doing nothing for fear of God thinking you are working your way to heaven, fine. But good would them question as to why would you think God would condemn you for doing what's right?
But if you do good works because you love Him, then motive is pure. Thing is this thread is all about judging other people's motives. Oh, you are doing good works... You are obeying good commandments... You are loving your neighbor... You are kind and generous and forgiving and unselfish... The question is, are those things essential for entering in through the pearly gates? I would suggest yes, and I wouldn't want to be you to test it otherwise. I mean, what kind of character do you think is acceptable to keep company with holy beings?
But christians fail in loving their neighbour, being kind and generous.. being forgiving and selfish. They aim to do these things of course, but never get it 100 percent right. That's why following commands aren't the way of salvation.. but by grace through faith in Jesus alone. Without Jesus covering our falling when we try to do the commands.. we would all.. every christian be doomed.

We sin all the time.. if not intentionally.. unintentionally.

God of course wants us to follow His commands and we are blessed when we are faithful. But we all falter.
 

Grailhunter

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Inheritance in the Kingdom is different to entrance.
Heaven has a backdoor?
Inheritance is being given rewards at the end
Never planned on going to heaven before I died.
You gotta put the likes of the book of John alongside warnings of discipline and rebuke for believers.

Your own parents don't leave you if you are rebellious... yet many of us say God will if we struggle with faith after salvation.


God's commitment to us is deeper than parents to a child... it's stronger than biological...it's spiritual.
Your parents may spank you.....Christ has the option of eternal fiery punishment.
 

Michiah-Imla

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Eternal salvation is thru believing Jesus is God..

I asked you where that scripture was and you replied:

John 3:16, 5:24, 3:36

And here are those passages:

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16)

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.” (John 5:24)

“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” (John 3:36)

:IDK:

Are you playing mind games with me?

Romans 10

To long to post but nothing in Romans 10 proves your assertion.

There is much more verses

You haven’t even gotten started.

Go and find some more…

:hmhehm
 

mailmandan

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I dunno, this seems bizarre.. I always thought works for salvation was clearly not Christian and clearly not supported in the Bible. Oh well.... seems unbridled Christianity is getting warped out of recognition recently. Anyway , hi on this site. I'm wattie on cc
Hi wattie. I do remember you from CC. :) You may recognize a few other avatar names on here from CC.
 

Michiah-Imla

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A lost person is filthy in God's eyes.

Who’s arguing otherwise?

Thinking good works will get you to heaven is like putting perfume in a corpse.

Sure, if that person hasn’t been born again in holiness through Jesus Christ.

Because once you’re born again:

“…we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.” (Ephesians 2:10)

These good works are pleasing to God.
 

bbyrd009

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The book of John is completely clear on belief on Jesus as God gives eternal salvation.
"aion; a space of time, an age" is where your "eternal" comes from tho see. Not "aidios," which means "forever"
If the book of John isn't enough.. how about Romans 10? Or how about Job believing in a redeemer along with David? Or how about going back to Abraham who believed and was counted righteous.. before he offered up his son Isaac?
ha well im not saying to not hope for salvation, i hope you understand; ive been saved more times than i could count :)
 

bbyrd009

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KJV John 11:21-27
21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.
23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

KJV Hebrews 9:27
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

If Lazarus died, he only died once, and of he has since never died again, what does that suggest?
well, right now you believe that Lazarus was a literal person, when he is almost surely an allegory for Israel or Hebrews or something. Lazarus is the Greek for "Eleazer"

and as for the rest, above, wasnt your baptism supposed to be a ritual "death?"
"Buried with Him in death, raised to new life in Him"